Clocked Car Passat TDI 2005

jony1983ie

Hi,

Well as you may have read I bought a new Passat TDI (130) sport highline. 2004.

It was sold to me eng reg in Dublin (I live in the north).
It had a MOT sticker but not Tax disk and no service history.

Before I went down to Dublin on Friday I had 3 independent checks done o the place and the reg serial number from the owner’s document. All came back clear no warnings or suspicions.

Then last night I looked up about getting a replacement tax and mot cert, and found that the last mot on the 2/2/08 the miles which have to be recorded in England was 135,000 yet the clock said 67000 odd. It is obviously a clock and now the car is class but has left a sour taste in my mouth as you can imagine.

I bought it off a private sale in Dublin. The guy bought it in an auction in England and never reg it in his name. This not uncommon as it would look like it had 2 owners but he was just selling it on. I told him it was clocked and he was as shocked as me, but he could be acting.

I am posting not for abuse to be hurled at me for being so stupid, as I couldn’t have done much more homework on the car, but to see what you think I should do if anything, and to also see what the law says.... could I be done for having it at the miles that are clocked or do I have to get them changed to the real ones?

I though it was allot harder to do in the digital spedos.

Also a friend said it could have been a new engine and the miles could be reset. Is this a possibility?

Cheers and be nice

1Love

VH

the auction house would have details of the car including mileage - ask the seller for the name of the auction house

if the auction house has the higher mileage recorded then the person that sold to you clocked it and you can persue him for a refund or get him thru the small claims court

HPI checks arent 100% accurate as not everyone puts in the mileage when doing them

Henry Ford III

If it's a private sale you've no comeback. If he was a dealer (even a small time one) you may have legal redress open to you. Ask him for a refund to start with?

Pity you didn't check it out fully before you purchased. Did you HPI it?

smash

private sellers don't go to the uk, buy a car at auction and not register it... the guy is an unregistered dealer looking for a quick buck. Persue him!

Biro

steve06 wrote: »

private sellers don't go to the uk, buy a car at auction and not register it... the guy is an unregistered dealer looking for a quick buck. Persue him!

True, this is illegal isn't it?

Biro

jony1983ie wrote: »

I though it was allot harder to do in the digital spedos.

Actually it's far easier. Pick your mileage and that's it.
New Volvo's apparently are immune to this though, and to my knowledge no other car manufacturer is.

jony1983ie

I went to his house to get it so I have his address, only thing is he is a polish or eastern europen so I cant see him being to scared of the small claims. I did a HPI check AA check and vertas which the DVLNI use and all 3 came back great. Plus its in such good nick seat is harly warn peddles mats gear knob etc.

I have asked him for a refund but he said no as it is not his fault. I did pay cash (silly) and he will not tell me the auction house. He is also selling an sudi I have just found on carzone.ie but it has FSH so it is probably not clocked. I talked to the website to try and get him banned but they are useless.

I had no reason to think it was clocked as it is really in good nick. But i was trying to order a new mot cert and thats when my heart dropped.

I will contact the small claims cort. will they even give me the time of day as im from Canada(N.Ireland) and not Mexico (rep.Ireland)?

Seth Brundle

Isn't it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not registered here? I recall something of that nature being mentioned before!

Jumpy

Would the Gardai be of any use here?

jony1983ie

the car i bought photos from a garage near his house where he washed it

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Audi/A4/passat-1.9TDI/986606/

The audi he is selling. Potos from out side his house (appartment)

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=915573&message=You%20searched%20for%3A%20Audi%20A6%2C%20Colour%3A%20Silver%2C%20Engine%20Min%3A%201%2E9L%2C%20Engine%20Max%3A%201%2E9L%2C%20Oldest%3A%202002%2C%20Newest%3A%202002%2C%20Price%20Max%3A%20%E2%82%AC10%2C000%2E%20Your%20search%20returned%20one%20vehicle%2C%20which%20is%20shown%20below%2E&CFID=7200554&CFTOKEN=89058191

jony1983ie

I dont really have much dealing with the rent a cops (guard-e) but I know that up here you dont even have to put the miles on record so clocking is still a grey area and if you advertise it as sold as seen then its ok to sell it clocked. But as you can see he did not.

between a rock and a hard place indeed!

Msg Kbannon: Is it ok to talk about clocking as a topic? didnt see it in the rules so I just went ahead with it....

cheers

Biro

kbannon wrote: »

Isn't it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not registered here? I recall something of that nature being mentioned before!

It is I'm nearly sure. It's definately illegal to sell a car that has been clocked without informing the buyer of same. You can contact the Guards and get them to inform him of same, he has to give you your money back and he has to get his money back if he was unaware of it from where ever he bought it, but that's his tough crap.
Call the cops. Too many of these small time traders runing the market for the rest of us anyway. My advise to anyone is don't buy from one of these trader guys. Go yourself to England or buy Irish. They buy any crap they can sell, as can be seen from this example.
There are tens of thousands of Passats in Ireland not selling, bargaining is wide open. Call the cops, get your money back, teach him a lesson, and buy a better Passat for yourself.
Otherwise you'll be done for it when you sell it on, that or you wont' be able to sell it on.

Henry Ford III

Contact HPI. I believe you may have a case under their guarantee.

Seth Brundle

Discussions about clocking are fine as long as they don't get boards involved in libel.

Biro

jony1983ie wrote: »

the car i bought photos from a garage near his house where he washed it

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Audi/A4/passat-1.9TDI/986606/

The audi he is selling. Potos from out side his house (appartment)

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Car&carID=915573&message=You%20searched%20for%3A%20Audi%20A6%2C%20Colour%3A%20Silver%2C%20Engine%20Min%3A%201%2E9L%2C%20Engine%20Max%3A%201%2E9L%2C%20Oldest%3A%202002%2C%20Newest%3A%202002%2C%20Price%20Max%3A%20%E2%82%AC10%2C000%2E%20Your%20search%20returned%20one%20vehicle%2C%20which%20is%20shown%20below%2E&CFID=7200554&CFTOKEN=89058191

I see he's practiced in not paying for too many adds in Carzone, using an old add for a new car. Save himself €30.

bazz26

I'm sure Revenue would be interested in the dealings of this "private" seller too.

Lord Nikon

Did you buy that car for 8000 euro?

cashmni1

First off tell little fu@ker that you want a refund or:

Call the cops. Let them know the story, and that he will not tell you the name of the auction house. Tell them that he is selling an A4 (with the incorrect details on the web site too)
Why the fu@k (if he is innocent) would he not tell you the auction house?
He clocked the car for sure.
As a previous poster said, you also have a case with the HPI guarentee.

jony1983ie

neuromancer wrote: »

Did you buy that car for 8000 euro?

I got it for 5000 sterling

Edit: just over 7000 euro

Nonoperational

Get onto the guards, HPI and revenue ASAP. Scum like that cant get away with it.

jony1983ie

I will defently look into the HPI thing. I have rang the cops and they said they will get back to me when they are not so busy. Was a wee reception girl so awaiting their call. should I tell the PSNI?

jony1983ie

gpf101 wrote: »

Get onto the guards, HPI and revenue ASAP. Scum like that cant get away with it.

pardon the question but who is the revenue?

jony1983ie

Update.

The seller is now not answering my calls or text messages.
I had two numbers for him and both ring out or he will not rely to.

He is selling the Audi under the same number so I tried private number thinking he would pick up, but no joy.

I think i should send him a message saying I am contacting the guards to scare him but im useless at that sort of thing.

Anyone word it for me?

biko

Try ringing from phone boxes 10 times a day?
Involve the Garda.

At the end of the day you probably will have to "make do" with the car you bought but you can make things difficult for the prick that sold it to you. He will probably continue doing unlicensed sales of foreign cars in Dublin.

jony1983ie

biko wrote: »

Try ringing from phone boxes 10 times a day?
Involve the Garda.

At the end of the day you probably will have to "make do" with the car you bought but you can make things difficult for the prick that sold it to you. He will probably continue doing unlicensed sales of foreign cars in Dublin.

True. I am happy with the car in general it drives like a dream and the internals are 5* its just the bad taste of being screwed even after taking all the checks.

I have contacted HPI via email as the phone was a waiting game and also the revenue.

Hoping to hear back soon

Anan1

jony1983ie wrote: »

I have rang the cops and they said they will get back to me when they are not so busy. Was a wee reception girl so awaiting their call. should I tell the PSNI?

Try the Gardai again. Keep at them until they move on it. There's no point in telling the PSNI, this happened in the South. And don't ever buy a car without verifying the SH again. Cars without SH are almost always either uncared-for or clocked.

jony1983ie

My car has no service history and its ok its just I dont have a steady garage or get it stamped. It does have stickers on it saying dates of parts changed eg timing belt UV glow added etc so it looked pretty clean. Plus I took a VW mechanic with me who wired it up to the laptop and said it was all tip top. So I had as much covered as i possibly could

Anan1

jony1983ie wrote: »

My car has no service history and its ok its just I dont have a steady garage or get it stamped. It does have stickers on it saying dates of parts changed eg timing belt UV glow added etc so it looked pretty clean. Plus I took a VW mechanic with me who wired it up to the laptop and said it was all tip top. So I had as much covered as i possibly could

I don't mean to be smart here, but you bought a car with no SH and now you're surprised that it's clocked? If you don't want a clocked car you only buy with a full SH and you contact every garage who stamped the book to verify that the car was in fact serviced as and per the stamp. I mean come on, a UK Passat TDI being sold from an 085 number with no SH?? Of course it's clocked.

Anyway, what's done is done. Keep on top of the Gardai, if they start putting the heat on the seller, he may well refund your money.

DaMonk

on the kind of same topic...I bought a car 4 weeks ago privately and the head gasket is now gone on it(have another thread going on it so sorry for annoying people). The receipt says sold as seen and no warranty. Fair enough, I think the head was gone and they put in a super coolant to last it a few weeks til it was away. Ordinarily I dont think i would have a come back however, I now found out that the engine had been replaced in the car 8 months ago. This isnt a huge thing except the tax form, V5, doesn't match the engine number. Can this be grounds to demand a refund or get money back on it? any help appreciated!

Henry Ford III

DaMonk wrote: »

on the kind of same topic...I bought a car 4 weeks ago privately and the head gasket is now gone on it(have another thread going on it so sorry for annoying people). The receipt says sold as seen and no warranty. Fair enough, I think the head was gone and they put in a super coolant to last it a few weeks til it was away. Ordinarily I dont think i would have a come back however, I now found out that the engine had been replaced in the car 8 months ago. This isnt a huge thing except the tax form, V5, doesn't match the engine number. Can this be grounds to demand a refund or get money back on it? any help appreciated!

I doubt it.

jony1983ie

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't mean to be smart here,

Yeh point taken on board and noted. (tail between legs)

I will ring again at half 4 and 5 before i break for the day.

Thanks for all your help

Anan1

jony1983ie wrote: »

Yeh point take on board and noted. (tail between legs)

I will ring again at half 4 and 5 before i break for the day.

Tahnsk for all your help

Do keep at the Guards, it may take persistence, but getting them involved may well be the key to getting your money back. Good luck, in any case.

bazz26

jony1983ie wrote: »

True. I am happy with the car in general it drives like a dream and the internals are 5* its just the bad taste of being screwed even after taking all the checks.

I have contacted HPI via email as the phone was a waiting game and also the revenue.

Hoping to hear back soon

The problem is that when you go to sell the car on you have to inform the next owner that the mileage is not correct. Unfortunately altering the mileage on a car is not against the law to my knowledge but selling a car knowing that the mileage is altered is deemed to be breaking the law afaik.

Honestly I don't know how far you will get with regards getting your money back but at least it may prevent someone else from being caught by cowboys like this.

jony1983ie

tbh I would still buy it at the real miles I have just been smitten by it. But if it means someone out there is not stung then I will keep going till the bitter end!

NO SURRENDER (in a non political sence)



1Love

VH

with the real miles its not worth what you paid.

did he give you the name of the auction house? i would contact them asap and verify what it was when they sold it - tho in all honesty I suspect he bought it on ebay cheap with the intention of clocking it and selling it on at a profit

jony1983ie

no as in my previous post he has stopped all contact with me. Maybe he is reading this post even

Anyway I know what comapny owned the car first of all in england I rang them and they could only tell me the miles of its last mot on the 2/2/08 it was 136000 odd, and they do not know how it was sold as they give them to their supplier who is no longer with the company. (sounded like he left in a blaze of glory)

I know its not worth what I paid for it but tbh I have been looking for near a year and driven over 20 cars. none with the extras or style and comfort of this one and I am just happy with it.

I wonder if there is a way to get his email address off the carzone website that way i could email him incase his phone is broke or that ever.

Do carzone have to disclose the information they hold on him if the guards or I ask? and what sort of information do they hold?

hummm questions that I will look into me thinks.

DC Jonny1983ie is on the case! (que the Bill theme and me walking down some cobbles )

Anan1

The shame of it is, the car probably does have a full SH for the actual mileage. If they had nets around the HSS, imagine how many service books they'd have caught over the years...

jmayo

What about carzone, do they have any policy stating that the goods advertised on their site are legit to the best of their knowledge ?
If so get onto them and make it harder for the git to operate.
Check he isn't using other sites to advertise and hound him.

Have to say though buying UK car in Ireland with no serive history from guy operating from side of road type thing is a bit foolish.
When last looking for car took a look at some UK imports, some were in poor state and definetly the miles did not appear to match the condition.
As they say "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a bloody duck".

jony1983ie

Anan1 wrote: »

The shame of it is, the car probably does have a full SH for the actual mileage. If they had nets around the HSS, imagine how many service books they'd have caught over the years...

yeh its a shame... I have the garages that did the mot's so I wonder if they did the service work and kept a noteof it... I could build my own service history... I feel like that blackadder guy on time team.. all i nead is a cornish yogle to follow me around in a straw hat

1Love

jony1983ie

jmayo wrote: »

"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a bloody duck".

what can i say! when your rite your rite.

I will look into carzone a bit more but seeing they are part of the auto trader group is not going to be easy!

I will see if he is about the wibble web anywhere else.

Edit

Update***

he seams to be a bit of a dealer loads of dead links when I googled his mob number here is just a few of the active ones including one on RTE cars

http://search.autotrader.ie/www/cars_advert?country=IE&county_list=3_4_5_6_7_10_11_12_13_14_15_16_18_19_20_21_22_23_24_25_26_28_29_30_31_32_33&currency=EUR&make=&max_pr=7000&min_pr=2000&model=&sort=5&x=1&y=1&id=200831189528509

http://cars.motornet.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1065611

http://cars.rte.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=949475

http://cars.rte.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=773000

http://www.loadzacars.ie/cars/used/search/details/2038059

VH

the fact that he's not answering the phone is because he has something to hide

i would call around to his house (with 4 friends of course) and demand a refund or small claims court is the way it'll go

are you covered by HPIs guarantee?
http://www.hpicheck.com/newfrontend/viewTerms.do?page=guaranteeSummary.html

Pat Mustard

jony1983ie wrote: »

Update.

The seller is now not answering my calls or text messages.
I had two numbers for him and both ring out or he will not rely to.

He is selling the Audi under the same number so I tried private number thinking he would pick up, but no joy.

I think i should send him a message saying I am contacting the guards to scare him but im useless at that sort of thing.

Anyone word it for me?

Somebody mentioned contacting the Gardai and the Revenue Commissioners.

The Gardai do get busy and may tend to lose interest unless you decide to follow up with a written complaint about this dodgy car dealer. IMO, you should ring Customs & Excise section of the Revenue Commissioners, and explain the situation about this unauthorised dealer not registering cars that he brings into the country, or paying VRT for that matter. I think they'd be very interested in getting their teeth into this guy. That may not help you, but it just might shut this guy down.

I wouldn't bother trying to intimidate this guy with a text threatening the cops. He'll just get a new SIM card. Maybe he already did.

jony1983ie

VH wrote: »

the fact that he's not answering the phone is because he has something to hide

i would call around to his house (with 4 friends of course) and demand a refund or small claims court is the way it'll go

are you covered by HPIs guarantee?
http://www.hpicheck.com/newfrontend/viewTerms.do?page=guaranteeSummary.html

I emailed HPI and asked them they havent got back to me yet

on hold to the guards as we speak they are soo dum! ill fill you in later

Ok just off to the guard station litterly a stones throw away from where i bought it. They even knew the appartment block. The woman who siad "so why are you contacting kilmainham gard station?" asked her sargent and he said

"It is not a criminal matter so we cant do anything for you"
When asked what would he do he replied
" I would contact a solicitor as it is a civil matter maybe something like under the trades or discriptions act"
When asked if it was illigal to sell clocked cars in the south he said
"I'm sure it is but we have no proof he clocked it him self"

So as you can see I am at a dead end here really.
Next corse of action I think is to contact every palce I have found the car I bought and tell them the story

Also if there are any guards out there or law people who know the irish law better than me can you agree or disagree with the guards?

Cheers

We will get them in the end!!!!

jony1983ie

The Mustard wrote: »

I wouldn't bother trying to intimidate this guy with a text threatening the cops. He'll just get a new SIM card. Maybe he already did.

I will start on this tomorrow as I am away home in my newly clocked car to eat a bucket of chicken and hope my gf can comfort me

DonJose

I would try contact Revenue, sounds like this fellow is selling a fair amount of English reg cars

Customs Criminal Investigations & Coordination Branch
01 8277500
ceib@revenue.ie

or

VRT Prosecution Unit
074 9368836
vrodoneg@revenue.ie

Bobo78

Did ye read what he wrote about Audi, he said that the owner is emigrating, but in fact he is a doggy diler who makes profit on the base of the clocked cars.

biko

It seems pretty clear there is a EE guy in the pale that makes a living on going over to UK to buy cars and selling them on here. Trying to make a few extra bob by clocking and so driving up a bad price.

Definitely do what DonJose suggests. You have name and address.

johnml

Its up to the dealer to do a check on the car to ensure its not clocked, stolen or otherwise.
I know he's claiming to be private but its fairly obvious he's a small time dealer.
Its his problem if he ''didn't know it was clocked''. It's up to him to find out before re-selling. Chances are he might not have got it at auction.
If you can prove he's a dealer, take nothing less than a full refund. Go to the Garda fraud squad.
Best of luck and don't take any **** from him.

Churchy

Msg removed.

(Was gonna help but if you drove 100 miles to buy a car with no history from a EE bloke , well you know...)

jony1983ie

Churchy wrote: »

Msg removed.

(Was gonna help but if you drove 100 miles to buy a car with no history from a EE bloke , well you know...)

lol ouch! but true enough

I will do all that is mentioned in previous posts tomorrow when I get into work. and really it was more like 400 miles round trip

Nonoperational

Just make sure that you take into account the 136000 miles and adjust your ideas about servicing etc. Not sure of the VW service schedule myself but there may be things needing done at that sort of mileage that you wouldnt even think about at 60000. I know its little consolation but if you look after it there is no reason why it won't do another 100,000 miles with little trouble. Most likely UK motorway miles anyway!

And by the way, although it does sound a stupid thing ot do, I wouldn't say you were amazingly stupid, only a small but! Car looked good, you bought a mechanic with you... I've seen it a few times when a car looks and feels so good your rational thinking goes out the window. It'll be a lesson to you in future. Keep onto this anyway. Even if you got a miracle and got a grand or 2 back i'd say you'd be happy out!