overhead and front squat problems

maradona10

ive recently been practicing the front and overhead squat at the end of my workout with a light brush handle but am making little progress.

in the front squat when i have my upper arms parallel to the floor and the handle resting on my fingers the handle ends up touching my throat. I cant get the handle to rest on my shoulders. is this due to shoulder or wrist inflexibility or both

in the overhead sq i can get in the correct position overhead but when i sq the handle comes forward almost immediately.

can anyone recommend any solution or advise on the correct procedure when performing these lifts. im trying to follow the ex guide on stronglifts but am struggling

thanks

ali.c

practice and foam rolling were what helped me with the OHS.

Also there is a stretch that i found to be helpful too, basically you hold on to you toes and squat down inbetween your legs and lift your head. no idea what its called. I struggle with OHS due to poor flexibility....

brianthebard

Have you tried front squatting with your hands above,crossed and palm down,rather than clean grip?Are you pinching your shoulder blades together on the ohs?I believe thats important.

Hanley

maradona10 wrote: »

ive recently been practicing the front and overhead squat at the end of my workout with a light brush handle but am making little progress.

in the front squat when i have my upper arms parallel to the floor and the handle resting on my fingers the handle ends up touching my throat. I cant get the handle to rest on my shoulders. is this due to shoulder or wrist inflexibility or both

It's because the weight's not heavy enough. You need a bit of weight to push the bar down onto your shoulders. Next time try it with like 50-60% of your back squat training weight and you should see a difference. I firmly believe that the best way of getting the necessary flexiblity in your wrists etc to front squat properly is to just deal with the pain.

NOTE: that's what I did, and it worked damn well. But it's not risk free.

in the overhead sq i can get in the correct position overhead but when i sq the handle comes forward almost immediately.

can anyone recommend any solution or advise on the correct procedure when performing these lifts. im trying to follow the ex guide on stronglifts but am struggling

Could be anything tbh. I'd GUESS it's shoulder flexibility if it's happening straight away. If you can do a rock bottom front and back squat with good posture then your hips etc should be ok.... Shoulder dislocates are king if your shoulders are the problem.

Roper

If you're doing a technical lift at the end of your session you'll probably run into problems anyway. You're fatigued and your neurons ain't firing the way they were 40 minutes ago. If you want to do technique you should do it as a stand alone session or at least at the start of your session.

Also like Hanley said, it's very hard to use a broom handle or similar for things like the OHS as once you add the bar, where your centre of gravity should be is altered totally. The bar should be almost pulling you backwards itself on the ohs whereas with a broom handle or PVC pipe your arms can go where they want and you'll still complete the squat. The biggest flexibility issues I've ever seen with the ohs are back, hips and core. Not shoulders although I think thats where people think it is as that's where the lift tends to fail. Don't know how that compares with other people's experience though. I don't claim to be an expert here just going on what I see.

amazingemmet

A quick test to check for OH squat flexibility is to lie on the floor arms over your head and pressed into the floor like an OH squat position then try bring your knees up to your chest with no rounding of the lower back, if you can do that then its a stabilty/ motor pattern probelm rather then flexibilty

mushykeogh

The arms falling forwrad during an overhead squat generally indicates tightness in the lats and pec major, and weakness in the middle and lower traps.

spiral

do them both with a 20 kg bar fresh and come back .

if the bar is still in your throat on the FS pull your neck back slightly from the bar (think straightening your cervical spine ) and shrug your shoulders slightly up in the rack position.

For the OHS your shoulder blades should be as fully retracted as possible whilst driving your shoulders up as if the weight was crushing you.

Hope this helps.

Colm_OReilly

I'd echo what the others have said about FS - with the weight it's easier to get the bar on your shoulders. To mimic this with the pvs pipe we push the pipe into the underside of our throats so we can lift the elbows up.

Now, to get the shoulders forward. try touch your elbows together in front of you at eye level height. In all probability you won't be able, but you will have rolled your shouders forward for your FS.

Next shove your elbows up high. Remember, your hands are stabilisers on the FS, not supporting any weight. Wrist pain generally indicates you're carrying weight in your hands. Generally.

For the OHS, it takes time. Without seeing you I can't see how/when you're leaning forward.

Try OHS in front off the door frame. If the pipe touches the frame you know you're leaning forward. We've found this useful for feedback. Also, jumping from the pvc pipe to the Oly bar may be too much. If you have an Argos bar lying around, work up to 20Kg on that.

maradona10

thanks for all the replies, they are really helpful. sorry for the long post but ill try and respond to each point.

ali.c wrote: »

practice and foam rolling were what helped me with the OHS

whats foam rolling and how is it done?


Brianthebard I try to keep my sh blades together in the ohs but i dont think ive got it right. i want to learn the clean grip as its useful for other exercises

Hanley
[/QUOTE]It's because the weight's not heavy enough. You need a bit of weight to push the bar down onto your shoulders. Next time try it with like 50-60% of your back squat training weight and you should see a difference.[/QUOTE]

i think a heavier bar would help but theres no chance of me lifting 50-60%. id end up with the bar on top of me on the floor.

If you're doing a technical lift at the end of your session you'll probably run into problems anyway. You're fatigued and your neurons ain't firing the way they were 40 minutes ago. If you want to do technique you should do it as a stand alone session or at least at the start of your session.

i was thinking this but i dont have the time to fit in other sessions. i thought also if i practiced before my workout id just eat into the time and use up too much nervous energy

A quick test to check for OH squat flexibility is to lie on the floor arms over your head and pressed into the floor like an OH squat position then try bring your knees up to your chest with no rounding of the lower back, if you can do that then its a stabilty/ motor pattern probelm rather then flexibilty

i will try this and let you know. it sounds interesting

The arms falling forwrad during an overhead squat generally indicates tightness in the lats and pec major, and weakness in the middle and lower traps.

are there any good stretches for these areas. if it is weakness in the trap area what exercises would be best to improve them

do them both with a 20 kg bar fresh and come back .
if the bar is still in your throat on the FS pull your neck back slightly from the bar (think straightening your cervical spine ) and shrug your shoulders slightly up in the rack position.
For the OHS your shoulder blades should be as fully retracted as possible whilst driving your shoulders up as if the weight was crushing you.
Hope this helps.

ill try an do them fresh if i can get the time but ill have to use a lighter bar i think but maybe not

I'd echo what the others have said about FS - with the weight it's easier to get the bar on your shoulders. To mimic this with the pvs pipe we push the pipe into the underside of our throats so we can lift the elbows up.

Now, to get the shoulders forward. try touch your elbows together in front of you at eye level height. In all probability you won't be able, but you will have rolled your shouders forward for your FS.

Next shove your elbows up high. Remember, your hands are stabilisers on the FS, not supporting any weight. Wrist pain generally indicates you're carrying weight in your hands. Generally.

For the OHS, it takes time. Without seeing you I can't see how/when you're leaning forward.

Try OHS in front off the door frame. If the pipe touches the frame you know you're leaning forward. We've found this useful for feedback. Also, jumping from the pvc pipe to the Oly bar may be too much. If you have an Argos bar lying around, work up to 20Kg on that.
Colm_OReilly is online now Report Post Reply With Quote

ill try it with the bar and see if it helps. im not sure im leaning forward, its my arms going in front of my head but ill use the door frame next time as a guide.

thanks again to all

spiral

just to clarify in the ohs squat how far apart are your hands ?

maradona10

hands are shoulder width or slightly wider

Hanley

maradona10 wrote: »

hands are shoulder width or slightly wider

That's a "clean" grip. Clean grip overhead squats can only be tackled by those blessed with fantastic flexibilty.

The normal overhead squat grip is "snatch" grip. it varies from person to person, but approx. index fingers on the rings of a 7 foot olympic bar is where you should be grabbing.

spiral

ha yeah you might find it easier now

mushykeogh

Hanley wrote: »

The normal overhead squat grip is "snatch" grip. it varies from person to person, but approx. index fingers on the rings of a 7 foot olympic bar is where you should be grabbing.

True, but if a functional screen is being performed using an overhead squat, the hand grip would be shoulder width apart, which highlights the upper back restrictions.

With regards to exercises to strengthen middle back, I, Y, T, and W exercises are great or a seated row concentrating in scapula retraction. Basically the i, y t, w exercises require you lying facing down, extending your arms in front of you in an 'I' postion, thumbs up towards the ceiling then trying to raise the arms, spread them wider fo the Y and then 180 degrees for the T. Sorry about the descriptions but im sure you would find them on youtube. Another exercise would be the 'prone cobra', i think its yoga or pilates based.