Flood Response

BizPost

Does Dublin seem to fall apart when it comes to organisation in responding to fllooding.

Traffic Control
There was more than the guards needed to warn and divert traffic. Why weren't the army mobilised? As cars were pulled out of flooded roads others just drove straight in.

Rescue
Apparently there are only a dozen drysuits in all of Dublin Fire Brigade across a couple of Fire Engines. They need to be able to deal with sort of stuff a lot quicker and not leave people trapped in cars waiting for an hour to be rescued. Where were'nt some of the lifeboat people called out as they were in the UK last year?

CO19

This is Ireland,we're never prepared for anything

Elessar

The civil defence were called in to help pump water with their extra fire engines. Don't think there was a need for the army, it was only one day and by the time the got in positions it would be all over. Floods are receeding now.

CSU

I have invented an enzyme that quickly turns flood water into Guinness!:D

CO19

CSU wrote: »

I have invented an enzyme that quickly turns flood water into Guinness!:D

Excellent you're goin to be a rich man so

BizPost

Elessar wrote: »

The civil defence were called in to help pump water with their extra fire engines. Don't think there was a need for the army, it was only one day and by the time the got in positions it would be all over. Floods are receeding now.

How long does it take to people into place? Surely within an hour you could have somebody be it Civil Defence or Army placed at a junction where's there's 4 foot of water to divert traffic and stop unneccessary damage and people being put at risk.

Agree thankfully it was short lived but still over six hours the same roads were filling up cars, people getting out walking through rivers to get out.

Just seems we're never as prepared and co-ordinated as we should be for these things.

Fyr.Fytr

Where were CD elessar?

Elessar

All I heard was a fire/ambo crew telling control that the CD were not needed for this particular call because it was a trauma. Didn't say where.

BizPost

Its hard to know who does what when these things happen. You have a heap of different units that all could help the situation if they were used and co-ordinated right - Guards/ Fire Brigade/ Health Board/ City Council/ Civil Defence/ Volunteer Ambulances/ Lifeboats/ Army/ Met Eireann/ Media.

A lot of volunteers units are local based and am sure could help with local knowledge and providing transport etc.

I bet there's never been a training exercise between these units even though this happened five years ago in Drumcondra, seven years ago in Ringsend and its the same story repeated.

The Guards I assume key area is Traffic and they'll never have enough resources for this and probably dont' have proper gear for wading through water. You need proper gear for these conditions.

What you also need is for someone to quickly tell the difference between a heavy shower of rain and flood alerts like yesterday.

Bartronilic

BOTH places where I got hydrolocked there was nobody there to warn me except other hydrolocked people. Even near lucan the second time it happened to me a van crashed and both cars drove off as there was no point waiting. Was sad aswell to see ambulances and fire engines stuck in traffic.

CLADA

While trying to get an elderly lady and her young grandson to dry land yesterday was approached by a young man who demanded to know why I didn't stop him driving his VW polo into 3 feet of flood water.:mad:

metman

CLADA wrote: »

While trying to get an elderly lady and her young grandson to dry land yesterday was approached by a young man who demanded to know why I didn't stop him driving his VW polo into 3 feet of flood water.:mad:

Surely you should have dropped the old lady in order to prevent the lad's Polo getting wet?! Have ye nothing better to be doing than helping elderly people in an emergency :rolleyes:

CLADA

metman wrote: »

Surely you should have dropped the old lady in order to prevent the lad's Polo getting wet?! Have ye nothing better to be doing than helping elderly people in an emergency :rolleyes:

Ahem..where exactly did I mention I was carrying her:D

civdef

http://www.mem.ie/memdocuments/a%20protocol%20for%20multi-agency%20response%20to%20flood%20emergencies.pdf

Doesn't officially take effect till 30 Sept, but most of what's described is already in place.

metman

CLADA wrote: »

Ahem..where exactly did I mention I was carrying her:D

Then you have absolutely no excuse for failing to dive in front of the Polo

metman

civdef wrote: »

http://www.mem.ie/memdocuments/a%20protocol%20for%20multi-agency%20response%20to%20flood%20emergencies.pdf

Doesn't officially take effect till 30 Sept, but most of what's described is already in place.

Cheers for that. I was wondering if any preparatory plans were in place or indeed if joint service exercises were run/planned. They make all the difference when it comes to senior managers getting it right on the day.

Paulzx

BizPost wrote: »

Does Dublin seem to fall apart when it comes to organisation in responding to fllooding.

Traffic Control
There was more than the guards needed to warn and divert traffic.Why weren't the army mobilised? As cars were pulled out of flooded roads others just drove straight in.

Rescue
Apparently there are only a dozen drysuits in all of Dublin Fire Brigade across a couple of Fire Engines. They need to be able to deal with sort of stuff a lot quicker and not leave people trapped in cars waiting for an hour to be rescued. Where were'nt some of the lifeboat people called out as they were in the UK last year?

I'll try and address some of your points. I'm not speaking for any agencies but will give my opinions as a dfb firefighter.

"Why weren't the army mobilised? "

For what?. What were they going to do yesterday. Most of the flooding was on main roadways causing major traffic problems. It was not flooding invloving large amounts of housing which would have involved large evacuations. When Drumcondra flooded a few years back a lot of people had to be evacuated and Army trucks were quite rightly used.

"As cars were pulled out of flooded roads others just drove straight in."

That is down to the stupidity of the individual drivers. Surely if you see cars stuck in floods it might enter your mind not to drive in.

"Apparently there are only a dozen drysuits in all of Dublin Fire Brigade across a couple of Fire Engines. They need to be able to deal with sort of stuff a lot quicker and not leave people trapped in cars waiting for an hour to be rescued. Where were'nt some of the lifeboat people called out as they were in the UK last year?"


There are more than a dozen drysuits available to the DFB and all motors carry waders for the more minor floods. Priority will obviously be given to people in immediate danger and anyone left in their car for an hour has obviously been deemed to be safe for the time being. Whilst sitting in a wet car is not ideal it does not mean you are at immediate risk


The major problem as ever is the inabiliy of drains and riverbeds etc to cope with excessive rain. The rain yesterday was one months rain in a couple of hours. The planning needs to be done to prevent it in the first place rather than having to deal with the aftermath





"

CLADA

This situation developed in less than an hour and assisting people caught by the flash flooding takes all available resources of DFB, ambulance and Gardai. What compounds the problem is the amount of people who drive themselves into a situation where they are stranded by flood waters.

Public announcements by the media on behalf of Gardai advising drivers not to make unneccesary journeys are not invitations to come on out and have a look:mad:

Road flooded warnings are not challenges to test the seaworthiness of your car.

Yesterday I tried to explain to a driver in a ford focus that this particular stretch of road was impassible and pointed out the stranded vehicles. His reply was, "can I try, because I really need to get through".

The army should be deployed in these situations.......for sniper training.
:mad:

civdef

I was wondering if any preparatory plans were in place or indeed if joint service exercises were run/planned. They make all the difference when it comes to senior managers getting it right on the day.

Yep, the new major Emergency Framework implementation programme has been underway since 2006, and exercises form an important part of this.

The link below gives a good outline of progress to the start of this year:
http://www.mem.ie/memdocuments/mid%20term%20progress%20report.pdf

The site mem.ie is the place to go for info on the process.

msg11

Come on lads, this could have been easily voided to a certain extent. If drains were kept clean and can actully handle the water, the water would end up in a more safe place.

I was nearly left stranded in my house yesterday, cause of Dublin City Council. They just refuse to link a drain up outside my house, I have been asking for years.

At the end of the day, it's mother nature and her ways, they can't be helped.

civdef

One problem is flash floodwater picks up all matter of crap, and washes this into the drains.

the locust

I think its a fair point though that Dublin/Irish water drainage systems are pretty bad compared to other cities in europe.

msg11

civdef wrote: »

One problem is flash floodwater picks up all matter of crap, and washes this into the drains.

Very true point. But I cannot get is how, the water pushing down on all this crap dose not move it, I say it is really poor maintenance and lack of drainage, Sorry for saying this, but we pay taxes on everything, the government should not have to really on the ES to dig them out...

metman

Its a fair point Msg. Yep a lot of rain fell in one day. That's not in dispute. However when you factor in the abysmal lack of drainage on new roads like the M50, and the closure of the Port Tunnel for the same reason, well its just the same old same old with Ireland isn't it? Brown envelopes and the minimal standard of work done.

civdef

What evidence have you for this though?

metman

CD res ipsa loquitur! The thing speaks for itself.

civdef

I dunno, contract oversight rules really have tightened up so much in the last 20 decades that scams of the kind you describe are pretty much a thing of the past. The "minimal standard of work done" comes down to the fact that jobs are done on tight budgets, rather than corruption.

If inadequate drainage was contributory, it's more likely to be because it was judged that the amount provided would be sufficient in relation to the costs involved. How often do roads in these areas flood under less than "heaviest rainfall ever recorded conditions"?

u2gooner

I worked last night in a northside DFB station and it was the busiest night of my short career so far - Madness!!

We helped this poor Guard at one stage on the M1. Felt sorry for her being stuck there soaking wet but she wouldnt come with us as she was waiting for a squad car to come pick her up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055352223&page=2

I think its safe to say all the services are under resourced and it shows in a time like this. But as usual everyone gets stuck in and Id like to say thank you and well done to everyone who was out on the frontlines last night.

Random

u2gooner wrote: »

I worked last night in a northside DFB station and it was the busiest night of my short career so far - Madness!!

We helped this poor Guard at one stage on the M1. Felt sorry for her being stuck there soaking wet but she wouldnt come with us as she was waiting for a squad car to come pick her up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055352223&page=2

I think its safe to say all the services are under resourced and it shows in a time like this. But as usual everyone gets stuck in and Id like to say thank you and well done to everyone who was out on the frontlines last night.

Was this her?

Sierra Oscar

The weather that we saw was un-predicated, and at the time un-predictable. I think the Emergency Services did a mighty good job considering no severe flooding alerts were given 24 hours in advance.

lostexpectation

own up who got their ambo stuck?