Why are gymnasts in such good shape?

kazzer

Obviously years of conditioning is probably the main reason. But their physiques really stand out more so than most other athletes. Do they train differently? Are there any gymnasts here or does anyone know what sort of training regime they follow?

littlefriend

well check this out for a start -
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/

Also they tend to start very young and have long daily sessions. They are strong and flexible before they know what either thing really means. My niece, at age 7, was training 9 or 10 hours a week and her club wouldn't be anything special by any stretch of the imagination. She has a chin up bar on the door frame of her room and she can do maybe 20 without any problem at all, and thats just when she is passing it by - no effort involved really. She is incredibly flexible as well.

I used to do it also as a kid and I was the same as her. I'd watch tv sitting in side or box splits and constantly practiced - again that was only for a local club who were starting out and didn't really have a clue what they were doing. If I had a kid I would definitely have them learn gymnastics. Even now, 200 years later, I can still do some of the stuff from back then.

AlphaMale 3OO

A friend of mine did gymnastics as a kid. He was literally ripped at 12 years of age. I assume its due to being able to move your bodyweight in many uncompromising positions.

t-ha

Gymnastic movements rely alot on technique, but they also require alot of strength and frequent training, hence all them muskles. Being ripped would be down to them wanting to have the highest strength/weight ratio they can have, since it's their bodyweight they have to throw around most of the time. If you're thinking of doing gymnastics just to look like them I'd say there are easier ways (just regular weights, diet & cardio).

unreggd

Its because they're always working with their own body weight

Sonderval

Shame nobody ever seems to do classes for adults (or the 20-30 crowd anyways)

I'd love to be shown how to do some of the bodyweight stuff they do

amazingemmet

I might be teaching an adults workshop in crossfit ireland some time soon its not definite yet though.

the immortals

its because they have no life

smellslikeshoes

Because most of the world class gymnasts have been doing it for many many years, if you put the same amount of effort into any decent training program with the right diet you would probably look as good.

Hanley

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Because most of the world class gymnasts have been doing it for many many years, if you put the same amount of effort into any decent training program with the right diet you would probably look as good.

I sincerly doubt it. The average Joe training 3-4x a week and watching what they eat isn't going to look like an olympian gymnast (a member of the genetic elite) who's training evry day, and multiple times a day for tthe last 20 years!!

smellslikeshoes

Hanley wrote: »

I sincerly doubt it. The average Joe training 3-4x a week and watching what they eat isn't going to look like an olympian gymnast (a member of the genetic elite) who's training evry day, and multiple times a day for tthe last 20 years!!

Did you even read my post? I said that they have been doing it for many many years and if someone put in the same effort (ie training for those many many years). Not going to get into genetics because thats a slippery slope :P

Gymnasts concentrate so much on flexibility, endurance, strength and skill that looking that good is in the reach of the average person with a lot of work. None of them are that HYOOGE or anything just big-ish lean and ripped, but they are crazily strong for their size which is definitely a little further out of reach.

Ger the man

Most of there life is consumed with gymnastics plus they are not very tall which promotes the stocky appearance.

littlefriend

Hanley wrote: »

I sincerly doubt it. The average Joe training 3-4x a week and watching what they eat isn't going to look like an olympian gymnast (a member of the genetic elite) who's training evry day, and multiple times a day for tthe last 20 years!!

I don't mean to be rude but are you not stating the obvious there a bit? Did he not mean that anyone training since childhood at the same sport, whilst eating correctly, then they would more than likely be in the same shape as these gymnasts.

I don't agree that they are all stocky. I really noticed that yesterday watching the girls competition. I was thinking that despite the same training they remain with their natural body shape - some are just naturally stocky and some are more slight. The less stocky are more ballerina-like - very graceful and seem to float through their performances. The more stocky girls perform more like the guys I think. Its most noticeable on landing tumbles or when they salute [?] the judges at the end.

Hanley

littlefriend wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude but are you not stating the obvious there a bit? Did he not mean that anyone training since childhood at the same sport, whilst eating correctly, then they would more than likely be in the same shape as these gymnasts.

Possibly, but it's such a moot argument.

For one, I don't think most people have the genetic predisposition to become that densely muscled. If you look at those guys, they have the perfect body for their sport. They wouldn't be at that level without it. You've got to remember that coming out of the ex-soviet and now Chinese programs, only the strongest and best guys survive. They have thousands, if not tens of thousands training for the different sports and only the cream rise to the top. The rest get dropped. It's the guys with the work ethic and the genetic capability that will get to that level.

I don't know anyone who trains that much unless they're competiting at a high level in a sport anyway, and if they are able to compete at a high level then they probably have above average genetics.

Basically, my argument comes down to genetic potential. Yes, if people trained for years and ate right then they would make MASSIVE improvements to their physique and probably look better than 9 out of 10 people walking down the street, but it's only a VERY RARE person that would get to look like an olympic gymnast.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

I don't know anyone who trains that much unless they're competiting at a high level in a sport anyway, and if they are able to compete at a high level then they probably have above average genetics.

50% of people have above average genetics.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

50% of people have above average genetics.

Fine...

*genetics that are sufficently good to allow them to compete and be competitive at a high level in their sport


Better?

dave80

some are in a lot better shape than others, theses guys are no more than 70kgs and are quite short they'd look like a child standing next to anybody of normal height that are in good shape

amazingemmet

For girls If you have genetics that will let you grow above 5'2 you don't have the genetics to make an olympian gymnast, simple as. Also to be an "olympian gymnast" you also have to be born the right year especially for girls as their power to weight ratio peaks at 18-19 so if you are to old or two young the time the olympics comes round you may have the genes and training to be a champ but its not going to happen.

kazzer

The thing is most professional athletes have been training many hours a day from a very young age - but I still think that physique wise, gymnasts (male anyway) stand out. Just look at how developed their arms are. So what do they do different from other athletes who would train just as hard, and with alot of weights?.....I suppose it is down to genetics, and all the body weight training.

Colm_OReilly

www.gymnasticbodies.com

Go play on rings, do handstands, go to www.beastskills.com, practice these two movements, and you'll see the results.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Fine...

*genetics that are sufficently good to allow them to compete and be competitive at a high level in their sport


Better?

My point was
a) to be a pedant
and
b) that genetics are used as a catch all to either explain away poor performance by oneself or to explain why another athlete is faster than you when in fact he's just cleverer and harder working. The term "Freak" exists mainly in BBing and PLing and I think we know why that is

The genetic "freak" factor is actually quite slim. There are very few genetic freaks out there, but what there is is a tier of people who for example, from a power point of view, are better able to develop fast twitch muscle fibres. As I've pointed out, if we're talking law of averages here, 49.9% of people have above average genetics (although genetics doesn't really comform to averages I'm told). Out of those we could have 20% suited for distance running, 15% for pure strength exercises and the remainder for whatever, the make up of an imaginary number isn't really important. The point I'm trying to make is that there is simply no way of ascertaining wether or not someone is genetically "elite" when we're talking about specialisation. If you compare this years 100m champ to me, then he will be genetically superior. But he'll also be genetically superior to the marathon winner, who will in turn be genetically superior to him due to his capability to pump oxygen over long periods of time.

Maybe there's a case for genetic superiority winning out in the Decathlon, but where do you factor in work rate, psychology and dumb luck?

unreggd

amazingemmet wrote: »

I might be teaching an adults workshop in crossfit ireland some time soon its not definite yet though.

Keep me posted!

Colm_OReilly

Myself and Emmet have worked out the details, will post it all up tomorrow.

Limited spaces, yada yada yada

mbren

Alot of gymnastics involves lifting your own weight and this is tehbest form of exercise for becoming muscular...thats simply put by the way, i'm sur ethere are alot mor edetailed reasons out there

Hanley

mbren wrote: »

Alot of gymnastics involves lifting your own weight and this is tehbest form of exercise for becoming muscular...thats simply put by the way, i'm sur ethere are alot mor edetailed reasons out there

The problem with your bodyweight is that it's very hard to adjust the resistance. Obviously doing straight arm moves etc can be a way of doing this, but the progression from one stage to the next seems to be huge.

Bodybuilders and powerlifters are two of the most heavily muscled groups of people out there and their training is based around barbells, dumbbells and machines.

Bodyweight exercises are a good way to get big, if you start young. But for most, barbells and dumbbells are the best way to go.

Lil' Smiler

Hello..

Ex Squad Gymnast & Coach here..

Ger the man wrote: »

Most of there life is consumed with gymnastics plus they are not very tall which promotes the stocky appearance.

Yes for professionals, mos tof their lives are consumed by it. Kids education is scheduled around training times etc but you have to remember, it's like most professional sports, the kid would get up and training before going to school, during lunch and after school sort of thing.

And not all gymnasts are small. Obviously the chinese are, the americans too but the Russians tend to be taller.. I don't know if anyone knows Svetlana Khorkina who retired after Athens but she was considerably tall compared to the rest. Some people genuinely are born with the physique and they make great gymnasts, we have 2 in our club who are little stocky looking things, both 7 and are complete powerhouses, stronger than some 10 year olds etc

I think with gym that, for me anyway, I can find it quite addictive. I will always work and work and work at something to get it right and I sometimes become obsessed with trying to make sure i snap my chest up fast at the end of a move or whatever.

For me it's also a place where I can shut off from everything, I need my full concentration in gym so nothing else enters my mind, it's something i love about the sport. If you're going to do a flip or somersault on the beam and your mind goes off track for one tiny split second, chances are you'll snot yourself.

Sonderval wrote: »

Shame nobody ever seems to do classes for adults (or the 20-30 crowd anyway

I would LOVE to coach an adult gym class, but you have to remember a coach has to lift a whole persons body weight, say on bars or to teach someone to do a flip. it's so tiring on your body so probably until better and more advanced equipment i developed you won't see so many classes. \Also you have to remember that the younger you are, the more supple and less prone to injury your body is and it'd be pretty easy for someone to break their arm/ribs. put a disc out and blame the gym and there comes a court case!


As a coach myself, I try to focus alot on the conditioning element of gym aswell as the training. In every move the gymnast does, you use your whole body. Strong shoulders are needed for EVERYTHING which is why handstand is possibly THE most important move in gymnastics. You see it on every piece, pommel,rings,bars, beam,floor and vault!

It's hard trying to explain to explain to the gymnasts why they need to do this conditioning, i think most of the time they think it's just so we can inflict what pain we want on them!! they think we're... maybe it is unfortunate for our kids that I am a trained Sports Injuries Therapist so rehab is a huge part of my treatment and then that another coach is a qualified PT

If you do look though at the gymnasts in Beijiing at the moment and then compare them to the Irish gymnasts. Irish gymnasts are no where near the level of those gymnasts, again the physique is completely different. At the moment, there is 1 full time gymnastics facility in the country.. 2 more being built as far as i know. this means that each club, rents our time in our various spots halls and has to lay out the equipment and put it away which takes an hour out of each training session.. and then do it all again for our next one. Unforunately gymnastics, even though there is a lot of interest in it (our club has a 200 kid waiting list) is considered a minority sport so there's very little money pumped into it. Pity considering it is meant to be one fo the 3 best sports/activities for child development


Ooops.... a bit of a ramble, apologies. hope that helps.

amazingemmet

Fully agree with ya smiler,

That said khorkina was only 5'4" so not like she was a giant among normal people.

Lil' Smiler

True Emmet, she always seemed so much taller! I suppose compared to Miller & the then little Americans, i'm talking Atlanta '96 - Syndey '00 she looked huge!!

I just read there actually that Shawn Johnson from the US team only trains 20 - 25 hours compared to most elite gymnasts who train about 40 hours... my competitive kids train 5 hour a week!!

Colm_OReilly

Lil Smiler,

Thanks for that! Do you know of any good videos or resources for coaching gymnastics to children. I'd love to incorporate as much gymnastics I can into my kids martial arts classes, but right now all I know how to do is tell them to do forward rolls and such.

Also, where's the full time gymnastics facility in Ireland?

Thanks,
Col

W0LFMAN

I did Gymnastics for 8 years when I was (aged 7 to 15)....I was representing England’s North West and would often compete against Ireland at lilleshaw sports centre. I was spotted by a scout "Mr lee" in salford sports centre, doing gymnastics for kids lessions.

I trained Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. 18:30 till21:30 weekdays and 10:00 till 17:00 Saturday. This was handy for my parents as they had 4 boys in very close age with each other. and packing one off to be babysat by gymnsatics people for most of the time was handy.

There were 4 in my team with a designated Gymnastic coach. There was 1 more boys team who were much older then us. Apart from that and the girls we had the Gymnastics building pritty much to ourselves.

Training was very painful sometimes stretching constantly; we had the Fear knocked out of us at a very young age of what was normally dangerous for us kids to do. This would reflect in my school antics where during dinner break I used to run around the top of the school buildings jumping from roof to roof for a few pence my mates would pay so I could buy some crisps or chocolate, as at home and at the gym we were on a very tight diet. I never got bullied at school, I would often play with the "cock of the year" as a toy the fitness levels were non-compairable. I was in all the school sports teams playing mostly with the other kids.

At the time this to me was normal. Some of the other stories I got up to you wouldn’t believe.

I was very much programmed. The constant training showed signs in my physical development when my 3 younger brothers began to grow taller than me when I was around 14, now 5 foot 8 my 3 younger brothers are all 6 foot 2, 6 foot 4. I am dwarfed by my 3 younger brothers, I think this was because of the constant stretching of my tendons at an early age.

At 28 years of age I’m still happy that I did gymnastics, I’m Never Sick, I’ve never broken a bone in my Body, Still very agile. I’ll never get up to the standard I once was, but my technique is still all there for general fitness.

It’s a pleasure to watch the gymnastics on the tele, but I take my hat off to those who found a career in it. They are some of the strongest disciplined people I Know.

BrianD3

W0LFMAN wrote: »

Some of the other stories I got up to you wouldn’t believe.

Try us

whiteandlight

My sister did gymnastics for years and even got so far as representing Ireland at the youth olympics. She got a lot out of gymnastics but not enough (in my opinion) for all the work that goes into it.
Training 5/6 days a week for years, constantly pushing yourself mentally as well as physically and (in Ireland) knowing that you will never even come close to the international standard. She also reckons it affected her development to a certain extent-chest size, arms etc. Psychologically I'm not sure I agree with it for children either as it is a massive commitment for someone that young to take on. Training, weight, condition, practise, competitions will take its toll on any youngster. Its also not really a team sport so there's not as much support/comraderie are there would be in team sports as at the end of the day you are competing against everyone your age even if you are training with them on a day to day basis.
The post that says gymnastics is underfunded is perfectly correct. My sis was lucky as we live in Ballina, Co. Mayo which is still (I believe) the only permanent gym in southern Ireland. Having said that it cannot really be used as a competition gym as they had to compromise on space and you cannot run floor competitions at the same time as bar/vault.
Irelands gymnastics has been improving over the years, albeit slowly. We have and are still learning alot, especially from Northern Ireland who have better facilities and coaches.
As regards the genetics idea, I've no real opinion on it but I will say when attending the youth olympics I was stunned at how small all the teams were. Anna Pavlova was participating in the competition and I remember watching her in later years in the olympics (2004 I think) and thinking that she looks way smaller in real life!!

Anyways thats my bit, someones probably going to get mad at me for it but what the hell

Al_Fernz

W0LFMAN wrote: »

The constant training showed signs in my physical development when my 3 younger brothers began to grow taller than me when I was around 14, now 5 foot 8 my 3 younger brothers are all 6 foot 2, 6 foot 4. I am dwarfed by my 3 younger brothers, I think this was because of the constant stretching of my tendons at an early age.

I thought this was the case. However, I have since been told otherwise. The only reason that gymnast's growth might be stunted is because they are not as well nourished. Gymnastic training will not effect somebody's growth potential. Would somebody be able to clear this up for me please?

unreggd

Al_Fernz wrote: »

I thought this was the case. However, I have since been told otherwise. The only reason that gymnast's growth might be stunted is because they are not as well nourished. Gymnastic training will not effect somebody's growth potential. Would somebody be able to clear this up for me please?

It can though

As its a body weight sports there'd be muscle growth, and muscle growth in kids can stunt their growth as the muscle puts pressure on the joints and stops/slows bones from goin

somethin like that

amazingemmet

unreggd wrote: »

It can though

As its a body weight sports there'd be muscle growth, and muscle growth in kids can stunt their growth as the muscle puts pressure on the joints and stops/slows bones from goin

somethin like that

I'm calling bull on that, back it up or stfu (with utmost respects).

brianthebard

unreggd wrote: »

It can though

As its a body weight sports there'd be muscle growth, and muscle growth in kids can stunt their growth as the muscle puts pressure on the joints and stops/slows bones from goin

somethin like that

you're mixing your myths,this one's usually used wrt creatine use by teens.

W0LFMAN

I'm pritty sure, gymnastics stunted my growth... you got to remember the excercise's were pounding and not your average fitness movements.....

Learning to do double back somesaults on the floor was hard on the joints, even though the floor was spring loaded.
The most painfull stretching was when the coach (A Large MAN twice your size) Grabs your Ankle with one hand and your knee-cap with the other (This locks your leg in a straight line without bending)...you lie on your back.. and with his adult strength he sits on one leg. then with the leg he's holding in this locking position he pushs your ankle staight to the floor behind your head. like doing the splits upsidedown.
This made me bleed under the skin at my groin plently of times when i first started training....

I believe this fitness saved my life one day:... when I was 9, I was foolish enough to run out inbetween two parked cars...a Car travelling 40 miles an hour hit me dead on...in the street where I played.

I took the full force in my chest, which my arms just managed to wrap around before impact. the front bumper of the car broke in the middle and fell off the car...I woke up underneath the car for a moment to make sure I was alive then I was out asleep for 6 days... The doctors were amazed at the fact I only suffered severe brusing...and that some cases where the speed was much less they saw some horific injuries...

..

Last thing...about height.

At my grandmothers funeral i was a coffin bearer with my 3 younger 6 foot plus brothers...Ive never seen a coffin tripod walk into a church before, but it did that day...was a real laugh...I knew then my height was something enviromental and not genetic...

Dragan

unreggd wrote: »

It can though

As its a body weight sports there'd be muscle growth, and muscle growth in kids can stunt their growth as the muscle puts pressure on the joints and stops/slows bones from goin

somethin like that

Muscle and bone are the two tissues with the highest rate of growth in teenage years for the average person.

A mild argument can and has been made for load affecting the growth of kids....countless people who train for sports and weights from a young age but still reach "normal" height debunks it as being a leading factor.

A possible contributing factor in realtion to others maybe, but not a lone factor or even a high one.

Lil' Smiler

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Lil Smiler,

Thanks for that! Do you know of any good videos or resources for coaching gymnastics to children. I'd love to incorporate as much gymnastics I can into my kids martial arts classes, but right now all I know how to do is tell them to do forward rolls and such.

Also, where's the full time gymnastics facility in Ireland?

Thanks,
Col

Colm,

Resource wise there isn't too much out there, although I did come across a forum "The Chalk Bucket" which has a few coaches posting tips for the kids/other coaches etc. I generally learn alot of stuff from going to coach in other clubs or looking at comps to see how the other coaches do their thing. Am still waiting to do my 2nd coaching course..3 years on. The IG are running intro level courses at the moment anyway which might be helpful

I'm actually coaching a kid at the mo who does extreme martial arts and has come to us to learn flips and somersaults!

The full time facility is in Lisburn, a club called Salto. I know Excel gym club in Dublin were getting one although I don't know if it's ready yet. There was talk amongst Dun Laoghaire Rathdown CoCo about one, but don't know what happened there.

W0LFMAN wrote: »

Training was very painful sometimes stretching constantly; we had the Fear knocked out of us at a very young age of what was normally dangerous for us kids to do. This would reflect in my school antics where during dinner break I used to run around the top of the school buildings jumping from roof to roof for a few pence my mates would pay so I could buy some crisps or chocolate, as at home and at the gym we were on a very tight diet. I never got bullied at school, I would often play with the "cock of the year" as a toy the fitness levels were non-compairable. I was in all the school sports teams playing mostly with the other kids.

At 28 years of age I’m still happy that I did gymnastics, I’m Never Sick, I’ve never broken a bone in my Body, Still very agile. I’ll never get up to the standard I once was, but my technique is still all there for general fitness.

It’s a pleasure to watch the gymnastics on the tele, but I take my hat off to those who found a career in it. They are some of the strongest disciplined people I Know.

W0LFMAN wrote: »

I'm pritty sure, gymnastics stunted my growth... you got to remember the excercise's were pounding and not your average fitness movements.....

Learning to do double back somesaults on the floor was hard on the joints, even though the floor was spring loaded.
The most painfull stretching was when the coach (A Large MAN twice your size) Grabs your Ankle with one hand and your knee-cap with the other (This locks your leg in a straight line without bending)...you lie on your back.. and with his adult strength he sits on one leg. then with the leg he's holding in this locking position he pushs your ankle staight to the floor behind your head. like doing the splits upsidedown.
This made me bleed under the skin at my groin plently of times when i first started training....

Yeah that's one thing I will not do, force the kids I coach to do something. Luckily for myself and my colleague being "in the know" we know better than to push the kids down into splits etc... it's not gonna make them enjoy the sport.


I want my competitive kids to have fun whilst tstill training to achieve their goals the best they can. I've had a group, who started when they were 6/7 and now they're 8/9/10.. they never cry when they fall off the beam etc. it's great, when they were young and they'd fall off, i'd encourage them to get back up on the apparatus and do the move again to help get rid of their fear.. they're some the toughest little cookies i know!

W0LFMAN

Lil' Smiler wrote: »

I want my competitive kids to have fun whilst tstill training to achieve their goals the best they can. I've had a group, who started when they were 6/7 and now they're 8/9/10.. they never cry when they fall off the beam etc. it's great, when they were young and they'd fall off, i'd encourage them to get back up on the apparatus and do the move again to help get rid of their fear.. they're some the toughest little cookies i know!

In the eight years i did gymnastics the Fun really outweighed the pain and hurt...
Boys that are fit and healthy are extream energy balls... I know I was, know-one for the life of me could tie me down I was so Hyper!..Even though there was only 4 in our team, competion between ourselves was the best form of learning and becoming better.
However it was hard measuring ones performance during competion times, My skill would nearly double.... only because of fear of the competion itself. This presure of this on someone so young was life altering....

amazingemmet

One of the main benefits that will hold someone through life from gym is increased bone density everyone I know who has done gym has amazing density, For example my wrists measure 8.5 inches around one of the girls I train with is 5 foot on the button and has 5.5 inch wrists. Awesome if you ask me.

Lil smiler what level coaching do you have? Also if you're waiting that long can't you do the course over here and then get the qualification tranfered as I know british gymnastics have courses running the whole time here.

Lil' Smiler

amazingemmet wrote: »

Lil smiler what level coaching do you have? Also if you're waiting that long can't you do the course over here and then get the qualification tranfered as I know british gymnastics have courses running the whole time here.

I've got WAG level 1... there's a difference in the BAG levels to the IG levels so I've been thinking about it but i've to look at it carefully, might have to start at the level 1 or whatever the equivalent is ..but they'll be at weekends so it's hard to take the time off from my gym as it is also.. they can be a bit crappy about insurance, my friend had an awful time trying to get registered in the UK as a coach with her IG level 2, so i'll have to see!!

rubadub

Al_Fernz wrote: »

I thought this was the case. However, I have since been told otherwise. The only reason that gymnast's growth might be stunted is because they are not as well nourished. Gymnastic training will not effect somebody's growth potential. Would somebody be able to clear this up for me please?

I have heard the myth was due to people seeing short pro gymnasts, if you are short it would be more likely you have a higher strength to weight ratio so you would be more likely to be top of your game, just like pro basketball players are more likely to be tall.

So if you want to counteract any potential stunted growth simply bounce a ball for a few mins after your workout, since using the same logic it will cancel the effect

Wolfman- I know families with short and tall brothers, do the other tall brothers look like you? or do they all look alike. I presume some just take after their mother and some the father. Are your parents tall/short?

W0LFMAN

Funny enough, both my parents are quite small... Mum 5,4 Dad 5,9....

Yes all us bro's look alike..and there 6,2 6,2 and 6 foot 1.

And Im 5.8