freesat/terresterial combo?.

bassy

hi guys would this http://www.sdsdigital.co.uk/Technomate-TM-4200-Combo-Freeview-And-Satellite-Receiver-pr-734.html be ok for me to receive both freesat and the dtt channels from mount leinster?.

slegs

Not sure this is capable of decoding an MPEG4 stream (Irish DTT is DVB-T/MPEG4 not DVB-T/MPEG 2 like the UK)

You will receive FTA satellite channels with this box.

Note this is different from freesat (www.freesat.co.uk). While although it has many of the same channels, freesat is also a service like Sky Digital with full EPG and Red button features etc. Only freesat approved boxes have the software to receive the full freesat service.

bassy

any one else on here using a combo box to get the free standard digital channels from 28.2 east and the dtt channels from mt.leinster?,if so what make and model is your combo receiver?,thanks.

scath

bassy wrote: »

any one else on here using a combo box to get the free standard digital channels from 28.2 east and the dtt channels from mt.leinster?,if so what make and model is your combo receiver?,thanks.

One of the posters mentioned:
Technomate TM-6900 Combo HD
Clarketech 5000 HD Combo
MVision HD200
Vantage HD 7100TS Combo models work for DTT and Freesat.

I haven't satellite so, am not at that stage yet. These 4 would be MPEG4 apparently.

watty

Reelbox
Lyngbox
PC with Sat & DTT cards
PC with combo Sat & DTT card

STB

bassy wrote: »

hi guys would this http://www.sdsdigital.co.uk/Technomate-TM-4200-Combo-Freeview-And-Satellite-Receiver-pr-734.html be ok for me to receive both freesat and the dtt channels from mount leinster?.

bassy thats for the british market its MPEG2 not MPEG4. Dont touch it if you are expecting the DTT to work.

I am using a the technomate (Technomate TM-6900 Combo HD). It works fine, can record (when a HDD is added) and can play media files etc as it has a USB port it also does lots more but thats why it costs STG250 I suppose.

gman74

hi i have deleted all my channels from my digital box receiver for no dumb ass reason can anyone help me get them back ?

Mossy Monk

Are you referring to The Box, the cable theft device?

watty

Ignore

gman74

rubert murdoch must be so proud of you

bassy

that your man from the A-TEAM.

gman74 wrote: »

rubert murdoch must be so proud of you

Phibsboro

Question for STB re the technomate - how do you find it? Is it able to pick up the current RTE DTT broadcasts (I've been out of this loop for a few weeks, are these now in MPEG4?) Whats the integration between the two tuners like - can you have a channel list that includes both DTT and Sat channels? What EPG info if any do the sat channels show? Do you get BBC interactive? Aside from this box, do you know of any other combo box that would work with current RTE DTT broadcasts?

Loads of questions there I know, but I'm moving towards dropping NTL, even if its just a freesat box and anologue terrestial...

C

watty

The answer to most of those is no.

FORGET COMBO boxes for now if you want decent functionality.

Phibsboro

So assuming i'm going to do something in the next two months, which way should I go? Two seperate boxs, one freesat one mpeg4 DTT? Or forget about DTT until the Irish situation becomes clearer? Tho if thats the case I'll prolly have to stick with NTL (tho might try analogue I guess). What would you recommend at the mo Watty?

Cheers,
C

STB

Phibsboro wrote: »

Question for STB re the technomate - how do you find it? Is it able to pick up the current RTE DTT broadcasts (I've been out of this loop for a few weeks, are these now in MPEG4?) Whats the integration between the two tuners like - can you have a channel list that includes both DTT and Sat channels? What EPG info if any do the sat channels show? Do you get BBC interactive? Aside from this box, do you know of any other combo box that would work with current RTE DTT broadcasts?

Loads of questions there I know, but I'm moving towards dropping NTL, even if its just a freesat box and anologue terrestial...

C

I found it through research! Just Google Technomate 6900 Combo....Its freely available on ebay and from UK sat sites for around STG£250. With the currency so close at the moment, it’s cheap that way. Zintek on the greenhills road also sell them (they are the agent in Ireland for Technomate).

It has an mpeg4 dvb-t tuner (so yes it picks up the RTE multiplex).

The integration between the tuners is a one button switch that can switch to all your other satellites (Auto Navigation system). So if you have a motorised dish you can get even more.

Can you mix both... yes favourites etc. Or simply flick.

It has USB2 PVR Ready. Just need to connect an external HDD. (so it records as well as plays back media). You can schedule recording through the epg.

Look at the spec and it'll tell you all it does!

The EPG display displays whats broadcast! It gives all the tech data on the channel display (info button).

Re BBC interactive. Very important that you know the difference between freesat and astra 2 free satellite.

I also have a freesat HD box. When you press the red button it pulls up the interactive menu on the side and you go down to a listing for the Olympics (3001). When you click on that it gives you a main screen and then you press numbers between 1 and 9 to watch individual areas - boxing badminton, etc.

The way this is treated without a freesat box (remember freesat is only the branding for s ateilte reciver that picks up, stations mainly stations on Astra 2 - and eurobird) packaged within a nice EPG and user friendly display so it is different from how a normal satellite box behaves.

The normal satellite receiver will also pick up the interactive elements of BBC - like multiple sports during the Olympics as different streams. So they will be individual stations on a normal free to air satellite box. The Technomate can display multiple screens anyhow...so its no biggie. I have heard that freesat software can be loaded on to it, but I am sure thats illegal (along with the many other patches that are probably available for this box). Its well supported.

Other boxes... (why would you need another!)

Clarketech 5000 HD Combo
MVision HD200 Combo
Vantage HD 7100TS Combo

In terms of functionaility, having both DTT and Sateilte, substitles, the ability to record playback etc.... yeah its got all that in my opinion, especially for the money.

Anybody who tells you otherwise is likely to have a hidden agenda, or refuses to move with the times

Zaphod

STB wrote: »

I have heard that freesat software can be loaded on to it

What do you mean by 'freesat software'?

byte

Zaphod wrote: »

What do you mean by 'freesat software'?

The only software I'm aware of is the one where the software will add ITV HD to your listings. That said, its nearly possible to add ITVHD to nearly any HD receiver now. Got it working on my Octagon also, though staring at a black screen with ITVHD logo isn't exactly exciting!

coco0981

Hi
I take it from this that my sky freeview box won't be able to pick up dtt when it eventually goes live. Does this mean i'll need two boxes, one for uk satellite one for irish dtt

Phibsboro

Watty - do you have a response to STB's answer?

The technomate box does seem a reasonable answer to getting sub free telly at the mo in that it offers an integrated Irish DTT/FTA Sat epg (at least to the extent of a favs channel list). Seperate boxes would give a better DTT EPG experience (presumably, tho maybe not), definitely a better Freesat eperience (full freesat EPG, BBCi etc.) at the expense of an integrated list (requirement to switch inputs on the telly and then use a different remote) and also loss of non freesat FTA channels (key loss for me would be Sky news - unless any of the freesat allow addition of non freesat stations?).

C

Phibsboro

smurfman4ever wrote: »

Hi
I take it from this that my sky freeview box won't be able to pick up dtt when it eventually goes live. Does this mean i'll need two boxes, one for uk satellite one for irish dtt

I think you might getting confused - assuming sky is Sky the sat tv company, a sky receiver will only pick up satellite broadcasts. DTT is terrestial digital, it is picked up via an aerial like old style analogue tv and needs a special receiver to decode it.

The term "freeview" is very confusing. Its main meaning in these discussions is as the brand name for the UK's DTT system. So if someone says they got a freeview box in the North they mean they bought a UK Digital TV receiver. Historically however, Sky have had a card that allowed Sky digiboxes (which are satellite recievers obviously) to get the basic UK channels. This is a legal requirement in the UK and available for free to UK TV license payers. This card was know as a Freeview card (tho I believe that Sky have muddied the waters even further by now calling it a Freesat card!). So a Sky digibox with Freeview (or Freesat) card has nothing to do with DTT, Irish or UK. Someone should really trademark these names and stop Sky screwing around with them.

C

Mossy Monk

Phibsboro wrote: »

This card was know as a Freeview card (tho I believe that Sky have muddied the waters even further by now calling it a Freesat card!). So a Sky digibox with Freeview (or Freesat) card has nothing to do with DTT, Irish or UK. Someone should really trademark these names and stop Sky screwing around with them.

It is known as a Free To View card and has been known that before Freeview was even thought of. Sky call it "Freesat From Sky".

STB

Zaphod wrote: »

What do you mean by 'freesat software'?

STB

Phibsboro wrote: »

Watty - do you have a response to STB's answer?

...... and also loss of non freesat FTA channels (key loss for me would be Sky news - unless any of the freesat allow addition of non freesat stations?).

C

They do.... its the law. The Alba group of boxes (Grundig , Goodmans) were the ones that didnt. Freesat rolled out OTA firmware that now has a menu option to add non freesat channels. Its a pain the ass to be honest adding the channels as you have to do so per frequency (there is no add all non freesat channels automatically option).

Surely having one remote is better than 2 or 3.

Because they are integrated doesnt mean they will perform just as well. I dont get the logic there to be honest. Anyway the spec is out there for DTT with it more than likely being up and about around the country by March 2009 for the PSBs according to recent news reports. I think it is quite clear what technology is being deployed. Or you could wait and see.......

By the way MHEG 5 (for interactive elements) is not covered by the technomate if that is of huge concern going forward. I dont sell them, but I continue to be impressed by it.

Phibsboro

On the freesat box issue, I used a Bush box a couple of months ago and it definitely didn't allow for the addition of non-freesat channels, tho assuming OTA means over-the-air, it may well be updated next time I try it

In general I think the attraction of seperate boxes is getting the full EPG data on both. I think DTT epg is pretty standard and so the technomate should get whatever is being broadcast (right?). For freesat, the epg has been decoded already and is being used to populate EPG data in various PC based PVRs. It is probably only a matter of time before someone patches a normal FTA receiver to show the freesat EPG data, if it hasn't been done already. That would only leave the interactive stuff and as has been pointed out the interactive vid streams are available on seperate channels, really only leaving the text element out. With a future HD PVR official freesat box (one due from Humax this autumn) possibly hitting the £200 mark, getting a DTT tuner, single remote and integrated fav list for 50 quid extra seems like the way to go. Tho of course the humax will be a "real" pvr in the sense of having dual sat tuners, allowing to watch and record at the same time (as opposed to the technomate which only has a single sat and single DTT tuner and apparently doesn't even allow you watch one tuner while the other is recording). So hard to know what to do!

c

Zaphod

@STB - If someone has reverse engineered firmware which is compatible with the Freesat EPG, then there are no legal issues involved. Can you post a link to this firmware or where it was mentioned?

STB

Zaphod... there are many patches for the technomate I gather.

Simple googling of the three key terms I see produces the particular results you are looking for on several sat forums.

I'm not getting involved.....

Zaphod

I can see patched firmware for Premier TPS etc, firmware for viewing ITV-HD and SFA to do with the Freesat EPG.

byte

Can find nothing myself regarding Freesat EPG on TM boxes. Only the addition of the "Freesat-exclusive" ITV HD.

stanley1

Anybody manage to get ITV HD on this box?

TIA

byte

stanley1 wrote: »

Anybody manage to get ITV HD on this box?

TIA

wildebed @ AVForums wrote:

first off, you will need a NDF editor - there's one on the 'Net - look for NDFEditor_Ver158.exe - just google it.


a. tune in your receiver so you get Brit Shorts etc

b. take a copy of NDF

c. goto transponder 11.428 H

d. Make name ITV HD

e. Set up channel

Service ID: 0x290e

Service Type TV

PMT PID [leave blank]

PCR PID: 0x0d49

Video PID: 0x4d49

Audio PID: 0x0d4a

Check Mark AC3

Lastly and most importantly check the box, "Don't Update Video / Audio PIDs"

f. download to box

This is for both Technomate 6000series and Clarketech 5000. I'd presume that after you take a NDF copy from your Clarketech onto USB, you plug usb drive into PC and open the NDF file with that NDF Editor.

stanley1

many thanks, perfect.

yellabelly

stanley1 wrote: »

many thanks, perfect.

Stanley1, please post back if you manage to get ITV HD on the Clarke Tech. I didn't have any joy using this method.

I can however get ITV HD on a SkyStar HD showing "This service is currently unavailable"

stanley1

Google for NDFEditor 158
ctechup 191

use null modem cable.

upload CT channel list to pc using ctechup

alter list with ndf editor, Bytes previous post has settings.

save ndf file and download to CT using ctechup.

Works fine, now to try and get C4 HD.

Cocoon

I am also thinking of buying the Clarke-Tech 5000 HD Combo, anybody know the best place to look?

Benolam

satking.de

Cocoon

stanley1 wrote: »

Google for NDFEditor 158
ctechup 191

use null modem cable.

upload CT channel list to pc using ctechup

alter list with ndf editor, Bytes previous post has settings.

save ndf file and download to CT using ctechup.

Works fine, now to try and get C4 HD.

Thanks for the info Stanley I now have ITV HD up and running, If ya ever
get C4 HD to work let us know how..

givecredit

Cocoon wrote: »

Thanks for the info Stanley I now have ITV HD up and running, If ya ever
get C4 HD to work let us know how..

Have you tried using a dragon cam. I have humax 2000 and receive BBC HD, ITV HD and CH4 HD with no problems. You will need a uk ftv card. But an added bonus is you will also get Five, Five US, Fiver, Sky3 and Setanta Sports news.

stanley1

givecredit wrote: »

Have you tried using a dragon cam. I have humax 2000 and receive BBC HD, ITV HD and CH4 HD with no problems. You will need a uk ftv card. But an added bonus is you will also get Five, Five US, Fiver, Sky3 and Setanta Sports news.

Is that a sky ftv card you have.

byte

stanley1 wrote: »

Is that a sky ftv card you have.

It would be.

givecredit

stanley1 wrote: »

Is that a sky ftv card you have.

Yes. Any active uk sky card, subscription or free to view will work.

Mark#1

Hi Guys,

When these DTT/Freesat combo units claim, "PVR-ready via USB", does that mean that you could connect one to a HDD DVD recorder with a USB port and you'd have full PVR functionality?

Or does it mean PVR functionality only via USB connection to a stand-alone HDD?

The Technomate 6900HD seems to be well respected, but is it available in black? Call me vain, but silver will stand out a mile.

The MVision HD200 Combo also seems to be well respected.

Is either the Technomate or the MVision unit better or worse than the other in any way?

I learned today that RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 are all available via MPEG4 (which I take to mean on DTT?) right now in Dublin, and that it'll be available for all of Ireland from Jan 1 2009 - anyone else heard this?

Surely one of these combo boxes is the tidiest way to get DTT + free satellite TV, for those who want to avoid paying subscription charges for their TV?

The only thing lacking as I see it, is PVR functionality, so if simply connecting to a HDD DVD recorder provided this PVR functionality, that'd be great.


Thanks,

Mark

Phibsboro

It is unlikely that a dvr will work - it is desgined to record an actual tv signal whereas the combo box is outputting data on the usb. So its designed for a standalone HDD, which in fairness will be significantly cheaper than the equivalent sized HDD DVR.

The issue of PVR use highlights the key reason a combo box *isn't* the ideal solution because they aren't offical freesat boxes and so don't have the 7 day epg for the freesat channels so any pvr'ing will like the old VCR days (i.e. manually setting start and end time and date). Until someone does freesat epg on one of these boxes anyways

Two final points to bear in mind - one, some of these boxes don't actually work as PVR's yet, they are only "pvr ready" and need a firmware upgrade to actually implement the pvr functionality. Two, most of these combos have one sat tuner and one DTT tuner so they are not real pvr's in the Sky+ sense - you cannot watch one sat channel while recording another for example. On some models you can't even watch a DTT channel while recording a sat channel.

C

scath

I think DTT-Freesat combo could potentially be looked at by Boxer after they tie up the regulatory license at the end of this month. It makes sense. Freesat is not marketed directly in the Republic of Ireland. Freesat UK will not become a subscription platform because that is BBC's policy on it going foward. Obviously for those that don't want satellite at all costs, Boxer's proposed solution may suffice or be optimised according to consumer take-up.

But for those who are weary of subscription DTT-Freesat is ideal because DTT complimentents Freesat provides as strong a number of free-to-air channels as Sky, including Irish FTA channels without the need for a digital TV or a subscription.
For Boxer, it would get it into satellite homes as the pay channel provider, competing offering for offering with Sky.

The question will be whether Sky's boxes are upgraded to combo boxes that provide Irish FTA DTT also. This may save it carriage costs, while reassigning its subscription slots to FTA as with Freesat Irish non foreign programming channels for the Irish abroad.

Such an alliance between Boxer and Freesat UK would pose a serious challenge to Sky on offering. In addition it would displace Sky though probably the box could always replace each other. Competitively it would enable Boxer to compete head on with Sky.

A digital TV while buying Sky would offer the option of either Sky or Boxer-Freesat.

An alliance by Boxer with Freesat would enable common EPG co-ordination on the combo, sale of more combo boxes that include Freesat, give channels on Freesat UK more reach for advertising thus enabling higher charges for spectrum on the satellite.

The same could be true for cable and Freesat UK. But, unlike DTT, cable has no free-to-air option. So its unlikely cable will combo with anything. Why would anyone buy cable when they can get alot of these channels for a once-off payment. DTT& Satelite makes sense because of programme rights issues, that is unless the UK & Irish govs agree to joint-jurisdictional programme rights, so that programmes must be bought jointly by a broadcaster from each jurisdiction so that both can beam into each others territory without programme rights issues. Also, DTT lacks capacity which is where Satellite and cable excel.

But in the current programme rights situation, combo is ideal. Were that to change, then DTT could be undermined with satellite dominating. Convenience is what is going for DTT but there is one strong factor in DTT's favour and that is the DVB-T or H stick. Until such time as Satellite comes up with a DVB-S2 stick requiring a minute dish, the dvb-t stick, which could be included as standard with laptops and PCs and mobile TV will ensure that DTT always has a market.

A strategic move for Liberty would be for it to buy out Boxer AB and combine or acquire or merge with Communicorp for Irish DTT and also to acquire Eircom thus securing its future in Ireland in radio, TV and telecoms, and buying into Denmark and Sweden and elsewhere.

When Doughty perhaps exit TV3 in a few years, it may well buy in, that is if ITV or Sky don't do so.

Mark#1

Hmmm.

I learned today that the EX88 has no UHF/VHF tuner (just a form of DVB, IIUC?), so connecting an aerial here in Ireland would be pointless anyway.

When you think about it, a lot of the EX88's (and similar product's, I'm sure) whizz-bang TV recording functionality is superfluous on such a unit sold over here, isn't it?

In fact, now I'm quite curious - would an EX88 (or similar) in Ireland really be much more (from a TV recording perspective) than the VHS recorder of old where you had to manually press "record" and "stop" when you were recording something?

If its timer recording and series recording and pause-live-TV functionality was absent, what effectively is it?

Maybe I'm missing something?


Mark

The Cush

Mark#1 wrote: »

I learned today that RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 are all available via MPEG4 (which I take to mean on DTT?) right now in Dublin, and that it'll be available for all of Ireland from Jan 1 2009 - anyone else heard this?
Mark

The free-to-air PSB/RTE multiplex will not officially launch until Autumn 2009 (see a previous post here)
The current DTT (DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard) broadcasts are RTENL engineering test transmisssions only so no guarantee of uninterrupted reception.

From the RTENL website

It is expected that DTT services will be launched to the viewing puvlic in mid to late 2009. RTÉNL will be undertaking live tests, including the broadcasting of television, radio and data services, starting in 2008 and throughout the infrastructure build programme.

Any DTT service received in advance of mid to late 2009 is a test service only.

Mark#1

So in the blurb in the link below, it specifically says:

"This receiver has HD functionality on both Satellite and Terrestrial signals!

BBC HD
ITV HD + all Freesat channels!
RTÉ 1+2
TV3
TG4"

http://www.satworld.ie/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=49

They're effectively stating that this receiver does receive the four Irish channels via MPEG4, which basically means on DTT, yeah?

Have I got that right?

If the unit's ability to receive these four Irish channels should cease, because it transpires what it's currently picking up is just test signals, and that the actual signal will be somehow different and outside the unit's abilities, where would you stand as a consumer?

Goods no longer "as stated", or "fit for purpose"?


Mark

Phibsboro

scath wrote: »

I think DTT-Freesat combo could potentially be looked at by Boxer after they tie up the regulatory license at the end of this month. It makes sense. Freesat is not marketed directly in the Republic of Ireland. Freesat UK will not become a subscription platform because that is BBC's policy on it going foward. Obviously for those that don't want satellite at all costs, Boxer's proposed solution may suffice or be optimised according to consumer take-up.

My gut feel is that Freesat will run a mile from any non-UK targetted boxes. BBC has a remit to do what its doing but obviouisly that remit applies to UK license payers only. From a programming rights situation it is fraught as well. While they have effectively given up trying to limit it to UK only (by going non-encrypted) I think they would be loathe to give official acceptance of that by allowing an official Freesat box for another European country.

C

slegs

The only way there will be a DTT/Freesat combo box produced is if its suitable for the UK market. And this wouldnt make sense as Freesat is an alternative to Freeview in the UK as compared to Ireland where it is complimentary to Irish DTT.

So I think you will never see this. We will always have separate boxes for Freesat and Irish DTT.

Your best possibility is that you will have a TV with a Freesat tuner and a DTT MPEG4 tuner built in like the Panasonic's but these will be execptions.

The Cush

Mark#1 wrote: »

They're effectively stating that this receiver does receive the four Irish channels via MPEG4, which basically means on DTT, yeah?

Have I got that right?

Yes

Mark#1 wrote: »

If the unit's ability to receive these four Irish channels should cease, because it transpires what it's currently picking up is just test signals, and that the actual signal will be somehow different and outside the unit's abilities, where would you stand as a consumer?

Goods no longer "as stated", or "fit for purpose"?
Mark

If this receiver currently receives the DVB-T/MPEG-4 engineering test transmissions it should continue to receive the the free-to-air channels following the official launch. The DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard will not change.
The engineering test transmissions are to to prepare the network for the delivery of digital television to the homes of Ireland.

One thing I notice missing from the spec of the MVision HD200 Combo is MHEG-5 for future interactive services and epg. MHEG-5 is the middleware standard chosen as part of the Minimum Receiver Requirements for DTT in Ireland v1.0, but this will not to affect your ability to view the available channels.
From RTENL

In order to enjoy interactive services, the STB or iDTV must be equipped with MHEG5 middleware.

Mark#1

slegs wrote: »

The only way there will be a DTT/Freesat combo box produced is if its suitable for the UK market. And this wouldnt make sense as Freesat is an alternative to Freeview in the UK as compared to Ireland where it is complimentary to Irish DTT.

So I think you will never see this. We will always have separate boxes for Freesat and Irish DTT.

Your best possibility is that you will have a TV with a Freesat tuner and a DTT MPEG4 tuner built in like the Panasonic's but these will be execptions.

Is this not what the Tecnomate TM-9600HD, MVision HD200 Combo & Clarke Tech 5000HD (and more?) are - combo receivers that receive Freesat (or any "sat"?) and MPEG4 DTT?

That's what we're talking about isn't it?


Mark

Tony

They receive the freesat channels but are not official freesat boxes as they do as yet have full freesat EPG capabilities or auto update if a channel changes frequency.

Mark#1 wrote: »

Is this not what the Tecnomate TM-9600HD, MVision HD200 Combo & Clarke Tech 5000HD (and more?) are - combo receivers that receive Freesat (or any "sat"?) and MPEG4 DTT?

That's what we're talking about isn't it?


Mark