Turning right at roundabouts

mcwhirter

Is there a correct way to turn right on a roundabout? This morning as I entered a roundabout behind a car I was in right lane, and they were in left.
As they entered the roundabout in the left they put on their right indicators, I was in right lane and indicating right too.
I was always taught that when turning right you drive in the right/inner lane.

Mr. Presentable

You are right, they are wrong

Nonoperational

1st exit (usually left turn) at roundabout = left lane and indicate left
2nd exit (usually straight on) left lane, indicate left after you pass the first exit.
3rd or greater exits (usualy right turn) = indicate right, get in right lane and then indicate left after you pass the second exit.

Basic rules of the road that everyone should but don't know!

BrianD3

If it's a "standard" roundabout then they're in the wrong. However there are lots of non standard layouts out there. Some have the 2nd exit where the 3rd one would normally be, 3 lane rounabouts, road markings which overrule the normal rules etc.

_feedback_

BrianD3 wrote: »

If it's a "standard" roundabout then they're in the wrong. However there are lots of non standard layouts out there. Some have the 2nd exit where the 3rd one would normally be, 3 lane rounabouts, road markings which overrule the normal rules etc.

But don't think it would ever be the left lane to turn right?! some cases it's the right lane to go straight through, but think that is all...

Esel

Some drivers who are going straight on indicate right when entering the roundabout, then indicate left for their exit.

mcwhirter

gpf101 wrote: »

1st exit (usually left turn) at roundabout = left lane and indicate left
2nd exit (usually straight on) left lane, indicate left after you pass the first exit.
3rd or greater exits (usualy right turn) = indicate right, get in right lane and then indicate left after you pass the second exit.

Basic rules of the road that everyone should but don't know!

Cheers, I knew I was right, but just wanted to see if anyone agreed as it seems be a fairly common practice here in Ireland to turn right using the left lane.
The person in the car in which it occurred looked fairly young and may have been a learner, but had no L plate on the car and no passenger too.
That is not to say all learners do it though.
It's a dangerous manoeuvre in any case.

smelltheglove

I don't understand how people still don't get the roundabout thing.

You are right and they are wrong, I grew up very close to a roundabout where about 40% of drivers in the left lane where turning right which was not allowed at this roundabout. Left lane straight only, right lane straight and right. I had so many near misses only because I was aware of bad drivers but I saw quite a few accidents there!

They still do it!

bman

gpf101 wrote: »

1st exit (usually left turn) at roundabout = left lane and indicate left
2nd exit (usually straight on) left lane, indicate left after you pass the first exit.
3rd or greater exits (usualy right turn) = indicate right, get in right lane and then indicate left after you pass the second exit.

Basic rules of the road that everyone should but don't know!

You don't know them either so. If the 2nd exit (or any exit for that matter) is past 12 o'clock then you should be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on.

For any turn before or at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane.

In all cases just after the turn off before yours put on your left indicator.

Simple.

BrianD3

elviscostello wrote: »

But don't think it would ever be the left lane to turn right?! some cases it's the right lane to go straight through, but think that is all...

If it was a two lane entry and exit and the 2nd exit was past 12 clock then road markings may allow you to "turn right" from the left lane. I'm pretty sure I've seen this layout somewhere.

Even in the absence of road markings if you take a 2nd exit which is past 12 o clock from the left lane you may be in the right. See Alun's post re: the "12 o'clock rule".

Alun

bman wrote: »

You don't know them either so. If the 2nd exit (or any exit for that matter) is past 12 o'clock then you should be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on.

For any turn before or at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane.

In all cases just after the turn off before yours put on your left indicator.

Simple.

There is no mention of this oft-quoted "12 o'clock rule" anywhere in the section on roundabout usage in the Rules of the Road.

_feedback_

BrianD3 wrote: »

If it was a two lane entry and exit and the 2nd exit was past 12 clock then road markings may allow you to "turn right" from the left lane. I'm pretty sure I've seen this layout somewhere.

Even in the absence of road markings if you take a 2nd exit which is past 12 o clock from the left lane you may be in the right. See Alun's post re: the "12 o'clock rule".

Yeah I saw the other post mentioning that alright ... it's not in my understanding of roundabouts ... and have certainly never seen it.

EDIT: but Aluns post seems to contradict your theory?

Any examples of this type of scenario anyone?!

Quint

smelltheglove wrote: »

I don't understand how people still don't get the roundabout thing.

You are right and they are wrong, I grew up very close to a roundabout where about 40% of drivers in the left lane where turning right which was not allowed at this roundabout. Left lane straight only, right lane straight and right. I had so many near misses only because I was aware of bad drivers but I saw quite a few accidents there!

They still do it!

This is the thing that annoys me more than anything on the road! Nothing worst than going straight through (2 lanes) a roundabout and the idiot on your left drive right across you. Seriously dangerous, and happens so often.

Esel

Quint wrote: »

This is the thing that annoys me more than anything on the road! Nothing worst than going straight through (2 lanes) a roundabout and the idiot on your left drive right across you. Seriously dangerous, and happens so often.

In the vast majority of scenarios, you should be in the left lane to go straight ahead!

bman

Alun wrote: »

There is no mention of this oft-quoted "12 o'clock rule" anywhere in the section on roundabout usage in the Rules of the Road.

elviscostello wrote: »

Yeah I saw the other post mentioning that alright ... it's not in my understanding of roundabouts ... and have certainly never seen it.

EDIT: but Aluns post seems to contradict your theory?

Any examples of this type of scenario anyone?!

Extracts from rules of the road.

Straight ahead = 12 o'clock
Taking any later exits = after 12 o'clock

mcwhirter

esel wrote: »

In the vast majority of scenarios, you should be in the left lane to go straight ahead!

That depends, on a dual carriageway, you can use both lanes unless there are markings on road.

Alun

bman wrote: »

Straight ahead = 12 o'clock

Not necessarily. There are plenty of examples of otherwise normal 4 junction roundabouts where 'straight ahead' is actually some considerable way to the left or right of 12 o'clock. That's the problem with oversimplifications, there's always the exception that disproves the rule.

My own take on this is that, as they usually do in the UK, any roundabout that deviates from the normal 4 exit 'ideal' layout and that has more than one lane at the entrance should have lane markings indicating the correct lane usage. They do that here also sometimes, but seem to be able to even get something that simple glaringly wrong.

Steve

Roundabouts are strange places - there are no actual rules governing their use except that you must turn left when entering.
General rules of the road apply of course and these must be applied depending on the situation and road markings / signs at any particular roundabout.

In the example (assuming a straightforward 4-way roundabout with exits at (1) 9 o'clock, (2)12 o'clock and (3) 3 o'clock and two marked lanes on the roundabout itself)
Car A: enters in the left lane and intends to take exit 3
Car B: enters in the right lane and intends to take exit 2.

By the time they reach exit 2, they need to cross paths.
If you apply rules regarding lane changes then car B must yield to car A and not take his exit.
If you apply "yield to traffic on your right" than car A must yield and let car B take his exit.
Which is correct?

Mellor

bman wrote: »

Extracts from rules of the road.

Straight ahead = 12 o'clock
Taking any later exits = after 12 o'clock

Did you even read the last line of the link you posted????


Thats the general rule, and applys to most roundabouts. But there are exceptions, where volume of traffic on certain routes (straight through - right etc) is much heavier and therefore road markings contravene the general rule.
Nobody is disagree with what the general case is, just pointing out that there are exceptions, the fact that you are arguing this really calls into question your expierence on the road (can you honestl say you never seen road markings that coontravene the general rule), or you jsut want to argue for the fun of it.

Quint

esel wrote: »

In the vast majority of scenarios, you should be in the left lane to go straight ahead!

You can be in either lane if it's a 2 lane road. And I don't think there's any reason to be in the left lane if you're going right around.

_feedback_

bman wrote: »

Extracts from rules of the road.

Straight ahead = 12 o'clock
Taking any later exits = after 12 o'clock

I realise what is meant by 12 o'clock... thanks.

But the extract that you have taken doesn't mention anything about taking the right lane (in normal lane setup) if the 2nd exit is past '12 o'clock'.

Or am I missing something in your link?

daveharnett

mcwhirter wrote: »

Cheers, I knew I was right, but just wanted to see if anyone agreed as it seems be a fairly common practice here in Ireland to turn right using the left lane.

Common practice on Irish roundabouts seems to be to drive where you like and hope for the best.

mcwhirter wrote: »

The person in the car in which it occurred looked fairly young and may have been a learner, but had no L plate on the car and no passenger too.
That is not to say all learners do it though.

In my experience, learner drivers are actually more likely to use roundabouts correctly. The number of more experienced drivers who either don't know how or don't bother to use them correctly is frightening.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

This is my biggest pet hate......why cant people learn how to use roundabouts properly?! :mad:

Nonoperational

bman wrote: »

You don't know them either so. If the 2nd exit (or any exit for that matter) is past 12 o'clock then you should be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on.

For any turn before or at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane.

In all cases just after the turn off before yours put on your left indicator.

Simple.

:rolleyes:
I was giving the general rule of using a typical roundabout. Exceptions to everything but the standard Irish roundabout setup is a 4 exit system where straight on is the second exit. The most common annoyance is people exiting after the 2nd exit yet staying in the left lane.

fricatus

esel wrote: »

Some drivers who are going straight on indicate right when entering the roundabout, then indicate left for their exit.

Nobody believes me when I say this, but I remember reading my mother's Rules of the Road when I was little, and the procedure for a straight-on manoeuvre was to be in the left lane, however indicate right, until you'd passed the first exit, at which point you would indicate left. I see drivers doing this, and they're mainly older people.

I think that was changed in subsequent versions, but I remember learning to drive over in England and I told my instructor that this was the advice when driving in Ireland. His reaction was half disbelief, half "that's nuts - indicating right when going straight on".

However as I recall, the logic was that you would be indicating right if staying on the roundabout, and left when about to exit. Technically, between entry and passing the first exit, you are sort of going around to the right...

jtbub15

bman wrote: »

You don't know them either so. If the 2nd exit (or any exit for that matter) is past 12 o'clock then you should be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on.

For any turn before or at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane.

In all cases just after the turn off before yours put on your left indicator.

Simple.

12 o'clock??? where did you buy your license?

tytlak

In my experience, learner drivers are actually more likely to use roundabouts correctly. The number of more experienced drivers who either don't know how or don't bother to use them correctly is frightening.[/quote]


actually you are very right!! the worst ones seems to be without L stickers who drives a lot like van or taxi drivers. The more you drive, the less likely you are going to use indicators on the roundabouts. When I started to drive in Ireland I was stunned by the fact that lots of drivers do not use indicators on the roundabouts. But what to expect if even garda does not follow these rules!!! drove a few times behind a garda car....an even not a single one turned indicators on the roundabout

I wonder where does this habit come from?

bman

Alun wrote: »

Not necessarily. There are plenty of examples of otherwise normal 4 junction roundabouts where 'straight ahead' is actually some considerable way to the left or right of 12 o'clock. That's the problem with oversimplifications, there's always the exception that disproves the rule.

My own take on this is that, as they usually do in the UK, any roundabout that deviates from the normal 4 exit 'ideal' layout and that has more than one lane at the entrance should have lane markings indicating the correct lane usage. They do that here also sometimes, but seem to be able to even get something that simple glaringly wrong.

When coming to a roundabout 12 o'clock is straight ahead. Anything else is not.

I agree that markings should be there for roundabouts that deviate from the normal 4 exit layout but it isn't always feasible (worth spending the money). Where there are no markings the rules clearly state what lane you should be in.

Mellor wrote: »

Did you even read the last line of the link you posted????


Thats the general rule, and applys to most roundabouts. But there are exceptions, where volume of traffic on certain routes (straight through - right etc) is much heavier and therefore road markings contravene the general rule.
Nobody is disagree with what the general case is, just pointing out that there are exceptions, the fact that you are arguing this really calls into question your expierence on the road (can you honestl say you never seen road markings that coontravene the general rule), or you jsut want to argue for the fun of it.

I was just assuming that everyone understands that if there's road markings then you follow them. I'm not trying to suggest you ignore road markings. The diagrams I posted show you what to do when there are no road markings.

elviscostello wrote: »

I realise what is meant by 12 o'clock... thanks.

But the extract that you have taken doesn't mention anything about taking the right lane (in normal lane setup) if the 2nd exit is past '12 o'clock'.

Or am I missing something in your link?

Look again. It never mentions a "2nd exit". It only mentions straight ahead.

jtbub15 wrote: »

12 o'clock??? where did you buy your license?

What is it that you find hard to understand about "12 o'clock???"? You enter the roundabout at 6 o'clock. If going straight ahead you are exiting at 12 o'clock. Hope that's easy enough for you to grasp.

jtbub15

ok smart arse.... what my point was that the "12 oclock" thing is not in driving tests.

bman

jtbub15 wrote: »

ok smart arse.... what my point was that the "12 oclock" thing is not in driving tests.

You were the one to start with the smart arse stuff:

jtbub15 wrote: »

where did you buy your license?

Doesn't have to be in the driving test. It's the easiest way to describe roundabouts in my mind. My point is still valid regardless of how you describe it.

Alun

bman wrote: »

When coming to a roundabout 12 o'clock is straight ahead. Anything else is not.

Right, so you're saying that if you were coming up to a roundabout where the 'straight ahead' exit was at, say, 190 degrees to the entrance, you'd indicate to go right, would you?

jtbub15

Alun wrote: »

Right, so you're saying that if you were coming up to a roundabout where the 'straight ahead' exit was at, say, 190 degrees to the entrance, you'd indicate to go right, would you?

Arent you suppose to indicate right onto the roundabout anyway??

_feedback_

bman wrote: »

Look again. It never mentions a "2nd exit". It only mentions straight ahead.

However, it never mentions '12 o'clock'.

It says under the heading of 'going straight'

Rules of the road wrote:

Stay in the left-hand lane, but do not indicate "left" until you have passed the first exit. Where conditions dictate otherwise, you may follow the course shown by the broken red line.

The other course is where Gardai or markings dictate.

Where does 12 o'clock come in to it?

Vertakill

There's a very good reason why, in your driving test, the instructor refers to roundabout turn offs as '1st, 2nd, 3rd... exit'. This is so we don't get this 12 o clock shenanigans that may confuse people.

However there are some roundabouts that, when you exit them, turn off into 2 lanes. These are the roundabouts that tend to confuse idiots.

For example, the roundabout at Liffey Valley shopping centre (near the trailer park boys, that leads to the N4). You start off in 2 lanes as you join the roundabout, yet if you take the 3rd exit, it exits into 3 lanes. This is where you get the idiots that coast across multiple lanes disregarding other drives. The same people who probably joined the roundabout from the wrong lane also.

peasant

Rules of the road

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/ROTR_2007.pdf

pages 107 - 111

daveharnett

tytlak wrote: »

actually you are very right!! the worst ones seems to be without L stickers who drives a lot like van or taxi drivers. The more you drive, the less likely you are going to use indicators on the roundabouts. When I started to drive in Ireland I was stunned by the fact that lots of drivers do not use indicators on the roundabouts. But what to expect if even garda does not follow these rules!!! drove a few times behind a garda car....an even not a single one turned indicators on the roundabout

I wonder where does this habit come from?

With regard to people not indicating when leaving roundabouts, I think it's just laziness. Because people don't need to do it to avoid an accident, they don't bother. They just don't consider other people who are trying to enter the roundabout from subsequent entry points.

bman

elviscostello wrote: »

However, it never mentions '12 o'clock'.

It says under the heading of 'going straight'



The other course is where Gardai or markings dictate.

Where does 12 o'clock come in to it?

Right, 12 o'clock seems to be confusing people around here (although I'm not sure why). For all my posts replace 12 o'clock with straight ahead if it makes it easier to understand. I am not getting into a debate on how to label turns on a roundabout. I am debating the lane you should be in when going around the roundabout.

Alun wrote: »

Right, so you're saying that if you were coming up to a roundabout where the 'straight ahead' exit was at, say, 190 degrees to the entrance, you'd indicate to go right, would you?

Yep. That's the law.

Mitch Connor

jtbub15 wrote: »

Arent you suppose to indicate right onto the roundabout anyway??

No.

Not unless you are going right off the roundabout.

If you are going left off the round about, why would you indicate right?

If you are going straight through a roundabout, why would you indicate right?

jtbub15

peasant wrote: »

Rules of the road

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/ROTR_2007.pdf

pages 107 - 111

Thats good to refresh the memory... it clears up a couple of things to me that I was wrong on...thank you!!!:D:D

Vertakill

Sorry, wasn't trying to nitpick bman.

Reason I mentioned it is that depending on the roundabout, 12 o clock may actually be your 1st exit - where you would need to be in the left lane.
Whereas on your usual roundabout, 12 o clock is mostly your 2nd exit.

_feedback_

bman wrote: »

Right, 12 o'clock seems to be confusing people around here (although I'm not sure why). For all my posts replace 12 o'clock with straight ahead if it makes it easier to understand. I am not getting into a debate on how to label turns on a roundabout. I am debating the lane you should be in when going around the roundabout.

Sorry, but your whole point was based on the 12 o clock thing.

So now you're saying that if going straight ahead, you should be in the right lane?

Mitch Connor

elviscostello wrote: »

Sorry, but your whole point was based on the 12 o clock thing.

So now you're saying that if going straight ahead, you should be in the right lane?

12 o'clock IS straight ahead. they are the same thing.

Regardless, I thought you were to be in left hand lane if going straight (and its the second exit) and right only if it was a two lane exit or road markings dictated otherwise.

_feedback_

Tauren wrote: »

12 o'clock IS straight ahead. they are the same thing.

Regardless, I thought you were to be in left hand lane if going straight (and its the second exit) and right only if it was a two lane exit or road markings dictated otherwise.

I know what 12 o'clock was meant as .....

Have a look at this post and you'll see why I'm asking again:

bman wrote: »

You don't know them either so. If the 2nd exit (or any exit for that matter) is past 12 o'clock then you should be in the right hand lane with your right indicator on.

For any turn before or at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane.

In all cases just after the turn off before yours put on your left indicator.

Simple.

jtbub15

But isnt it coming up to 3 o'clock!!!

_feedback_

jtbub15 wrote: »

But isnt it coming up to 3 o'clock!!!

bman

Vertakill wrote: »

Sorry, wasn't trying to nitpick bman.

No prob

elviscostello wrote: »

Sorry, but your whole point was based on the 12 o clock thing.

So now you're saying that if going straight ahead, you should be in the right lane?

Read my posts again. If you are going straight ahead (12 o'clock), or any turn off before straight ahead, you're supposed to be in the left lane. You're supposed to be in the right lane for anything after straight ahead.

FocusIreland

gpf101 wrote: »

1st exit (usually left turn) at roundabout = left lane and indicate left
2nd exit (usually straight on) left lane, indicate left after you pass the first exit.
3rd or greater exits (usualy right turn) = indicate right, get in right lane and then indicate left after you pass the second exit.

Basic rules of the road that everyone should but don't know!

If u go to Naas from Dublin side and heading to Sallins, u will see at the roundabout u have to stay on the LEFT line for the RIGHT turn!!! the sign is on the road telling u stay in the left line for take right to sallins.:rolleyes:
same roundabout, if u go to johnstown from sallins saide, u have to stay on the RIGHT for a LEFT turn.

bman

elviscostello wrote: »

I know what 12 o'clock was meant as .....

Have a look at this post and you'll see why I'm asking again:

Here we go. You have another look at that post.

/ waits for penny to drop

Saruman

Roundabouts are a hatred of mine, well i like them fine but having to put up with the muppetry of others... Auburn roundabout (blanch) heading from the auburn road anyone?

I also hate the way when people make roundabouts they put in two approach lanes when not only is there only room for one vehicle safely in the lanes and on the roundabout, there is also only left, straight ahead and back the way you came.

Dirty_Diesel

peasant wrote: »

Rules of the road

http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/ROTR_2007.pdf

pages 107 - 111

It used be much easier with the old system,

When taking 1st or 2nd exit use left lane. 3rd or consecutive exit use the right lane.

_feedback_

bman wrote: »

Here we go. You have another look at that post.

/ waits for penny to drop

There's no need to be smart. Can you point out in my attachment where it mentions anything about your theory?

This is the most sensible explanation on the thread:

Dirty_Diesel wrote: »

When taking 1st or 2nd exit use left lane. 3rd or consecutive exit use the right lane.