Dunne turns down Munroe chance

sston

According to last weeks boxing news Dunne turned down the chance to challenge Rendall Munroe in England in September. Bit dissapointing this, I would have thought Bernard would have jumped at the chance becasue Frank Maloney said there was no way Munroe would come to Ireland.

They mentioned on RTE last time that Dunne also turned down a world title chance against Cabellero, you have to wonder about his confidence if he's turning down chances that most fighters would give their right arms for.

Maybe he has something else in mind but the mandatory situation with the EBU doesn't look good either. Kiko Martinez is next up as mandatory and that's likely to take place before the end of the year. That would mean it would be June of next year before Bernard gets a shot at his old title (with the chance that if Peters won the purse bids he would get home advantage). ven more worrying is the fact that the former European chapm at bantam, Maladrottu has jumped into the super bantamweight ratings ahead of Dunne so if he's the next mandatory it would mean Dunne possibly having to wait until 2010 for a mandatory shot!

Maybe the fact that they're turning down the shot means Peters and DUnne have something else up their sleeves. I hope so, Dunne ain't getting any younger and he needs to get a move on now.

alanceltic

sston wrote: »

According to last weeks boxing news

And what boxing news is that exactly, show us the article or its just bar stool chat. Its well known that maloney is contracted to sky whilst peters is closely tied with RTE ,everyone understands this but i think you are stretching your analysis here. Munroe gets spanked by Dunne if they ever match up.

sston

alanceltic wrote: »

And what boxing news is that exactly, show us the article or its just bar stool chat. Its well known that maloney is contracted to sky whilst peters is closely tied with RTE ,everyone understands this but i think you are stretching your analysis here. Munroe gets spanked by Dunne if they ever match up.

er "boxing news" the magazine! They don't have it online but there was a bit about it in the first few pages of last weeks mag saying that Maloney had offered the fight to Dunne. Maloney also sent out a press release a few weeks back about the fight and the silence from this side of the water was deafening. I agree that it's probably a difficult fight to make given the politics but if Dunne was confident of beating Munrie then surely he would travel to do so if that was the only way the fight could be made.

Incidentally Nigel Wright also had a bit in it moaning how he was robbed against McCloskey and how he wouldn't travel to fight again. I thought the scoring was far too one sided but for me McCloskey was a close but definite winner.

03mcgs0

sston wrote: »

Incidentally Nigel Wright also had a bit in it moaning how he was robbed against McCloskey and how he wouldn't travel to fight again. I thought the scoring was far too one sided but for me McCloskey was a close but definite winner.

I wouldn't listen to Nigel Wright, he's always going to say that. It should have been closer but Mc Cluskey still would have won. I wish Mc Cluskey stuck to his guns and stayed with what he is good at and not getting involved in brawls

carlos30

i have to agree with the first poster , I follow the boxing scene a lot and i work a lot in UK , which gives me a chance to go to various boxing clubs and talk to people in the game.

its well known in the uk , that dunne was offered to fight munroe in uk and he turned it down , you can say what u want about both promoters with different tv stations to obey but this is true , Peters point about stations promoting the fight was true but he has not told you that dunne has turned down at least two top fights away from home

it sounds like to me Dunne is not confident fighting any decent boxers without home advantage , by decent i mean , Kiko , Munroe and callbero

I am stunned that the Bernard Dunne hype machine is starting to excel again , he is fighting these no hopers , and like the last time , we will have sit through another 2 or 3 of these wasters before he fights anyone decent

I dont fancy him agst munroe , and defo not agst kiko , i just think Kiko has his number which happens in boxing , you can fight with all the strategies you want but when a boxer has your number theres nowt you can do , bit like cotto v margioto where as I would put it margioto had his number .

Also Boxing News is by far the Best boxing magazine out there , its gives up to date factual information and is better then those over prices Yank Magazines that just report on the big commercial fights , and the fact that golden boy promotions now owns the Ring magazine publication make back this point up

Big Ears

carlos30 wrote: »

Peters point about stations promoting the fight was true but he has not told you that dunne has turned down at least two top fights away from home

Yes he did, they told us about the Caballero fight directly after the Marchiano fight. Dunne was offered a bout against Caballero before the Marchiano fight in Panama.

So at that point in time he had only had one fight since his loss, it simply doesn't make sense to go fight Caballero in Panama where if he manages to not get knocked out(most likely result) and outboxes Celestino he's still going to get done on the cards. That fight was a hiding to nothing and hence a 42 year-old unknown Super-Bantamweight from Columbia with a padded record has come in, in Dunne's place.
Which indicates there wasn't likely to be much money in that bout anyway.

It's clear to me now that Dunne will only ever get a fight with Munroe in the UK, where it will probably generate 1/5 of the money it would here.
However we don't know what Maloney offered Peters.
It might have been £15,000 with options on Dunne should he win, who knows ?

If it was a deal as poor as something as that they'd be right to turn it down. Peters shouldn't be going over there for less than £30,000/€40,000 and no options on Dunne should he win. An immediate rematch clause if Munroe loses would be acceptable once it states that the rematch would take place over here.

If Maloney can't offer a deal of that qualify then Peters and Dunne should simply go another route because it just wouldn't be worth it. Who knows maybe Maloney has offered a deal of that quality(extremely unlikely), after all this is just speculation.

sston

Big Ears wrote: »

Yes he did, they told us about the Caballero fight directly after the Marchiano fight. Dunne was offered a bout against Caballero before the Marchiano fight in Panama.

So at that point in time he had only had one fight since his loss, it simply doesn't make sense to go fight Caballero in Panama where if he manages to not get knocked out(most likely result) and outboxes Celestino he's still going to get done on the cards. That fight was a hiding to nothing and hence a 42 year-old unknown Super-Bantamweight from Columbia with a padded record has come in, in Dunne's place.
Which indicates there wasn't likely to be much money in that bout anyway.

It's clear to me now that Dunne will only ever get a fight with Munroe in the UK, where it will probably generate 1/5 of the money it would here.
However we don't know what Maloney offered Peters.
It might have been £15,000 with options on Dunne should he win, who knows ?

If it was a deal as poor as something as that they'd be right to turn it down. Peters shouldn't be going over there for less than £30,000/€40,000 and no options on Dunne should he win. An immediate rematch clause if Munroe loses would be acceptable once it states that the rematch would take place over here.

If Maloney can't offer a deal of that qualify then Peters and Dunne should simply go another route because it just wouldn't be worth it. Who knows maybe Maloney has offered a deal of that quality(extremely unlikely), after all this is just speculation.

Most of that makes sense big ears but do we know for sure the offer for Cabellero was in Panama and not Dublin? From the way Mick Dowling phrased it I got the impression that it would have taken place in Dublin. Think he said something along the lines of "what a night that would have been in Dublin".

Caballero does not fight at home much and has never been afraid to go on the road. I'm sure his team would have seen the kind of buzz Dunne has generated over here and thought that they could get well paid in Dublin for what let's be honest would appear to them have been a straight forward defence.

As it is he's defending in September against this guy: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=30638&cat=boxer

He's a 42 year old who has been KO'd in all 7 of his defeats and most of the by very average fighters too. Can't believe the WBA are sanctioning this. If he was fighting Dunne there'd be uproar so how he's getting a world title shot is beyond me.

Anyway the point is they're probably paying him peanuts and CAballero may not be getting too much himself. I don't think they would have looked to bring Dunne to Panama when they can get away with defending against this guy but had the pay day to come to DUblin been good enough I'm sure they'd have jumped at it.

By the way I think he's the weakest of the 122 champs, ok he's very awkward and tall and can punch but he's been at the weight for a long time now and at nearly 6 foot it must be starting to take it's toll. 122 in gerneral is probably one of the strongest weights in boxing right now when you look at the 4 major titleholders.

Hero Of College

This tells you all you need to know about Bernard Dunne. He is a money grubbing Punk who doesn't really care about the boxing game, just wants to cash out with a few more of his BS shows down the Depot until people forget the KIKO fight. He's probably looking for Munroe to lose to Kiko and when Kiko can't make weight anymore, then fight for a vacant title against Munroe in Dublin.

Big Ears

sston wrote: »

Most of that makes sense big ears but do we know for sure the offer for Cabellero was in Panama and not Dublin? From the way Mick Dowling phrased it I got the impression that it would have taken place in Dublin. Think he said something along the lines of "what a night that would have been in Dublin".

Caballero does not fight at home much and has never been afraid to go on the road. I'm sure his team would have seen the kind of buzz Dunne has generated over here and thought that they could get well paid in Dublin for what let's be honest would appear to them have been a straight forward defence.

As it is he's defending in September against this guy: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=30638&cat=boxer

He's a 42 year old who has been KO'd in all 7 of his defeats and most of the by very average fighters too. Can't believe the WBA are sanctioning this. If he was fighting Dunne there'd be uproar so how he's getting a world title shot is beyond me.

Anyway the point is they're probably paying him peanuts and CAballero may not be getting too much himself. I don't think they would have looked to bring Dunne to Panama when they can get away with defending against this guy but had the pay day to come to DUblin been good enough I'm sure they'd have jumped at it.

By the way I think he's the weakest of the 122 champs, ok he's very awkward and tall and can punch but he's been at the weight for a long time now and at nearly 6 foot it must be starting to take it's toll. 122 in gerneral is probably one of the strongest weights in boxing right now when you look at the 4 major titleholders.

Okay I may have been presumptuous about the fight being in Panama like it is now. They probably could have got the fight in Dublin if they put the money into it, however Peters is a smart man and knows that Dunne would have probably lost and what would be the point in paying big money to do that ?

They quite possibly could have got the fight in the US on the undercard of a bigger fight with Dunne getting okay-ish money(less than he'd get for a European title fight at home) but not really enough to sacrifice another defeat and away from the Irish tv public.

This will be Caballero's 4th title fight out of 8th at home, but all the ones in Panama were against fighters from South or central America who wouldn't have to money the entice him to fight in their country.


You are right about Caballero though, the man is severally overated and not quite what he's cracked up to be, if not for Dunne's dodgy chin seeming as dodgy as it is I would fancy him against the eerily tall Caballero.
I would love if the Molitor v Caballero fight is eventually made as I feel the slick Canadian could make him look quite foolish despite the huge size difference and Vasquez would destroy Caballero.


Anyway all I'm saying is this didn't make either financial or fighting sense for Dunne. It seems like some people here would love for Dunne to take on top guys like Caballero for little money and when he gets stopped go 'see I told you he was useless', not you by the way as you've looked at this objectively.

The Munroe fight makes fighting sense but I doubt(at the moment) Maloney is making it financial sense. Afterall Munroe isn't exactly being tested at the moment either is he ?, if Maloney wanted a tough money making fight he'd fight Martinez now rather than wait 2/3 months. Or if he didn't want that he could still have gotten Matthew Marsh easily enough or if they were ambitious try to entice the Italian Simeone Maludrottu over again(he fought Napa and Kelly in the UK) for a fight that would be pretty big.

But instead he looked at getting Sean Hughes and when that didn't work out they decided to take on the lowly regarded Armenian(Arsen Matirosian) with the high WBA ranking.

I can't really give out about Maloney either, why take unnecessary risks with your fighter by putting him in with a guy like Dunne ?, afterall a Dunne fight would probably cost Maloney money rather than make him money considering Munroe can only fill out leisure centres with the help of big ticket sellers on the undercard.

The only reason a Munroe v Dunne fight would be anywhere better than a Leisure centre is because Irish fans would come to support Dunne, which is kind of ironic considering Maloney is so set against having it in Ireland.

sligobhoy67

great posts on this subject Big Ears (as usual!!)

How in the name of jesus can Elvis Mejia get a shot at the WBA title - boxrec are showing aas it being sanctioned - pretty embrassing

Hero Of College

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

great posts on this subject Big Ears (as usual!!)

How in the name of jesus can Elvis Mejia get a shot at the WBA title - boxrec are showing aas it being sanctioned - pretty embrassing

Well the WBA have a record of allowing any auld bum to fight for their titles- Matt Sketon would be an example.

As it happens lets keep on topic: what about Bernard Bum...turning down this title shot...disgusting. I hope the Irish sports writers give him hell for this.

Big Ears

Hero Of College wrote: »

As it happens lets keep on topic: what about Bernard Bum...turning down this title shot...disgusting. I hope the Irish sports writers give him hell for this.

Is it ?, what was the deal Maloney offered him ?

Hero Of College

SSTON wrote:

According to last weeks boxing news Dunne turned down the chance to challenge Rendall Munroe in England in September

Bernard Bum turned down a title shot. What did you think he would be challenging Munroe for?

cowzerp

Bernard is an entertainer and although he lacks the power and chin to be truly world class he's still a high level fighter-the way some people go on here you would think dunne only fought at novice college level, lay off.

Big Ears

Hero Of College wrote: »

Bernard Bum turned down a title shot. What did you think he would be challenging Munroe for?

Maybe €40,000, no options should he win and at worst an immediate rematch in Ireland.

btw, Dunne doesn't rhyme with Bum. Thought I'd let you know

cowzerp wrote: »

Bernard is an entertainer and although he lacks the power and chin to be truly world class he's still a high level fighter-the way some people go on here you would think dunne only fought at novice college level, lay off.

+1

Hero Of College

Big Ears wrote: »

Maybe €40,000, no options should he win and at worst an immediate rematch in Ireland.

Thats a lot of money for a bum challenging for an EBU title at 122. Like I said, the little sh!t has probably gotten too comfortable with his mortgage payments being made by an unsuspecting audience who don't know just how badly they are being fleeced, or who don't care for that matter. Bernard is not a real fighter cos he won't go on the road anymore.

BigEars wrote:

btw, Dunne doesn't rhyme with Bum. Thought I'd let you know

Thanks for affording me the opportunity to show you the importance of a College Education. Strictly speaking, Bum does not Rhyme with Dunne, within the nursery-rhyme scheme of things. However you will note the use of two mechanisms to create a rhyming effect :-

1. Alliteration and Alliterative VERSE:-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse In prosody, alliterative verse is a form of verse that uses alliteration as the principal structuring device to unify lines of poetry, as opposed to other devices such as rhyme.

2. Assonance:- the use of the rhyming effect of the vowels, you could regard this as alliteration for vowels, example "Bum and Dunne"

If My explanation is too long winded, please allow Michael Caine and Julie Walters to explain it for you, in this clip taken from the movie "Educating Rita". For the purposes of todays lesson, we will call it "Educating Big Ears"...

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

I love this clip, because it was filmed on the grounds of Trinity College, where I enjoyed some of my best times as a Student. Had some decent training sessions down there too. Not bad for a "Novice Fighter"

BigEars wrote:

+1

See above. You can take the mick all you want, but I will reply in kind and teach you a thing or two while I am at it. Bernard Bum has performed at novice level too- most recently in his last European Title fight. Lets have a look at Bernard Bums last novice fight gentlemen.....

...and this bum wants "OPTIONS"??? No chance Bumster.:pac:

cowzerp

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thats a lot of money for a bum

Had some decent training sessions down there too. Not bad for a "Novice Fighter"

in relation to the money, dunne was the number 1 fighter at his weight division in the world aking money for him and his promoter, thats why he should fight in ireland and why he should earn top dollar.

Whats not bad?

you boxed a few times as a novice, fair play to ya, it takes balls to get in there at all, dont compare novice college boxing to bernard who was winning real national titles from about 11 years old and every year onwards till he turned pro, even if he never won a pro fight he would be considered a great irish boxer, you are not even a blip on the boxing radar. nothing personal, just you where a college boxer-that is novice.

Hero Of College

cowzerp wrote: »

in relation to the money, dunne was the number 1 fighter at his weight division in the world aking money for him and his promoter, thats why he should fight in ireland and why he should earn top dollar.

Whats not bad?

you boxed a few times as a novice, fair play to ya, it takes balls to get in there at all, dont compare novice college boxing to bernard who was winning real national titles from about 11 years old and every year onwards till he turned pro, even if he never won a pro fight he would be considered a great irish boxer, you are not even a blip on the boxing radar. nothing personal, just you where a college boxer-that is novice.

Listen, I am just being honest about the whole thing. Personally, I agree, I am a nobody, but so, when you get right down to it, is Bernard. When the Olympics are over, and the boys are turning pro, he's going to be even less important.

As a Sub-Featherweight fighter, Bernard is already small potatoes. If Maloney offered him less than he usually gets, its for 2 reasons:-

1. Bernard isn't a draw outside of his hometown. He's like an Irish version of Joey Gamache- just not as good. He's a moderately skilled, chinny, nonpunching hometown fighter who is basically unknown elsewhere. Thats hardly conducive to big paydays.

2. He is not a champion. That also means he takes a paycut.

The guy is just not a real fighter anymore. He wants the easiest, fattest best paying route. If he had gone to England and beaten Munroe on the short money and taken the title home I would have given him all the respect.

In my opinion, it is the height of bad boxing manners to turn down a title shot. Amir Khan would be right to turn one down, thats the exception to the rule. But Dunne has won the European title before and should not be turning down a chance to get it back. In effect, this is the 2nd time he has done it.

I can excuse the first, but not the second.

Big Ears

Hero Of College wrote: »

Thanks for affording me the opportunity to show you the importance of a College Education. Strictly speaking, Bum does not Rhyme with Dunne, within the nursery-rhyme scheme of things. However you will note the use of two mechanisms to create a rhyming effect :-

1. Alliteration and Alliterative VERSE:-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse In prosody, alliterative verse is a form of verse that uses alliteration as the principal structuring device to unify lines of poetry, as opposed to other devices such as rhyme.

2. Assonance:- the use of the rhyming effect of the vowels, you could regard this as alliteration for vowels, example "Bum and Dunne"

You don't need a College Education to know what alliteration and assonance are, you're expected to know what they are at leaving cert level. Now maybe it took you a little longer, I don't know.

But it just seemed a little out of character to you to use them over your usual method of rhyming which has given us some crackers such as 'Smelly Kelly' and replacing the word Bunce with Dunce.......inspiring stuff.


The guy is just not a real fighter anymore. He wants the easiest, fattest best paying route. If he had gone to England and beaten Munroe on the short money and taken the title home I would have given him all the respect.

In my opinion, it is the height of bad boxing manners to turn down a title shot. Amir Khan would be right to turn one down, thats the exception to the rule. But Dunne has won the European title before and should not be turning down a chance to get it back. In effect, this is the 2nd time he has done it.

Hero Of College wrote: »

I can excuse the first, but not the second.

So you think an offer of €8,000, options on Dunne's next 6 fights which would take place in Leisure centres in England and an immediate rematch should he win in England, with the original fight in England would be aq fair offer for Dunne ?

Professional boxing is a business, it's not always as simple as if you're offered a title shot you take it. John Duddy's team turned down $1,000,000 to fight Jermaine Taylor for the Middleweight Championship of the World.

Fall_Guy

Hero Of College wrote: »

He's a moderately skilled, chinny, nonpunching hometown fighter who is basically unknown elsewhere. Thats hardly conducive to big paydays.

I think even Dunne's biggest detractors would argue this point. If there's one thing that dunne has going for him it's that he is a very skillful fighter. I think you're not only being overly harsh on the man (as a person and a fighter to be honest) but are doinf it in a manner that makes you look extremely rude for someone who's commenting on a fighter showing "the height of bad boxing manners".

It's not exactly good manners to give people a lecture on literary techniques for the sake of trying to show off your college education.

Regarding Dunne, the man is entitled to maximise the money that he can make before his career ends. I for one don't hold that against him. And to be fair, he is FAR from a nobody. I'm not pushed if he's not that well known in other parts of the world, in Ireland he's known to most and has greatly increased the average punters interest in boxing in this country.

sligobhoy67

why didnt Bernard get an automatic rematch with Kiko after his defeat?

dlofnep

Hero of College - You're in no position to call anyone a bum. You've accomplished nothing in boxing. Your biggest accomplishment is being David Hayes #1 hater. That's the extent of it. Boxing is a business. It's how Bernard puts food on his table. His management decide what's best for him, as a person - so that he can pay his bills.

Dunne is a skilled boxer, who while he doesn't hit hard - has only 1 blemish on his professional career, in a fight that he didn't get a chance to get settled into. Is he the greatest thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not. But he steps into the ring on a professional level and fights. Which is more than the majority of us on here would have the balls to do.

So grow up. You're becoming really annoying on this forum. We're boxing fans. We support boxers. You seem to just find ways to talk down to them at whatever cost.

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

why didnt Bernard get an automatic rematch with Kiko after his defeat?

Dunne's team and Peters turned down the chance of an immediate rematch as they didn't feel it was a good idea after being blitzed in 1 round.

akindoc

dlofnep wrote: »

Hero of College - You're in no position to call anyone a bum. You've accomplished nothing in boxing.

This is always a ridiculous point made on boxing forums.

dlofnep wrote: »

Your biggest accomplishment is being David Hayes #1 hater. That's the extent of it. Boxing is a business. It's how Bernard puts food on his table. His management decide what's best for him, as a person - so that he can pay his bills.

Dunne is a skilled boxer, who while he doesn't hit hard - has only 1 blemish on his professional career, in a fight that he didn't get a chance to get settled into. Is he the greatest thing since sliced bread? Absolutely not. But he steps into the ring on a professional level and fights. Which is more than the majority of us on here would have the balls to do.

So grow up. You're becoming really annoying on this forum. We're boxing fans. We support boxers. You seem to just find ways to talk down to them at whatever cost.

First of all, I agree that HOC isn't exactly the best poster on the board.

However, a lot of your arguments are terrible.

Why should we support Bernard Dunne when he is going to continue to fight overmatched opponents and milk the fans of their money. He doesn't even take on title shots when they are offered.

Some people like to support some boxers "cos their irish", personally I find that very silly.

nacho libre

I would call Dunne a pragmatist- he's knows he is not going to beat the big dogs so he is making easy money while he can before all it ends.
I wouldn't blame any limited fighter for doing the same. If you don't like what he is doing don't watch his fights or pay in to see him fight.

alanceltic

OK lads, a lot of s_hite talkin goin on here!!!

Firstly dont go believein the crap talk coming from boxing news who are a BRITISH mag, its obvious that they want to hype up Munroe and are prepared to drag Dunnes name into the gutter in order to do this, until this "so called" news comes from a credible source it should be treated as thrash talk.

Hero Of College, there are a lot of things i (any many others by the sounds of it) dont like about your posts, and slaggin off other posters who make a hugh contribution to the boxing forums just shows you are a tosser.
So you feel the need to let everybody know you are college educated, im thrilled for you, the vast majority of people exit the education system with a third level qualification (and dont feel the need to put a stamp on their heads) so you are nothing special - believe me, but there are some things that even the best of colleges cant teach ya!

Now just to challange a couple of you little inaccuracies ;

Hero Of College wrote: »

Bernard is not a real fighter cos he won't go on the road anymore :

Dunne went to the states to initiate his career and had 14 pro fights, he has since fought in italy and also germany, he has had more fights on foreign soil than at home. He has not been on the road in a while because there simply hasnt been the need to, the money pot is in ireland for this lad not abroad but im certain that if the need to travel arises he will have no problems going down that road.

Hero Of College wrote: »

I am a nobody, but so, when you get right down to it, is Bernard. When the Olympics are over, and the boys are turning pro, he's going to be even less important.

Average viewing numbers for Dunnes fights are in the 400,00-500,000 bracket and he has sold out everytime he has fought in Ireland , he has sold out the point depot 3 times over a feat which couldnt even be accomplished by such heroes as Collins & McCullough, so i guess you are a little off the mark on this one, anyhow, dunnes career will be well finished before any of our olympians start to make their mark but i doubt it would impact on his ability to put bums on seats or continue to be a draw for TV numbers.

Hero Of College wrote: »

If Maloney offered him less than he usually gets, its for 2 reasons:-

1. Bernard isn't a draw outside of his hometown. He's like an Irish version of Joey Gamache- just not as good. He's a moderately skilled, chinny, nonpunching hometown fighter who is basically unknown elsewhere. Thats hardly conducive to big paydays.

2. He is not a champion. That also means he takes a paycut.

I already shot down your comments about Dunne not being a draw, he also sold out a venue in Castlebar of all places so its not just in the pale where he has a draw. Purses usually have a correlation with the ability to put bums on seat, big TV numbers and the marketability of a boxer and not necessarily the belts a fighter holds, just ask any of the south americans who hold world titles and are boxing for under 50-100k, sure he wont get the same purse if he would get if he was champion but he doesnt have to undersell himself as has previously been pointed out to you.

Hero Of College wrote: »

If he had gone to England and beaten Munroe on the short money and taken the title home I would have given him all the respect.

God am i gonna hunt you down for this post if and when this happens!!!

Now I would be delighted to talk BOXING with you but please leave the bad manners you picked up at the door and lose the chip thats embedded on your shoulder before you come back. Wether you like it or not Bernard Dunne has made a hugh contribution to Irish boxing both as an amateur and a professional and your cheap talk is more a reflection of your own "college educated" personality rather than the greater feeling of irish boxing fans.

alanceltic

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

why didnt Bernard get an automatic rematch with Kiko after his defeat?

Sligo, the EBU rules dont allow automatic rematches, their rules will only let this happen in special circumstances (mabey if a contest was declared a no contest etc), basically if you loose the title you will drop below the mandatory position. As kiko was a mandatory fight Dunnes mgt team wouldnt have been able to have a rematch clause inserted into the contract which they would have been able to do in a voluntary defence situation.

Also Dunne appears to be slipping down the european rankings (even though he is going up in the world rankings) as a result of fighting 2 non europeans. He is either going to have to push for a voluntary defence of the EBU title or position himself for a world title/eliminator shot

Big Ears

alanceltic wrote: »

Sligo, the EBU rules dont allow automatic rematches, their rules will only let this happen in special circumstances (mabey if a contest was declared a no contest etc), basically if you loose the title you will drop below the mandatory position. As kiko was a mandatory fight Dunnes mgt team wouldnt have been able to have a rematch clause inserted into the contract which they would have been able to do in a voluntary defence situation.


Also Dunne appears to be slipping down the european rankings (even though he is going up in the world rankings) as a result of fighting 2 non europeans. He is either going to have to push for a voluntary defence of the EBU title or position himself for a world title/eliminator shot

He was offered the chance by Martinez's team, though wisely imo turned it down as an immediate rematch after a first round loss usually isn't a good idea for any fighter.

Dunne's team have to think very carefully about the next few moves in his career, it would be a good idea if they could lure Maludrottu over here before he gets his title chance. Dunne could make Maludrottu look every bit as foolish as Kelly did. A bout against another non European opponent looks very likely to result in Maludrottu becoming the next European mandatory, although that may happen anyway.

T-K-O

Some of you guys are absolutely unbelievable for a start you are all waffling about hear say where is the source ??

If he was offered the Cabellero fight he would have been the dumbest fighter in history to take it - likewise with the Kiko rematch straight away. That defeat would have been a massive blow to his confidence.

As for the posters saying Dunne is fighting bums, that may be true but who is Munroe and Kiko fighting? It sure as hell isn't Lopez Marquez and the likes.

What all you haters need to understand and I have been saying this from day one Dunne is top ten in the world with only the top 5 guys to fear.
Ponce, Lopez, Marquez, Mollitor, Cabellero. To be honest I don't fancy his chances against these guys but he could eek out a win against one of two of them.

Unless you have a source I am not believing that Dunne turned down a chance to fight Munroe.

sston

T-K-O wrote: »

Unless you have a source I am not believing that Dunne turned down a chance to fight Munroe.

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/16/Boxing-Maloney-on-Dunne-Munroe/

By the way I'm a big fan of Dunne's and think that his return home kickstarted the thriving Irish boxing scene we have right now. However I'm dissapointed that he has now turned down world and european title fights becuase at his age I don't think he can afford to waste any more time fighting the likes of Machado and Marchiano.

People want to see Dunne in title fights again if they're going to maintain their interest. I was at the Stadium for Marchiano and it was a long way from being sold out, there were quite a few empty seats there.

If I'm being honest I'd have to question his confidence, when Andy Lee suffered his first defeat he looked to bounce back by taking on a real dangerman like Willie Gibbs. It was a calculated risk and one that paid off becuase Lee's confidence will have been restored and the mental scars healed by beating someone likes Gibbs.

On the other hand Dunne's first comeback opponent was a light hitting super flyweight and Marchiano although a slight step up was a natural bantamweight. When you add the level of opposition for his two comeback fights to the news that he's turning down world and european title chances it makes you question his confidence and desire becuase if he's going to continue fighting the kind of opponents he has been recently people will lose interest very quickly.

I think even if the offer to fight Munroe wasn't great financially he should still have snapped it up becuase realistically as I said earlier it could be the end of next year before he gets a mandatory shot.

walshb

sston wrote: »

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/16/Boxing-Maloney-on-Dunne-Munroe/

By the way I'm a big fan of Dunne's and think that his return home kickstarted the thriving Irish boxing scene we have right now. However I'm dissapointed that he has now turned down world and european title fights becuase at his age I don't think he can afford to waste any more time fighting the likes of Machado and Marchiano.

People want to see Dunne in title fights again if they're going to maintain their interest. I was at the Stadium for Marchiano and it was a long way from being sold out, there were quite a few empty seats there.

If I'm being honest I'd have to question his confidence, when Andy Lee suffered his first defeat he looked to bounce back by taking on a real dangerman like Willie Gibbs. It was a calculated risk and one that paid off becuase Lee's confidence will have been restored and the mental scars healed by beating someone likes Gibbs.

On the other hand Dunne's first comeback opponent was a light hitting super flyweight and Marchiano although a slight step up was a natural bantamweight. When you add the level of opposition for his two comeback fights to the news that he's turning down world and european title chances it makes you question his confidence and desire becuase if he's going to continue fighting the kind of opponents he has been recently people will lose interest very quickly.

I think even if the offer to fight Munroe wasn't great financially he should still have snapped it up becuase realistically as I said earlier it could be the end of next year before he gets a mandatory shot.

What's new here I ask?
He's been fighting tomato cans right from the get go!!

I can tell anyone exactly what will happen with Dunne and the Peter's con show.

Bernard will have two to three more hype jobs against bums and everyone will
be back raving about how he is ready to meet and beat Kiko or Molitor etc. He will then
get clean KO'd, again, by a bum with a decent punch and he will retire for good.

Has anyone any other visions of Dunne's career?

For the record, this has zero to do with Dunne as a person, as I never met
the chap. It's a simple assessment of his career to date and a prediction for
the future

sligobhoy67

walshb wrote: »

What's new here I ask?
He's been fighting tomato cans right from the get go!!

I can tell anyone exactly what will happen with Dunne and the Peter's con show.

Bernard will have two to three more hype jobs against bums and everyone will
be back raving about how he is ready to meet and beat Kiko or Molitor etc. He will then
get clean KO'd, again, by a bum with a decent punch and he will retire for good.

Has anyone any other visions of Dunne's career?

For the record, this has zero to do with Dunne as a person, as I never met
the chap. It's a simple assessment of his career to date and a prediction for
the future

I think Molitor would go through Dunne but I genuinely am not sure that the result would be the same if he faced Kiko again

sligobhoy67

akindoc wrote: »

This is always a ridiculous point made on boxing forums.




First of all, I agree that HOC isn't exactly the best poster on the board.

However, a lot of your arguments are terrible.

Why should we support Bernard Dunne when he is going to continue to fight overmatched opponents and milk the fans of their money. He doesn't even take on title shots when they are offered.

Some people like to support some boxers "cos their irish", personally I find that very silly.

I know what you are saying ak but I dont think it is "very silly" to support Irish boxers because they are Irish.

Why do I support Sligo Rovers? or the Irish soccer team - why not support Shams or Bohs or Argentina because they play better football? Its natural to support your own and I dont see a problem with it - if there is an even fight would I prefer to see an Irishman beat an Englishman - yes I would is the honest answer.

But if the Englishman beat the Irish guy would I like to see him get the decision - yes I would.

walshb

I'll always support Dunne, the issue is that I will not be impressed simply because he is Irish. I will always want to see him win and do well, however, that doesn't mean I will then hype him up to be something that he clearly isn't.

T-K-O

sston wrote: »

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/07/16/Boxing-Maloney-on-Dunne-Munroe/

By the way I'm a big fan of Dunne's and think that his return home kickstarted the thriving Irish boxing scene we have right now. However I'm dissapointed that he has now turned down world and european title fights becuase at his age I don't think he can afford to waste any more time fighting the likes of Machado and Marchiano.

People want to see Dunne in title fights again if they're going to maintain their interest. I was at the Stadium for Marchiano and it was a long way from being sold out, there were quite a few empty seats there.

If I'm being honest I'd have to question his confidence, when Andy Lee suffered his first defeat he looked to bounce back by taking on a real dangerman like Willie Gibbs. It was a calculated risk and one that paid off becuase Lee's confidence will have been restored and the mental scars healed by beating someone likes Gibbs.

On the other hand Dunne's first comeback opponent was a light hitting super flyweight and Marchiano although a slight step up was a natural bantamweight. When you add the level of opposition for his two comeback fights to the news that he's turning down world and european title chances it makes you question his confidence and desire becuase if he's going to continue fighting the kind of opponents he has been recently people will lose interest very quickly.

I think even if the offer to fight Munroe wasn't great financially he should still have snapped it up becuase realistically as I said earlier it could be the end of next year before he gets a mandatory shot.

Thanks for the link but I still do not believe that Dunne is scared of Munroe he wants it on home soil and it seems the negotiations have begun. Munroe will fight here if the right money is offered, that is the way these things work

You can't compare the Lee and Dunne comebacks. Dunne was KOed is a stunning fashion as we all know where as Lee was still throwing punches against Vera and that fight was definitely stopped early.

T-K-O

walshb wrote: »

What's new here I ask?
He's been fighting tomato cans right from the get go!!

I can tell anyone exactly what will happen with Dunne and the Peter's con show.

Bernard will have two to three more hype jobs against bums and everyone will
be back raving about how he is ready to meet and beat Kiko or Molitor etc. He will then
get clean KO'd, again, by a bum with a decent punch and he will retire for good.

Has anyone any other visions of Dunne's career?

For the record, this has zero to do with Dunne as a person, as I never met
the chap. It's a simple assessment of his career to date and a prediction for
the future

Who has Kiko beaten to be held in such esteem. He was awful against an average Munroe.

T-K-O

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

I know what you are saying ak but I dont think it is "very silly" to support Irish boxers because they are Irish.

Why do I support Sligo Rovers? or the Irish soccer team - why not support Shams or Bohs or Argentina because they play better football? Its natural to support your own and I dont see a problem with it - if there is an even fight would I prefer to see an Irishman beat an Englishman - yes I would is the honest answer.

But if the Englishman beat the Irish guy would I like to see him get the decision - yes I would.

Exactly we should support him because he is Irish. I paid €180 to see Irelands last two competitive football games - It's national pride.

Hero Of College

walshb wrote: »

What's new here I ask?
He's been fighting tomato cans right from the get go!!

I can tell anyone exactly what will happen with Dunne and the Peter's con show.

Bernard will have two to three more hype jobs against bums and everyone will
be back raving about how he is ready to meet and beat Kiko or Molitor etc. He will then
get clean KO'd, again, by a bum with a decent punch and he will retire for good.

Has anyone any other visions of Dunne's career?

For the record, this has zero to do with Dunne as a person, as I never met
the chap. It's a simple assessment of his career to date and a prediction for
the future

Well said. Thats about the size of it. He's a spin merchant, and so is his promoter. They are not interested in carving a fistic legacy for Bernard, just in cashing in on the bare-chested, pisshead, national-anthem-singing nonsense that is attracted to his "Title Fights" down the point. Bernard himself comes across as being particularly boneheaded and ignorant, telling Ricky Hatton that his 50,000 show should have been held in a "proper stadium like Anfield" and that "Kiko Martinez is a One-Hit Wonder".

Word up Bum, he hit you at least 3 times.

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

Exactly we should support him because he is Irish. I paid €180 to see Irelands last two competitive football games - It's national pride.

Go back to your Ice Hockey!!

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

Who has Kiko beaten to be held in such esteem. He was awful against an average Munroe.

Bernard Dunne, who has, apparently, got Brilliant skills.

nacho libre

I'm surprised that you, having been a boxer, would use a derogatory term like bum to describe another fighter. Anyone who gets in the ring no matter of their ability deserves respect. I don't blame Dunne easing his way back in after the manner of his loss to Kiko. Getting knocked out the way he did, it can't be easy getting back into the ring. So like i said i wouldn't blame him for his easing his way back in. However, as someone mentioned the boxing public will lose interest if he isn't seen to take on a quality opponent sooner rather than later. I think he will. When he does face the likes of Molitor he will surely lose so i don't begrudge him making good money while he can before it's all over.

no matter what happens from now on, he and Peters have done a lot for the profile of Boxing in Ireland. They both deserve praise for that.

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

Thanks for the link but I still do not believe that Dunne is scared of Munroe he wants it on home soil and it seems the negotiations have begun. Munroe will fight here if the right money is offered, that is the way these things work

You can't compare the Lee and Dunne comebacks. Dunne was KOed is a stunning fashion as we all know where as Lee was still throwing punches against Vera and that fight was definitely stopped early.

Yes, and the manner and nature of their comebacks were also totally different. Bernard went up to Castlebar to take on an old washed up Flyweight and Andy was down in Limerick with the Kronk outfit and HoF trainer Manny Steward out-boxing and KO'g a name fighter who actually BELONGS in the MW division. There is no comparison in the manner in which they lost, or in the manner in which they returned.

T-K-O

Hero Of College wrote: »

Go back to your Ice Hockey!!

?

T-K-O

Hero Of College wrote: »

Bernard Dunne, who has, apparently, got Brilliant skills.

A guy you clearly do no rate, stop contradicting yourself.

Gary ITR

walshb wrote: »

What's new here I ask?


Bernard will have two to three more hype jobs against bums and everyone will
be back raving about how he is ready to meet and beat Kiko or Molitor etc. He will then
get clean KO'd, again, by a bum with a decent punch and he will retire for good.

I see it exactly the same tbh. I hope I'm proved wrong cos he seems a good charachter but he has never impressed me at all as a fighter.

T-K-O

Hero Of College wrote: »

Yes, and the manner and nature of their comebacks were also totally different. Bernard went up to Castlebar to take on an old washed up Flyweight and Andy was down in Limerick with the Kronk outfit and HoF trainer Manny Steward out-boxing and KO'g a name fighter who actually BELONGS in the MW division. There is no comparison in the manner in which they lost, or in the manner in which they returned.

Why wouldn't Lee comeback like that, you probably believed Manny when he said Lee would be champ within the year :rolleyes:. I'm not getting into a slagging match about two fighter I respect but coming back from a 1st round KO and a rash decision from the ref are two completely different situations.

Hero Of College

Big Ears wrote: »

You don't need a College Education to know what alliteration and assonance are, you're expected to know what they are at leaving cert level. Now maybe it took you a little longer, I don't know.

Now now...don't get all pissy on us. You got smart by saying that "Bum" and "Dunne" don't rhyme.

Big Ears wrote:

But it just seemed a little out of character to you to use them over your usual method of rhyming which has given us some crackers such as 'Smelly Kelly' and replacing the word Bunce with Dunce.......inspiring stuff.

Can I consider you thus inspired?

Hero wrote:

The guy is just not a real fighter anymore. He wants the easiest, fattest best paying route. If he had gone to England and beaten Munroe on the short money and taken the title home I would have given him all the respect.

I stand by that.

Hero wrote:

In my opinion, it is the height of bad boxing manners to turn down a title shot. Amir Khan would be right to turn one down, thats the exception to the rule. But Dunne has won the European title before and should not be turning down a chance to get it back. In effect, this is the 2nd time he has done it.

I stand by that too. Granted as you say there are no "Automatic Rematches" but we both know a rematch was on the table and he turned it down. Now he has turned down a second title shot.

Big Ears, Saint of Neilstown wrote:

So you think an offer of €8,000, options on Dunne's next 6 fights which would take place in Leisure centres in England and an immediate rematch should he win in England, with the original fight in England would be aq fair offer for Dunne ?

No, and I never intimated that such an offer would be fair, anymore than you can prove that anything even tantamount to such an offer was even made. Don't go down the Tabloid route matey- we both know that no such offer was made- Frank Maloney would stand to make far more money from parading a victorious Bernard Dunne around Ireland than he would from locking him away on Leisure Centre shows. Be reasonable.:mad:

Big Ears wrote:

Professional boxing is a business, it's not always as simple as if you're offered a title shot you take it. John Duddy's team turned down $1,000,000 to fight Jermaine Taylor for the Middleweight Championship of the World.

I already said there were exceptions. As it happens, if John Duddy turned down $1,000,000 to fight Taylor then he's even dumber than I thought. One valid exception would be the likes of Khan declining a title shot now, on grounds of immaturity, or Jerry Quarry turning down a title shot against Jimmy Ellis on grounds of injury {Of course Jerry didn't and the rest is history}

The European Title at 122 is familiar territory for Dunne. You know as well as I do that if Bernard turned that shot down then it was because he was bloody well afraid to go to England and prefers to stay at home and make easy money off the backs of a thicko Irish fan base fighting Argie roadsweepers- it has nothing to do with imaginary hypothetical terms and conditions inserted by mainstream promoters.

PS...I could drop a couple names of guys who happen to agree with me- not on the title shot, but on the nature of people who can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to Bernard and his support.

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

Why wouldn't Lee comeback like that, you probably believed Manny when he said Lee would be champ within the year :rolleyes:. I'm not getting into a slagging match about two fighter I respect but coming back from a 1st round KO and a rash decision from the ref are two completely different situations.

I don't believe an awful lot of what manny says, in fact I think Manny is full of sh!t and is going to get Wlad hurt sooner rather than later. But thats another argument.

Ironically, Andy probably took more cerebral punishment from Vera than Dunne did from Martinez.

Hero Of College

nacho libre wrote: »

no matter what happens from now on, he and Peters have done a lot for the profile of Boxing in Ireland. They both deserve praise for that.

Yes, to the extent that any arsehole in work thinks he has an opinion on the fight game. I'm so glad Kikos people cleaned them out.

T-K-O

Hero Of College wrote: »

I don't believe an awful lot of what manny says, in fact I think Manny is full of sh!t and is going to get Wlad hurt sooner rather than later. But thats another argument.

Ironically, Andy probably took more cerebral punishment from Vera than Dunne did from Martinez.

It's all about confidence and Dunne had zero after Kiko where as Lee felt hard done by.

Ice Hockey ??

walshb

T-K-O wrote: »

Who has Kiko beaten to be held in such esteem. He was awful against an average Munroe.

Where oh where did I ever hold Kiko in high esteem. I think Kiko is very average. So that tells you how I rate Bernard. I never ever said Kiko was anything above average.