Toll Plaza to come down in one day?

chris85

Following a conversation with one of the representative regarding the eflow system account and stuff I asked about the toll plaza and was told it would be coming down as I expected it would of course. I then said that it must be coming down overnight or something and I was told it would be done in one day.

Ok I cant see the powers that be in this country to be able to get rid of the plaza in one day. They must take down the whole structure with electronics and all that and the obvious damage to the road that this causes. Then fill the road there and then place road markings.

Does anyone else think this result in a nightmare?

The only way i can see this being done is if that close the outer lanes at the plaza a week before and take down the structure there and place temporary markings down and then close the inner lanes with traffic going around the outer lanes and remove the rest of the structure including main building and fill the road and place road markings down. When finished get rid of outer lanes and have the four lanes running right through.

I am wondering do people think this will run smoothly or will it be just another disaster?

Alanstrainor

Is the toll plaza going or just the barriers?

guil

afaik the whole lot is goin

Cionád

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Is the toll plaza going or just the barriers?

Surely the plaza would have to go, can't be racing through the gaps at 100km/h surely...

L1011

The entire plaza - you'd never safely be able to go through the remains of gates at 100kph.

Alanstrainor

MYOB wrote: »

The entire plaza - you'd never safely be able to go through the remains of gates at 100kph.

Very true...

chris85

The whole lot has to go.

pvt.joker

MYOB wrote: »

The entire plaza - you'd never safely be able to go through the remains of gates at 100kph.

unless you were kbannon of course, who can safely drive at speeds of 160k+ under any conditions

tonc76

The toll plaza will be completely removed. The new toll "collection point" is located north of the existing structure on the new portal gantries.

dade

for us poor ignorant feckers that are luck enough to use the M50 maybe twice a year and don't need the etoll lark what way doe sit work then are there pay point on it or what?

chris85

dade wrote: »

for us poor ignorant feckers that are luck enough to use the M50 maybe twice a year and don't need the etoll lark what way doe sit work then are there pay point on it or what?

www.eflow.ie

This will show payment methods.

Run_to_da_hills

pvt.joker wrote: »

unless you were kbannon of course, who can safely drive at speeds of 160k+ under any conditions

In the Netherlands we had to slow right down to about 40mph passing through a gantry, E_tags (Spy chips) will have no trouble giving a reading but the ANPR Cameras would have difficulty detecting dodgers at speed, Also cars must be kept at a distance, if they are too close they can impair the camera readings. I can imagine a speed limit will be imposed in Dublin with this opening with all the confusion that will be going on.

endplate

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the Netherlands we had to slow right down to about 40mph passing through a gantry, E_tags (Spy chips) will have no trouble giving a reading but the ANPR Cameras would have difficulty detecting dodgers at speed, Also cars must be kept at a distance, if they are too close they can impair the camera readings. I can imagine a speed limit will be imposed in Dublin with this opening with all the confusion that will be going on.

So basically there will be no difference to traffic volumes approaching the toll station:rolleyes:

L1011

endplate wrote: »

So basically there will be no difference to traffic volumes approaching the toll station:rolleyes:

The contractor must read tags and registration plates at 100kmh. There WILL NOT be a reduced speed limit put in, if they can't read tags or regs they lose the dosh.

DonJose

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the Netherlands we had to slow right down to about 40mph passing through a gantry, E_tags (Spy chips) will have no trouble giving a reading but the ANPR Cameras would have difficulty detecting dodgers at speed, Also cars must be kept at a distance, if they are too close they can impair the camera readings. I can imagine a speed limit will be imposed in Dublin with this opening with all the confusion that will be going on.

I wonder how non-eflow cars will be tail-gating articulated lorries at the point where the camera reads the license plate

dade

chris85 wrote: »

www.eflow.ie

This will show payment methods.

cheers

John R

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the Netherlands we had to slow right down to about 40mph passing through a gantry, E_tags (Spy chips) will have no trouble giving a reading but the ANPR Cameras would have difficulty detecting dodgers at speed, Also cars must be kept at a distance, if they are too close they can impair the camera readings. I can imagine a speed limit will be imposed in Dublin with this opening with all the confusion that will be going on.

Digital cameras linked to ANPR systems are commonly used for speed enforcement, they wouldn't be much use if the couldn't read plates at over 40mph would they?

tonc76

endplate wrote: »

So basically there will be no difference to traffic volumes approaching the toll station:rolleyes:

There will be no change in traffic volumes anyway:rolleyes: The traffic however will not have to stop to pay the toll which should mean an increase in speeds along the M50

Seth Brundle

pvt.joker wrote: »

unless you were kbannon of course, who can safely drive at speeds of 160k+ under any conditions

now what brought that on?
Personally I found your lack of tolerance of the facts in the previous debate a bit much but to unnecessarily bring it all back in this context which has nothing to do with the previous debate is unfair.

Feck it - banned!

seamus

The toll plaza has a few extra lanes, so I'm sure this would easy enough to do overnight.

That is, you close off the middle three lanes on each side at 10pm on the first night and direct all other traffic to the outside 3 (?) lanes. You then get one team to work on each of the six booths which need removing. You'd easily pull one up within 9 hours with a big enough team.

Then you reopen the three lanes at 7am, booth free, and spend the rest of the weekend removing the other booths and cleaning up.

Lord Nikon

I'll stay above 100km/h so, to avoid getting caught

Steve

pvt.joker wrote: »

unless you were kbannon of course, who can safely drive at speeds of 160k+ under any conditions

Didn't you get banned from feedback for trolling with that crap.

MYOB wrote: »

The contractor must read tags and registration plates at 100kmh. There WILL NOT be a reduced speed limit put in, if they can't read tags or regs they lose the dosh.

What will happen if there is slow moving traffic and there is not enough seperation between vehicle for the cameras to read the plates?

Maybe not likely with cars but certainly possible with a queue of HGVs.

cabrwab

We will all have the perect idea's here lads, it will never ever happen in reality, i smell disaster!

chris85

seamus wrote: »

The toll plaza has a few extra lanes, so I'm sure this would easy enough to do overnight.

That is, you close off the middle three lanes on each side at 10pm on the first night and direct all other traffic to the outside 3 (?) lanes. You then get one team to work on each of the six booths which need removing. You'd easily pull one up within 9 hours with a big enough team.

Then you reopen the three lanes at 7am, booth free, and spend the rest of the weekend removing the other booths and cleaning up.

Thats more or less the method i meant in my first post but I really dont think its going to go that smooth. Nothing ever seems to go smooth when it comes to things like this.

daRobot

Anyone know if the cameras will read the front or back plate?

Tipsy Mac

Anyone know if the additional gantrys are going at just the intersection of the M1 and M50 or will they also be put at a midway point of Finglas exit?

flanzer

Anyone got their eflow tags yet? Mine hasn't arrived yet and I'm heading south for the Bank Holiday weekend

chris85

flanzer wrote: »

Anyone got their eflow tags yet? Mine hasn't arrived yet and I'm heading south for the Bank Holiday weekend

When on the phone with the guy from eflow earlier he said its operational from the 30th August (i think, definitly at the end of August sometime from what he said)

All tags should be sent out about the 18th August or so he said.

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

The contractor must read tags and registration plates at 100kmh. There WILL NOT be a reduced speed limit put in, if they can't read tags or regs they lose the dosh.

That was in Holland 5 years ago, more than likely ANPR technology has come along way since then.

daRobot wrote: »

Anyone know if the cameras will read the front or back plate?

I would presume the plasa area will be dotted with cameras to catch out any potential offender from the front or rear.

Some idea of what the M50 plasa will look like except they will have three e-pass lanes.

L1011

SteveC wrote: »

What will happen if there is slow moving traffic and there is not enough seperation between vehicle for the cameras to read the plates?

Maybe not likely with cars but certainly possible with a queue of HGVs.

Theres more than one camera gantry, worst comes to the worst (for them!) you get free ride I guess?

However, it'd take something to slow traffic down - at top speed, HGVs with safe seperation wouldn't be close enough to make the plates unreadable. Note I said safe though...

pvt.joker

kbannon wrote: »

now what brought that on?
Personally I found your lack of tolerance of the facts in the previous debate a bit much but to unnecessarily bring it all back in this context which has nothing to do with the previous debate is unfair.

Feck it - banned!

Apologies KBannon, I meant that comment in jest, but appreciate it looks bad. Thanks for lifting the ban.

Seth Brundle

Its cool - lets move on!

L1011

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Anyone know if the additional gantrys are going at just the intersection of the M1 and M50 or will they also be put at a midway point of Finglas exit?

Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.

Seth Brundle

MYOB wrote: »

Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.

In other words, its still only the bridge that is being tolled!

Steve

MYOB wrote: »

Theres more than one camera gantry, worst comes to the worst (for them!) you get free ride I guess?

However, it'd take something to slow traffic down - at top speed, HGVs with safe seperation wouldn't be close enough to make the plates unreadable. Note I said safe though...

I was thinking of the rush-hour 2kmh queues which despite their best efforts are not going to totally disappear.

MYOB wrote: »

Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.

Funny you should mention that - I read somewhere, and can't for the life of me remember where, that ultimately the tolls would run from sandyford to the M1 with ANPR cameras on all exits. I'm beginning to think I was dreaming it as I can't find anything to back it up.
Did I imagine this or was it on the cards and got scrapped?

copacetic

SteveC wrote: »

Funny you should mention that - I read somewhere, and can't for the life of me remember where, that ultimately the tolls would run from sandyford to the M1 with ANPR cameras on all exits. I'm beginning to think I was dreaming it as I can't find anything to back it up.
Did I imagine this or was it on the cards and got scrapped?

it was rumoured and reported a few times, but denied.

milltown

daRobot wrote: »

Anyone know if the cameras will read the front or back plate?

If they plan to continue charging motorcyclists they will have to be able to read back plates.

Esel

Bikes will be free, afair.

Run_to_da_hills

esel wrote: »

Bikes will be free, afair.

About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes

milltown wrote: »

If they plan to continue charging motorcyclists they will have to be able to read back plates.

They would need a magnifying glass to read some of the bike plates around the city, I dont know how some of them still away with it. I was cautioned a few years ago to change my plate to a standard one.

DublinDilbert

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That was in Holland 5 years ago, more than likely ANPR technology has come along way since then.


I would presume the plasa area will be dotted with cameras to catch out any potential offender from the front or rear.

Some idea of what the M50 plasa will look like except they will have three e-pass lanes.

The thing about vision systems is that the problems are very complex. The average person thinks vision problems are simple, cause the human brain is excellent at solving vision tasks, and has built up a massive knowledge about the "real world" and how objects move / relate within it.

In the above example of a car tail-gating a HGV, It would be very difficult / complex for a computer to extract the shape of the back of the car from the shape of the truck. If you ask a human to do the same task, they will quickly be able to do it, and more than likely will tell you the make/model of car and even have a guess at what size engine it has!

Quite often the way to solve complex vision problems is to constrain the inputs to the system, eg ensure a min distance between cars, a maximum speed, control lighting conditions etc...

milltown

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes

I was far too nice! If I was setting out on a trip that involved the M50 I used to put the correct change into my glove before I left.

degsie

Just thinking about this. If a tow truck is towing/carrying a car how would the camera system handle this? If two different plates are showing in such close proximity which one gets charged?

L1011

SteveC wrote: »

I was thinking of the rush-hour 2kmh queues which despite their best efforts are not going to totally disappear.

The queues will be moving faster than 2kmh though - at least once the N3 junction is done. Could easily be some problems to begin with!

Run_to_da_hills

milltown wrote: »

I was far too nice! If I was setting out on a trip that involved the M50 I used to put the correct change into my glove before I left.

You would still have to stop the bike, remove your gloves root for this cash and take about the same time to do all this as it would have left about 5 cars through.

Riche670

MYOB wrote: »

The entire plaza - you'd never safely be able to go through the remains of gates at 100kph.

We could have a lot of fun trying!:rolleyes:

Beano

On a related note I currently have an eazypass. At the moment the toll plaza can barely read it when i'm stopped at the plaza so how do they expect to read it when i'm passing the gantry at 100KmH?

L1011

Beano wrote: »

On a related note I currently have an eazypass. At the moment the toll plaza can barely read it when i'm stopped at the plaza so how do they expect to read it when i'm passing the gantry at 100KmH?

Position it correctly! The only people I ever see with tag problems have them on backwards (the antenna is on one side). Or those that assume you need to wave the tag at the reader. NTR should be able to send you a new mounting sticker if you can't re-sticky the old one.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes

Great pleasure why? The only people that stupidness annoys is other drrivers. The person taking the tolls isnt losing out and is going nowhere regardless of whether you take 10 secs or 10 mins.

I bet your the first one to get annoyed at the gob****es in cars that wait till they get to the barrier before starting to root for change.

Paparazzo

Stekelly wrote: »

Great pleasure why? The only people that stupidness annoys is other drrivers. The person taking the tolls isnt losing out and is going nowhere regardless of whether you take 10 secs or 10 mins.

I bet your the first one to get annoyed at the gob****es in cars that wait till they get to the barrier before starting to root for change.

Sounds like you're the one that gets annoyed by them.

Guy:Incognito

Paparazzo wrote: »

Sounds like you're the one that gets annoyed by them.

I'd imagine everyone does ,my point was that in a similar situation run_to_da_hills would be pissed off if someone in a car did more or less the same as he does on his bike. Taking some enjoyment out of holding up "the man" by slowing paying when on the M50 is stupid and pointless as the only ones you annoy are other road users. It makes no difference to the people working on the bridge or the owners.

chris85

My hate is going down the eazypass to avoid the queue to get there and some idiot not having an eazypass and holding up the traffic.