Time to legalise some drugs?

JC 2K3

mise_me_fein wrote: »

People like my Dad and my grandmother would not want drugs to be legalized. Also I think that most of the people from this generation would have the same opinion and a lot of people from my generation.

I am democratic and liberal.

For all it's problems most people don't mind alcohol being legal, but they do have a problem with a lot of the other drugs such as cocaine and even hash.

That's the way it is here. If you don't like it, move to Holland

How defeatist is that??

Do you not think that the holders of these ignorant, uninformed opinions should have to answer to them?

Piste

Legalising drugs will only go giving people the notion that it's "ok" to do them "Ah sure it's legal now, it can't be THAT dangerous/addictive".

Sure you could get taxes from drugs and regulate them and cut down drug smuggling etc. But that Junkie's still gonna need his fix, whether it's legal or not and it wont mind the blindest bit of difference who's supplying him with drugs when he mugs you/breaks into your house.

meditraitor

JC 2K3 wrote: »

How defeatist is that??

Do you not think that the holders of these ignorant, uninformed opinions should have to answer to them?

Let me get this straight.

Are you implying that people who thinks drugs should not be legalised are ignorant and uninformed?

ScumLord

mise_me_fein wrote: »

People like my Dad and my grandmother would not want drugs to be legalized. Also I think that most of the people from this generation would have the same opinion and a lot of people from my generation.

That doesn't make it right. They grew up hearing out and out lies about cannabis and drugs in general yet that opinion wins out. It's a bit of a disgrace that the most ill informed people get to decide what's best for everyone else. It would be like getting some hick from Offaly to run the country or worse the economy.

Piste wrote: »

Legalising drugs will only go giving people the notion that it's "ok" to do them "Ah sure it's legal now, it can't be THAT dangerous/addictive".

And they'd be right, it's not that addictive or dangerous. We only hear about the worst case scenario with hard drugs. The vast majority of drug users don't become addicted or turn to crime. The vast majority of drug users are not homeless, have jobs and don't need to steal to support their indulgences.

meditraitor

As JC 2kp and Scumlord are maintaining that most people are ignorant and ill informed regarding Illegal drugs and their beneficial/negative qualities I thought I would start by pointing out the effects of the so called safe drug.
Cannabis

This is for the benefit of the ill informed so they can make an informed decision on whether Cannabis should be legalised!

Acute health effects of cannabis use
The acute effects of cannabis use has been recognized for many years, and recent studies have confirmed and extended earlier findings. These may be summarized as follows:

Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
Chronic health effects of cannabis use
selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes;
prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions;
development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users;
cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals;
epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;
cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.
The health consequences of cannabis use in developing countries are largely unknown beacuse of limited and non-systematic research, but there is no reason a priori to expect that biological effects on individuals in these populations would be substantially different to what has been observed in developed countries. However, other consequences might be different given the cultural and social differences between countries.

World Health Organisation

Dragan

Everything on that list can be attributed to other things that are currently available in shops for public purchase.

I have yet to find a convincing study that shows me a real link between cannabis use and multiple personality disorder except in already existing cases of the illness.

meditraitor

Dragan wrote: »

Everything on that list can be attributed to other things that are currently available in shops for public purchase.

I have yet to find a convincing study that shows me a real link between cannabis use and multiple personality disorder except in already existing cases of the illness.

But there is nothing available in the shops that can be attributed to them all!!!

People like you will never be convinced. Until you get bitten.
And as luck would have it you are in the minority.

Terry

meditraitor wrote: »

As JC 2kp and Scumlord are maintaining that most people are ignorant and ill informed regarding Illegal drugs and their beneficial/negative qualities I thought I would start by pointing out the effects of the so called safe drug.
Cannabis

This is for the benefit of the ill informed so they can make an informed decision on whether Cannabis should be legalised!

Acute health effects of cannabis use
The acute effects of cannabis use has been recognized for many years, and recent studies have confirmed and extended earlier findings. These may be summarized as follows:

Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
Chronic health effects of cannabis use
selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes;
prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions;
development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users;
cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals;
epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;
cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.
The health consequences of cannabis use in developing countries are largely unknown beacuse of limited and non-systematic research, but there is no reason a priori to expect that biological effects on individuals in these populations would be substantially different to what has been observed in developed countries. However, other consequences might be different given the cultural and social differences between countries.

World Health Organisation

That's a lie.
If it's not on erowid, then it's not true.


/stir

ScumLord

meditraitor wrote: »

As JC 2kp and Scumlord are maintaining that most people are ignorant and ill informed regarding Illegal drugs and their beneficial/negative qualities I thought I would start by pointing out the effects of the so called safe drug.
Cannabis

This is for the benefit of the ill informed so they can make an informed decision on whether Cannabis should be legalised!

Acute health effects of cannabis use
The acute effects of cannabis use has been recognized for many years, and recent studies have confirmed and extended earlier findings. These may be summarized as follows:

Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
Chronic health effects of cannabis use
selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes;
prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions;
development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users;
cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals;
epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;
cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.
The health consequences of cannabis use in developing countries are largely unknown beacuse of limited and non-systematic research, but there is no reason a priori to expect that biological effects on individuals in these populations would be substantially different to what has been observed in developed countries. However, other consequences might be different given the cultural and social differences between countries.

World Health Organisation

Most of those side effects only affect you when your under the influence of the drug. There is also a misconception that cannabis stays in your system for up to a month after use which isn't exactly true. The active ingredient does not stay in your system so your not permanently stoned for a month.

Most of the ill effects of cannabis use come from smoking it. Smoking anything is bad for you. If you want to avoid all these problems eat it.

I'm not trying to say cannabis is completely safe, nothing is completely safe but I'd say eating 3 meals in McDonald's everyday would be more likely to eventually kill you than injesting 3 grams of cannabis everyday. Unless your one of the unlucky few that has an underlining condition. I'm sure if you asked the WHO to give a list on the dangers of real butter they'd come up with a list just as long.

Cannabis abuse is not good for you. Recreational use of cannabis will not cause any serious problems for the user, allot of the very harmful affects are only seen with life long chronic abuse. It makes no sense to create the huge problem of organised crime to protect the public from a drug that isn't really that dangerous.

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote: »

Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabis is used both during learning and recall periods;

So you won't learn much when you're stoned and you won't remember much when you're stoned. How blindingly obvious. It's a drug! It's taken specifically to impair cognitive function.

meditraitor wrote:

Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.

Again, when intoxicated. It's obvious that nobody should ever drive while intoxicated on anything.

The effects of cannabis intoxication mostly wear off after four hours, with some lingering but barely noticeable effects for a while longer. In my opinion, simply being tired will make operating complex machinery more difficult than the minute after effects of being stoned.

meditraitor wrote:

selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes;
prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions;

It's possible that long-term use can impair these cognitive functions, yes, (although I have never, in my life, come across anyone suffering from it as a result of chronic cannabis use) but isn't it true that other drugs such as alcohol, tobacco, paracetamol, caffeine and so on have worse chronic side-effects?

meditraitor wrote:

development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users;

Because they like being stoned, maybe? Cannabis can be psychologically addictive, but so are a lot of things.

meditraitor wrote:

cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals;

Exacerbate in affected individuals... nobody who is schizophrenic should touch cannabis. This is basic common sense.

meditraitor wrote:

epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;

Just like smoking anything else, which is why there are alternatives such as vapourisation and eating it.

meditraitor wrote:

airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;

"Consumption" should read "smoking". You're not making any kind of solid argument here as you'll find all of these effects from chronically smoking anything. Nothing specific to smoking cannabis.

Of course, if you would like to take the time to read the following...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html

meditraitor wrote:

cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.

Nobody should smoke or consume any kind of psychoactive while pregnant. This is, again, common sense.

Can I ask why all of this matters? This is not a list of reasons to keep cannabis illegal, it's a list of things people should know before smoking it. Something should not be banned just because it may harm whoever uses it. Ever hear of free will? Cannabis is relatively safe when compared to other substances such as alcohol. It has some dangers, of course, but nowhere near enough to justify prohibition.

meditraitor

meditraitor wrote: »

But there is nothing available in the shops that can be attributed to them all!!!

People like you will never be convinced. Until you get bitten.
And as luck would have it you are in the minority.

Calm down. This seems to be more of an emotional than logical issue for prohibitionists.

What about solvents? Paint? Glue? Deodorant? They're all available freely in shops, except they have a much worse side-effect: sudden death.

Let cannabis users get bitten. They're only potentially harming themselves, nobody else. Please stop trying to "protect" others by restricting their liberty.

AARRRGH

[Generalisation]
It's normally the younger folk in society who support the legalisation of drugs.
[/Generalisation]

Does anyone want to have a guess why?

MIN2511

dublindude wrote: »

[Generalisation]
It's normally the younger folk in society who support the legalisation of drugs.
[/Generalisation]

Does anyone want to have a guess why?

Cause we are young, dumb and full of cum!:p

Also we have less responsibilities, economy is rife, drugs are affordable and available, peer pressure....

Sm0ke

chickenhawk wrote: »

If someone wants to take cocaine they deserve the rat poison imo.

The same people will complain about crime on the streets and yet they are funding it.

no they dont lol, most coke heads are the ones causing the crime on the streets!

leagalise all drugs, we all have our own minds, sure some will become addicts but we know thats the risk. anyone falls by the wayside let them.

people want to get high and will continue to do so. why let them feed crime lords when our economy could have a massive injection of money.

sure i suppose then petty crime wud rise.....

AARRRGH

I take it a lot of you don't have kids.

People become more conservative when they have children.

Would you be happy leaving your kids alone to play in the park knowing there are junkies everywhere due to the legalisation of drugs?

Dragan

meditraitor wrote: »

But there is nothing available in the shops that can be attributed to them all!!!

People like you will never be convinced. Until you get bitten.
And as luck would have it you are in the minority.

People like me?

Please, expand.

dublindude wrote: »

Would you be happy leaving your kids alone to play in the park knowing there are junkies everywhere due to the legalisation of drugs?

Because junkies don't currently occupy our parks?

Also, how many parents leave young kids who would be unable to spot such danger and move away in parks alone?

I would be more worried about the parenting in such circumstances.

Sorry, just writing a ridiculous answer to your ridiculous point.

Once again i see a drugs thread going nowhere. Who would have thunk it.

The reasons offered for legalisation are blinded and unrealistic, the reasons against could have been churned out by any ****ty media outlet.

meditraitor

Dragan wrote: »

People like me?

Please, expand.
.

Sofist (pro dope)

ScumLord

Dragan wrote: »

The reasons offered for legalisation are blinded and unrealistic,

What's blind and unrealistic? (I'm completely focused on Cannabis by the way) Cannabis is not a dangerous drug. Having it illegal encourages and funds organised crime. The solution (prohibition) is worse than the problem it was brought into fix (which didn't exist in the first place).

AARRRGH

Dragan wrote: »

Because junkies don't currently occupy our parks?

Exactly.

If we legalise heroin etc. there will be a lot more junkies.

Dragan wrote: »

Also, how many parents leave young kids who would be unable to spot such danger and move away in parks alone?

Currently parents can keep their kids away from the inner city/deprived areas.

If hard drugs are legalised the problems restricted to certain poor areas will become common throughout every part of Ireland.

Parenting would become a nightmare.

Dragan wrote: »

Sorry, just writing a ridiculous answer to your ridiculous point.

Nope, you are simply unable to visualise the consequences of legalising drugs. That's not my fault.

meditraitor

Sm0ke wrote: »

no they dont lol, most coke heads are the ones causing the crime on the streets!

leagalise all drugs, we all have our own minds, sure some will become addicts but we know thats the risk. anyone falls by the wayside let them.

people want to get high and will continue to do so. why let them feed crime lords when our economy could have a massive injection of money.

sure i suppose then petty crime wud rise.....

Did you read this before you posted?

If you mean it you are heartless indeed. I hope nobody in your family ever has a drug related illness/ all the people in this thread as well.

Sam Vimes

dublindude wrote: »

I take it a lot of you don't have kids.

People become more conservative when they have children.

Would you be happy leaving your kids alone to play in the park knowing there are junkies everywhere due to the legalisation of drugs?

as opposed to now where there are no junkies because they're illegal?

anyone who wants to do drugs can get them with absolutely no bother in minutes. heroin is an extremely dangerous drug and if it was legalised tomorrow people wouldn't somehow forget that.

when someone is deciding whether or not to do heroin they don't say to themselves "oh it's illegal so i won't do it", they say "it's a life destroying drug so i won't do it". if it was legalised tomorrow it would still be a life destroying drug. what makes you think that so many more people will forget all those junkies they saw on the side of the road with track marks on their arms if heroin was legal?

would you or anyone you know take up heroin tomorrow if it was made legal?

AARRRGH

Btw I would rather alcohol was illegal and marijuana was legal.

AARRRGH

Sam Vimes wrote: »

when someone is deciding whether or not to do heroin they don't say to themselves "oh it's illegal so i won't do it", they say "it's a life destroying drug so i won't do it". if it was legalised tomorrow it would still be a life destroying drug. what makes you think that so many more people will forget all those junkies they saw on the side of the road with track marks on their arms if heroin was legal?

I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of 'tards who live in this country.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

would you or anyone you know take up heroin tomorrow if it was made legal?

Absolutely.

An ex-girlfriend of mine used to smoke herion.

It is by far the best (most satisfying) drug you can take.

Sm0ke

meditraitor wrote: »

Did you read this before you posted?

If you mean it you are heartless indeed. I hope nobody in your family ever has a drug related illness/ all the people in this thread as well.

considering I myself have spent 2 months in a rehab unit at only 23 years of age i give myself a free reign to joke about the monkey, because if i dont joke about it might look for more bananas.

I do apologise tough it was insensitive but in the light of what this thread is actually saying its complete crap! it is not feasible or realistic that all or any drugs will be leagalised in the near future, more will be made illegal sure. anyway drugs are readily available all over the country so leagalising them is just plain ridiculous

Sam Vimes

dublindude wrote: »

I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of 'tards who live in this country.

if these people are so retarded, what makes you think the fact that the drug is illegal is enough for them not to do it?

dublindude wrote: »

Absolutely.

An ex-girlfriend of mine used to smoke herion.

It is by far the best (most satisfying) drug you can take.

so you're saying she smoked it even though it was illegal. my question was would more people do it if it was legal, or as i believe, would the people who are smart enough not to do it now still be smart enough not to do it?

Sam Vimes

Sm0ke wrote: »

anyway drugs are readily available all over the country so leagalising them is just plain ridiculous

that makes no sense. the point is that they're available everywhere, so making them illegal has failed miserably. people will always do drugs but if they're legal, they can be taxed and money can be made off them to help the addicts rather than pissing it all down the drain in a futile attempt to keep the drugs out

if prohibition worked i'd be all for it but it's plain for everyone to see that it doesn't

Sm0ke

Sam Vimes wrote: »

that makes no sense. the point is that they're available everywhere, so making them illegal has failed miserably. people will always do drugs but if they're legal, they can be taxed and money can be made off them to help the addicts rather than pissing it all down the drain in a futile attempt to keep the drugs out

and what, u think for a secound that will happen? lol

never and i repeat NEVER will we readily be able to buy heroin or cocaine in a shop and under no circumstances should we try. the worst thing you could do ispump the governments money to buy drugs wtf do you mean giving money back to the addicts? we wud create more addicts more people who will rob and steal to get their fix. people are always going to become addicted to drugs, i knew what heroin wud do if i went near and stupidly it didnt stop me as it hasnt for the huge number of people that are queing to take methadone on a daily basis. leagalising weed wudnt make a huge diffrence tough as the ratio of smokers or people that have smoked is high.

AARRRGH

Sam Vimes wrote: »

if these people are so retarded, what makes you think the fact that the drug is illegal is enough for them not to do it?

It's hard to get.

I know you'll say "no it's not" but the average dope doesn't want to hang around Christ Churh looking for heroin.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

so you're saying she smoked it even though it was illegal. my question was would more people do it if it was legal, or as i believe, would the people who are smart enough not to do it now still be smart enough not to do it?

If a group of people were drinking at a house party, and someone showed up with a load of legal, Government approved drugs, two things would happen:

1. He wouldn't be afraid to tell people he has the drugs. After all, they're legal and Government approved.
2. People who would normally not take these drugs would give them a try.

Sam Vimes

Sm0ke wrote: »

and what, u think for a secound that will happen? lol

never and i repeat NEVER will we readily be able to buy heroin or cocaine in a shop and under no circumstances should we try. the worst thing you could do ispump the governments money to buy drugs wtf do you mean giving money back to the addicts? we wud create more addicts more people who will rob and steal to get their fix. people are always going to become addicted to drugs, i knew what heroin wud do if i went near and stupidly it didnt stop me as it hasnt for the huge number of people that are queing to take methadone on a daily basis. leagalising weed wudnt make a huge diffrence tough as the ratio of smokers or people that have smoked is high.

this thread isn't about whether it will ever happen, it's about whether it should happen.

you say that you did heroin and so did a huge number of other people despite it being illegal. what difference would legalising it make?

dublindude wrote: »

It's hard to get.

I know you'll say "no it's not" but the average dope doesn't want to hang around Christ Churh looking for heroin.

you guessed my response:no it's not. you don't have to hang around street corners to get it, it's a lot easier than that

dublindude wrote: »

If a group of people were drinking at a house party, and someone showed up with a load of legal, Government approved drugs, two things would happen:

1. He wouldn't be afraid to tell people he has the drugs. After all, they're legal and Government approved.
2. People who would normally not take these drugs would give them a try.

you're vastly over estimating the power that "legalising" has. there's something that's far more important in the real world that determines whether that would happen or not: "social acceptability".

imagine this as an ad campaign from the government:

gang violence is out of control
addicts are destroying their families lives
our jails are clogged up with young people

to combat this, we will be supplying addicts with the substances needed to satisfy their cravings.

we are not condoning drug use. this is a new measure solely designed to combat gang violence and the negative impacts caused by drugs, introduced because prohibition has failed

this would not suddenly make it ok to whip out a load of heroin and a few syringes at your average household get together.

even if it was fully legalised, people aren't thick enough to destroy their lives just because brian cowen says it's ok. there are some people who are thick enough to detroy their lives but they're already doing it. either way, what brian cowen says has little or no impact on someone's propensity to do drugs

AARRRGH

Sam Vimes wrote: »

you guessed my response:no it's not. you don't have to hang around street corners to get it, it's a lot easier than that

You can get good quality heroin from nice people easy enough?

Fair play to you.

Ask the average person if they can do the same.

I don't think they'll agree with you!

Sam Vimes wrote: »

you're vastly over estimating the power that "legalising" has. there's something that's far more important in the real world that determines whether that would happen or not: "social acceptability".

OK, here's another example for you:

A couple of teenagers get their hands on legal, Government endorsed cocaine or heroin. (This will happen all the time if drugs are legalised.)

You don't think there will be peer pressure to take it?

Before you say "sure that could happen now" I think it is absolutely reasonable to say the average teenager does not feel any peer pressure to take illegal, possibly dodgy, difficult to get, cocaine and heroin.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

even if it was fully legalised, people aren't thick enough to destroy their lives just because brian cowen says it's ok. there are some people who are thick enough to detroy their lives but they're already doing it. either way, what brian cowen says has little or no impact on someone's propensity to do drugs

Look how many people have destroyed their own lives and the lives around them due to alcohol.

At least one in four people are sexually abused. Alcohol has played a large part in that.

Many people are not mature enough to handle alcohol. The same would go for other drugs if they were legalised.