So what's the best barrier-free deal?

cormie

So with the removal of the barriers on the M50, what's the best deal to go for with the different companies taking care of the new tolling system does anyone know? I've a van and currently pay €3.40 for the M50 and would use it a few times a month.

Can this new system be used to pay for every toll in the country or is it just for the M50?

Any feedback appreciated

Anan1

I have eTrip through the AA, seemed the best value when I was choosing.

MarkN

cormie wrote: »

Can this new system be used to pay for every toll in the country or is it just for the M50?

Whatever you get it will work everywhere.

I just have an easypass, got it about 3 years ago, I think a lot of people that have them will just keep on using the same one and not bother to shop around.

Is there really a price difference between companies though?

Run_to_da_hills

cormie wrote: »

So with the removal of the barriers on the M50, what's the best deal to go for with the different companies taking care of the new tolling system does anyone know? I've a van and currently pay €3.40 for the M50 and would use it a few times a month.

Can this new system be used to pay for every toll in the country or is it just for the M50?

Any feedback appreciated

I drive a van also and am charged the 3.50 if even if it is empty. Your best bet is to invest in a GPS and press the toll avoidance option. This will save you both the 3.50 rip off charge and will also avoid you having to purchase any cumpulsory RFID electronic tracking devices that will be required in future to pass these places.

superjosh9

I reckon I'm gonna get penalty points for using my phone whilst driving when I forget about this, and am driving to the airport with no time to spare - and desperate to avoid further fines..!

My boat is:

I sometimes go weeks without using the M50, but every now and then I have spurts where I might have to use it for 5 days a week - and then straight after, not use it for 6 months again.

Having change in the pocket is an awful lot easier than thinking ahead - for me the M50 will be a subconscious weight on my mind - and apart from the sections that I know aren't tolled - it's likely that I'll stop using it when I can.

Suppose there's no point in whining about it - I see the N11 getting busy again though

superjosh9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Your best bet is to invest in a GPS and press the toll avoidance option. This will save you both the 3.50 charge and will also avoid you having to purchase any cumpulsory RFID electronic tracking devices that will be required in future to pass these places.

interesting...

Holsten

+1 for avoiding the M50 altogether.

DJ Hafez

What do tourists do? Is there still going to be one booth or something?

superjosh9

DJ Hafez wrote: »

What do tourists do? Is there still going to be one booth or something?

was wondering that too...

maybe the garda will set-up a new 'uber' division - designed to track down any rogue-tourists and take them in for questioning.

It will become known as 'the war on tourism' on these isles although I can hear Bush (why, I don't know) talking about the War on Tourer!

Run_to_da_hills

DJ Hafez wrote: »

What do tourists do? Is there still going to be one booth or something?

They can sail trough the barrier free zones but their registration plate will be photographed by the dozens of ANPR cameras. (Automatic number plate recognition cameras)

They will get a bill sent home to them giving them 2 weeks to pay the toll, failure of this they will be hit with a e40 fine.

Also with the new draconian big brother style FFID passport control being implemented between the UK and Ireland, Toll bridge offenders will be electronically picked up at port of exit leaving this country.

cormie

It's unavoidable a lot of the time. Take a trip to the airport from Dun Laoghaire, M50 = 26 miles 45 mins, €3.40 each way
Coast Road/East Link/Tunnel 13 miles = 40 mins, €5.50 minimum each way
Coast road through Dublin and on to M1 = can take up to 90 minutes sometimes.

100 miles = approx €30 in fuel, so the extra 10 miles for the M50 route will be an extra €3 approx, making it an extra euro and a few more minutes but then the port tunnel route could cost €8.50 some times each way.

The M50 will hopefully be a lot better once it's 3 lanes the whole way, it probably will still jam in places, but it's a lot better now than a few months ago anyway.

Anyway, it is unavoidable sometimes when tight on time and the extra miles and risk of heavy traffic on another route is not worth it.

Run to da hills, there's no real way for them to tell if a van is full or empty though but at least the vat can be claimed back

DJ Hafez

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They can sail trough the barrier free zones but their registration plate will be photographed by the dozens of ANPL cameras. (Automatic numberplate recognition cameras)

They will get a bill sent home to them giving them 2 weeks to pay the toll, failure of this they will be hit with a e40 fine.

Bit stupid being honest. They should have at least one booth :P

cormie

superjosh9 wrote: »

was wondering that too...

maybe the garda will set-up a new 'uber' division - designed to track down any rogue-tourists and take them in for questioning.

It will become known as 'the war on tourism' on these isles although I can hear Bush (why, I don't know) talking about the War on Tourer!

Happened with the Congestion charges in the UK and they are collection millions in owed monies from fines and are successfully doing so the last I read. If you drive from Holyhead to London, and take a rest along the way you should get there at just a few minutes past 6 to avoid the cost and the hassle

Run_to_da_hills

cormie wrote: »

Run to da hills, there's no real way for them to tell if a van is full or empty though

Easily, just look in the back of it :rolleyes:

cormie wrote: »

but at least the vat can be claimed back

Vat can only be claimed back if one is registered for vat, not everyone is

cormie

I can't see getting out to open the back door so they can get out of their booths to have a look in the back as a way forward for improving traffic flow

Yeah the VAT thing is only applicable for some alright, just do the "hand them a bunch of change you know isn't 3.40 and ask is that ok" trick

mcwhirter

So what is the best toll tag providers out there then?

daRobot

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They can sail trough the barrier free zones but their registration plate will be photographed by the dozens of ANPL cameras. (Automatic number plate recognition cameras)

They will get a bill sent home to them giving them 2 weeks to pay the toll, failure of this they will be hit with a e40 fine.

Also with the new draconian big brother style FFID passport control being implemented between the UK and Ireland, Toll bridge offenders will be electronically picked up at port of exit leaving this country.

Unlikely....Very Unlikely.

So these cameras will have a database of all the plates of Europe then? And if someone happens to be on longer than a 2 week holiday, or working over here for a month and use it about 10 times before they go back, do they get a 400 euro fine to their address?

And they'll be picked up at the Airport for not paying?

You're actually just making all this up aren't you.

superjosh9

I think I need to leave and go live in the outback in Australia or somewhere that I can speed and park and have a big engine and rwd and, even though I don't drink, take up drinking and then drive home from wherever it is that I am. And I'll take up smoking while I'm at it. And park on the kerb. And break red lights.. in a car that is legal to drive and pmo - even though if it was in Ireland it would fail the NCT - oh and where the only tax I pay would be included on fuel price - ooh which would also cover insurance too.

Oh - and where the 2800km train line stretching cross-country Australia from Darwin to Adelaide(was it?) costs the same as putting in a Luas system whose 23km of track doesn't meet - and for some reason isn't finished - unlike in Australia which finished ahead of time. Oh and wait - we're over-budget too.. and behind time. But sure, there's no rush.

Oh and btw, why is it above ground again? Oh no wait I forgot - we like to waste money and time - and the metro will be announced one of these days now.

And where building a road called the M50 - a road which is frankly the norm in 100 other countries, is paid for, manufactured with a cynical 2 lanes - and done so on purpose so that we arrive where we are now - paying again with our tax for exactly that same road we should have had all along - with a silly system of doing it.

Not to mention the fact that soon we won't be allowed to even drive into Dublin city-centre.

Of course, I'll take my issues to the government - job for job - paid amongst the highest wages in the world compared to their equivalents in the rest of the world. The taoiseach's salary is more than Bush and Brown, so as head-honcho - and even though no-one voted him in, I'll talk to him. Surely as a lawyer, he'll know what to do about this kind of stuff. And if he doesn't, I'll talk to our Minister of Finance. Again, as a lawyer, he'll know what to do - and surely have all the answers - as any account sorry, lawyer, would do.

Ohhhhh noooo wait! That's right, I forgot, it was Brown and Obama I saw on TV this morning, our guys - God forbid I should forget it - our guys are gone on Holiday...

On Holiday.

This place really is a joke..

That thread about the smart car has really got me thinking though..!

Anyway that someone here will run for election? I would like to vote in someone that has no interest in politics and talking and being 'the man'? I'll vote you in, the only pre-requisite is that you have some sense - and are not concerned with how you'll look in Europe. And that you have sense. And actually know stuff about what you are dealing with - so if you are a Minister for Finance or Transport - you actually know about each and even more, are interested in such things. Oh and that you have sense too!

cormie

So who offers the best deal again?

The tax man

E-flow site is charging €2.80(with a tag a/c) for goods vehicles with an unladen weight not exceeding 2,000kgs. I hadn't noticed this before,that eflow at least are going to class vans by weight. I think you've the "jumbo" roof transit cormie. The 350 lwb jumbo roof with the 100ps or 115ps engines(single rear wheel axle) models come in bang on 2,000kgs. All other jumbo roofs are over the limit.
I'm I right in thinking kerb weight would mean the same as unladen weight.
I use the M50 twice a day 5 days a week so that's looks like a bit of a saving for my Transit.Eazypass don't seem to be moving from their €3.40 blanket charge for vans of different sizes. Double check your models weight and check the Eflow prices. Video a/c comes in at €3.30.

cormie

Hmm, I don't even have the Jumbo, I just have the LWB/High Roof. I used to know what all the kerb/unladen crap meant when I was buying the van but I forget now here's a pdf from ford that I had which has details of all the transits, size, weight etc:

http://www.vantasks.ie/fordtransit.pdf

But why would one be 2.80 and the other 3.30? Do you have to pay to get the tag or something? Is it a monthly sub fee? I'm not sure if whatever the cost of it would be worth it with the amount of times I use the m50.

The tax man

There's a €1 monthly admin fee. Think most of them are charging this.The tags are free atm while stocks last:rolleyes: The difference in prices seem to be an incentive for people to choose the tag a/c over the video a/c. Most likely less work for them.

It's really about the amount of times you use the M50. It's worth it in my case. Have that pdf myself and was going through the weights and only noticed the saving that I could make.

cormie

ok, so as long as I make at least one return trip on the m50 every month, I'll be breaking even at least. €2.80 compared to €3.30 = 50c = €1 per return journey = the €1 paid for and then the rest is savings. Is that right? So this would be the best for us van folk do you reckon?

The tax man

Was just going through the account setup and I see you can opt for a post pay tag account. I likes that:D I've always hated the thought of my money sitting in their account earning them interest.Also no initial charge,from what I can make out, like you have with the pre-pay a/c.
Go to the a/c setup page and enter your reg number and it'll confirm your weight class as they see it.

€2.80 compared to €3.30 = 50c = €1 per return journey = the €1 paid for

Don't understand the last bit. Do you mean the €1 monthly admin fee? If so then yes I think you'd just break even for one return trip per month. I've only briefly looked into all this today. Till now I wasn't aware of the different charges for vans between the different toll operators. Some of the sites aren't too good at this info.

Run_to_da_hills

daRobot wrote: »

Unlikely....Very Unlikely.

So these cameras will have a database of all the plates of Europe then? .

If they didn't have a pan european database for registrations you would not have foreign cars driving here and visa versa. The US has also got any access to any of this information from this data base :eek:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3456019,00.html

A pan european database is being developed for tolls across the EU, presently all ourrent electronic toll passes are Interoperable In other words they will work in the UK, France, Germany and Spain ETC.
the EU.http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/logistics/report-35644.html

daRobot wrote: »

And if someone happens to be on longer than a 2 week holiday, or working over here for a month and use it about 10 times before they go back, do they get a 400 euro fine to their address?

And they'll be picked up at the Airport for not paying?



You're actually just making all this up aren't you.

The most likely candidates to be dodging the toll would be "drug dealers", "terrorists" and "joy riders" in stolen cars. You arrive at a cross border check and your offending car registers that you passed illegally through an electronic toll booth (Registration details picked up by the ANPL cameras) your will automatically be a criminal suspect and will be questioned at a border crossing.

Re toll dodgers and penalties, have you not been reading the papers?? http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/no-mercy-for-m50-toll-dodgers-as-state-calls-in-enforcers-1321236.html

knifey_spoonie

???

What do i do ??

I drive different cars for work could be 10 different ones, is it possible to get a tag that you swap and change from one to the other (When you register they ask for a reg)

Or

Do i have to just suck it up and pay the 3 euro

daRobot

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If they didn't have a pan european database for registrations you would not have foreign cars driving here and visa versa. The US has also got any access to any of this information from this data base :eek:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3456019,00.html

A pan european database is being developed for tolls across the EU, presently all ourrent electronic toll passes are Interoperable In other words they will work in the UK, France, Germany and Spain ETC.
the EU.http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/logistics/report-35644.html

The most likely candidates to be dodging the toll would be "drug dealers", "terrorists" and "joy riders" in stolen cars. You arrive at a cross border check and your offending car registers that you passed illegally through an electronic toll booth (Registration details picked up by the ANPL cameras) your will automatically be a criminal suspect and will be questioned at a border crossing.

Re toll dodgers and penalties, have you not been reading the papers?? http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/no-mercy-for-m50-toll-dodgers-as-state-calls-in-enforcers-1321236.html

Well, they're hardly going to suggest leniency with regard to toll evading are they.

The indo article says this aswell:

"The NRA admitted that when barrier-free tolling is introduced next August, some motorists from outside Ireland will try to escape paying the charge.

Not until a pan-European database of vehicle registrations was available could it guarantee that all vehicles would pay the toll, it said"

So this pan European database isn't available to them is what they're saying.

And what makes you assume that Toll dodgers are going to be Terrorists and Drug Dealers aswell? A tad sensationalist, no?

My point is, outside Ireland, it won't be enforced. You can choose to believe word for word what the Indo writes with their NRA "bounty hunter" waffle, but it's like anything else in the papers, you have to interpret that info against what is likely to happen in the real world.

For example, are they chasing up Foreign reg cars for parking fines abroad, even though they're almost x 30 times the cost of the toll? Can't ever remember hearing about teams of disgruntled Paddys wandering round Lativa looking for their 60 quid..

cormie

The tax man wrote: »

Don't understand the last bit. Do you mean the €1 monthly admin fee? If so then yes I think you'd just break even for one return trip per month. I've only briefly looked into all this today. Till now I wasn't aware of the different charges for vans between the different toll operators. Some of the sites aren't too good at this info.

Yeah the admin fee, so basically, if there is a €12 admin fee a year and the savings per go are 50c compared to the regular price, if you go through it 25 times a year, then you're saving 50c for every go after that. I think?

Is the €2.80 charge just for the M50 do you know?

How many different options are there for us van drivers between the different companies? Are there only 2 companies, eflow and easypass?

Max_Damage

So what's the best barrier-free deal?

Fake reg. plates.

Run_to_da_hills

Max_Damage wrote: »

Fake reg. plates.

Your fake rag will have to be cloned from an EXACT same model and colour car, it would then also have to be taxed, insured and not stolen or previously scrapped. Try driving a false plate through the toll bridge and the Automatic number recognition system (ANPR) will trigger off alarm bells.

ANPL is capable of two things data capture i.e. getting your reg plate and also data exchange and analysis.

In the UK data is stored from the ANPR system for two years so that if an offending car is pulled in by the cops records will taken from this data base going back 2 years as evidence,

Since London introduced the congestion charge thousands of drivers using fake plates have been arrested. You can guarantee there will be plenty of Gardai on traffic ramps and hidden ANPR cams on gantries from one end of the M50 to the other and on every other motorway that has a toll, as well as up to 50 Gardai cars specially fitted with these ANPR cameras waiting to pounce on these offenders

cormie

what about no reg plates?

The tax man

cormie wrote: »

Is the €2.80 charge just for the M50 do you know?

Are there only 2 companies, eflow and easypass?

Good question but I'm not sure.Their site says you can use the tag on e-tolls around the country but doesn't mention anything about prices. They seem to be mainly about the M50.

Quote from the Herald:

Other toll operators will include Eazy Pass; Eirtag; Mini-Tag; Pass Direct; eTrip in association with the Dublin Port Tunnel; eTrip; ParkMagic (pay-as-you-go) and ParkMagic (pay monthly).

mcwhirter

cormie wrote: »

what about no reg plates?

Yes, that is a valid question though as I have seen in the past brand new cars and vans with no reg plate on them. So what happens to them?

Run_to_da_hills

cormie wrote: »

what about no reg plates?

Perhaps someone could develop a stealth car like this one that could avoid being detected by any of the cameras.

chickenhawk

mcwhirter wrote: »

Yes, that is a valid question though as I have seen in the past brand new cars and vans with no reg plate on them. So what happens to them?

Eeeeeehhhhhhh............nothing.;)

mcwhirter

chickenhawk wrote: »

Eeeeeehhhhhhh............nothing.;)

Seems to be a few discrepancies then, the gardai enforce one thing and not another, the usual rubbish from them!

Run_to_da_hills

chickenhawk wrote: »

Eeeeeehhhhhhh............nothing.;)

Its now an offence for any member of the public to drive an unregistered van or car on the road, those days with "FOR REG" are long gone, They now must be registered before they leave the dealer forecourt.


Any unregistered car or van driven by the trade must gave Garage plates. I presume they can no longer place these behind the windshield as the ANPR cameras will have difficulty reading them, most other countries insist on magnetic trade plates.

chickenhawk

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its now an offence for any member of the public to drive an unregistered van or car on the road, those days with "FOR REG" are long gone, They now must be registered before they leave the dealer forecourt.

Yea but unless the guards catch you, technically, you could drive through a barrier free toll and they would never catch you. I'm not advising it, just saying it is possible.

cormie

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

magnetic

Now there's an idea, magnetic plate, magnetic bumper

Hal1

I don't know if it was suggested before but you could try this (<--link)idea . I'm joking mod's of course.:D

stratos

superjosh9 wrote: »

I think I need to leave and go live in the outback in Australia or somewhere that I can speed and park and have a big engine and rwd and, even though I don't drink, take up drinking and then drive home from wherever it is that I am. And I'll take up smoking while I'm at it. And park on the kerb. And break red lights.. in a car that is legal to drive and pmo - even though if it was in Ireland it would fail the NCT - oh and where the only tax I pay would be included on fuel price - ooh which would also cover insurance too.

!

Thats not Australia your describing, thats Cavan :eek: or pretty much anywhere in the countryside:D

Run_to_da_hills

The hit "Don't stop me now" by Queen is being Destroyed and overplayed by a current TV commercial used for selling their barrier free "spy chips"

gary the great

All tis tlak of vans, whats the cheapest for cars. i use the m50 once a month and couldnt be arsed buying tags and all this crap and paying admin fees - i'll probably just take the exit before the toll and then get back on after the toll....

cormie

Have a few posts been deleted from this thread or am I just going a bit cuckoo?

Silvera

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its now an offence for any member of the public to drive an unregistered van or car on the road, those days with "FOR REG" are long gone, They now must be registered before they leave the dealer forecourt.


Any unregistered car or van driven by the trade must gave Garage plates. I presume they can no longer place these behind the windshield as the ANPR cameras will have difficulty reading them, most other countries insist on magnetic trade plates.

The current Trade Plates are only supposed to be displayed inside the front and rear windows of vehicles (except where there is no rear window...in which case the rear plate must be attached to the rear of the vehicle by another means).
I suspect that the powers-that-be havent really thought much about trade plates not showing up on ANPR cameras?! Though perhaps the cameras take a picture of the whole of the rear of vehicles...therefore they would catch a pic of a trade plate in the rear window .... IF it's properly displayed.

I recall reading that number plate offences will soon be dealt with by way of a ticket (rather than summons) because of the M50, etc going toll free.

Expect to see plenty of folks getting compliant with their reg plates, plates on trailers, trade plates etc in the coming months ...or face a ticket!

RE Trade Plates ...alternatively they may return to the way the pre-93 plates where displayed ...by attaching them with straps to the front and rear ...or clipping them on as in this pic...

Run_to_da_hills

Silvera wrote: »

The current Trade Plates are only supposed to be displayed inside the front and rear windows of vehicles (except where there is no rear window...in which case the rear plate must be attached to the rear of the vehicle by another means).
I suspect that the powers-that-be havent really thought much about trade plates not showing up on ANPR cameras?! Though perhaps the cameras take a picture of the whole of the rear of vehicles...therefore they would catch a pic of a trade plate in the rear window .... IF it's properly displayed. ...

I can see them changing this in the coming months, Photographing a plate behind glass would give off a glare, it would also leave it open for abuse with people trying to cheat using fake trade plates. I can see a big clamp down on both having non standard plates and probably also making it an offence to manufacture them.

As you say it will probably be an offence to write your reg plate with marker on a set of tralier lights. Type approval is great, I can still take out my vintage motorbike that has its registration number written on the rear mudguard by hand in white paint and use it legally.

As more and more cop cars will have ANPR cameras fitted as standard they will simply just pull you over if your registration cannot be read through the system.

The tax man

cormie wrote: »

Have a few posts been deleted from this thread or am I just going a bit cuckoo?

What's missing??

cormie

Couldn't tell you what was missing, just thought there were more posts

Anyway, I just realised why eflow is 2.80, because there's 0% VAT compared to 21% like before. Toll costs at the bridge have now gone down too, I paid 2.80 yesterday instead of the regular 3.40, but again, it's only because there is no VAT. So 2.80 isn't a saving at all if you can claim the VAT back, but the cheek of them charging 3.30 for the other methods of payment which you can claim none of back :mad:

Matt Simis

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

ANPL is capable of two things data capture i.e. getting your reg plate and also data exchange and analysis.

Are you saying the ANPL system automatically searches the reg, then compares this to the car and colour its expects to see... all automatically!?

Ive signed up for 2x TollTags (Tolltag.ie) as I like their simple no fuss system and Im a very casual user of Tolls, however I really dont like the idea of a toll camera checking my car colour, tax etc (even though those things are correct). Does it do anything with the reg if you have an ETag in the window or only if you drive through with no tag (and therefore no on the spot payment)?

Cionád

Matt Simis wrote: »

Does it do anything with the reg if you have an ETag in the window or only if you drive through with no tag (and therefore no on the spot payment)?

I don't think it does but if for any reason it doesn't recognize the tag when you pass through it will check your registration against their database to check if you have signed up for a tag and then charge you on the tag.

That's what the eazypass people emailed me anyways.

Our man in Havana

Can those tags be read at speed? On the existing toll plazas you nearly have to stop before the tags are acknowledged by the system.