lying b*****ds

bop1977

what Assistant Commissioner Eddie Rock, head of the Traffic Corps said,

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20080316/ai_n24936945

what his boys in blue did:

luncan to naas rd (R136) just past the penny hill pub friday 25 07 08 5pm

notice how they tuck in behind the bus shelter

peasant

from the article:

He said: "We will not be looking to shoot fish in a barrel.

"If we wanted, we could put detectors on areas like the M50 or the main roads to the North, the West and the South and check the speed of thousands of cars.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong ...but the R136 is hardly the M50 ..so be a bit careful who you call a liar

Guy:Incognito

bop1977 wrote: »

what Assistant Commissioner Eddie Rock, head of the Traffic Corps said,

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20080316/ai_n24936945

what his boys in blue did:

luncan to naas rd (R136) just past the penny hill pub friday 25 07 08 5pm

notice how they tuck in behind the bus shelter

Where should they park it? In the bus lane?

"shooting fish in a barrell" doesnt really wash with me. The law is clearly set outand if people choose not to obey it then its tough if they are caught. Can drug dealers complain about Garda sting operations because the Gards didnt ring ahead and warn them?

If seen some absolutely appaling driving behaviour on that stretch of road so anything that cops people on a bit is ok with me. Might not stop people undertaking in the bus lane or cutting in having used them but at least it might make them act up at a slower pace

bop1977

Stekelly wrote: »

Where should they park it? In the bus lane?/QUOTE]

how about where drivers can see them, im thinking maybe the penny hill side of the bus stop.

if there is really bad driving behaviour, then the gaurds should be highly visable on the road to deter people.

cyclopath2001

bop1977 wrote: »

if there is really bad driving behaviour, then the gaurds should be highly visable on the road to deter people.

It would be very expensive to have a visible Garda presence everywhere. Keeping people guessing about where they might be caught is more cost effective. The fact that people behave differently when they think they might be caught, proves the point that discipline and not education is the problem to be addressed.

sharkman

Why not sent the pictures to AC Eddie Rock and see what he says . They do the same just after the DPT on the way into Town . Pure money making , Nothing to do with road safety . Lazy B's if you ask me !

buzzard

Doesn’t matter where you are obeying or exceeding the speed limit that is entrapment.

This country is gone to the dogs, catching people doing a few miles an hour over the speed limit is completely OTT. As for the do-gooders, don't get me started.

Why doesn’t that van go up to Donegal on the road between Letterkenny and Moville where at least 10 people have lost their lives over the last 2 years.

Most in this forum would agree that majority of the fatalities in this country are occurring on the backroads but the guards won't police these roads because of health & safety issues.

Let the debate being !!!!!!!!!!!

peasant

buzzard wrote: »

Let the debate being !!!!!!!!!!!

Begin, you mean?

Yawn ...this has been done a gazillion times before

cyclopath2001

buzzard wrote: »

Doesn’t matter where you are obeying or exceeding the speed limit that is entrapment.

Have you done any research into the legal meaning of entrapment? I'm sure you'll find that it usually involves an illegal act by the police which encouraged an otherwise law-abiding citizen to break the law.

Now, if my definition is correct, what illegal act has been committed by the Gardai, that supports your describing, what appears to me to be no more than a 'detection' as being an 'entrapment'?

Wishbone Ash

buzzard wrote: »

Doesn’t matter where you are obeying or exceeding the speed limit that is entrapment

Is the speed limit posted on the road? If it is, it is hardly entrapment! It not as if the motorist has to guess the limit.

sharkman wrote:

Pure money making

What is the problem with it being "money making"? To donate to this particular fund is totally voluntary. Those who obey the regulations don't need to part with any money.

ninty9er

buzzard wrote: »

This country is gone to the dogs, catching people doing a few miles an hour over the speed limit is completely OTT. As for the do-gooders, don't get me started.

It's probably (but I'm not sure) calibrated to be a few km/h above the posted limit.

buzzard wrote: »

Why doesn’t that van go up to Donegal on the road between Letterkenny and Moville where at least 10 people have lost their lives over the last 2 years.

Because there's nowhere to park it maybe!

buzzard

Peasant,

Yes, this has being debated before but people are getting tired on this type of law enforcement. I would be the first to put my hands up if I was in the wrong, but a Gatos van stuck behind a bus shelter is a bit much. Getting points for going over a speed limit by a few miles mph is allot different by excessive speed. Reality has to prevail.

Cyclopath2001,

If I parked up on a footpath causing an obstruction would I get a fine? What about a someone walking down that path with a pram or someone with a guide dog. I have seen this type of enforcement completely blocking a footbath but what is done about that ?

The purpose about this is that it is sneaky and it changes people attitude about the Garda.

Guy:Incognito

buzzard wrote: »

If I parked up on a footpath causing an obstruction would I get a fine? What about a someone walking down that path with a pram or someone with a guide dog. I have seen this type of enforcement completely blocking a footbath but what is done about that ?
.

It's causing no more obstruction than the bus shelter.

Wishbone Ash

buzzard wrote: »

people are getting tired on this type of law enforcement

What people? Those who wish to break the law but won't take responsibility for their actions?

buzzard wrote:

Getting points for going over a speed limit by a few miles mph is allot different by excessive speed. Reality has to prevail.

The vast majority of those caught for exceeding the speed limit are exceeding the posted limit by more than 50%.


If you obey the regulations you won't have to worry where any speed detectors are located. It's really quite simple.

buzzard

It's a no win situation here is it !!!!

But at least the bus shelter has planning permission

Guy:Incognito

buzzard wrote: »

It's a no win situation here is it !!!!

But at least the bus shelter has planning permission

Since when do vans need planning permission?

Wishbone Ash

buzzard wrote: »

If I parked up on a footpath causing an obstruction would I get a fine? What about a someone walking down that path with a pram or someone with a guide dog. I have seen this type of enforcement completely blocking a footbath but what is done about that?

Look at the pics again - the van is parked on the footpath but it is not blocking it.

Presumably you are a private citizen and therefore prohibited from parking on a footpath. The gardai are exempt from such restrictions and therefore the issue of you being fined is irrelevant.

cyclopath2001

buzzard wrote: »

If I parked up on a footpath causing an obstruction would I get a fine? What about a someone walking down that path with a pram or someone with a guide dog. I have seen this type of enforcement completely blocking a footbath but what is done about that ?

I think you'll find that the Gardai can override some road traffic rules for operational reasons. No doubt, they consider the safety/inconvenience aspects when they do. If you feel strongly about it, you can complain. Personally, I think the ombudsman would probably tell you to get a grip.

But, as to entrapment, I can't see how carefully parking on the path while detecting law-breaking speeders could be actually be the cause of the speeding. That's what you would have to argue if you wanted to convince a judge that entrapment had occurred. Now, if the Gatso van was to be obscuring a speed limit sign....that would be a different matter.

astraboy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

It would be very expensive to have a visible Garda presence everywhere. Keeping people guessing about where they might be caught is more cost effective. The fact that people behave differently when they think they might be caught, proves the point that discipline and not education is the problem to be addressed.

Yes, Education is NOT the answer! Catch people breaking the limit by 2kph though and send them a letter 3 weeks later. That'll save lives!:rolleyes:

At the risk of a ban.

You

Are

A

Clown

(Just saying what most people on here think. Your like a fly to a light with speeding threads.)

peasant

astraboy wrote: »

At the risk of a ban.

Well ..if you know that you shouldn't ...why do you keep doing it?

Final warning ...put cyclopath on ignore if you must ,but stop insulting him or you will take a break from this forum

Seth Brundle

+1!
This type of thread always brings out strong opposing views and there is no point in trying to convert the other side! However,

unkel

To anyone unfamiliar with that road, it is the outer ring road (ORR). It connects the N4 via the N7 to the N81. It is the outer orbital ring road outside the inner orbital ring road (the M50) and it was designed to take some pressure off the M50

When it was just a local road, the speed limit was 50MPH there for years. Then they redesigned the road, making it a lot safer (from single carriageway to single carriageway plus unused buslanes, lanes in opposite directions being physically separated, dedicated pedestrian crossings with traffic lights, cycle lanes, footpaths, etc.) and wait for it, they reduced the speed limit to a ridiculously low new level.

Go stand behind that bus shelter and try and find a single car driving below the current speed limit. You'll be there a while.

Shooting fish in a barrel? Yes.

Guy:Incognito

astraboy wrote: »

Yes, Education is NOT the answer! Catch people breaking the limit by 2kph though and send them a letter 3 weeks later. That'll save lives!:rolleyes:

I'll bet you no one has evidence of being fined for being 2kmph over the limit.

unkel wrote: »

To anyone unfamiliar with that road, it is the outer ring road (ORR). It connects the N4 via the N7 to the N81. It is the outer orbital ring road outside the inner orbital ring road (the M50) and it was designed to take some pressure off the M50

When it was just a local road, the speed limit was 50MPH there for years. Then they redesigned the road, making it a lot safer (from single carriageway to single carriageway plus unused buslanes, lanes in opposite directions being physically separated, dedicated pedestrian crossings with traffic lights, cycle lanes, footpaths, etc.) and wait for it, they reduced the speed limit to a ridiculously low new level.

Go stand behind that bus shelter and try and find a single car driving below the current speed limit. You'll be there a while.

Shooting fish in a barrel? Yes.

None of the reasons change the fact that there is a posted speed limit. Theres nothing forcing people over that limit only their own decision to do so. The section around there also has houses and estates bordering it.

CLADA

unkel wrote: »

Go stand behind that bus shelter and try and find a single car driving below the current speed limit. You'll be there a while.

Shooting fish in a barrel? Yes.

So its a road where habitual offenders constantly break the speed limit.

unkel

Stekelly wrote: »

the fact that there is a posted speed limit

Yes there is a posted speed limit. Yes everyone that breaks the speed limit, breaks the law. If caught they will face a fixed fine and points on their license.

Phew, glad I got that out of the way. No need to discuss that element of speed checks here again. Now let's go to what matters - the morality of speed checks, especially given the promise from the Assistant Commissioner, not to shoot fish in barrels.

I truly believe the current posted speed limit there is wrong (remember, previously it was the equivalent of 80km/h when the road was a lot less safe). It is too low for that road. It is not unsafe to break the speed limit on that road by some limit under some circumstances imho. Penalising people for doing so fits exactly what is meant by shooting fish in barrels...

Stevie Dakota

Won't someone think of the fish?

dubman25

The guards haha sure they dont have much power...just about enough to do you for speeding and tax:Dmore interested in doing you for these instead of getting s*um off the streets!

CharlieCroker

:mad::mad::mad:Christ lads, the Garda bashing that comes from some people on boards is headwrecking. I'm starting in templemore next week and i'm extremely proud of the fact.
besides that, the only contact that 95% of the population has with the guards is when they are behind the wheel of their car and then it's normally when they've done something wrong(speed/tax/NCT,etc.)

Most of you should be happy about that 'cos it means you aren't in the other 5% who are either the criminals that need to be stopped or else the victims of their crimes who need assistance.

Most of those who enjoy garda bashing need to thank their lucky stars that the worst dealing they've had with the guards is a speeding ticket that they wouldn't have gotten if thay hadn't been speeding.

Rant over

dubman25

CharlieCroker wrote: »

:mad::mad::mad:Christ lads, the Garda bashing that comes from some people on boards is headwrecking. I'm starting in templemore next week and i'm extremely proud of the fact.
besides that, the only contact that 95% of the population has with the guards is when they are behind the wheel of their car and then it's normally when they've done something wrong(speed/tax/NCT,etc.)

Most of you should be happy about that 'cos it means you aren't in the other 5% who are either the criminals that need to be stopped or else the victims of their crimes who need assistance.

Most of those who enjoy garda bashing need to thank their lucky stars that the worst dealing they've had with the guards is a speeding ticket that they wouldn't have gotten if thay hadn't been speeding.

Rant over

the guards give themselves a bad name!like lets be honest what powers do they have????????they would rather do a tax car check rather than go down the road and get the real criminals:cool:

CharlieCroker

dubman25 wrote: »

the guards give themselves a bad name!like lets be honest what powers do they have????????they would rather do a tax car check rather than go down the road and get the real criminals:cool:

I'm not gonna deny there are some lazy ones, the same as in all jobs.
But tarring them all with same brush is over the top.
That's like saying ALL postmen lose your post or ALL Lifeguards are 6'2 and have a 6 pack. We all know thats not true so why do some people believe that all Guards are lazy [EMAIL="b@5s"]b@5s[/EMAIL]tards????

JHMEG

This it totally OT, but imho the gardaí are only effective in rural environments, recovering stolen livestock and such like.

They're lost in urban environments and I think the fueding in Limerick city is proof of that. I've my own personal experiences that suggest that the gardaí in and around Dublin are more talk than action when it actually comes to crime against ordinary citizens.

dubman25

CharlieCroker wrote: »

I'm not gonna deny there are some lazy ones, the same as in all jobs.
But tarring them all with same brush is over the top.
That's like saying ALL postmen lose your post or ALL Lifeguards are 6'2 and have a 6 pack. We all know thats not true so why do some people believe that all Guards are lazy b@5stards????

Because they run away from the trouble...a checkpoint there and 2 mins away sc*mbags getting on with life.Also you dont see garda at rush hour traffic.they have know power end of story!:Dwell sorry just with tax and insurance they do!

CharlieCroker

well, your all entitled to your opinions. I dont agree with them but i respect them so i'm not getting into an arguement about it.
I just hope that in the future, if you REALLY need a Garda to help you with something, they'll change your opinion.


PS Dubman, it's NO power, not KNOW power!!!!!!!

dubman25

CharlieCroker wrote: »

well, your all entitled to your opinions. I dont agree with them but i respect them so i'm not getting into an arguement about it.
I just hope that in the future, if you REALLY need a Garda to help you with something, they'll change your opinion.

Well i pay towards there wages and in my view they do not protect the public!They are just as bad as the judges in the courts!:rolleyes:

Ps..use capitals at the start!

jimmycrackcorm

Stekelly wrote: »

Where should they park it? In the bus lane?

That Green transit used to park on the road side on the liffey valley overpass.

It's time the Guards got a new van seeing as the situation is so bad that so many people can recognise that van now that they have to start hiding it.

Bee

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

It would be very expensive to have a visible Garda presence everywhere. Keeping people guessing about where they might be caught is more cost effective. The fact that people behave differently when they think they might be caught, proves the point that discipline and not education is the problem to be addressed.

A professional Garda traffic corps that applies the law evenly to all road users is what is required , all the GArdai achieve by this behaviour is public opprobrium and contempt and achieves nothing for road safety.

This contemptible and useless mis-management of Garda resources has been proven over time to do nothing to reduce fatal accidents, shame on them.

Their apologist pretends that they are not interested in "shooting fish in a barrel" whilst the these boys holding their tools behind bus shelters achieves nought for road safety but only alienates the public.

I suggest they should be re-appointed to other duties if they decided this was a good idea and if as I suspect their "management" thought this is a way of enforcing road safety, well then they should be sacked.

Guy:Incognito

Bee wrote: »

A professional Garda traffic corps that applies the law evenly to all road users is what is required , all the GArdai achieve by this behaviour is public opprobrium and contempt and achieves nothing for road safety.

This contemptible and useless mis-management of Garda resources has been proven over time to do nothing to reduce fatal accidents, shame on them.

Their apologist pretends that they are not interested in "shooting fish in a barrel" whilst the these boys holding their tools behind bus shelters achieves nought for road safety but only alienates the public.

I suggest they should be re-appointed to other duties if they decided this was a good idea and if as I suspect their "management" thought this is a way of enforcing road safety, well then they should be sacked.

At the end of the day, Gatso cameras and the like are a simple soution as it allows a Garda to go about other duties so uses less man power. If unmanned cameras could be set up to stop and catch drug dealers nobody would have a problem as it would be a simple and cost effective solution to a problem. But the issue here is it affects the normal "im only dreakign a law I dont agree with anyway" joe, so i gets peoples backs up.

dubman25 wrote: »

The gardai in ireland are a disgrace,along with the traffic corps etc!

Are the traffic cops not Gardai now? or are they grown in a lab? I hate all those Gardai in England and France myself. The Germany Gardai arent the worst.:rolleyes:

BTW, should that not be Guardai?

CharlieCroker

So what if the van is at the side of the road???
If your not speeding i.e. breaking the law, then its not a problem!!
If you are speeding, then you get your fine and your 2 points and maybe if your intelligent, you'll slow down in future.
It's not rocket science.

the_syco

You see sop, cop car, etc, you slow down. You speed, you get fined two weeks later. By then, you could already have knocked down someone whilst speeding.

I'm more for the "we're watching you" big brother style policing, rather than the "ha ha we saw you two weeks ago speeding" that the gatso vans are used for.

Guy:Incognito

the_syco wrote: »

You see sop, cop car, etc, you slow down. You speed, you get fined two weeks later. By then, you could already have knocked down someone whilst speeding.

I'm more for the "we're watching you" big brother style policing, rather than the "ha ha we saw you two weeks ago speeding" that the gatso vans are used for.

Most people will know straight away that they at the very least passed the camera whileover the limit, because they see the camera as they go past, They certainly see the lines on the road and/or the flash for fised cameras and can spot a Gard in his vis gear. So it's not usually a case of total surprise when it drops through the letterbox.

agent_smith

To be honest I believe that the money could be better used elsewhere. Given the current economic climate the mental health system will be hit hard next year due to government cutbacks. Instead of increasing the shoot fish in barrel budget ( targeting main roads instead of back roads) I would prefer that the increased budget was given to the mental health system.
Alternatively if the government does want to increase the Garda budget next year, why not pump the extra money into targeting the drug gangs in dublin, cork and limerick. How many lives lost each year to capital crimes such as murder and homicide in our nations cities?
Another potential use of this money ... provide help for the people that i see strung out on a daily basis at the luas stop on middle abbey street. Or at least pump extra cash into child welfare. Often times you will see parents strung out and their baby sitting watching them in a pram. Frightening stuff.
A friend of mine works at a local primary school and she has told me that the school does not have the budget for an additional special needs teacher that is urgently required.... why not pump the extra money into this... ?
I could go on....

I suppose my point is that there are areas of society that we could all agree would be better served if additional money was provided. I have no problem with the gardai, they are people doing their jobs under the law and the instructions of the RSA. My problem like many here is that most 'road safety campaigns' appear (at least to the general public), to be money making schemes and not designed to target real danger hotspots.

Dont even get me started on the RSA's recent decision to ban bikers from bus lanes... their 'evidence' is in stark contrast to other european states.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/motoring/2008/01/26/mflane126.xml

shazkeav

Hang on a mo...Arent GATSO cameras rear facing(out the small square 'special' window at the back). What were they trying to catch? The spEed of the bus shelter!! Garda generally use a handheld device for the front side....

zero19

the_syco wrote: »

You see sop, cop car, etc, you slow down. You speed, you get fined two weeks later. By then, you could already have knocked down someone whilst speeding.

I'm more for the "we're watching you" big brother style policing, rather than the "ha ha we saw you two weeks ago speeding" that the gatso vans are used for.

+1 They should be out and visable preventing accidents rather than hiding in a ditch handing out fines a few weeks later...

peasant

for everybodies info

I've done some massive pruning to this thread and cut out all the off topic waffle that happened overnight.

@dubman 25
pull of something like that again and you're taking a long break from here

cyclopath2001

agent_smith wrote: »

My problem like many here is that most 'road safety campaigns' appear (at least to the general public), to be money making schemes and not designed to target real danger hotspots.

Another point of view would be that everyone thinks that the Gardai should be enforcing against someone else. When I got my first (and second last) speeding ticket many years ago, it shook me out of a smug conceit that I was a better driver than most.

agent_smith wrote: »

Dont even get me started on the RSA's recent decision to ban bikers from bus lanes...

Just to clarify: motorcyclists have always been forbidden from using use bus lanes, just as cars are. It's not a recent decision. I agree that it is a topic that merits a well-considered discussion elsewhere.

Eru

buzzard wrote: »

The purpose about this is that it is sneaky and it changes people attitude about the Garda.

Allow me too suggest that Gardai and police in general SHOULD be sneaky.

Perhaps it would be better if all plain clothes, surveillance and undercover work was abandoned then sit back and wait for criminals to get a good solid dose of conscience.

As for sending this van too Donegal or wherever, you do realise there is more than one don’t you? And they operate within the divisions they are assigned to. For example, its possible that there is a gatso van parked up on a road that you didn’t actually travel on. That sounds shocking I know, police doing something that you personally didn’t witness but it could happen.

ninty9er

dubman25 wrote: »

The guards haha sure they dont have much power...just about enough to do you for speeding and tax:Dmore interested in doing you for these instead of getting s*um off the streets!

So would you prefer there were 2 Gardaí at the site 24/7 to inspect you vehicle as well as giving you points and a fine, or would you rather they were catching the scum, because they can't be in 2 places at once!

dubman25

peasant wrote: »

for everybodies info

I've done some massive pruning to this thread and cut out all the off topic waffle that happened overnight.

@dubman 25
pull of something like that again and you're taking a long break from here

Hold on a minute,this site is for giving your views so no point in pointing the finger at somebody who gives there views now is there!!!!

reported

peasant

dubman25 wrote: »

reported

...and now banned instead of just warned for ca 20 posts of off topic waffle and trolling

cpoh1

Setting aside the fact that the camera should be on that stretch of road or not do people think the gatso should be there to catch people speeding and sending fines out 3 weeks later after they have sped down the road at 20kph over the limit? Or would people prefer the camera to be signposted at the top of the road, have people slow down and pass through the area at or under the speed limit?

One of these options involves road safety the other invloves revenue collection. Is the idea of a speed camera to collect money for the goernment coffers or get people to slow down?

CharlieCroker

cpoh1 wrote: »

Setting aside the fact that the camera should be on that stretch of road or not do people think the gatso should be there to catch people speeding and sending fines out 3 weeks later after they have sped down the road at 20kph over the limit? Or would people prefer the camera to be signposted at the top of the road, have people slow down and pass through the area at or under the speed limit?

One of these options involves road safety the other invloves revenue collection. Is the idea of a speed camera to collect money for the goernment coffers or get people to slow down?

So you can speed up again after you're past the van/speedgun?
That means you only slow down when you know there's a speedcheck and go along as normal otherwise. But if you don't know where the speedchecks are, hopefully you'll slow down the whole time.
yes, you get the ticket a couple of weeks later, but thats just a logistical issue. the result is the same, you get your fine, get your 2 points and with luck you'll slow down in future so you don't get caught again.