Video: Fiat 500 vs Audi Q7 in a crash test

Moses7 · 25-07-2008 4:08pm #1

Even though Fiat is a lot smaller I think it stands against a bigger Q7 quit well. What amazes me is the inside video. The way things move when car crashes in slow motion makes you think what if...

Click here to see the video

Slig · 25-07-2008 4:13pm

is it just me or did the fiat drivers head completely miss the air bags?

L1011 · 25-07-2008 4:20pm

Slig wrote: »

is it just me or did the fiat drivers head completely miss the air bags?

Quite clearly didn't miss it. Back on it looks like it as you're seeing it at an angle, side on its clear it it hit it. Its a 5 star NCAP car - airbag 'problems' usually automatically reduce you to one slashed star like the Navara had.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 4:21pm

the fiat drivers head slipped off the airbag and hit the door, i'd be suprised a human would survive that bang!!?

The passenger didn't seem to fair too well either, the pictures from inside the fiat show his neck piece coming loose. :eek:

L1011 · 25-07-2008 4:25pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

the fiat drivers head slipped off the airbag and hit the door, i'd be suprised a human would survive that bang!!?

The passenger didn't seem to fair too well either, the pictures from inside the fiat show his neck piece coming loose. :eek:

It has a side cushion bag - his head could not have hit the door. Did you manage to completely avoid seeing the side on footage?

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 4:27pm

MYOB wrote: »

It has a side cushion bag - his head could not have hit the door. Did you manage to completely avoid seeing the side on footage?

watch the video, it clearly hits the door!

Steve · 25-07-2008 4:28pm

Looked to me like the airbag burst on the RHS front - pushing his head to the left.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 4:33pm

pretty clear i think...?

ToxicPaddy · 25-07-2008 4:38pm

Wouldnt like to be in that Fiat, the crumple zone looks to have been completely overcome by the Q7 and whoever was in the driver seat would have had their legs completely crushed.. ugh!! :eek:

The airbag looks to have burst to me and the drivers head missed it, but I could be wrong..

Tox

Vertakill · 25-07-2008 4:43pm

Jesus I'd seriously hate to be in that Fiat in that crash.

AudiChris posted that on the thread regarding the Maybach Smart car. and he did it to show how bad a small car is against a big car.

At least 1 of the Fiat people would be dead in a real life situation like that and I'm not particularly impressed by the airbag bursting...

And all this from a vehicle with a superior NCAP rating? Just goes to show how relative the NCAP rating is to the situation.

egan007 · 25-07-2008 4:47pm

Airbags are not designed to keep you from getting a headake. They are designed to help you not die. The dummy does hit the side but the force has been absorbed by the airbag at this stage. I'd' happily walk away from this crash with only anadin required. The bags don't burst they deflate immediately to prevent you smothering.

Anan1 · 25-07-2008 4:50pm

I find it quite amazing that something the size of a Q7 can't even manage 5 stars in the euro NCAP, something FIAT can manage even in a supermini.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 4:51pm

egan007 wrote: »

Airbags are not designed to keep you from getting a headake. They are designed to help you not die. The dummy does hit the side but the force has been absorbed by the airbag at this stage. I'd' happily walk away from this crash with only anadin required. The bags don't burst they deflate immediately to prevent you smothering.

so your keen eyes can tell how much force was acting on the dummies head? :rolleyes:

Matt Simis · 25-07-2008 4:53pm

Here is another small vs large, Polo (900KG ish) vs Phaeton (2.6tons):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFMrx3BGXpQ

And they say mass is doesnt matter anymore thanks to crumple zones..

Matt Simis · 25-07-2008 4:58pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I find it quite amazing that something the size of a Q7 can't even manage 5 stars in the euro NCAP, something FIAT can manage even in a supermini.

Bear in mind that you lose points in Euro NCAP tests for lack of stickers warning about assorted junk, which makes the whole 4star vs 5star thing a wee bit misleading no?

Seems to have done well anyhow:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/audi_q7_2006/262.aspx

egan007 · 25-07-2008 5:03pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

so your keen eyes can tell how much force was acting on the dummies head? :rolleyes:

Er...no mr rolleyes i leave that up to NCAP.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 5:08pm

egan007 wrote: »

Er...no mr rolleyes i leave that up to NCAP.

Er...that wasn't a NCAP test, genius! it was a german ADAC test.

NCAP test involves hitting a stationary deformable test rig, not a moving Audi Q7.

NCAP result has nothing to do with the test shown in the video...

Anan1 · 25-07-2008 5:22pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

Bear in mind that you lose points in Euro NCAP tests for lack of stickers warning about assorted junk, which makes the whole 4star vs 5star thing a wee bit misleading no?

Seems to have done well anyhow:
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/audi_q7_2006/262.aspx

Well?? It didn't even do as well as the FIAT 500!

L1011 · 25-07-2008 5:35pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

pretty clear i think...?

Hitting after having virtually all force removed by the two airbags and at a point when the car was stationary = not going to cause death, brain damage, or more than a headache.

My knowledge of physics can tell that, something you appear to be lacking. The drivers head hits the airbag, that in itself will remove almost all the forces acting on it. It then hits the side cushion airbag. Its final resting position isn't in any way unnatural for that kind of collision and indeed we can't actually tell if it made any contact with the door at all.

cantdecide · 25-07-2008 5:59pm

The FIAT ends up going back the way it came while the Audi, ploughs on. Much greater forces etc so I'd say definitely a hugely higher chance of fatal injury in the 500.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:02pm

MYOB wrote: »

Hitting after having virtually all force removed by the two airbags and at a point when the car was stationary = not going to cause death, brain damage, or more than a headache.

My knowledge of physics can tell that, something you appear to be lacking. The drivers head hits the airbag, that in itself will remove almost all the forces acting on it. It then hits the side cushion airbag. Its final resting position isn't in any way unnatural for that kind of collision and indeed we can't actually tell if it made any contact with the door at all.

"we" can clearly can clearly see contact was made (look at my second pic, the head deforms which shows the force of impact) i can't believe you're still denying impact! never mind trying to dazzle us with your "knowledge of physics"?!

Your knowledge of physics is as impressive as your grasp of reality!

copacetic · 25-07-2008 6:06pm

MYOB wrote: »

Hitting after having virtually all force removed by the two airbags and at a point when the car was stationary = not going to cause death, brain damage, or more than a headache.

My knowledge of physics can tell that, something you appear to be lacking. The drivers head hits the airbag, that in itself will remove almost all the forces acting on it. It then hits the side cushion airbag. Its final resting position isn't in any way unnatural for that kind of collision and indeed we can't actually tell if it made any contact with the door at all.

give it up dude, you were 'caught rapid' as it were. just making a fool of yourself now..

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:09pm

copacetic wrote: »

give it up dude, you were 'caught rapid' as it were. just making a fool of yourself now..

Um, no I'm not.

We've got someone trying to defy Newton here for a starter, if you want to go after someone 'making a fool' of themselves. There will have been feck-all force if any left at the time of the "impact" that we can't actually tell for sure if it happened or not - considering the window didn't break, for one thing.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:16pm

MYOB wrote: »

Um, no I'm not.

We've got someone trying to defy Newton here for a starter, if you want to go after someone 'making a fool' of themselves. There will have been feck-all force if any left at the time of the "impact" that we can't actually tell for sure if it happened or not - considering the window didn't break, for one thing.

window? what window?!! you mean the windows that were removed or at least down?!!! :rolleyes:

DUDE!!! have you even watched the video?!!!

peasant · 25-07-2008 6:16pm

The diagram in the linked pictures shows severe injuries in red ...unfortunately it's not looking good for the people in the Fiat.

The main reason for this is that the Q7 has a longitudeonal chassis member that basically drills right into the Fiat whilst offering no horizontal crashbar for the Fiat to dissipate energy against.

So not only does the Q7 have a much higher mass, it also slices right through the Fiat which means that the Fiat comes to a very sudden stop whereas the Q7 carries its momentum for longer, resulting in a "soft landing" for its passengers.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/automobil/403/303398/zoom_0_0

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:19pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

window? what window?!! you mean the windows that were removed or at least down?!!! :rolleyes:

DUDE!!! have you even watched the video?!!!

Yes, you can't tell that from a grainy video though.

Point is - the airbags did their job. The majority of the force which they could dissapate *was* dissapated by them.

BrianD3 · 25-07-2008 6:19pm

To end the speculation about the Fiat driver's injuries, here are the results for both cars.
Fiat

Audi

As can be seen the Fiat offers adequate protection for the driver's head but poor protection for his neck. Also poor protection for most of the driver's legs but adequate protection for his feet. The children in the back seat are also poorly protected but the front seat passenger fares well.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:25pm

MYOB wrote: »

Yes, you can't tell that from a grainy video though.

Point is - the airbags did their job. The majority of the force which they could dissapate *was* dissapated by them.

now you're arguing that there WERE side windows?!! jesus, give up! :eek:

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:27pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

now you're arguing that there WERE side windows?!! jesus, give up! :eek:

I'm not, I'm saying that you can't see if there were or not.

I've nothing to "give up". The airbags didn't malfunction, didn't do anything they weren't meant to do, and wouldn't have changed what happened had they done anything else.

Now, are you going to 'give up' insisting that the dummy hit the door when its absolutely impossible to tell if it did or not?

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:27pm

The German ADAC conducted a crash test that involved a large SUV, the Audi Q7 and a mini, the Fiat 500. The results of the test say that, even if the small car has a very good safety rating, there are very little chances of survival for the passengers of the small car.

Even if the EuroNCAP results for the Fiat 500 were confirmed, ADAC measured very high stresses on the passenger during the crash. The head and knee airbags were overwhelmed. The airbag for the driver can cause an impact with the A-pillar and it doesn't offer protection for the chest impact. This is due to the fact the it fires too late to prevent injury. In the case of this crash, if there were two children in the back of the Fiat 500, they wouldn't have survived

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Audi-Q7-vs-Fiat-500-Crash-Test.html

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:29pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

The German ADAC conducted a crash test that involved a large SUV, the Audi Q7 and a mini, the Fiat 500. The results of the test say that, even if the small car has a very good safety rating, there are very little chances of survival for the passengers of the small car.

Even if the EuroNCAP results for the Fiat 500 were confirmed, ADAC measured very high stresses on the passenger during the crash. The head and knee airbags were overwhelmed. The airbag for the driver can cause an impact with the A-pillar and it doesn't offer protection for the chest impact. [n]This is due to the fact the it fires too late to prevent injury.[/b] In the case of this crash, if there were two children in the back of the Fiat 500, they wouldn't have survived

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Audi-Q7-vs-Fiat-500-Crash-Test.html

If you look at the position of the dummies head, its beyond where the airbag extends to - firing time has nothing to do with it. If the firing time was wrong, it would have had the majority of its NCAP stars withheld, just like the Nissan Navara did until it was updated.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:30pm

MYOB wrote: »

I'm not, I'm saying that you can't see if there were or not.

I've nothing to "give up". The airbags didn't malfunction, didn't do anything they weren't meant to do, and wouldn't have changed what happened had they done anything else.

Now, are you going to 'give up' insisting that the dummy hit the door when its absolutely impossible to tell if it did or not?

the only impossible thing is... for you to admit you're wrong!!

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:31pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

the only impossible thing is... for you to admit you're wrong!!

Except I'm not. If I was, the car would never have had 5 NCAP stars, simple as. The airbags have to work to design and requirements, which they did.

peasant · 25-07-2008 6:33pm

MYOB ..shush now ...look at the diagrams

Clare Guy ...yes, you're right ...now stop arguing

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:34pm

peasant wrote: »

MYOB ..shush now ...look at the diagrams

I'm not denying the driver was seriously injured - which is what the diagrams show, I'm denying slig's claim the driver missed the airbags (when its obvious it didn't from all the video footage) - and Clare Guy's attempts to modify the laws of physics and assert things happened. Neither of which he can be "right" on.

Anan1 · 25-07-2008 6:35pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

The German ADAC conducted a crash test that involved a large SUV, the Audi Q7 and a mini, the Fiat 500. The results of the test say that, even if the small car has a very good safety rating, there are very little chances of survival for the passengers of the small car.

Very true, weight counts. That said, it's clear that, in terms of crashworthiness, the FIAT was far better designed (within the constraints of its size & weight) than the Audi.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:36pm

MYOB wrote: »

Except I'm not. If I was, the car would never have had 5 NCAP stars, simple as. The airbags have to work to design and requirements, which they did.

Riiiiiiight, the NCAP rating is based on the NCAP test which involve hitting a stationary deformable object, not a moving Audi Q7... you're either a troll or you've crashed a Fiat 500 into an Audi Q7 and banged your head.

peasant · 25-07-2008 6:36pm

NCAP and a real world crash are two different things.

You can design a car to do well in NCAP as the parameters are known ...you can't design equally well for every other possible eventuality as your dealing with lots of unknowns.

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:39pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

Riiiiiiight, the NCAP rating is based on the NCAP test which involve hitting a stationary deformable object, not a moving Audi Q7... you're either a troll or you've crashed a Fiat 500 into an Audi Q7 and banged your head.

Neither.

The NCAP rating is based on specified circumstances, but still - if the airbag timings were incorrect to protect a driver to the best of the airbags abilities in a front quarter impact (which is done in the NCAP, albeit in to a stationary object), it would not have got 5 stars - it would likely have got a slashed star and thats it.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:42pm

MYOB wrote: »

Neither.

The NCAP rating is based on specified circumstances, but still - if the airbag timings were incorrect to protect a driver to the best of the airbags abilities in a front quarter impact (which is done in the NCAP, albeit in to a stationary object), it would not have got 5 stars - it would likely have got a slashed star and thats it.

obviously the timings are correct for NCAP tests!...

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:45pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

obviously the timings are correct for NCAP tests!...

They're correct for any instance in which they're going to be able to protect you - hence something saying they're incorrect is... incorrect. Pedantic as hell, but thats the way it is.

Basically, all this test showed is that big car > small car for safety, which is something fairly blatantly obvious. The 500 is one of the safest cars in its size and nothing which was demonstrated in that test realistically could have been protected against better with current technology.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:48pm

see if you can see a difference here. try opening your eyes this time...

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:50pm

Theres a difference because its a different crash scenario.

What relevance does that have to my point? There was no way a car of that size was going to offer any more protection to the driver.

Vertakill · 25-07-2008 6:56pm

Wtf is the arguement here?

The Fiat is well designed, we know that. However, hitting a stationary object (NCAP) is an awful lot different than hitting an object bombing towards you (Q7).

We know that the Fiat is very good at the NCAP, even better than the Q7. But, the Fiat clearly fails to protect to the same degree as the NCAP test when an increased amount of energy is exerted onto it (Q7). So this is why a car can have a 5 star rating on the NCAP, yet fail miserably on some of the most basic things (like the driver airbag)* when hitting something at greater force.

So no matter how great your car is at running into a concrete wall, if you run into a bigger/heavier vehicle on the road that goes out the window.

* That driver side airbag seriously didn't work properly. It actually burst/ripped and you can see that at 1:04 of that video. Then the driver's head veered off to the door, which in a real life situation, would cause some serious neck/back problems.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 6:56pm

MYOB wrote: »

Theres a difference because its a different crash scenario.

What relevance does that have to my point? There was no way a car of that size was going to offer any more protection to the driver.

jesus, if you can't see the relevance then i can't help you. you've changed your argument 3 or 4 times.

i give up, you're right buddy, the head didn't hit the door or pillar, there are side windows, the airbags worked perfectly, the 5 stars ncap rating proves this test is irrelevant...

L1011 · 25-07-2008 6:59pm

You didn't prove that the head hit the door or pillar - you posted an article saying it "could" hit the pillar, not that it "did".

I said you can't tell if there are side windows, probably aren't although I believe NCAP tests do have them - this wasn't NCAP.

The airbags did work perfectly to design, don't see how you can contradict this. The airbags would have counteracted all the forces they could

And common knowledge and experience would show that this test just proved common knowledge and experience.

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 7:03pm

MYOB wrote: »

You didn't prove that the head hit the door or pillar - you posted an article saying it "could" hit the pillar, not that it "did".

I said you can't tell if there are side windows, probably aren't although I believe NCAP tests do have them - this wasn't NCAP.

The airbags did work perfectly to design, don't see how you can contradict this. The airbags would have counteracted all the forces they could

And common knowledge and experience would show that this test just proved common knowledge and experience.

i tried saying you're right to shut you up and even that didn't work!!!

L1011 · 25-07-2008 7:04pm

Clare_Guy wrote: »

i tried saying you're right to shut you up and even that didn't work!!!

Because its not that hard to determine sarcasm on the internet?

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 7:05pm

MYOB wrote: »

Because its not that hard to determine sarcasm on the internet?

your "knowledge of physics" is second only to your "psychic ability"!!

Clare_Guy · 25-07-2008 7:07pm

could a mod lock this with myob in it?? please!?!

peasant · 25-07-2008 7:07pm

Stop it , you two ...now!

This is getting very tedious and spoils the thread for everybody else

Video: Fiat 500 vs Audi Q7 in a crash test

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