Would this be fair?

LillyVanilli

We're thinking of getting two labrador retriever pups. We're going to build a dog run approximately 8 ft by 20 ft in size, so they should have plenty of room to run around. Thing is we both work from 9-5 so there would be nobody there all day. I live 5 mins from work so usually go home twice for lunch during the week, but not every day. We would be home every evening shortly after 5 and spend a couple of hours with them.
Was thinking of getting two dogs so they could keep themselves company during the day. Is that unfair on the dogs leaving them at home for so long?

whitser

perfectly fine,imo, but theres some on here will disagree.

MsFifers

Given how frequently this topic comes up - would a mod consider making a sticky with all the pros and cons, do's and don't's of a person working full-time getting a dog?

OP - if you look back a few pages there have been a good few discussions about this recently. eg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055335652
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055337007

lightening

lynners wrote: »

We would be home every evening shortly after 5 and spend a couple of hours with them.

Do you go back out again every night?

carwash_2006

I would worry about getting 2 young boisterous pups together and then leaving them on their own for large parts of the day. I got 2 pups when I got my dogs, if I had a chance to do it again I would get one, get them properly trained and then get another if it was necessary.

When you get 2 pups so close in age they bond very strongly with each other and it can make training somewhat more difficult. This isn't a huge problem if you have plenty of time to spend with them and take them off seperately for training. But, when they are left for such a long period on their own you could find you have problems with persuading them to pay attention to you.

Perhaps you could get an older dog, then once the older dog has settled in a bit you could look at getting a pup if you really want one. Otherwise 2 older dogs would probably be easier to cope with in this situation. Sometimes you'll get them in rescue that they are already paired up and the rescue want to home them together.

LillyVanilli

MsFifers wrote: »

Given how frequently this topic comes up - would a mod consider making a sticky with all the pros and cons, do's and don't's of a person working full-time getting a dog?

OP - if you look back a few pages there have been a good few discussions about this recently. eg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055335652
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055337007

Thanks just thought I would start my own thread anyway, cause everybodies situation is different. I did have a read through them though, thanks

lightening wrote: »

Do you go back out again every night?

No Im in for the night most nights when Im home from work.

carwash_2006 wrote: »

I would worry about getting 2 young boisterous pups together and then leaving them on their own for large parts of the day. I got 2 pups when I got my dogs, if I had a chance to do it again I would get one, get them properly trained and then get another if it was necessary.

Thanks Carwash, thats a good suggestion. I would prefer to get them from puppies, so maybe get one and get another in a year or so once the first ones trained. Would it make much of a difference if I was to get a bitch or a dog training wise?

Sigma Force

Those hours are fine, although as Carwash said one would be better two can end up being a nightmare getting another one later on would be a better option. If the pup is given a routine from the very first day it should be fine. Although there could be a lot of crying for the first week or two, plenty of safe toys and excercise in the morning before you go may help.
They are a highly energetic breed and need a lot of attention and need to be kept busy.

Plenty of people work longer hours than that and have pooches as long as they have a routine etc there should be no probs. If the pup must be kept outside it will need a lot of socialising perhaps see if there is a puppy class in your area on the weekends or in the evenings.

peasant

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

Those hours are fine, although as Carwash said one would be better two can end up being a nightmare getting another one later on would be a better option. If the pup is given a routine from the very first day it should be fine. Although there could be a lot of crying for the first week or two, plenty of safe toys and excercise in the morning before you go may help.
They are a highly energetic breed and need a lot of attention and need to be kept busy.

Plenty of people work longer hours than that and have pooches as long as they have a routine etc there should be no probs. If the pup must be kept outside it will need a lot of socialising perhaps see if there is a puppy class in your area on the weekends or in the evenings.

You might want to stick with the Guinea pigs, tbh.

Worst bit of "advice" I have read here in a long time.

Those hours are fine

No, they aren't ... eight unsupervised hours is too long

If the pup is given a routine from the very first day it should be fine

No, it won't. Raising a pup is very time intensive. It needs constant supervision and constant training to become the kind of dog you want to live with later on. Locking it away for eight hours will achieve the opposite

Although there could be a lot of crying for the first week or two

Now ..why would the pup be crying? According to you it shouldn't have any issues. You're promoting animal cruelty here

They are a highly energetic breed and need a lot of attention and need to be kept busy.

So locking them up for eight hours is the thing to do?

Plenty of people work longer hours than that and have pooches as long as they have a routine etc there should be no probs

Plenty of people are selfish and do all sorts of things ...doesn't make it right though

If the pup must be kept outside it will need a lot of socialising

What's that supposed to mean? Keep it inside instead, so it won't need socialising?

LillyVanilli

Hi Peasant, would you recommend a different type of dog, an older dog or no dog at all then because it will be alone for 8 hours most days?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Here we go again! I totally disagree with Peasant. Your hours are fine. I get so mad to read how many people here discourage people getting dogs because they have to go to work. Many many people are like you and their dogs are happy loved pets. Go for it. You sound like a responsible person and I'm sure you will have a couple of very happy dogs.
I have had occassion to be at home during the week and found the dogs just lay about and slept for 80% of the time anyway!

peasant

lynners wrote: »

Hi Peasant, would you recommend a different type of dog, an older dog or no dog at all then because it will be alone for 8 hours most days?

Personally I would recommend no dog at all and by no means a pup.


Dogs are highly social animals. They absolutely need to be part of a pack/group. It is essential for their wellbeing. It is also essential for their learning and behaviour that they have as much interaction as possible ...constantly, if possible and not just in half hourly squirts on weekdays and on overload on weekends when the owner tries to compensate for the hours lost during the week.

Leavin a dog alone every day for eight or more hours simply is not fair. I personally would even go so far as to call it cruelty (although others mightn't agree).

But not only is it not fair on the dog, it also isn't fair on you, the owner.
A dog left to its own devices for so long is highly likely to come up with its own entertainment for that period and its own rules on what is and isn't good behaviour.
The result of that will be that you have to deal with a "problem dog" of some degree. Worst case scenario, the dog becomes unmanageable and you have to give it up ...best case, you manage to get some sort of truce going. But it is highly unlikely that that dog is ever to become what you wanted it to be ...the loyal, faithful, well behaved and well trained companion that you were dreaming about when you got it.

In order to get that dog, you have to put the time in ...if you haven't got the time, all you'll get is a bad compromise for both sides involved.

Lord Muck

IMHO -8 hours is too long , i'd love a dog myself but i'm in the same boat working hours wise so decided against it. That big dog run would get a lot smaller if you were locked init for 40 hours aweek.
Sorry:(

Whispered

Would a dog alone for 10 hours a day 2 days a week be too much?

DancingDaisy

Hi, I haven't posted in here before but from my personal experience even if the household works full time it is possible to raise a well adjusted pup. My family have always taken in ill treated dogs, adult and pups and we have never had an issue with training them etc.

At the moment we have three dogs, a 7 year old female lab (Shadow), a 3 year old female cav (Ruby) and a 10 month old male cav (Sparky).

We got the lab after our previous dog was killed on the road while we were all on a family holiday. She was 18 months old when the vet asked us to take her and she had never been handled or trained, she had been bought for a little child who was suffering from cancer and when he passed away the family did not want to keep the dog.

Both my parents were working full time and myself and my brother were in school when she joined the family and yet within two months we had her lead trained and house broken, though she had never been inside before. This was done even though there was nobody in the house from half 8 in the morning until half four in the evening, though my dad would occassionaly drop in on his lunch.

She is still one of the best behaved and well trained dog, she took to the other two little ones that were gotten this year like a mother, though she had been the sole pet in the house for almost five years. She is placid and well behaved and other than her settling in issues she liked to eat the furniture, however she was trained out of this, we have never had an issue with her.

So I really think you CANNOT paint a picture that a family, which are not in the house during the day monday to friday, are unable to give a dog a proper home.

It depends on the people in the family and how much of themselves they are willing to give the dog.

However, I do have to say that we would not have the other two dogs if there was nobody in the house during the day, however my mum has been diagnosed with severe arthritis and therefore is not working. They do get left in the house on their own a couple of days a month though, and there are never any issues.

goodlad

Ive never post in this forum before but i feel the need to give my point of view here. I dont mind who agree's or disagrees.

Personally i look at dogs like a part of the family, i grew up with a family dog.
Even thinking back i cant believe how the dog was actually another member of the family. When i was sick the dog sat beside my bed for hours on end, i swear the dog knew i wasnt well! She sulked when i gave out and i had to go sit down and pet her and say sorry, lol!

I could list lots more examples but i wont so nuts on it..

It seems crazy to some people but others will know what i mean.
I wouldnt leave a baby alone in a house therefore i wouldnt leave a puppy alone. It saddens me to see some people say yeah sure leave the dogs alone all day, its fine.... Well its not fine!!! A dog isnt just some mindless animal that you can leave alone when it doesnt suit you.

If you cant dedicate the time to spend with a dog then just dont get a dog!

Sorry for this turning into a bit of a rant but its annoys and saddens me to see people getting dogs and not having proper time for them.

whitser

as long as the dogs get a good run out every day keeping them in pens is grand. if you had an acre of garden a dog will still sit around all day waiting for his walk. but i would go for older dogs rather then pups, pups need a lot more time given to them for their development. get 2 grown up dogs and they'll be grand,imo.

animalcrazy

I have to agree with the last poster,good lad, my dog is part of the family and there is always someone here, they say someone should be home for most part of the day, and,well, that's not most part of the day.

DancingDaisy

Our dogs are very much part of the family, they eat with with us and generally go any where we go. They get more attention than any other member of the family and are probably spoilt rotten, and I think that if a vet keeps a household, in which the members work full time, in mind for rescue animals then there can't be much wrong with it.

The dogs get as much attention as they want and often have to make it clear that they don't want any more, (they go to bed and ignore us when we call them). Can you honestly say that our dogs are mistreated or that we have treated them cruely by providing them with so much love, Shadow may have been alone during the day before my mum finished working however she never misbehaved and had the run of the garden and the house, and is incredibly well behaved and trained. Now infairness in the summer months and during the school holidays there was always somebody with her, but she was never neglected and if my parents had thought for a second or if anyone had suggested that she may not have been happy and thriving in the situation they would have had her rehomed.

I just don't think it is right to put a blanket opinion on the issue, when different situations and different people can make all the difference (Sorry bout all the differeing ) and a healthy, well adjusted dog can be teh outcome.

animalcrazy

people have different opinions and every dog has it's own personality. I'm half and half on the whole leaving the dog at home thing.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

animalcrazy wrote: »

they say someone should be home for most part of the day.

Who's "They"? There are many many opinions on this and as others have said it depends on the people and the dogs invoved. It depends on how the dog is trained and taught that the owner will return. It depends on how the dog is treated when you are home. So who are "They"?

animalcrazy

''they'' are all the animal shelter sites I have looked at and have been told by shelters themselves.

DancingDaisy

I can understand a shelter saying that and I can also understand the idea of best practice, yet it has been vets and shelters whom we have received our animals from, and that have contacted us to take animals from them.

In our case, if both my parents had not been working we would not have been in a financial position to offer our dogs a home, with my mother not working now and the upkeep of three dogs, with two of them being quite a handful (the cavs) it is only through my financial help that we are able to look after them.

If people need to be in full employment to afford to give their dogs a loving and fulfilling life that they may otherwise not have then is it not better to take the animal than have it live out it's days in an animal shelter.

At the time of taking on Shadow it would have been impossible to rehome her and they were at the stage that having her pts or left in a shelter were the only solutions. She was 18 months old and had never been handled or cared for, and did not realise what it was to have a home.

Should we have left her to her faith because we were not at home during they day, though she had our undivided attention from before 6 in the morning until half 8 in the morning and from half 4 in the afternoon often until 11 in the evening, and during the weekend she had our constant attention. But because she missed out in the time between half 8 and one and two and half four, we should not have taken her?

p.s. I don't want to come across as some opinionated know-it-all and I believe that the dogs welfare is the most important aspect of taking on an animal however if someone can offer an animal a happy and loving home were the animal will be warm, fed, happy an dloved and preferrably walked at least once a day, then I don't feel they should be discouraged. There are too many dogs that are cruelly treated and without homes for good responsible potential owners to be discouraged. If they have the blessing of their vet or local shelter then I don't see why they shouldn't take in an animal and give it a home it might otherwise not have.

animalcrazy

That's why I'm half and half, in some cases it's ok and in others it's not. It depends on alot of things.

kerrysgold

Definitely not pups. They need constant attention, training & socializing.

How much time do you have to devote to exercising the dogs each day?
Would the dogs be brought indoors when you get home from work?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

kerrysgold wrote: »

Would the dogs be brought indoors when you get home from work?

What has that got to do with anything?
The only time our dogs get inside is when there's thunder or fireworks, as they freak them out. Other than that they are outdoor dogs, and don't like to be taken inside. Different if it's a small house dog but you can't generalise.

kerrysgold

IMO when you get a dog you are getting a new member of the family, it's not something to be left otuside and paid attention to when you feel like it, they are animals not toys and get lonely/bored.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

kerrysgold wrote: »

IMO when you get a dog you are getting a new member of the family, it's not something to be left otuside and paid attention to when you feel like it, they are animals not toys and get lonely/bored.

So you'd rather a German Shepard, St Bernard, Wolfhound, or any large or working dog is kept indoors instead of being given the freedom of a large garden where they can run and play?

DancingDaisy

I agree that a dog should be part of the family and all of ours are. They have beds of their own and a nice warm kitchen to sleep in. They get christmas presents and birhtday presents, if we get something nice for dinner or whatever, they get their treat also. It doesn't mean they need to be accompanied 24/7. I understand that dogs get lonely just like everyone else, but dogs also often prefer the company of their own species, so even if you were at home all day with them it is often the case that they would ignore you and play amongst themselves for the entire day, only coming in when they get hungry, thirsty or tired!

peasant

Seamus Attractive Waterfall wrote: »

So you'd rather a German Shepard, St Bernard, Wolfhound, or any large or working dog is kept indoors instead of being given the freedom of a large garden where they can run and play?

It is a bit of a myth that all a dog (of any size) needs to be happy is a large garden.

We have half an acre fenced in solely for our dogs. It's doggy paradise, with grass, bushes, little hidden hideaways, half dug tunnels, etc, you could loose a dog there for a day.

We also have three of them that share that place. According to your theory (and our plan) they should be out there, chasing each other, digging, running, hiding under bushes all day, keeping themselves busy.

Do they heck! Most of time they're clumped outside the back door waiting for us to come out or to be let back in. The occasions where they use that space as intended per week can be counted on one hand.

Very rarely do they come up with their own entertainment, mostly they're waiting for us to engage them or they just want to be inside, under our feet.

DancingDaisy

I'm not saying all dogs will act the same, I guess some of it is to do with the fact that we have a puppy and he seems to have given the older dog a new lease of life.

In the winter it's a different story and they are more likely to sleep all day unless it's walkies time. But again, I can only speak from my own experience, and that has been that our dogs love eachothers company, on the basis that they get their cuddles first thing in the morning and last thing at night, they are happy doing there own thing during the day and playing chasing with the next door neighbours cats.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

peasant wrote: »

It is a bit of a myth that all a dog (of any size) needs to be happy is a large garden.


Very rarely do they come up with their own entertainment, mostly they're waiting for us to engage them or they just want to be inside, under our feet.

You got me wrong. I do not subscribe to the belief that "all a dog needs is a big garden". I was trying (unsuccessfully it seems) to point out that not all dogs are being done a favour by taking them inside. My own are outside all the time but are not left to their own devices all the time. They get lots of attention and sometimes just want to lie somewhere on their own. They are happy well adjusted dogs whom it would be cruel to confine to a basket in the kitchen all evening.

imom922

I have two mastiffs they are knackered by the time i get home from work evrey day playin with each other. However i took nearly 6weeks off at the start to lay down the law who is boss and all that. Being without human contact all day is not ideal for a puppy as seen as you want to mould them to your way of thinking. Pack mentality sort of thing...

Lexie_Karas

I can completely empathise with you Lynners. My folks moved over to Spain a few years ago to retire and we all decided that the best thing was for my dog to go with them (she's batty about my dad and I think it wouldn've broken both they're hearts for her to stay in Ireland!). It has however left me completely dogless and I miss having a dog around so much.

I work all day aswell and I have a long commute to Dublin for work. I decided not to get a dog because aside from the hours I work, at the moment there'd easily be a day or two each week that I don't always go straight home from Dublin and it wouldn't always be something I could avoid.

I can understand both sides of the argument, I am very much torn between the two. I'm sure there are plenty here who'd disagree with me but I think that if you are committed to how much of your currently 'free time' you'll have to dedicate to your dogs to keep them happy and well trained then it could work out ok. The fact that you'll be getting two helps an awful lot.

It's obviously your choice, but seeing as how you're looking for advice.. I wouldn't recommend puppies! They really do benefit more from a lot of owner time.

What ever you decide to do I hope it all works out for you Its a good start that you're at least looking for advice about the whole thing. There are plenty of dog owners out there who are at home all day but thier dogs are still neglected or left to wander the streets. Best of luck!