Dole Crackdown. New claimants will only get paid at post offices.

Run_to_da_hills

I think it is a good idea but too late, It stops foreign nationals abusing our state benefits by travelling home and collecting payment through the EFT. With the end of cheap flights less and less will be travelling.

From a security point of view this a step backwards, I.E post offices will now be required to handle more cash thus making them more vulnerable for raids. They do not have the security of the banks, many of them are incorporated into grocery stores thus putting ordinary shoppers at risk in a hold up

It is also a nuisance having to Q for ages just to post a parcel particularly on Dole day, its bad enough having pensioners lining up for payments, I think that post offices should be for posting letters and parcels and not doing the work of the bank or dole office.. The other option is to issue dole cheques at the dole office that could be cashed in banks.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/politics/government-clamps-down-on-welfare-fraudsters-13913637.html

Sherifu

Poor bubbles.

Steve_o

Its only for people signing up now though isn't it?? It doesn't affect people who are already on the dole I think.... could have picked that up wrong though, was half listening to something about it on the radio this morning.

minxie

Steve_o wrote: »

Its only for people signing up now though isn't it?? It doesn't affect people who are already on the dole I think.... could have picked that up wrong though, was half listening to something about it on the radio this morning.

seems true, read it on aertel earlier too.....

drunkmonkey

I don't think these news measures go far enough, there's a lot of dole spongers out there, a lot claiming disabilty when there far from disabled, their more than capable of lifting a pint glass.....

I'd like to see tougher measures like there about to introduce in the UK....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7516551.stm

OP- Just about the post office - start a new thread...you've some very good points...it'll be intresting to see how the post office adapts especially with postbank rolling out rapidly....

Stark

Didn't take long for the bleeding hearts to start giving out:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlauojidoj/

drunkmonkey

Stark wrote: »

Didn't take long for the bleeding hearts to start giving out:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlauojidoj/

She should be sacked, I hope she's not being payed out of my tax... it's a kick in the stones when you loose a job but you've just to pull your socks back up and get on with it.....

brianthebard

Steve_o wrote: »

Its only for people signing up now though isn't it?? It doesn't affect people who are already on the dole I think.... could have picked that up wrong though, was half listening to something about it on the radio this morning.

well i got a letter saying i had to go into the dole office to sign on a specific day,previously i had a little slip sent out to me.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Am I right in thinking you have to sign on every week now? As opposed to every month?I don't understand why they have to be paid from the post office?
Surely it would be easier to just sign on in the post office each week and still be paid into your bank account.
That way they could sign on as normal in the dole office, freeing up the post offices and there would be no risk of people robbing the post office.

is_that_so

If you're already on it sign on once a month. New people will have to collect the cash at the PO. If you don't collect then the payment is stopped. Can see no problem with this, if it's an attempt to stop fraud although that Q in the PO is no fun.

Mossy Monk

Bride O'Brien should only speak when she has something important to say. Of all the stupid things to complain about.

Run_to_da_hills

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think these news measures go far enough, there's a lot of dole spongers out there, a lot claiming disabilty when there far from disabled, their more than capable of lifting a pint glass.....

I'd like to see tougher measures like there about to introduce in the UK....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7516551.stm
....

That UK proposal is nothing short of bringing in a social state You will have thousands of street cleaners, public office and state hospital workers, railway stations etc working below the minimum wage for the state It will be just like old communist Russia. The infrastructure is already set up for monitoring such a system, i.e. all the urban CCTV's

Steve_o

is_that_so wrote: »

although that Q in the PO is no fun.

Get a Job.... sorted!

Sleepy

And how many over-paid, unsackable when the recession ends public sector staff will be required to be hired from the minister's constituency in order to carry this out?

Add in the cost of the morkeshing and public relations campaigns and something tells me it'd be cheaper just to put up with the small proportion of fraudulent claimants. Figures I read in a UK paper a few weeks ago showed that the cost of whatever savings their department of welfare had made from their crackown were minnowed by the cost of the campaign and the staff required to run it.

Agamemnon

Bride O'Brien, senior policy officer with the INOU wrote:

...it could mean a big change for people on a personal level, who have already had enough upheaval from losing their jobs

Having to call to the post office once a week is a "big change for people on a personal level"? FFS. It's only a big change for people who sit on their holes in front of the tv all day and never leave the house.

Terry

Agamemnon wrote: »

Having to call to the post office once a week is a "big change for people on a personal level"? FFS. It's only a big change for people who sit on their holes in front of the tv all day and never leave the house.

It's not nice.
I remember signing on every week in the early 90's. The queues were huge and there were two cops with Uzis on their laps.
The place was robbed the week after I signed off.

It's embarrassing too.

Nobody (well most people) wants to be on the dole, but sometimes you just can't get work and the current economic climate isn't helping.

Laurs_civic

i heard about this day , its is some cheek now it is.. i think it should be done thru post office.

drunkmonkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That UK proposal is nothing short of bringing in a social state You will have thousands of street cleaners, public office and state hospital workers, railway stations etc working below the minimum wage for the state It will be just like old communist Russia. The infrastructure is already set up for monitoring such a system, i.e. all the urban CCTV's

Well if there not capable of working in an everday job maybe we should pay them 1/4 of the minimum wage and get them doing something....

I'm a bit thick about this subject, 2 of my neighbours have never worked a day in there lives, both are on disability....neither one of them is physically disabled....I think it's a mental thing (there ****).....but there smart enough to ring the revenue when they see a yellow reg outside your house....then they come over to rub your face in it...i'd love to see them get forced out to work....unless you've no arms, legs or a severe disability there's no excuse for not making a contribution to society...

ejmaztec

They should bring back the good old days when you had to queue up in the pissing down rain outside the dole office, watching the farm-boys in their sh1t-covered wellies, roll up in their tractors to get their free loot.

minxie

ejmaztec wrote: »

They should bring back the good old days when you had to queue up in the pissing down rain outside the dole office, watching the farm-boys in their sh1t-covered wellies, roll up in their tractors to get their free loot.

might come quicker than you think, ha, ha:eek:

Run_to_da_hills

ejmaztec wrote: »

They should bring back the good old days when you had to queue up in the pissing down rain outside the dole office, watching the farm-boys in their sh1t-covered wellies, roll up in their tractors to get their free loot.

You forgot to mention about the free butter, something considered of a luxury these days.

ejmaztec

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You forgot to mention about the free butter, something considered of a luxury these days.

Oh those halcyon days. And the Intervention Beef, stuff that would kill a dog if you fed it to them.

meditraitor

ejmaztec wrote: »

Oh those halcyon days. And the Intervention Beef, stuff that would kill a dog if you fed it to them.

And that corn beef in a tin they gave away by the bag at christmas.... nasty stuff

ejmaztec

meditraitor wrote: »

And that corn beef in a tin they gave away by the bag at christmas.... nasty stuff

I think that's why the unemployment figures dropped. Some people think that all of a sudden lots of vacancies got filled, but in reality half of them died, greased up on butter and condemned meat. :eek:

Terry

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well if there not capable of working in an everday job maybe we should pay them 1/4 of the minimum wage and get them doing something....

I'm a bit thick about this subject, 2 of my neighbours have never worked a day in there lives, both are on disability....neither one of them is physically disabled....I think it's a mental thing (there ****).....but there smart enough to ring the revenue when they see a yellow reg outside your house....then they come over to rub your face in it...i'd love to see them get forced out to work....unless you've no arms, legs or a severe disability there's no excuse for not making a contribution to society...

Let me get this right.
Your neighbours grassed you up because you failed to pay stamp duty on your car, so now everyone on the dole is a wanker?
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

ejmaztec wrote: »

Oh those halcyon days. And the Intervention Beef, stuff that would kill a dog if you fed it to them.

Meat should never ever come from a tin.

ejmaztec

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm a bit thick about this subject, 2 of my neighbours have never worked a day in there lives, both are on disability....neither one of them is physically disabled....I think it's a mental thing (there ****).....but there smart enough to ring the revenue when they see a yellow reg outside your house....then they come over to rub your face in it...i'd love to see them get forced out to work....unless you've no arms, legs or a severe disability there's no excuse for not making a contribution to society...

Perhaps they were contributing to society by getting you to pay up on your import. :eek:

drunkmonkey

Terry wrote: »

Let me get this right.
Your neighbours grassed you up because you failed to pay stamp duty on your car, so now everyone on the dole is a wanker?
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

No there not **** I was to referring to one in particular... but seen this guy get away with it for so long makes my blood boil....he's got 2 cars, lives rent free with his mommy, eats in the chippers every day and has a gold card for xtravision....he should be sent out to work but he can't cause he's "Disabled".....:mad:

Any way I can get this guy back in the workforce, thinking of putting my own little dvd together for the welfare officer.....we left school at the same age....15 years later he's still not working...

The system is broken!!!!

I'm on the dole and I don't know how you could have two cars. It's barely enough to live on.

Fratton Fred

Terry wrote: »

Let me get this right.
Your neighbours grassed you up because you failed to pay stamp duty on your car, so now everyone on the dole is a wanker?
Correct me if I'm wrong here.

seems reasonable. I got crapped on by a seagull once, therefore i think anything with feathers should be shot.

Terry wrote: »

Meat should never ever come from a tin.

my dog thinks you are mad, barking mad in fact

drunkmonkey

ejmaztec wrote: »

Perhaps they were contributing to society by getting you to pay up on your import. :eek:

Thats probably the way they were looking at it...sad but true:eek:

Wertz

Agamemnon wrote: »

Having to call to the post office once a week is a "big change for people on a personal level"? FFS. It's only a big change for people who sit on their holes in front of the tv all day and never leave the house.

Newsflash: the long term scroungers and workshy are already on the older system...the only thing this effects are people opening a new claim, who for the most part are those who worked through the boom times, paid their social insurance stamps and are only now looking for what they're entitled to and for what they've paid their stamps for...why make it more awkward for these people to collect their payment, whilst those who have milked the system for years keep doing so the old fashioned way?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm on the dole and I don't know how you could have two cars. It's barely enough to live on.

It's not enough to live on......but when your grassing up your neighbours to the revenue the pennys seem to fall from heaven.....it's the only way I can make sense of it....

meditraitor

Wertz wrote: »

Newsflash: the long term scroungers and workshy are already on the older system...the only thing this effects are people opening a new claim, who for the most part are those who worked through the boom times, paid their social insurance stamps and are only now looking for what they're entitled to and for what they've paid their stamps for...why make it more awkward for these people to collect their payment, whilst those who have milked the system for years keep doing so the old fashioned way?

+1

Fratton Fred

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't think these news measures go far enough, there's a lot of dole spongers out there, a lot claiming disabilty when there far from disabled, their more than capable of lifting a pint glass.....

I'd like to see tougher measures like there about to introduce in the UK....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7516551.stm

OP- Just about the post office - start a new thread...you've some very good points...it'll be intresting to see how the post office adapts especially with postbank rolling out rapidly....

maybe they could be made to build pointless roads on the tops of hills?:rolleyes:

drunkmonkey

Fratton Fred wrote: »

maybe they could be made to build pointless roads on the tops of hills?:rolleyes:

+1

How much could we have saved on the Red Cow?:rolleyes:

Wertz

Another point; anyone who's worked up 'til this point and has now lost their job is most likely already used to being paid through bank/EFT and probably do most of their bill paying, mortgage/rent etc through their bank account...so with this system, you'll have people having to physically go into a fixed collection point, be paid cash and then having to lodge some or all of that cash into an account at another fixed point, on top of all the extra traffic this will produce in town centres and the extra security needed for cash in transit, this is simply a waste of a lot of people's (admittedly free) time, time that could be better spent doing something a tad more productive...

Don't get me wrong...the move to tigthen up the system WRT to fraud is laudable but once again, no-one seems to have thought this through and TBH they're "fixing" the wrong end of the system.
As someone with the spectre of unemployment looming on the horizon, I don't relish the thoughts of going back to the dole office, somewhere I swore I'd never have to go back to...under this new system, I look forward to it even less...

Terry

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No there not **** I was to referring to one in particular... but seen this guy get away with it for so long makes my blood boil....he's got 2 cars, lives rent free with his mommy, eats in the chippers every day and has a gold card for xtravision....he should be sent out to work but he can't cause he's "Disabled".....:mad:

Any way I can get this guy back in the workforce, thinking of putting my own little dvd together for the welfare officer.....we left school at the same age....15 years later he's still not working...

The system is broken!!!!

WTF is a "gold card for xtra vision"?

I don't rent videos (or DVDs as you kids call them).

mickoneill30

The system is being milked by some people who are

1: living abroad
2: holidaying abroad
3: working

Does anybody have any viable easy alternatives than using the post offices to combat this (that don't cost a fortune)? Or is this all just the usual negative responses with no actual constructive alternatives?

BaconZombie

Can;t they just electronically match up anybody who leave the country with the dole records?

I was on "Job Seekers Benefits" for just over 2 months and had a holiday in that was pre-booked and paid before I lost my job, and I had to tell and sign a sheet at the social welfare office saying I was going to be out of the country {plus I did not get paid for this period of time.}

I know the history of "computerised" system in Ireland is fecked by it must be cheaper then the extra man-hours and security to get the money to the post-offices.

fits

I can see why they might want people to sign on once a week... but having to collect the money at post offices is a ridiculous move imo.

I'm just off the dole after a short stint myself. Hated being on it. They're still dragging their heels on back pay I'm entitled to.

Run_to_da_hills

I suggest bringing back the fortnight signing on again, I.e. Q's, with hatch payments. The Dole office has got very cushy these days with most of the officers sitting on their ho*as all day, it would give them something more to do . Also people will have a chance to socialise once again like back in the 80ies. There is not much socialising in going to ATM.

drunkmonkey

Terry wrote: »

WTF is a "gold card for xtra vision"?

you know what I mean, he's always in the video shop renting movies....

maybe we should make them sign on in the video/dvd shops:D

thelordofcheese

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No there not **** I was to referring to one in particular... but seen this guy get away with it for so long makes my blood boil....he's got 2 cars, lives rent free with his mommy, eats in the chippers every day and has a gold card for xtravision....he should be sent out to work but he can't cause he's "Disabled".....:mad:

Any way I can get this guy back in the workforce, thinking of putting my own little dvd together for the welfare officer.....we left school at the same age....15 years later he's still not working...

The system is broken!!!!

The only thing that's broken here is your period key.

brianthebard

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I suggest bringing back the fortnight signing on again, I.e. Q's, with hatch payments. The Dole office has got very cushy these days with most of the officers sitting on their ho*as all day, it would give them something more to do . Also people will have a chance to socialise once again like back in the 80ies. There is not much socialising in going to ATM.

yeah cause people are on the dole so they can make friends.

Wertz

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The system is being milked by some people who are

1: living abroad
2: holidaying abroad
3: working

Does anybody have any viable easy alternatives than using the post offices to combat this (that don't cost a fortune)? Or is this all just the usual negative responses with no actual constructive alternatives?

Weekly sign ons at a proper dole office as suggested back up the thread?
Clogging up POs and paying cash are taking steps backwards and actually end up costing more to oversee...

BrandonBlock

Wertz wrote: »

Weekly sign ons at a proper dole office as suggested back up the thread?
Clogging up POs and paying cash are taking steps backwards and actually end up costing more to oversee...

I strongly doubt the cost of hiring some extra PO employees won't offset the cost of fraudulent social welfare claims by people out of state. Apparently 10% of claims are made by such people. I heard Mary Hanafin say this could save the government over €560 million if implemented.

Wertz

I listened to that interview too and I wasn't left assured by her assurances tbqh...and IIRC a figure (NOT €560M) was plucked out of the air from some earlier study; Cooper called her out on it and she changed the subject (she couldn't answer worth a damn on the important question of entitlement rights of "contracted self employed" either)...
The €560M number mentioned is the cuts that HAVE to be made within the DSFA this year in line with cutbacks in other departments, not the potential savings that these changes would make...

I never said anything about just taking on extra PO staff...there's a lot more to this than just that, a considerable part of it is the transfer of a lot more hard cash to all these POs, along with the security required and garda escorts in some areas.

...and again, I'm not saying that these moves shouldn't be made, I'm saying that taking EFTs out of the system is backward...again I APPLAUD that an effort is being made to curtail fraud within the system (better late than never eh) and weekly sign ons are a necessary move...but transferring cash so that people can simply turn it back into electronic funds is wasteful on many levels...

BrandonBlock

Wertz wrote: »

I never said anything about just taking on extra PO staff...there's a lot more to this than just that, a considerable part of it is the transfer of a lot more hard cash to all these POs, along with the security required and garda escorts in some areas.

Well at least it's money being placed in the correct hands. Hire more gardai, hire more security, open more post offices.

INN wrote:

An investigation by the Department of Social and Family Affairs found that almost 10% of people on the live register were claiming benefits while living outside the country.

I did some rough figures, there's 220,000~ people on the live register as of June 2008. If 10% of these are claiming fraudulently (22,000 people) and they are receiving the full amount (€197.50) then that is almost €226 million saved in the first year alone. Thinking long term - 10 years for example then that's a saving of over €2.2 billion.

Wertz

BrandonBlock wrote: »

Well at least it's money being placed in the correct hands. Hire more gardai, hire more security, open more post offices.

With what...buttons?
Have you been living in the country? They're trying to close POs not open them...the Gardaí are already overstretched, under funded and what we have of them should be out tackling other crime...
As for paying more to private security firms? Refer to my opening sentence.

BrandonBlock wrote: »

I did some rough figures, there's 220,000~ people on the live register as of June 2008. If 10% of these are claiming fraudulently (22,000 people) and they are receiving the full amount (€197.50) then that is almost €226 million saved in the first year alone. Thinking long term - 10 years for example then that's a saving of over €2.2 billion.

Your figures are probably sound and again I'm not saying that some of the changes aren't necessary...you forget though that for a lot of the time, the fraud where it is happening isn't just through new claims (particularly given the surge in claims the last 6 months due to down turn in construction) and of the 220K you mentioned on the live register, probably about 80% of that figure are long term claims; how much fraud is on-going within that total? These new moves aren't going to address that (although I get the feeling this isn't the last of new strategies we'll be hearing from DSFA).
If this is a move specfically to address the issue of NINs opening claims and flying in and out of the country, then there has to be other ways of addressing that, but it no doubt should be addressed...lack of claim to Irish citizenship would be a good flag, although that might not go down too well with some immigrant groups...

david_the_great

well i for one think this is a great ideaz- it will show the real people for the scammers!

kowloon

Is it a good idea to have so many people in one place at one time collecting cash?