Do police on horses actually do anything?

Random

As an outsider looking in I can't see what purpose the Garda / police on horses actually serve. They can't arrest someone on a horse, the horses can sometimes misbehave, they don't seem very approachable.

What purpose do they sure that couldn't be served by a Garda on foot patrol or even with a dog?

On top of that then, you have the areas outside football stadiums, concerts or wherever they're in force covered in horse crap - which I personally dislike having to watch out for!

Can someone enlighten me please? Don't take this as a bashing thread .. I'm not in the ES so perhaps I have missed something.

Dave!

From what I gather it's so they have a high vantage point, and so can see trouble far away, etc.

I think we should get rid of them and introduce a new Gardaí on Stilts scheme

Jemmy

They work in pairs so arrests can be made and they use the horses to over power eejits on the street.

There was a program on sky about it all one night.
I was going to join but went to college instead!

deadwood

Jemmy wrote: »

There was a program on sky about it all one night.
I was going to join but went to college instead!

You must be a horse of a man, Jemmy.

The Mounted Unit are exellent and should be expanded to every Division. Look at the positive response they get from the public.

Jemmy

deadwood wrote: »

You must be a horse of a man, Jemmy.

The Mounted Unit are exellent and should be expanded to every Division. Look at the positive response they get from the public.

Im a lady!

And yea they are excellent.:P

deadwood

Sorry, Random. Must stay focussed.
Yes, the mounted unit are exellent for community relations - everyone loves an ould horsey (sometimes a little too much, but there are specialist sites for that).

They come in handy for public order.

They provide lots of opportunities for us to make comments like "Look at the size of the [EMAIL="p@*!k"]p@*!k[/EMAIL] on that horse" etc.

And the poo is good for the roses.

Jemmy

http://www.garda.ie/mountedunit.html

Fyr.Fytr

If you watch mounted unit on animal planet, its follows gmp mpounted officers.

I thought they just served as eyes in the sky and crowd control, but they work in pairs so one can jump off and arrest someone while the other minds the horses.

They seem to work very well, with having a high vantage point and also the speed they get to calls, get there faster then on foot or in a patrol car in city centre areas.

Put it this was if they didnt work do you think ags management would fork out the money for them? Yea doubt it

Shield

This isn't AH people. I have just deleted over 20 nonsensical posts that had nothing to do with the OP's question. This does not happen in ES. If I see this type of crap happening again, I'm handing out bans and I don't care what job you do.

deadwood

psni wrote: »

This isn't AH people. I have just deleted over 20 nonsensical posts that had nothing to do with the OP's question. This does not happen in ES. If I see this type of crap happening again, I'm handing out bans and I don't care what job you do.

Fair enough. The other mods didn't seem to mind, but point taken.

Jemmy

deadwood wrote: »

Fair enough. The other mods didn't seem to mind, but point taken.

Never argue with mods!
Sorry psni! Wont happen again, i blame the boys! :cool:

But on a serious note they do alot for the public, that program on sky is well worth a watch. Very informative, its on the english mounted unit but they all do the same.

Victor

random wrote: »

They can't arrest someone on a horse

Yes they can - they've been known to grab people and "lift their collar".

The horses can also go places where going on foot or vehicle is impractical.

metman

Of course they can, and indeed do, make arrests!

I think its more about not wanting to make arrests, i.e. jobs/arrests being handed over to local units, as Mounted are a specialist unit who, if spending their time in custody, are not fulfilling their role of hi-viz/public order patrol.

Plus I don't know too many custody suites that have a place to tie up your horse.....:P

ems_12

I spent my work experience with the mounted unit aaaages ago. They have 3 main functions that are different than 'normal' gardai:

Community relations ("aww look at the lovely horsey" and people will talk to the Gardai more)

Off putting for criminals - app. you will be less likely to commit a crime because they are v. visable on the beat and obv. faster than a guy on foot.

Crowd Control - for things like matches etc, people will move quicker for a horse, and they are trained to help with crowd control.

To be honest you have to see the show the London Metropolitian Mounted Unit do to appreciate the value of the horses - jumping through rings of fire and the like!

metman

ems_12 wrote: »

I spent my work experience with the mounted unit aaaages ago. They have 3 main functions that are different than 'normal' gardai:

Community relations ("aww look at the lovely horsey" and people will talk to the Gardai more)

Off putting for criminals - app. you will be less likely to commit a crime because they are v. visable on the beat and obv. faster than a guy on foot.

Crowd Control - for things like matches etc, people will move quicker for a horse, and they are trained to help with crowd control.

To be honest you have to see the show the London Metropolitian Mounted Unit do to appreciate the value of the horses - jumping through rings of fire and the like!

Ems you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Mounted are a popular unit with civvies, probably the only coppers the public like to see.

Mounted are highly visible, and mobile. They reach places other cops can't reach.....with the exception of Air Support

Having done public order unit refresher training with Mounted Branch and having been deployed at football with Mounted Units, they are highly effective crowd control and very intimidating up close when they have their business head on.

Met Mounted Branch horses train with local PSUs, Support Group and are used to petrol bombs, fireworks, bricks, bottles and baton gunners letting off rounds.

JonAnderton

I remember walking back from a post one day somewhere through Soho when I heard the emergency alarm from a Cash In Transit van. As I made my way towards it, I turned to my right and saw, approaching from the distance a massive white horse, galloping (well, fast trotting) towards me... what a great sight...

Turned out it was a false alarm as usual... but brilliant that the first units on scene were a DPG post officer on foot and Roy Rogers from Mounted Branch...

Mutz

1 horse = 10 Gardai.

Never argue with a horse. :pac:

Remember The Big Top concerts in the Phoenix Park. The Horses were brilliant for keeping people off the Road which was pitch black.

metman

JonAnderton wrote: »

I remember walking back from a post one day somewhere through Soho when I heard the emergency alarm from a Cash In Transit van. As I made my way towards it, I turned to my right and saw, approaching from the distance a massive white horse, galloping (well, fast trotting) towards me... what a great sight...

Turned out it was a false alarm as usual... but brilliant that the first units on scene were a DPG post officer on foot and Roy Rogers from Mounted Branch...

Jon are you trying to tell us you and Roy Rogers came to the rescue?

Is this something you're going to be putting in your memoirs?

yayamark

There brilliant with crowd control and getting the public to move from one area to another.

I saw them in action before they asked people to move off the road and when they didn't they gave the horse an order and the horses backed their asses into the public who in turn moved Very quickly. Very funny and coo to watch. As said they do the job of many Gardai when the time arises.

Fyr.Fytr

JonAnderton wrote: »

I remember walking back from a post one day somewhere through Soho when I heard the emergency alarm from a Cash In Transit van. As I made my way towards it, I turned to my right and saw, approaching from the distance a massive white horse, galloping (well, fast trotting) towards me... what a great sight...

Turned out it was a false alarm as usual... but brilliant that the first units on scene were a DPG post officer on foot and Roy Rogers from Mounted Branch...

Doorways porches and gates actually do something other then tip their hat to ambassadors and look fancy in the top of the range kit??

metman

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Doorways porches and gates actually do something other then tip their hat to ambassadors and look fancy in the top of the range kit??

As Jon will no doubt attest, DPG were first on scene and were involved in the armed entry into the London siege in which an armed suspect was shot dead in Chelsea.

In some quarters DPG get slagged off as being doors, pavements and gates....but the OCU has at its disposal highly trained armed officers who man armed response vehicles providing armed cover to uniformed unarmed officers in the capital alongside CO19. DPG officers are trained and ready to deploy to incidents such as barricade and hostage situation scenarios as are CO19 ARV crews.

DPG crews deployed to the Chelsea siege with support of SFO.

To carry a firearm in the Met, no matter what your role, requires high levels of medical assesment, fitness and training.

To be in a position to man an entry team, as did DPG, takes bottle, skill, training and experience.

Fyr.Fytr

Sorry should have emphasised the point it was a tongue in cheek remark, my fault

(Gloss red cars look cack though)

metman

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

(Gloss red cars look cack though)

If they're turning out to an assistance call, not bothered what colour they are.

Fyr.Fytr

Very true

ems_12

Metman, this may be hijacking the thread somewhat, but what is the deal with joining the Met mounted unit?

In the gardai, you have to have at least 3 years as a garda on foot before applying for specialist units. (I think, if someone wants to correct me go ahead)

I did work experience with the gardai so was very interested, but never applied as there's no certainty that you will ever get into the specialist unit you want - same deal in the UK?

JonAnderton

Cheers for the backup Metman...

A lot of people still have that impression of the DPG, and I admit, some of the group have that attitude.. but there's a lot of young blood joining up and we're becomming more and more proactive... as you said, we have a fully trained ARV unit and trust me, without sounding like I'm knocking it the ARV course is just develpments on the basic tactics in the AFO course...

There's a lot of other stuff we do that I'm not going to go into here but trust me, the whole only Door, Porches and Gate thing is gradually eroding away... and for the better I say...

But you were right on the kit.. the fieldsuits and ballistic vest are the mutts..

Now, I've had my say... I have no ida about the recruitment process into Mounted Branch...lol

Random

Hi guys, thanks for the various bits of insight you've given .. if there's anything else please let me know

metman

Jon, no worries mate.

ems_12 wrote: »

Metman, this may be hijacking the thread somewhat, but what is the deal with joining the Met mounted unit?

In the gardai, you have to have at least 3 years as a garda on foot before applying for specialist units. (I think, if someone wants to correct me go ahead)

I did work experience with the gardai so was very interested, but never applied as there's no certainty that you will ever get into the specialist unit you want - same deal in the UK?

Ems, you can apply for specialist posts in the Met once you've completed your probation, it just depends on whether you can evidence the application or not.

A guy I know from my old nick, a very experienced area car driver (advanced driver) went to the Mounted Branch just over a year ago. He had 15 years service, and though thats by no means a requirement, I'm sure it didnt do him any harm.

Basically the places in Mounted are very sought after, but I was surprised to discover that you don't have to be a horse fanatic or even an experienced rider, to be accepted; the guy I knew had very little riding experience but was up for a new challenge and loved his public order stuff. At the time of his application he was taking lessons but Mounted Branch was more interested in his policing experience and background, and general ability as an officer in the first instance, if you can ride a horse even better but not a prerequisite. That's the key issue really. Lot of people fancy the sexier roles in policing, i.e driving fast cars on blue lights, armed response, mounted, air support, detective branch.....ultimately you still have to serve your time on the beat. If you don't see yourself doing that....

Anyway, the process (like everything else in the Met) involved a written application form evidencing key skill areas associated with the job description. On passing this he then had to do a basic riding assessment followed by an interview board, made up of experienced officers from Mounted, with the usual civvie HR person (maybe it was the board first then the assessment...don't remember). Anyways, he got in and last time I saw him he said he was loving it and should have done it years ago.

A big part of Mounted's work, that Joe Public tends not to realise, is the public order side, the riot training, petrol bombing, football policing etc etc. If you don't fancy that then Mounted might not be for you.

meathstevie

Don't know about the Garda mounted crew, I think they're very small in numbers aren't they ?

The one I've seen in action a few times is the Belgian Federal Police one at football matches and demo's getting out of hand. A squadron of cavalry charging down the road with 5ft batons in riotgear looks just bloody ferocious and cleans up a street or a square lightning quick. The only thing left for the boys and girls on foot is gathering up the bits and pieces in front of their shieldwall:D.

Besides that they do very much the same as the Garda mounted unit, patrol parks and other less vehicle accessible public areas, community relations work etc...

For illustration purposes...here's the Belgian FedPol boys providing a Royal Escort. The black Merc CLS contains Albert Von Saksen Coburg aka the King. His driver would be a cop as well, probaly a member of the Special Intervention Squadron ( SIE ). Their role and training would be a bit of a crossbreed of the ERU with a bit of ARW over here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqrYDBCkuA

And here's one in their more "normal" working environment, notice how the heap of rioters disperses when they charge through. If there's potentially offensive comments in the video my apologies but my soundcard is fecked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=PbG-6hfsSLE

cpstears

Some Images of the Garda Mounted on duty at the scene of a protest by members of the Travelling Community on the N3 near Castleknock in 2004.

The protest was over the closing of the Dunsink Lane road that connects River Road, Ashtown and Finglas.


Mounted Unit being Deployed


Showing their Presence






Patrolling the area

hunnymonster

I like the mounted gardai from a community relations point of view. On Grafton street it was always easy to see when they are about because of the extra height. My only problem is that they don't clean up their horse **** after them. We expect people with a poodle to poop-and-scoop but a horse load gets left for days.

Victor

hunnymonster wrote: »

My only problem is that they don't clean up their horse **** after them. We expect people with a poodle to poop-and-scoop but a horse load gets left for days.

Two completely different materials one is a serious risk to human health and the other is mostly grass.

owlwink

Victor wrote: »

Two completely different materials one is a serious risk to human health and the other is mostly grass.

My only issue with the Police riding horses is that I'm fataly allergic to horses. If they even touch me there is a chance I will die without a quick injection. Town is obviously a place I let my guard down until I see the police and all those horse and carraige things. Whenever I spot the police patrolling I have to run away from them. Always hoping that some day they don't spot me and think I'm running for other reasons. The fact ofthe matter is if they followed me for a closer look, they could potentially kill me. Hows that for civilian friendly . Just thought I would give things from this perspective as it is probably an interesting and unusualone.

Fyr.Fytr

Keep your epi pen of adrenaline with you and youll be fine

Victor

owlwink wrote: »

My only issue with the Police riding horses is that I'm fataly allergic to horses.

Have you let them know this?

Fyr.Fytr

Doubt he can get close enough

deadwood

I'm fatally allergic to double decker busses, so I try to avoid them by not standing in front of them.

owlwink

deadwood wrote: »

I'm fatally allergic to double decker busses, so I try to avoid them by not standing in front of them.

At least they don't meander down pedestrianised zones.

deadwood

owlwink wrote: »

At least they don't meander down pedestrianised zones.

Well...not every day.;)

spadder

I was driving behind a Garda Jeep and horsebox today,
It occures to me that the mounted Garda division are waste of money. I know I’ll get the horsey brigade telling me about horses are great in crowds and high level vision blah blah blah. This mostly comes from policing major events in the UK. Not really applicable to Ireland.
I think that this unit should be disbanded and the funds redirected to emergency response vehicles and more firearms training.

What’s the opinion of regular “infantry” Gardai?

Random

I had a similiar thread a while ago which may be of interest to you.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055339059

TheNog

Threads merged

deadwood

TheNog wrote: »

Threads merged

Does this mean I can rehash some of the lame posts that psni deleted in the last thread?:D

ste88m

hunnymonster wrote: »

I like the mounted gardai from a community relations point of view. On Grafton street it was always easy to see when they are about because of the extra height. My only problem is that they don't clean up their horse **** after them. We expect people with a poodle to poop-and-scoop but a horse load gets left for days.

No, they don't clean their Horse **** up after them.. If in Dublin they're meant to ring Dublin City Council to clean it for them. Not sure about other parts of the country.

McCrack

ste88m wrote: »

No, they don't clean their Horse **** up after them.. If in Dublin they're meant to ring Dublin City Council to clean it for them. Not sure about other parts of the country.

Don't ask me how I know this but I'm pretty sure horses and such animals are exempt from the Litter Act. Basically riders of horses (police or not) are not obliged to clean up horse waste.

I mean you would want to be carrying a shovel with you if you were obliged to.

Terrontress

spadder wrote: »

I was driving behind a Garda Jeep and horsebox today,
It occures to me that the mounted Garda division are waste of money. I know I’ll get the horsey brigade telling me about horses are great in crowds and high level vision blah blah blah. This mostly comes from policing major events in the UK. Not really applicable to Ireland.
I think that this unit should be disbanded and the funds redirected to emergency response vehicles and more firearms training.

What’s the opinion of regular “infantry” Gardai?

I am not a cop but think your post is nonsense.

We have a stadium in Dublin as large as anything in the UK. We have music festivals as large as anything in the UK. We have had public demonstrations on a similar scale to those in the UK. Our shopping streets are as busy as those in the UK. People here (excluding trouble makers) will be drawn towards police horses here as people in the UK.

What element of horseback policing do you think is more relevant to the UK than here?

spadder

happyhappy wrote: »

so we send emergency response vehicles with loads of firearms to police matches in croker or other public order incidents where high viz policing is required??? eh no, i don't think so!

by the way it is not the horsey brigade that will tell you horses are good in crowds it is the policing brigade that will tell you!!

My impression is that the Garda manpower and budgets are stretched to breaking point. I imagine the mounted div. is very expensive to run.
While it's nice to have a mounted division for PR and occasional use, at a time when gangland crime is out of control should all resources not be deployed to tackle it?

When the Gardai admit that they cannot protect witness's in Limerick ( On Matt Cooper yesterday, didn't get super's name)

Is not time to tie up the horses, re-train and re-deploy to the trouble spots where innocent people are being murdered?
I am intrested in serving members opinions please?

deadwood

spadder wrote: »

Is not time to tie up the horses, re-train and re-deploy to the trouble spots where innocent people are being murdered?
I am intrested in serving members opinions please?

"Gangland" is a buzzword used by the meeja at the minute to make headlines. Remember, more people are killed every year in road traffic accidents than all the murders, drug, gang and crime deaths combined. All resources can't be devoted to a small group of criminals in a few areas.

The public at large deserve the best all-round policing we can provide and this includes high visibility afforded by the mounted unit, albeit, occasionally, in relatively crime-free or seemingly pointless areas where joe public can see an approachable garda.

If there was a constant overt, approachable presence in some of these struggling areas down the years, some of these "gangland" (I hate that phrase, it seems to qualify a petty criminals existence) figures might have had a chance to kick a ball with the local guard, or pet a horse or work the lights in the patrol car, they might have a more realistic view of the gardai, rather than some contrived "boyz'n da hood, [EMAIL="f@$k"]f@$k[/EMAIL] da poliiice" crap they copy from popular media, and promoted by the likes of Paul Williams and Donal Mc Intyre.

These areas, and the youngsters who think they have some control over them, are in need of social reform before any efforts by the gardai can have a long term and lasting effect. If we start cutting back on the Mounted Unit to free up a handful of gardai and a few hundred grand a year, what's next? Community policing? Traffic Corps? A guard in unifrom prevents crime of all sorts. A mounted guard, they say, has the same visible impact of 5 uniform guards. Armed gardai, while necessary, are reactive rather than proactive.

gdamedic

spadder wrote: »

I was driving behind a Garda Jeep and horsebox today,
It occures to me that the mounted Garda division are waste of money. I know I’ll get the horsey brigade telling me about horses are great in crowds and high level vision blah blah blah. This mostly comes from policing major events in the UK. Not really applicable to Ireland.
I think that this unit should be disbanded and the funds redirected to emergency response vehicles and more firearms training.

What’s the opinion of regular “infantry” Gardai?

I would have to disagree with you on this post. The Mounted unit area a very good resource to have. I have worked with them a few times and they are brilliant in public order situations. Guns arent the answer to everything.

may i suggest the horses are used to round up all the cowboys in government...

I love to see them on the streets, more often would be nice.

cushtac

spadder wrote: »

Is not time to tie up the horses, re-train and re-deploy to the trouble spots where innocent people are being murdered?
I am intrested in serving members opinions please?

It's not that big a unit, re-deploying these members won't have the effects you imagine.