Teens falling pregnant to get council housing

RATM

From unison.ie



A POLITICIAN has claimed that a number of young women are getting pregnant solely to increase their chances of being housed by the local authority.

The councillor said a single mother told him she got pregnant so that the council would give her a house.

He even claimed that teens were looking for "advice on how to get pregnant".

Yesterday, Fine Gael councillor Darren Scully, a father of two, stood over the controversial comments that he first made at Tuesday's meeting of Naas Town Council.

But other councillors have distanced themselves from Mr Scully's claims and condemned his views.

"I fully stand over what I said," Cllr Scully told the Irish Independent. "I said there was a small percentage of women in the town of Naas who are getting pregnant so that they can get up the list and get a council house."

Devastated

Cllr Scully said since he made the remarks, he has received a number of calls of support from across the country.

"One clinical nurse in Louth rang me to say she had an 18-year-old in with her this morning and was devastated she wasn't pregnant because all of her friends had gotten houses or flats and she wanted advice on how to get pregnant."

The councillor's comments have enraged some parents, but he said he didn't mean to offend innocent people. "We should be encouraging young women to go out into the workplace, and to get an education and pay for their own house or apartment."

There are 269 people on the social housing list in Naas, and 118 are single parents, said Cllr Scully.

"There needs to be research done on this. One single mother explained to me how her friends had done it and other people have contacted me since to say the same.

"Saying it doesn't happen is putting your head in the sand -- we need proper statistics on it."

Another Naas councillor, Mary Glennon, has slammed Cllr Scully's claims.

"I think he's out of touch with reality. To say that people go through nine months of pregnancy and the trauma of labour to get a house is ridiculous.

"I couldn't believe that a young guy like that would come up with a reactionary statement like that. It's just not that easy to get a social house."

CEO of welfare group Treoir Margaret Dromey said there is "absolutely no evidence" to suggest women are getting pregnant to get a house.

- Eimear Ni Bhraonain

This is madness, fair play to yer man for having the balls to bring the topic up. Shame on any politician who says it doesn't happen in an attempt to keep the electorate sweet.
Any thoughts on this? Is it really just a small scale problem or more widespread?
Sounds pretty drastic if teenagers see having a baby as a way of securing their future....

cance

RATM wrote: »

He even claimed that teens were looking for "advice on how to get pregnant".

On a serious note, that really reflects well on the irish educational system,

serious note aside, Giggity.

Mr. Incognito

so, anyone fancy a roadtrip to Naas. Wouldn't mind housing a few young ones.

Steve_o

RATM wrote: »

"One clinical nurse in Louth rang me to say she had an 18-year-old in with her this morning and was devastated she wasn't pregnant because all of her friends had gotten houses or flats and she wanted advice on how to get pregnant."

Oh FFS, now this is bad... Getting pregnant just to get a council flat, these girls need a mighty good kickin' imo!!

gogglebok

RATM wrote: »

Any thoughts on this?

Aaaargh! A minor politician has made a claim which he says is based on a second-hand anecdote from an anonymous nurse! Man the barricades! Society is under threat! They are pelting the sacred institutions of our country with teenage wombs!

If anyone wants me I'll be in the bunker, pickling hay.

ntlbell

somemoron wrote:

"Saying it doesn't happen is putting your head in the sand -- we need proper statistics on it."

right.

jon1981

growing up in the inner city of Dublin, i have experienced this. Although people dont like this to be said about teens or unmarried women in general because it looks like its tarring all women in that situation. I think anyone that stands up and disagrees with him is deluded, because although there might be a minority of girls with that intention ...it does happen!!

giddynurse

feckin hell.. thats messed up man

mike65

Falling? Getting.

Mike.

Mossy Monk

To be fair to Mr Politician type I have heard of this going on years ago. The people distancing themselves from his comments need to take their heads from under the sand and look at the real world.

jon1981

of course i started something like this on here a while back based on personal experience (i.e. knowing a couple of girls) and i got shot down by the PC brigade

pigeonbutler

Fair play to him. Calling a spade a spade. For young women that aren't interested in education/career, having a baby is often their favorite career move!

seamus

Reminds me of ITV news last night. They had a piece on knife crime in the UK. They were going on about how this scumbag and that scumbag had been stabbed, and how even people in rural areas aren't safe and how all our kids are going around carrying knives and stabbing anyone who looks at them crosseyed and how society will collapse if we don't do anything about it and how we're all in so much danger.
This went on for about 15 minutes. Then a ten-second rider at the end of the report reminded people, "Oh yeah, figures also showed that the chance of being a victim of crime is at its lowest level in 21 years and crime is down 48%, but even so, YOU ARE IN SO MUCH DANGER! BE AFRAID!"

So some pituary retards are exploiting a loophole in a government system. SHOCK HORROR! RUN FOR THE HILLS MA BARKER!

:rolleyes:

pvt.joker

Plenty of high horses around here alright to be climbed upon.

The thing is even though if they can prove this is going on (which they cant) , can they do anything about it? They ll still give them the houses ?!

Jet Black

SetantaL wrote: »

so, anyone fancy a roadtrip to Naas. Wouldn't mind housing a few young ones.

YEAH rooooooooaaaaaaaddddddd tttrrrrrriiiiiippppp!!!!!!

jon1981

micmclo wrote: »

I remember that thread. You didn't get shot down by the PC brigade.:)
That poster Seahorse has a lot of first hand info on the situation and that's what swayed the arguement against you.

yes but i was not trying to say every teenage girl was doing it. Regardless of how they do it and how hard it is to get a house...it happens!

Sherifu

It's not a new thing by any means, I remember this kind of story from last year and the year before. Fair play to him for highlighting anyway.

gogglebok

Mossy Monk wrote: »

To be fair to Mr Politician type I have heard of this going on years ago. The people distancing themselves from his comments need to take their heads from under the sand and look at the real world.

The people who are ignoring the complete lack of evidence need to brush up their thinking skills.

Maybe it does happen. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's prevalent. Maybe it's rare.
Nobody has produced one atom of evidence, so why the rush to agree?

I imagine you heard of a fat man coming down a chimney years ago, but you've probably stopped basing your Christmas around it.

ntlbell

jon1981 wrote: »

yes but i was not trying to say every teenage girl was doing it. Regardless of how they do it and how hard it is to get a house...it happens!

Not if they stand up doing it!

get clue pls.

mike65

This is as old as housing lists.

Mike.

phasers

A girl from my school had a baby recently, and all through her pregnancy she bragged that she was going to get a free flat and loads of money from the state. When someone pointed out that she'd still be on a waiting list she laughed and didn't believe her.

Unfortunately, pregnant girls are a really common sight in my school now, and a lot of them are doing it for benefits and a flat.

jon1981

gogglebok wrote: »

Nobody has produced one atom of evidence, so why the rush to agree?

theres the difficult bit, you would never get any of these girls that did set out with the intention of getting pregnant to get a house to admit that. The evidence is there just not on a poxy report stamped by some official to say its official!

ntlbell

jon1981 wrote: »

theres the difficult bit, you would never get any of these girls that did set out with the intention of getting pregnant to get a house to admit that.

Yea, they're not THAT stupid.

Ahem.

jon1981

ntlbell wrote: »

Yea, they're not THAT stupid.

Ahem.

just clever enough to go "im a teen with a baby gimme gimme gimme gimme... "

*waits for an attack on said statement*

I've spoken to girls with this attitude they figure they will get more money to have a baby than they will from their hairdressing and beauty therapy careers and they figure they would rather do it while they are young since they've to have kids anyway
Since they are that young there monthers help them with the baby 50% of the time so they can still live the life they want.
My brother got his girlf pregnant and she has refused to live with him until the baby is in school as she wants her mother to help her with the baby (as apposed setting up home with him and giving the baby a more traditional upbringing of mam dad and baby in a home)

connundrum

I'd fall pregnant to get me a crib.

It'd have to be pimp through, with gold plated toilet seats.

If you create a system which is susceptible to abuse, then it will be abused.

gogglebok

jon1981 wrote: »

theres the difficult bit, you would never get any of these girls that did set out with the intention of getting pregnant to get a house to admit that. The evidence is there just not on a poxy report stamped by some official to say its official!

Where is the evidence?

jon1981

gogglebok wrote: »

Where is the evidence?

:rolleyes: seriously are you having a laugh... you obviously have never been in the company of these fine ladies. listen piss someone else off because your pissing me off with your ignorance.

Dudess

Careful there jon1981..

cance wrote: »

Giggity.

SetantaL wrote: »

so, anyone fancy a roadtrip to Naas. Wouldn't mind housing a few young ones.

Well aren't you the fickle bunch. Wouldn't they be too skangery?

mike65 wrote: »

Falling? Getting.

Mike.

I know, "falling" :rolleyes:.
Presumably it stems from a time when a woman getting pregnant out of wedlock was a "fallen" woman.

jon1981 wrote: »

of course i started something like this on here a while back based on personal experience (i.e. knowing a couple of girls) and i got shot down by the PC brigade

That's the thing, you knew a couple of girls. The problem is, there are those kindly folks who'll maintain this applies to ALL teen single mothers, and it's just not that black and white.

Considering the state of houses/flats given out to those who need them immediately (i.e. the higher standard one wants, the longer they'll have to wait) it's not always a wise plan by those who do adhere to it...

jon1981

Dudess wrote: »

Careful there jon1981..


Well aren't you the fickle bunch. Wouldn't they be too skangery?

I know, "falling" :rolleyes:.
Presumably it stems from a time when a woman getting pregnant out of wedlock was a "fallen" woman.

That's the thing, you knew a couple of girls. The problem is, there are those kindly folks who'll maintain this applies to ALL teen single mothers, and it's just not that black and white. Considering the state of house/flats given out to those who need them immediately (i.e. the higher standard one wants, the longer they'll have to wait) it's not always a good plan...

i did also say in another post that i wasn't saying all girls do it! but if i kno couple and other people know a couple more...well it starts to become alittle more common dont you think

gogglebok

- But Mr Holmes, if the Sultan's opal was hidden in the goose all along, what was he wearing on his turban at the Opera House?

- :rolleyes: seriously are you having a laugh... you obviously have never been in the company of these sultans. listen piss someone else off because your pissing me off with your ignorance.

- By Jove, he's right, Gregson. Arrest the sultan!

Degsy

seamus wrote: »

Reminds me of ITV news last night. They had a piece on knife crime in the UK. They were going on about how this scumbag and that scumbag had been stabbed, and how even people in rural areas aren't safe and how all our kids are going around carrying knives and stabbing anyone who looks at them crosseyed and how society will collapse if we don't do anything about it and how we're all in so much danger.
This went on for about 15 minutes. Then a ten-second rider at the end of the report reminded people, "Oh yeah, figures also showed that the chance of being a victim of crime is at its lowest level in 21 years and crime is down 48%, but even so, YOU ARE IN SO MUCH DANGER! BE AFRAID!"

So some pituary retards are exploiting a loophole in a government system. SHOCK HORROR! RUN FOR THE HILLS MA BARKER!

:rolleyes:

There was something on bbc last night called On the fiddle" where it went behind teh scenes with the beneifit fraud department in england.Basicly,there are people who've never worked a day in thier lives,get everything payed for by the government and have no intention of ever working.One particular yoke,when asked was she looking for a job,pointed at her brat and said,"thats my job".She later revealed that she worked for one day as a hairdresser but couldnt stand people" bossing her abahhht".Utter,utter,worthless lowlives.Peoples taxes are paying for these workshy chancers to stay in bed all day and they way they go on you'd think they were bringing the children up properly or something!

egan007

cance wrote: »

Giggity.

LOL

Dudess

Check out this knacker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzy_Bardsley

gogglebok

Degsy wrote: »

There was something on bbc last night called On the fiddle" where it went behind teh scenes with the beneifit fraud department in england.Basicly,there are people who've never worked a day in thier lives,get everything payed for by the government and have no intention of ever working.One particular yoke,when asked was she looking for a job,pointed at her brat and said,"thats my job".She later revealed that she worked for one day as a hairdresser but couldnt stand people" bossing her abahhht".Utter,utter,worthless lowlives.Peoples taxes are paying for these workshy chancers to stay in bed all day and they way they go on you'd think they were bringing the children up properly or something!

And that's the difference between the BBC and some frothing turd in a county council. They did the research. They didn't just make something up and wait for the tut-tuts to roll in and deplore all over the place.

Vegeta

gogglebok wrote: »

- But Mr Holmes, if the Sultan's opal was hidden in the goose all along, what was he wearing on his turban at the Opera House?

- :rolleyes: seriously are you having a laugh... you obviously have never been in the company of these sultans. listen piss someone else off because your pissing me off with your ignorance.

- By Jove, he's right, Gregson. Arrest the sultan!

Are you genuinely saying that you don't believe any single mothers get pregnant on purpose for the benefits?

jon1981

Vegeta wrote: »

Are you genuinely saying that you don't believe any single mothers get pregnant on purpose for the benefits?

hes just playing devils advocate... there has to be one!

Westwood

RATM wrote: »

To say that people go through nine months of pregnancy and the trauma of labour to get a house is ridiculous.

ROFL!! this person is for the birds...I suppose people in Nass are horrified that their poor wee young lasses are getting preggers because even in Nass you cant afford to buy a house anymore. The reasoning is it beats having to work part time in some ****ty job for buttons and try and pay a 300k mortgage while raising your child all alone. id say 80% if not more of unmarried mothers have the boyfriend living with them and getting a free house and benefits. if you drive through every council estate in Ireland you'll notice several cars parked in driveways. Mainly taxis, couriers vans and builders vans. This has been going on since the late 70s. These councillors need to live there for a couple of years to actually realise what’s going on. Anyone who’s never lived or mingled among these people are so out of touch with reality its not even funny. People need to wake up and smell the coffee, OMG

gogglebok

Vegeta wrote: »

Are you genuinely saying that you don't believe any single mothers get pregnant on purpose for the benefits?

No.

Darren Scully said X was true. Margaret Dromey said there is no evidence for it. That's all we have. There is not a single fact here. So why aren't Scully and his boardsalikes producing one?

I'm perfect willing to believe that some young women have got pregnant to get a house. But not because someone I've never heard of tells me it's so.

As connundrum said, any system that can be abused will be abused. If it has happened, there are interesting issues to be discussed. But let's act as if evidence meant something. Isn't that what we evolved for?

gogglebok

jon1981 wrote: »

hes just playing devils advocate... there has to be one!

You do know what a devil's advocate is for, right? It's to challenge your case so that you can discover its weaknesses and fix them. So far you've brought rolleyes. Did I take my horns out of my briefcase for this?

Chips Lovell

So some county councillor has made an outrageous claim based on scanty anecdotal evidence to get himself into the papers. I'm shocked. This has never happened before.

sickpuppy32

i remember a few years ago a few single mothers were been interviewed, one of them kept saying she got pregnant cause "sure its the fashion", the interviewer kept trying to stop her saying that cause he knew the reaction it'd get and it'd go against his PC agenda.
I'm a single parent and when my daughter was born, other "not-working class" single mothers were tellling my ex to apply for a house and not to put my name on the birth cert " cause you'll get more money". luckily she had nice nmiddle class parents to talk sense into her

debby08

not every1 is like that amd the price of houses these day they wud never afford one any other way they are prob tinkin.that JON1981,u mustnt b liked around naas 4 sum reason and i can c y the way u tink of the young girls there.

jon1981

debby08 wrote: »

not every1 is like that amd the price of houses these day they wud never afford one any other way they are prob tinkin.that JON1981,u mustnt b liked around naas 4 sum reason and i can c y the way u tink of the young girls there.

im not from naas and what way do i think of young girls?

Dudess

Read the charter re textspeak. It hurts the eyes...

jon1981

gogglebok wrote: »

You do know what a devil's advocate is for, right? It's to challenge your case so that you can discover its weaknesses and fix them. So far you've brought rolleyes. Did I take my horns out of my briefcase for this?

ok fair enough there is no paper based evidence or recorded evidence just peoples experiences, but i do you ever see this being looked into, maybe the politician that made that statement will now pursue this to back up his statement ..who knows. but the problem is there and its just being ignored.

debby08

jon1981 the way u sayin they all getin preggers to get houses in naas,it gng on everywer ,teen mums.

Agamemnon

Westwood wrote: »

id say 80% if not more of unmarried mothers have the boyfriend living with them and getting a free house and benefits.

I doubt if it's 80% but there's a lot of it going on. My friend's partner is "officially" a single mother even though he lives with her. One time, they were living in a nice apartment and the welfare office (or whatever they're called) sent someone around to check that she really was a single parent. My friend was in the house at the time and he climbed out the balcony window and ran off before he could be seen.

seamus

jon1981 wrote: »

ok fair enough there is no paper based evidence or recorded evidence just peoples experiences, but i do you ever see this being looked into, maybe the politician that made that statement will now pursue this to back up his statement ..who knows. but the problem is there and its just being ignored.

But how can you do anything about it?

"Hey you, you got pregnant just to get a gaff didn't ye?"

"Yeah, but now I've got the kid, what are you going to do?"

Aside from educating people and dropping social welfare rates, you can't really say that girl X is less entitled to council housing than girl Y because girl X got pregnant on purpose.

is_that_so

Even if it is true and tbh stories like this have been around since the 80s and are part truth, part fiction in my view. There are some who probably do so but would be hard to prove, even for Paddy O'Gorman .
IMO there is no real way to combat it beyond education and trying to improve opportunities while limiting teh potential to commit fraud.

It reminds of what used to be called "generational unemployment" - where whole generations and their children were unemployed because it became the norm. Even with these types of scenarios I would rather our social system than the US any day.

Dudess

debby08 wrote: »

jon1981 the way u sayin they all getin preggers to get houses in naas,it gng on everywer ,teen mums.

Please stop using text-speak.