Puppies Fighting?

KatCookie

We have 4 three month old male sheepdog pups (out of a litter of 7). we had let them to run around in our garden and a while ago two of them got into a huge big fight, and had to be separated.
i cleaned both dogs up, the smaller pup had more cuts on him on his neck/chin area and the bigger of the dogs just had a small cut under his eye.

Now im wondering what to do now, they all sleep in a small shed on our farm, the bigger pup usually bosses the other three around when they are getting fed, but how can we put all four pups into the same shed becasue they will fight again

We had never seen them fighting before, except in playing and we think it was the larger pup who started it because he also tried to fight with the other two pups who werent involved.

Any advice?

bernard0368

Let them at it, they are sorting out the pack order.

animalcrazy

You should let them at it but not if they are seriously hurting eachother then separate them, neuteuring might help calm them down.

KatCookie

you can neuter at 3 months?

i dont think we want to spend the money, we are trying to sell/give them away
My brother thinks that we should be selling them but i'd just be happy to give them to a good home!

peasant

Is there an older dog around as well? If so, let that do the nanny job. (and no, you can't neuter at 3 months)

KatCookie

there is the first time mother, the father, and a labrador who is more of a house dog, the other two are farm-dogs.. both the labrador and the father will growl or bark at the pups who constantly follow them around
the mother lost interest in the pups after about 5 weeks old, but will now play with them. the 3 adult dogs have a pecking order to so speak, and the largest pup seems to be the boss of the other pups .. if that helps at all.

peasant

Well, with the parents and an "uncle" there, they should really be able to sort the pups out.

Have you the pups separated from the other dogs ...you shouldn't do that.

Also make sure that they get enough interaction with you and yours (children also, if you have) so that they don't get people shy

Saruman

animalcrazy wrote: »

You should let them at it but not if they are seriously hurting eachother then separate them, neuteuring might help calm them down.

This is perhaps what should have been done to the pups parents Sorry but it has to be said.

animalcrazy

Oh I thought you were keeping them, maybe you should just give them away instead of selling them because they are getting a bit out of hand. I don't have much experience with this so I'll leave it to the experts

animalcrazy

But I think the parents should be neuteured, then you won't have this problem in future.

KatCookie

Saruman wrote: »

This is perhaps what should have been done to the pups parents Sorry but it has to be said.

We know.. we learnt our lesson...

peasant wrote: »

Well, with the parents and an "uncle" there, they should really be able to sort the pups out.

Have you the pups separated from the other dogs ...you shouldn't do that.

Also make sure that they get enough interaction with you and yours (children also, if you have) so that they don't get people shy

actually the labrador is a female..
and we have them separated from the rest of the dogs in the sense that we feed and let them sleep in a shed separately but we let them out for most of the day for exercise and play

they get plenty of interation with kids and adults, so i dont think that is a problem,
the labrador is a bit jealous of them and we can understand why she growls as our garden is her territory now (she came to live with us about 2 yrs ago)

KatCookie

animalcrazy wrote: »

Oh I thought you were keeping them, maybe you should just give them away instead of selling them because they are getting a bit out of hand. I don't have much experience with this so I'll leave it to the experts

Why, you want one?
i'd be hapy to give them away to anyone on Boards!

peasant

KatCookie wrote: »

and we have them separated from the rest of the dogs in the sense that we feed and let them sleep in a shed separately but we let them out for most of the day for exercise and play

I think (but I could be wrong) this is where your problem stems from. Father or mother dog would normally watch over the pups, especially at feeding times and teach them some manners / keep them in check.

Now that they're feeding (and sleeping) on their own, the one pup with bullying tendencies has room to establish itself. Pups will alway wrangle and tossle, but they shouldn't fight seriously. Normally the parents would put a quick end to that.

Don't know if your dogs are up to that, but I would give it a try (under supervision at first)

KatCookie

That sounds like a good idea..
my brother tells me that the big one gets fed on his own because he bullies the others, but at this stage should we be just having a bowl for each of them?
the puppies get fed twice a day(or maybe once at this stage, i'm not usually around)
but the parents have their own feed that is there constantly
and the father doesnt have any bond with them at all, he's a bit moody

mary123

These pups still should be on 3 meals aday at this age, certainly not 1.

peasant

Yes, a bowl each ...and more than one or two feeds, please.

At that age it is better for the pups to get small portions during the day, minimum three feeds, if you can fit another one in, all the better.

The moody father ...is he moody all the time and towards everybody or just towards the pups? If it's the pups only, then that would be his job, more or less, to teach them manners and be a bit of a spoil-sport.

If hower he's generally a grumpy fella, maybe it's better to keep him away from the pups.

whitser

bernard0368 wrote: »

Let them at it, they are sorting out the pack order.

exactly. i've had litters and you should of seen them go at each other. its an important part of pups growing up.

KatCookie

The father isnt overly vicious, dislikes the postman, some people going up and down the road, isnt too vicious at the pups, just growls, doesnt go after them in a huge way, just tells them that hes the boss basically!

they always get two feeds at the same time everyday, if they are up in the garden they usually get more.. but thats what we can fit in!

peasant

KatCookie wrote: »

The father ... isnt too vicious at the pups, just growls, doesnt go after them in a huge way, just tells them that hes the boss basically!

That's what they need and nobody better to tell them than another dog

bernard0368

The problem here seems to be that you have created two packs the adults and the pups. They should have been left together. The older dogs would have put manners on them. Try and reintroduce them there will be a little skin, hair and cussing but it will sort itself out.

Dogs are pack animals and in that they all have their place in the hieracy.

Honey-ec

The one thing I'd add to this is please ensure you have a spay/neuter contract in place with the new owners whenever you do sell/giveaway the puppies.

I'm gathering that this litter was unplanned & unwanted, the last thing you want is to allow this to potentially happen again - times the number of puppies in the litter.

mary123

KatCookie wrote: »

they always get two feeds at the same time everyday, if they are up in the garden they usually get more.. but thats what we can fit in!

That really aint an excuse, u have to make time to feed the pups the right amount and the right no of feeds a day. U cant just give them 2 feeds even if u give them a bigger amount , puppies tummies are like babies they need to be feed little and often to keep their tummies right. I really think if u havent the time to do this u really need to get them moved on as soon asap before they end up with probs. Maybe this is another reason why they are fighting maybe they are hungry.

KatCookie

mary123 wrote: »

Maybe this is another reason why they are fighting maybe they are hungry.

They werent fighting over food, and it was very early in the morning when they fought so i dont think they were hungry!

Honey-ec wrote: »

The one thing I'd add to this is please ensure you have a spay/neuter contract in place with the new owners whenever you do sell/giveaway the puppies.

It's hard enought to get rid of them without putting them down!

Whispered

KatCookie wrote: »

It's hard enought to get rid of them without putting them down!

Nice, irresponsible allows her bitch to have pups, with one of her own dogs, (did you think they just wouldn't go near each other?) doesn't want to spend the money on getting the pups neutered, doesn't want to have a neuter agreement with any potential owners, will happily give them away to "anybody on Boards". Pretty much sums it up?

You allowed these pups to come into existance. It wasn't wanted, but it happened. It is now your responsibility to get these pups neutered, or ensure there is a neuter agreement, so this does not happen again.

Obviously get your bitches done too, the fact this hadn't been done when keeping adult dog and bitches together is incredible.

Contact rescues, they might take them. NOT THE POUND OR SPCA, the pups will be PTS.

KatCookie

Woah woah woah! stop right there!

Technically i'm not the owner of any of these dogs! The father is owned by my granny,who lives next door, the labrador was neutered when my aunt found her & rescued from a pound that she was gonna be put down in, my aunt gave her to us as she was unable to keep her because we take care of our dogs! (the puppies got their expensive injections, treating all of them for lice etc
Yes, i know it wasnt very respsonsible of us for the sheepdogs to get together, but accidents happen, and theres nothing we can do about it now, we are planning to get her neutered but the vet said that we need to wait until she comes into heat again, and that hasnt happened yet!
You make it sound like we dont love our dogs, of course we do we have been very successful with all the pets, be it rabbits,cats or dogs!

of course we know about not bringing animals to Pounds, we dont want to give them to rescues either because we are happy enough to keep them at home, there are other pets who need Rescueing more than these

and its not "incredible" that male and females live together, the mother is an excellently trained sheepdog who had only came into heat once or twice before, we hadnt realised she was in heat that time!
futhermore, we would like to try training them when they reach about 6 months old and then selling them on as they are much more valuable then, moneywise and valueable to the new owner, and to the dog itself, a well trained dog is more likely to be happier!

there, rant over!

Whispered

KatCookie wrote: »

Technically i'm not the owner of any of these dogs! .........
Yes, i know it wasnt very respsonsible of us for the sheepdogs to get together, but accidents happen, and theres nothing we can do about it now, !

Accidents do happen, but you need to do what you can to stop it here. It was due to your (possibly 2 minute) laspe of responsibility that the pups are here, so it is now your responsibility to fix it, or do what you can. This means getting them neutered. I know you said that "you're not sure if you want to spend that money" but unfortunetly, if you don't chances are they will end up in the same predicament when older, and their new owners might find it easier to just drown the pups. Or else a volunteer rescue might end up with them, if they are lucky.

I am well aware of the price of the vax's.

KatCookie wrote: »

You make it sound like ......

I didn't make anything sound like anything, I simply summerised what happened. Was I wrong on any of my points? I'm not taking a pop at the fact your bitch got pregnant, just that you seem so flippant about the pups.

KatCookie wrote: »

of course we know about not bringing animals to Pounds, we dont want to give them to rescues either because we are happy enough to keep them at home, there are other pets who need Rescueing more than these

Not everybody knows not to go near the pounds with unwanted pets. I just wanted to make sure you didn't bring these pups there thinking they would be rehomed.

KatCookie wrote: »

and its not "incredible" that male and females live together, the mother is an excellently trained sheepdog who had only came into heat once or twice before, we hadnt realised she was in heat that time!

Excellently trained sheep dogs get pregnant the same as other dogs. The fact she was old enough to go into heat "once or twice" and she was with an unneutered male is incredible to me. I'm sorry, but it is. When a dog is only starting to have heats, they sometimes don't even show. You cannot keep them with males without a high risk of pregnancy. If you didn't want pups, they should not have been together.

KatCookie wrote: »

futhermore, we would like to try training them when they reach about 6 months old

But you said you would give them away now to "anybody on Boards".

KatCookie wrote: »

moneywise and valueable to the new owner, and to the dog itself, a well trained dog is more likely to be happier!

I fully agree with this, working dogs in good homes are often happier, and likely to be treated better as a valuable asset to whoever owns them. But if this is the case, and you think you will be able to sell them anyway, would you not get them neutered? This will also make them more valuable to a potential owner. As well as ensure you're not selling them to someone who only wants them for breeding.

End of my rant

Have you got any pics?

mary123

I wonder did u mishear the vet as u do not wait till the dog is back in heat, this is the time u do not get them spayed. As the pups are now 3 months old i would certainly be bringing mammy back to the vets to get spayed now. If the vet wont spay her asap i would certainly be going to a new vet.

KatCookie

helena.ryan wrote: »

Accidents do happen, but you need to do what you can to stop it here. It was due to your (possibly 2 minute) laspe of responsibility that the pups are here, so it is now your responsibility to fix it, or do what you can. This means getting them neutered. I know you said that "you're not sure if you want to spend that money" but unfortunetly, if you don't chances are they will end up in the same predicament when older, and their new owners might find it easier to just drown the pups. Or else a volunteer rescue might end up with them, if they are lucky.

well honestly, im not the one who runs this house so i wouldnt have the money. and we do intend to get her neutered. In all the time of us having dogs this is the very first time that we ended up with a litter of pups

Not everybody knows not to go near the pounds with unwanted pets. I just wanted to make sure you didn't bring these pups there thinking they would be rehomed.

Well. a small amount of them are rehomed, like the labrador we have, one of the women in the pound brought her home for a night so she wouldnt be put down, adn that happned more than once, shes such a nice dog

When a dog is only starting to have heats, they sometimes don't even show. You cannot keep them with males without a high risk of pregnancy. If you didn't want pups, they should not have been together.

We didnt see her heats as she is relatively new, we bought her because my grandfather thought it would be useful to have a properly trained farm dog

But you said you would give them away now to "anybody on Boards".

i was just being nice as i would love to give away these pups to a new home, of course i'd try to get to know the person a little bit!

I fully agree with this, working dogs in good homes are often happier, and likely to be treated better as a valuable asset to whoever owns them. But if this is the case, and you think you will be able to sell them anyway, would you not get them neutered? This will also make them more valuable to a potential owner. As well as ensure you're not selling them to someone who only wants them for breeding.

well theres the whole issue of the costs there, and we will think of crossing that bridge when we get to it.. for now, we wait until the dog is in heat .. and then a little trip to the vets is in order

sorry for being rude, but i do care for the puppies, it'd be hard not to!

KatCookie

yes, on second thought, i realise that they were born at the start of May, making them two months old.. not three

animalcrazy

You don't have to wait till she is in heat and if you had money problems then you would have certain welfares and you can get the spay done really cheaply with certain schemes, that is what we did. So you really don't have an excuse for not neuteuring.

animalcrazy

The pups are beautiful though, since you offered me I would love to take one but my parents wouldn't be very happy!

Whispered

KatCookie wrote: »

well honestly, im not the one who runs this house so i wouldnt have the money. and we do intend to get her neutered. In all the time of us having dogs this is the very first time that we ended up with a litter of pups

Thats fair enough, but the pups are here and need to be looked after. Perhaps if you could persuade whoever does run the house that they will be worth more if neutered when the time comes?

KatCookie wrote: »

Well. a small amount of them are rehomed, like the labrador we have, one of the women in the pound brought her home for a night so she wouldnt be put down, adn that happned more than once, shes such a nice dog

!

Yes but its a small minority, a very small minority. She was one of the very lucky few. The vast majority of dogs who go to the pound don't get back out.

KatCookie wrote: »

We didnt see her heats as she is relatively new, we bought her because my grandfather thought it would be useful to have a properly trained farm dog

I'm sure thats easy to happen, bit this is why its important that these pups get neutered. Because it can happen so easily and you dont want the pups pups being unwanted dogs too.

KatCookie wrote: »

i was just being nice as i would love to give away these pups to a new home, of course i'd try to get to know the person a little bit!

Can you get me pics?

KatCookie wrote: »

well theres the whole issue of the costs there, and we will think of crossing that bridge when we get to it.. for now, we wait until the dog is in heat .. and then a little trip to the vets is in order

Firstly, you cannot neuter a bitch in heat, she should definately be done now.

On the issue of costs, I understand this, but you have a responsibility to the pups and your bitch.

KatCookie wrote: »

sorry for being rude, but i do care for the puppies, it'd be hard not to!

Which is the only reason I asked the questions, there are too many pups that are unwanted, and I get stupidly upset over it.

(although not as bad as I was over the F word last night, :eek:)

Toulouse

KatCookie wrote: »

well theres the whole issue of the costs there, and we will think of crossing that bridge when we get to it.. for now, we wait until the dog is in heat .. and then a little trip to the vets is in order

No, did you not see Mary123's post? Vets do not spay when a bitch is in heat, too much blood flow to the area. You must have misheard him, you have to get a bitch spayed in between heats which would be now.

Please do not wait until she comes in heat again.

KatCookie

we arent that poor, there are just people in the family who think that neutering the dogs doesnt come up very high on their list of priorities!


this isnt the problem, if i am an "irresponsible" dog owner as i have been called, its my own fault. dont attack me over something that happened in the past. If it happens again-which i dont think it will, we shall get the vet to put them down, we wouldnt drown them or anything that horrible
but the problem i have is the dogs fighting which is needed to be fixed quite quickly for the sake of the puppies!
EDIT: ok , ok, i wasnt at the vets personally, i do think that i may have heard wrong, i see that the dog needs to be neutered, i'll try get it done, but ike i said, thats not the issue i want to debate

and there are pics up already

Toulouse

KatCookie wrote: »

If it happens again-which i dont think it will, we shall get the vet to put them down, we wouldnt drown them or anything that horrible
but the problem i have is the dogs fighting which is needed to be fixed quite quickly for the sake of the puppies!

:eek: Listen here now before you write anything else that offends my eyes. You need to get back onto your vet. Bitches typically come in heat every 6 months. They are spayed between heats and if you want to dispute that some more I will give you a list of vets numbers the length of my arm and they will all tell you the same thing.

I'm not going to say any of the things I am thinking atm but I have no doubt that somebody will.

You have been given lots of advice about the pups fighting, sort it out.

animalcrazy

just to let you know if you are going to wait till she is in heat (which you shouldn't and the vet couldn't be that great if that is what he is telling you) she will mate straight away again. If this happens you can still get her spayed within the first couple of weeks! So there is no excuse. What county are you in? Would you consider getting foster homes for these puppies? You could ask people to volunteer to look after each individual puppy until you or the foster person finds a home for it? It seems urgent that the pups are re-homed because it sounds to me like you are going to keep them for a long time and before you know that you will be landed with more puppies!

Whispered

KatCookie wrote: »

we arent that poor, there are just people in the family who think that neutering the dogs doesnt come up very high on their list of priorities!

Not a priority, a responsibility. Attitudes like this are the reason pounds are full and thousands of dogs get pts every year. Nobody said you are poor.

KatCookie wrote: »

this isnt the problem, if i am an "irresponsible" dog owner as i have been called, its my own fault.

The following quote supports this.

KatCookie wrote: »

If it happens again-which i dont think it will, we shall get the vet to put them down, we wouldnt drown them or anything that horrible

It would probably cost as much to get this done as it would to neuter the bitch. Although I have no idea how much it would cost to get a litter PTS. If your family does not think it's important to neuter their dog I highly doubt htey will spend money on getting something done that they can do for free.

KatCookie wrote: »

but the problem i have is the dogs fighting which is needed to be fixed quite quickly for the sake of the puppies!

This is true, sorry for going off topic, but this is something which I think is very important.

I can't see pics.

animalcrazy

And you just lied and said that the vet told you to wait until she is in heat? *sighs* you have alot to learn. And what do you mean you would get the vet to put down anymore puppies that are born...here is what you do...GET THOSE PUPPIES OUT OF THERE AND INTO LOVING HOMES! AND GET THAT DOG SPAYED OR ELSE GIVE HER TO A RESCUE!DON'T WAIT UNTIL YOU ''TRAIN'' THEM BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING TO END UP HAVING MORE UNWANTED PUPPIES!

Whispered

animalcrazy wrote: »

The pups are beautiful though, since you offered me I would love to take one but my parents wouldn't be very happy!

I can't see the pics, where are they?

KatCookie

animalcrazy wrote: »

And you just lied and said that the vet told you to wait until she is in heat? *sighs* you have alot to learn. And what do you mean you would get the vet to put down anymore puppies that are born...here is what you do...GET THOSE PUPPIES OUT OF THERE AND INTO LOVING HOMES! AND GET THAT DOG SPAYED OR ELSE GIVE HER TO A RESCUE!DON'T WAIT UNTIL YOU ''TRAIN'' THEM BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING TO END UP HAVING MORE UNWANTED PUPPIES!

i didnt lie! i made a mistake
get off my back,i cant exactly bring her to a vet right at this very minute

helena.ryan wrote: »

Not a priority, a responsibility. Attitudes like this are the reason pounds are full and thousands of dogs get pts every year.

Well thats not my fault, i cant change the attitude of people that i live with in an hour or two and they arent even here!

If your family does not think it's important to neuter their dog I highly doubt htey will spend money on getting something done that they can do for free.

they wouldnt drown them. Full Stop

This is true, sorry for going off topic, but this is something which I think is very important.

i think its important too but i just want help with my dogs fighting..

Pics are on page 2 post #29

lily4

The pups are gorgeous kat !

Animalcrazy , why are you shouting in capital letters saying the puppies need loving homes ??? It sounds like they're being well looked after and selling them / homing them trained at 6 months is fine. What is wrong with that???
Although I would spay/ neuter if homing at that age.

yes agreed with everyone else to get Mum spayed before she goes into heat again.

Again Animalcrazy why should she go to a rescue ???

boomerang

The pups would be better off going to homes now, where they'll be housetrained, leadtrained, and socialised, than waiting until they are six months old and selling them on to farmers to train as working dogs.

I can guarantee you that if you sell these pups to other farmers, they will not be neutered, because most farmers believe that neutering ruins the dog. Your pups will go on to sire many more pups, not all of which will have the good fortune to have a humane death at the vets - most likely they'll be dumped or shot if the farmer decides they've no working potential.

If you keep the pups until they're six months old and they don't sell, you will have very unrehomable pups on your hands - pups that have lived all their short lives in a shed, and have not had any proper handling or exposure to the different situations they would face in a pet home. I can tell you now, the market for collie pups is well over-saturated - the country is teeming with young collies and collie crosses. The earlier you rehome these pups the better, as once they've past the cute puppyish stage, you're going to find it all the harder to place them into pet homes.

I can also tell you that if a farmer buys one of these pups from you as a working dog, and they don't pass muster, that dog is going to be done away with ASAP. In my experience, farmers are not known for their sentimentality when it comes to their working animals.

If your granny is on the old age pension, bring the bitch to a vet and have it spayed in your granny's name, under the Dogs Trust scheme. It will cost €20. (You'll need to bring your granny's pension book with you as proof that she qualifies under the scheme's criteria.)


It costs a good €50 - €70 to euthanise a dog at the vet, because of the cost of cremation. So a litter of say, six pups PTS is going to cost €300.

As opposed to a cost of €20 to neuter the bitch, which is better for the bitch in health-terms, and will make sure this doesn't happen again.

I would try contacting different rescues for help in rehoming these pups, for the simple reason that they may be better placed than you are to get these pups into appropriate, responsible homes. Lots of people like the look of collies and think they'll be a great pet because they're so smart. WRONG! Collies need a very specific type of home. Rescues will weed out homes that won't suit.

peasant

If I may stick my oar in ?

Some people need a bit of a reality check here. Yes, the mother wasn't neutered when she should have been, but that can be rectified now and I think the OP has got the message.

As far as the pups are concerned ...
a) they are two months old, that is too soon for rehoming
b) contrary to the gospel of many here, a "loving home" in solitary confinement for half the day and a few walks around the block for compensation isn't necessarily the kind of life a dog would prefer. Right now those pups are best off where they are, with their siblings and their parents and some people that look after them
c) dogs that are the offspring off sucessful working sheepdogs are probably better off becoming trained sheepdogs themselves. A strong herding instinct with no outlet is the last thing you want in a family dog in suburbia ...it'll be nothing but trouble

animalcrazy

Being fed once a day is not enough for puppies. I'd rather she was given a better home then being un-spayed, having tons of puppies that are pts or ending up in the same situation and possibly ending up with cervical cancer, that's the way I feel about it. In a rescue she would be spayed.

mary123

Please please please u can not, i have already posted this, u can not get a dog spayed while she is in heat, some times a vet will do an emergency spay but they dont like to do this. Please please please get her done now.

Sorry never saw this page just read to page 2. Doh

If u like i could take a pup of u. Also have a few people looking for puppies at the moment, all homes will be fully home checked and follow up calls made. And they will all be spayed/nurered at 6 months.

animalcrazy

The pics of the puppies are at the end of page two.

boomerang

I doubt it will be rectified, Peasant... The OP says the dog is an "excellently trained sheepdog" and has said they intend to sell the pups.

There is an incentive here NOT to neuter.

Plus, even if the mother is doing well as a working dog, doesn't automatically mean that the working drive in the pups will be as strong... Some of them may not make the grade as working dogs at all.

If the pups are left as they are, and don't sell as working dogs at six months old, what will be their fate then, when they'll be way behind in terms of training and socialisation as pets? And I do think there are suitable "pet" homes out there for working sheepdogs - the point is you need an owner who will channel the dog's drives appropriately.

What will happen to those pups sold as working dogs, if they don't make the grade? In my experience, failed working sheepdogs get dumped, shot, PTS, or just as bad - chained up and neglected for the rest of their lives.

Plus I wouldn't consider eight weeks too young to rehome - certainly it's the minimum age for rehoming, but surely they can be rehomed from any time onwards now?

peasant

boomerang wrote: »

The pups would be better off going to homes now, where they'll be housetrained, leadtrained, and socialised, than waiting until they are six months old and selling them on to farmers to train as working dogs.

I would try contacting different rescues for help in rehoming these pups, for the simple reason that they may be better placed than you are to get these pups into appropriate, responsible homes. Lots of people like the look of collies and think they'll be a great pet because they're so smart. WRONG! Collies need a very specific type of home. Rescues will weed out homes that won't suit.

boomerang wrote: »

I
If the pups are left as they are, and don't sell as working dogs at six months old, what will be their fate then, when they'll be way behind in terms of training and socialisation as pets? And I do think there are suitable "pet" homes out there for working sheepdogs - the point is you need an owner who will channel the dog's drives appropriately.


Plus I wouldn't consider eight weeks too young to rehome - certainly it's the minimum age for rehoming, but surely they can be rehomed from any time onwards now?

I simply take umbrage (from a dogs point of view) that a "pet" home is heaven on earth and the only suitable place for a dog.

What is wrong with trying to get a sheepdog to grow up in its natural habitat, working with sheep? Nothing, that's what.

EDIT as an add on

The pounds and rescues in this country are overflowing with Collies and their mixes ...are you seriously trying to make me believe that any rescue (not specialised in collies and I only know of one of those) will have the time to sift through the applicants to find someone who will be able to cope with a Collie that may have a strong herding drive? If there are any applicants for Collies at all, that is...

boomerang

Absolutely nothing wrong with a working sheepdog doing what it was bred to do... :cool: The problem as I see it, and in my experience, is that so many Irish working sheepdogs don't tend to be well looked after. Chained up for long hours, painful injuries such as fractures home-treated with splints rather than paying the vet for surgery and a better outcome, fed a mush of scraps and cheap dog food so their teeth rot in their head, never neutered so litter after litter of pups are drowned... It aint pretty.

I'm with a rescue group and we often take in collie pups. They go to homes like mine. My sheepdog has a strong working drive (strong eye, strong nip-reflex, strong chasing instinct - all the hallmarks of a working dog) but she is not confident and can be quite ditzy - she'd have a herd of sheep scattered to the four corners of the globe - she's just not sensible or independent enough to make it as a working dog. But she gets pots of exercise with me off-lead (freshly shorn hayfields are her favourite) and we've done obedience and agility together. She gets two runs every day in the forestry, off lead. She's never left alone because although I work, my dad lives next door and is retired.

Our last litter of collie pups went to wonderful new collie-loving homes in the UK, through an English collie rescue that we work closely with. These pups are all gone to collie-experienced homes, where they'll get to try their paws at all kinds of activities, like flyball, cani-cross, agility, obedience, you name it!

If these pup don't sell as working dogs at six months old, it's gonna be a helluva lot harder for a rescue to rehome them, when they've had no house-training or lead-training, and have not been socialised beyond that shed and the immediate vicinity of the owner's house.

boomerang

Absolutely nothing wrong with a working sheepdog doing what it was bred to do... :cool: Many collies are far happier and more fulfilled living the life of a working dog on a farm, than they would be if they had gone to pet homes. No doubt about it.

The problem as I see it, and in my experience, is that so many Irish working sheepdogs don't tend to be well looked after. Chained up most of the time, painful injuries such as fractures home-treated rather than paying the vet for a better outcome, fed scraps and cheap dog food, never neutered so pups are drowned, seizing up with arthritis and not knowing any extra creature comforts when they age ... It ain't pretty.

I'm with a rescue group and we often take in collie pups. They go to homes like mine. My sheepdog has a strong working drive (strong eye, strong nip-reflex, strong chasing instinct - all the hallmarks of a working dog) but she is not confident and can be quite ditzy - she'd have a herd of sheep scattered to the four corners of the globe - she's just not sensible or independent enough to make it as a working dog. But she gets pots of exercise with me off-lead (freshly shorn hayfields are her favourite) and we've done obedience and agility together.

Our last litter of collie pups went to wonderful new collie-loving homes in the UK, through an English collie rescue that we work closely with. These pups are all gone to collie-experienced homes, where they'll get to try their paws at all kinds of activities and will have appropriate outlets for their energy and drive.

If these pup don't sell as working dogs at six months old, it's gonna be a helluva lot harder for a rescue to rehome them, when they've had no house-training or lead-training, and have not been socialised beyond that shed and the immediate vicinity of the owner's house.

peasant

I'm glad to hear that your dogs are well treated and to hear about the good work of the rescue you mention.


But allow me to play devils' advocate on this one:

boomerang wrote: »

The problem as I see it, and in my experience, is that so many Irish working sheepdogs don't tend to be well looked after. Chained up for long hours, painful injuries such as fractures home-treated with splints rather than paying the vet for surgery and a better outcome, fed a mush of scraps and cheap dog food so their teeth rot in their head, never neutered so litter after litter of pups are drowned... It aint pretty.

The problem as I see it, and in my experience, is that so many Irish pet dogs don't tend to be well looked after. Left alone for long hours, locked up in gardens, bored to tears, creating a nuisance for themselves with the annoyed neighbours, ill trained, poorly socialised and kept in conditions / asked to perform functions that do not suit them, etc, pp

The list could go on for hours, but I think you get where I'm coming from.


The point of this thread (in my opinion) should be to help the OP with the current situation to the benefit of the dogs, give advice that helps the dogs (and the OP) where they are right now, instead of coming down on her like a ton of bricks from all sorts of angles, practically recommending confiscation and re-distribution of her dogs.