Protein - basics, during exercise & for recovery

bwardrop

Came across these during a search for some info on another topic.

Listened to the first one today in work (it counts as work ) and thought it might be of interest to some here.

The rest of the info on that site is pretty good too.

Enjoy!

TKD SC

Was actually going to start a thread on protein this morn for a query I had, so I might as well post it in here....

Per the article: "Well, I think if you ask most athletes, they’re going to talk about whey protein or soy protein or some protein supplement, but in reality, food sources like egg, milk, yogurt, cheese....For those people who don’t eat meat, you can get adequate protein in things like peanut butter and soy-based foods like a soy-burger, tofu, soy milk, and even vegetables that we eat, particularly beans like black beans or kidney beans or refried beans or garbanzo beans, all of which are a way to gain protein".

My query was really should I be taking a protein supplement / shake, and which ones would you recommend? I do a fair bit of exercise between martial arts, weights and running. I'm a vegi and wouldn't eat much / any soy or indeed much black / kidney beans so my main protein would prob come from cheese, eggs, yogurt. Was thinking the other day, maybe I should start taking one of these protein shakes after an exercise session? The article also mentions how excess protein taken in can turn to fat which wouldnt be good. I know a lot of people take these protein shakes after exercise but I really don't know anything about the different brands out there or if it is a bit gimmicky or what the main benefits are?

Thanks very much,

Simon

bwardrop

You are probably going to get conflicting advice to your question - some people are advocates of supplements and others are not.

I tend to fall into the 'not' category, but that is primarily because with most of the athletes I work with, I am actually not allowed to promote the use of any supplements. This comes down from the Irish Sports Council and the anti-doping regulations. There is simply to much of a risk of an athlete failing a drugs test because of a contaminated supplement, so we simply do not recommend their use. Even taking a vitamin supplement is regarded as risky - the all have to be cleared before use. www.eirpharm.com is a great resource for athletes who want to check whether their medications / some supplements are OK to take.

Anyway - back on topic. There is no reason why you should not be able to achieve your daily protein requirements through a well planned diet. None of the athletes I have worked with have any problems with their protein intake in this manner - however they are hard working full time athletes with a lot of support behind them.

For the rest of use - time, effort, money, knowledge etc may all influence the quality of our diets. In these cases, I really do not see the harm in taking a protein supplement. I would hazard that many people are probably taking in too much through their supplements and diet combined, which may not give them the best results. If you are concerned about this, there is no harm in halving the amount of supplement you take per serving etc.

Before this, I would suggest taking a look at the content and structure of your diet to see if it may be modified for the better. For example could you split you meals into smaller, more frequent high protein ones? You should get lots of acvice re: diet from previous posts and the stickies.

So, if you are not a drugs tested athlete and you feel you can't get enough through diet alone / your situation (e.g. work) prevents you from eating regularly - there is nothing wrong with a protein supplement.

TKD SC

Great, thanks very much for that bwardrop. Cheese & yogurt would be my main protein - on a daily basis (some meals I would def take in more protein than others). I've a decent enough diet but not eating meat I always feel I dont get as much protein as maybe I should. I beleive for a 90kg man, about 150grams per day is recommended (per the article you linked in), so I must workout what I actually do take in and reasses.

If I did go the supplement route, what brands of shakes / supplements are the popular / good ones and can you pick up in supermarket / health store?

Another quick pt, if I exercise before work in the morn, I usually get hungary by around 10.30 / 11, therefore maybe a protein shake would take of this as well as helping to replenish my body...

Thanks again

Simon

Roper

Simon,

Go out to Wicklow with a knife and no food. Commit to staying there for a week. Pretty soon the hunger will take over and you'll run down a deer and kill it. After you come home, you'll no longer be a veggie and although the incident will haunt you for life, your protein sourcing problem will be over.

Just trying to help.

rubadub

bwardrop wrote: »

I tend to fall into the 'not' category, but that is primarily because with most of the athletes I work with, I am actually not allowed to promote the use of any supplements. This comes down from the Irish Sports Council and the anti-doping regulations.

What is there definition of a supplement? I am always interested to hear what people consider supps. e.g. I would view whey, cheese, fruit juice as being similarly concentrated processed foods.

Roper

Roper wrote: »

Simon,

Go out to Wicklow with a knife and no food. Commit to staying there for a week. Pretty soon the hunger will take over and you'll run down a deer and kill it. After you come home, you'll no longer be a veggie and although the incident will haunt you for life, your protein sourcing problem will be over.

Just trying to help.

Someone doesn't get it.

bwardrop

rubadub wrote: »

What is there definition of a supplement? I am always interested to hear what people consider supps. e.g. I would view whey, cheese, fruit juice as being similarly concentrated processed foods.

Yeah, where to draw the line - that is a tough one alright. We do not recommend the use of things like:

- vitamin / mineral supplements, unless on the approved list. For example, Pharmaton is approved, whereas most of the other 'main' brands are not.

- protein / carbohydrate / amino acid / weight loss supplements or anything else that is obviously a supplement.

Basically the athletes' diet should consist of fruit / veg / dairy / meat / poultry / fish and avoid processed foods anyway.

There is plenty of research out there demonstrating that many (not all) supplements are either:

a) Deliberately contaminated by the manufacturer with (illegal / banned) anabolic compounds to improve their efficacy. This will not be reported on the labels!!

b) Contaminated unintentionally on the production line in a factory where several different products may be produced. I was at a conference a few years back where a case study was presented regrading an athlete who had failed a drugs test (nandralone, I think). Turns out the over the counter vitamin C supplement they were taking was contaminated on the production line.

So for an athlete, it is just too risky and they are made very aware of the risks. The anti-doping unit in the Irish Sports Council is considered one of the best. I have little sympathy for any athlete who gets a positive test these days - they all know the score, especially when it comes to medications. But that is another matter!

thirtyfoot

bwardrop wrote: »

So for an athlete, it is just too risky and they are made very aware of the risks. The anti-doping unit in the Irish Sports Council is considered one of the best. I have little sympathy for any athlete who gets a positive test these days - they all know the score, especially when it comes to medications. But that is another matter!

Slightly off topic but regarding Vitamin C, what would the Irish Sports Council suggest in the following very real world scenario:

Athlete has always used Vit C and have found before that when there were the mumblings of a cold that a couple of extra dosages of Vit C always got them back in a day or so. Now following ISC guidelines they recently stopped taking it but with a big qualifying competition less than a week away they can feel a cold coming on and they know (from experience as in this example the athlete is an elite who has for example lets say a multi Olympian and being on the full-time circuit for a decade) that a dosage of Vit C will have them right as rain for the competition and also not in contravention of WADA guidelines. Lets also throw in that they spent the winter in Canberra at the AIS and read some literature there that said Vit C is cool and the gang. Should they use Vit C or just OD on Kiwis and Oranges??

bwardrop

*Edit - I don't work directly for the sports council, so although I am answering the question above, I am not attempting to represent them!!

It is fairly straight forward really - athletes just use the eirpharm.com data base. You can search by product name or by ailment - if you look under "vitamin deficiency" you will get a list of what is permitted and what is not.

For Vitamin C you have a couple of choices, e.g.:

http://www.eirpharm.com/sports/medicine.php?med_id=957&ailment=Vitamin%20Mineral%20Or%20Nutritional%20Deficiency

Perhaps I didn't make it clear in my previous post. No one is suggesting that all medications or supplements are bad / dangerous - far from it. There are however, certain products that have passed stringent content / manufacturing tests and are deemed 'safe', which are listed by Eirpharm.com. Provided the athlete sticks to this list they should be fine.

Money Shot

It's funny how some elite athlethes don't seem to 'need' a lot of supplements, but it's the first port of call for most beginners these days.

bwardrop

Dedication and hard work will get you a lot further than anything in a tub!!

puntosporting

No offence intended here but its far easier for top athletes to maintain correct diets as they have coaches for diet etc!
The average joe goes about his 9-5 and tries to squeeze in whatever sport hes into in his spare time!
The likes of protein shakes are very usefull for many many people involved in sports and can be beneficial!
I think the stringent rules on supplements etc are OTT in the athletics world.
I understand you have to draw a line in the sand some where do!

bwardrop

puntosporting wrote: »

No offence intended here but its far easier for top athletes to maintain correct diets as they have coaches for diet etc!
The average joe goes about his 9-5 and tries to squeeze in whatever sport hes into in his spare time!
The likes of protein shakes are very usefull for many many people involved in sports and can be beneficial!
I think the stringent rules on supplements etc are OTT in the athletics world.
I understand you have to draw a line in the sand some where do!

I think if you re-read my previous posts you will see that I have already stated all of these points, bar the fact that the rules being OTT for athletes. The rules have to be strict to ensure that clean athletes don't get caught out by mistake. Even the tiniest amount of a banned substance can result in a positive doping test.