Limerick Northern Distributor Road Plan

ebowdia

Looks like the plan to build a road linking the Coonagh roundabout in Limerick to Moyross is going ahead.

http://www.limerick.ie/Transport/TenderforCoonaghKnockalisheenDistributorroad/Thefile,8962,en.pdf

I believe this is going to be part of the 'Limerick Northern Distributor Road' which will eventually run from the Coonagh roundabout out to the Dublin road somewhere. I haven't been able to find much info on this, does any one know what the proposals are? Where would the road pass/come out etc?

rliston

I think there are maps of the full proposed route on the clare county council website. I think it meets the Dublin road out by finnegans. I did a project on it in college last year so i should have maps somewhere, i'll try and stick them up later.

grenache

Should this not be on the Limerick City forum?

ebowdia

Should this be in the city forum, not sure. The road will mainly be in Limerick county, and also county Clare, as far as I know.

Thanks for the update rliston, if you have maps too that would be great.

Any idea for when this project is being planned? I assume we are still talking years away?

lukejr

I was looking for some information in relation to this and the Limerick City Council has some information posted on their website. It does look like this road is getting the go ahead.



PDF Drawing

Limerick City Council information including maps and reports.


I'm not sure why this thread is in the Limerick County section, as the road is in Co Clare and Limerick City.

Insect Overlord

Did the boundary extension happen before or after this thread was started?
It's hard to remember sometimes!

Feel free to start a new thread in either the Limerick City or the Clare forum if there's ever an official announcement about the proposed road.

Mc Love

Anyone else think this isnt a great idea if there is infrastructure there already built (tunnel/M7)

lukejr

The tunnel and southern ring road, does just that, it's a southern ring road in Limerick, not serving the north of the city.

My biggest concern is that the northern distributor road isn't a full ring road linking the north east of the city.

The north and northeast of Limerick City is extremely congested and the tunnel doesn't benefit this area directly. Traffic on the Corbally Road and over O'Dwyer Bridge onto Athlunkard Street at peak times, it's very busy. This road should improve access a bit, but not enough.

Ideally the Northern Distributor Road needs to extend east connecting the R464 and the R463 and maybe even allowing access to the north campus of UL and finally linking east of Castletroy/Annacotty.

Limerick is the only city in Ireland that can have a true ring road like London, Paris, etc without extensive tunneling. If Limerick has ambitions to grow as a major city in Ireland, which it should, we need to ensure that the infrastructure is there to support this growth in the future.

limklad

lukejr wrote: »

The tunnel and southern ring road, does just that, it's a southern ring road in Limerick, not serving the north of the city.

My biggest concern is that the northern distributor road isn't a full ring road linking the north east of the city.

The north and northeast of Limerick City is extremely congested and the tunnel doesn't benefit this area directly. Traffic on the Corbally Road and over O'Dwyer Bridge onto Athlunkard Street at peak times, it's very busy. This road should improve access a bit, but not enough.

Ideally the Northern Distributor Road needs to extend east connecting the R464 and the R463 and maybe even allowing access to the north campus of UL and finally linking east of Castletroy/Annacotty.

Limerick is the only city in Ireland that can have a true ring road like London, Paris, etc without extensive tunneling. If Limerick has ambitions to grow as a major city in Ireland, which it should, we need to ensure that the infrastructure is there to support this growth in the future.

It will only work as long as it has room to expand extra lanes and no houses or estates entrances be allowed to build on it.

phog

limklad wrote: »

It will only work as long as it has room to expand extra lanes and no houses or estates entrances be allowed to build on it.

Let's get a dual carriageway up and running first, we can worry about everything else later.

Liam Byrne

phog wrote: »

Let's get a dual carriageway up and running first, we can worry about everything else later.

Wrong approach.

Originally Childers Road was meant to be Limerick's southern ring road; anyone who's tried to navigate the nightmare that is the Retail Park will tell you how bad planning chokes a road, leading to the requirement for a new road.

phog

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Wrong approach.

Originally Childers Road was meant to be Limerick's southern ring road; anyone who's tried to navigate the nightmare that is the Retail Park will tell you how bad planning chokes a road, leading to the requirement for a new road.

Most of Childers road runs through a residental area, the majority of the remainder of the road is single carriage way and none of it is dual carriageway, there is only one section of it that has an entrance to a significant retail park that wasn't there prior to the road being opened as a "ring road". The parkway roundabout doesn't help the situation there either.

lukejr

A quick update on the road and the proposed route beyond Knockalisheen.

The road will be built in two phases, 1st phase to be completed in Q3 2013 and 2nd phase 2014/15.
Phase 1 – Coonagh to Knockalishen connecting Moyross (Limerick City Council)
Phase 2 – Knockalisheen to Annacotty, linking to N7 or M7 (Clare County Council)

Document summary of phase 2 of the road:
http://www.clarecoco.ie/roads-and-transport/news/limerick-northern-distributor-road-constraints-study-public-information-notice.html

phog

lukejr wrote: »

A quick update on the road and the proposed route beyond Knockalisheen.

The road will be built in two phases, 1st phase to be completed in Q3 2013 and 2nd phase 2014/15.
Phase 1 – Coonagh to Knockalishen connecting Moyross (Limerick City Council)
Phase 2 – Knockalisheen to Annacotty, linking to N7 or M7 (Clare County Council)

Document summary of phase 2 of the road:
http://www.clarecoco.ie/roads-and-transport/news/limerick-northern-distributor-road-constraints-study-public-information-notice.html

Great news.

This will need to be about a 3 lane motorway to take the traffic volumes, all avoiding the toll.

Osk

Dragging up a very old thread...

Looks like site clearance has started on this project in front of The Country Club.

A2LUE42

1st phase to be completed in Q3 2013 and 2nd phase 2014/15.. so a little behind schedule then.. Hopefully this is completed sooner rather than later.

Tefral

Osk wrote: »

Dragging up a very old thread...

Looks like site clearance has started on this project in front of The Country Club.

Spotted that myself yesterday.

phog

Osk wrote: »

Dragging up a very old thread...

Looks like site clearance has started on this project in front of The Country Club.

Is that just not non existing housing estate site clearance?

Cookiemunster

phog wrote: »

Is that just not non existing housing estate site clearance?

Construction of phase 1 is out to tender, with work due to start late the year and take around 18 months.

highlydebased

Whatever is going on they have cleared the entire ditch/hedge at that site on the Old Cratloe rd

topper75

I imagine Phase 1 will take some time. Not the most solid of land to operate on around there.

I hope we get to drive on it in our lifetimes!

zulutango

I thought it was killed off when the Limerick councillors voted against it a few months back?

Limerick Dude

zulutango wrote: »

I thought it was killed off when the Limerick councillors voted against it a few months back?

I believe that was Phase 2 of the scheme.

topper75

I think also that phase 1, apart from being a ringroad component, was also a Limerick City regeneration plan element. It is the key to de-isolating (if that is a word!) the back of the Moyross area.

Even if it goes no further, it makes great sense on its own. It will take pressure off Hassetts X and Ivans X, but will make Watch house X a little busier. They might look at some kind of mini roundabout for there in the future.

OfTheMarsWongs

zulutango wrote: »

I thought it was killed off when the Limerick councillors voted against it a few months back?

There was also an issue with flooding in Clonlara a few months back along the proposed route. Think I read they were looking to some further surveys re potential flooding.

Also it's not just Limerick Council involved. The Country Club is only a couple of fields away from the Clare border. From looking at the maps, a good deal of the proposed road is in Co. Clare.

phog

Osk wrote: »

Dragging up a very old thread...

Looks like site clearance has started on this project in front of The Country Club.

Was this just a false dawn? The site was tidied up and now it looks like all the machinery and workers have left the site?

topper75

I have no inside knowledge to offer, but my suspicion is that whilst there is doubt about a full ringroad scheme (Limerick have turned it down, Clare gave go ahead) then not even he phase 1 Coonagh-Knocklisheen is going ahead.

I don't see any Northern Ringroad starting while there is still a shortfall in Southern Ringroad tunnel revenues. Bizarrely the company running it was guaranteed a minimum throughput and revenue, a minimum that was based on boomtime traffic levels.

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

I have no inside knowledge to offer, but my suspicion is that whilst there is doubt about a full ringroad scheme (Limerick have turned it down, Clare gave go ahead) then not even he phase 1 Coonagh-Knocklisheen is going ahead.

I don't see any Northern Ringroad starting while there is still a shortfall in Southern Ringroad tunnel revenues. Bizarrely the company running it was guaranteed a minimum throughput and revenue, a minimum that was based on boomtime traffic levels.

Phase 1 is about opening up Moyross, not giving the city a Northern bypass. It's part of the regeneration plan and is still out to tender for constrction. The tender isn't due to be awarded until Q4.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiZt-PorvrOAhUBDCwKHUvYAAMQFghFMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcif.ie%2Fimages%2Fpdfs%2FInfrastructure-Projects.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFBrLi6VdhAYrtR-V-vc-INcmc8Wg
€45m - Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road
30th March 2016: It is understood that tenders for the advanced groundworks will be sought in Q3 2016 for the Coonagh-Knockalisheen Distributor Road.
Tenders for the main contract of this project will be sought in Q4 2016.

LimerickCity

The area which has been cleaned up had contained the leftovers from the building works of the housing estate Shannonvale. It contained bricks, wood and general site wastage and has not been touched for years. It was generally an eyesore so just cleaning that up is good for the area.

Came across this. Great news if you are a badger.

http://www.rod.ie/coonagh-knockalisheen/

Brennans Row

It’s back on the table again and the Council states to have addressed the issues regarding the risks of flooding.

Adverts in the Leader and Post.

The road will be designed to avoid adverse flood impact.

A Strategic Flood Risk Assessment and a Flood Risk Justification Test have been carried out and were passed.

See Limerick Council.

mart 23

Hi
Hopefully these new plans get the go ahead This road is long overdue. I noticed there appears to be no spur road to Moyross Maybe thats a mistake on the map.
This road should help reduce traffic on the corbally road.

pigtown

I'm torn on this road. On the one hand something needs to be done to relieve traffic around the Corbally area and at Plassey too, but on the other hand it's just going to lead to more car-based development on the north side of the city which isn't good for the environment or the people stuck in their cars. I wonder could the surrounding lands have a strict anti-development zoning to ensure this doesn't happen?

Cookiemunster

mart 23 wrote: »

Hi
Hopefully these new plans get the go ahead This road is long overdue. I noticed there appears to be no spur road to Moyross Maybe thats a mistake on the map.
This road should help reduce traffic on the corbally road.

I'd say it's just a map of the whole scheme. Funding of €40m has already been secured for the Coonagh to Knockalisheen section and it has been put out to tender.

mart 23

pigtown wrote: »

I'm torn on this road. On the one hand something needs to be done to relieve traffic around the Corbally area and at Plassey too, but on the other hand it's just going to lead to more car-based development on the north side of the city which isn't good for the environment or the people stuck in their cars. I wonder could the surrounding lands have a strict anti-development zoning to ensure this doesn't happen?

I doubt very much that would happen . The purpose of roads like this is to create economic development for the area . 150 million Euro is a lot of money to spend just only to bring cars from A to B

pigtown

Yeah you're probably right. I'd argue that €150 million could be a lot better spent on a public transport solution to the problem, and there are plenty other areas of the city where additional economic development could be facilitated.

elastico

Will this encourage people travelling from the Clare side towards Dublin to avoid the tunnel toll?

lukejr

elastico wrote: »

Will this encourage people travelling from the Clare side towards Dublin to avoid the tunnel toll?

There will always be some who'll avoid it, but
most who want to get past quickly won't. This road is over due and will be busy at peak times. Development can't be halted over fear of toll dodgers.

pigtown

lukejr wrote: »

There will always be some who'll avoid it, but
most who want to get past quickly won't. This road is over due and will be busy at peak times. Development can't be halted over fear of toll dodgers.

No, but it can be halted on ideological grounds.We should as a city be directing future development towards the railway lines so that a density can be built up and an urban rail service can be introduced. This new road will just encourage more people to drive. As they say, more roads=more traffic

chicorytip

pigtown wrote:

I'm torn on this road. On the one hand something needs to be done to relieve traffic around the Corbally area and at Plassey too, but on the other hand it's just going to lead to more car-based development on the north side of the city which isn't good for the environment or the people stuck in their cars. I wonder could the surrounding lands have a strict anti-development zoning to ensure this doesn't happen?

If more parents were to encourage their children to either walk or cycle to school, early morning and late afternoon traffic congestion in areas such as Corbally could be significantly alleviated.

phog

This ring road is well overdue.

If we want to reduce traffic using the city then we have to give them the option to drive around it.

apc

Without a link road to the groody roundabout will the UL campus not get a huge increase in through traffic from people using the road to access Castletroy/Groody? Or will access be limited to the North campus? Couldn't find anything specific in the plans

Stellaluna

elastico wrote: »

Will this encourage people travelling from the Clare side towards Dublin to avoid the tunnel toll?

If I'm heading to Dublin/Belfast from the Clare side I generally go O'Brien's bridge-Birdhill-M7 anyway. Going via the tunnel is a long way round from say Meelick/Ardnacrusha/Parteen. Besides, once I've been tanned by the M7, the M50 and the M1 toll I don't feel the need to be charitable and go through the tunnel as well.

pigtown

phog wrote: »

This ring road is well overdue.

If we want to reduce traffic using the city then we have to give them the option to drive around it.

They already have that option though. If we want to reduce the traffic within the city and its suburbs then we have to give the option of public transport. This road will just encourage more suburban housing and employment. More development land is not needed here and neither is a bypass. Something has to be done to solve the local traffic problems but I on't think this is the right way.

phog

pigtown wrote: »

They already have that option though. If we want to reduce the traffic within the city and its suburbs then we have to give the option of public transport. This road will just encourage more suburban housing and employment. More development land is not needed here and neither is a bypass. Something has to be done to solve the local traffic problems but I on't think this is the right way.

The traffic count has already proved it's required, the ring road would give greater flexibility and will definitely ease the traffic using the city as a thoroughfare.

The design of the current by pass somewhat failed the city, no access to North bound traffic at the Limerick Inn, no access to Shannon/Galway from Rathbane junction. No access onto N20 near Crescent Shopping centre.

There's certainly a need for this bypass but I'd also welcome investment in public transport.

pigtown

I'm not entirely familiar with all of those junctions but it'd be cheaper to fix them than build this road. And if we must facilitate more suburban sprawl then why is there absolutely nothing to the east of the M20? This land is already served by a very expensive motorway, is next to a railway line, and is easily developed greenfield land. Wouldn't this be a more logical place to build?

Through-traffic can be discouraged with a redesign of the city centre streets.

chicorytip

pigtown wrote:

They already have that option though. If we want to reduce the traffic within the city and its suburbs then we have to give the option of public transport. This road will just encourage more suburban housing and employment. More development land is not needed here and neither is a bypass. Something has to be done to solve the local traffic problems but I on't think this is the right way.

People who can afford to buy and run cars will invariably choose to use them even when there are reliable public transport alternatives available.

Cookiemunster

phog wrote: »

The design of the current by pass somewhat failed the city, no access to North bound traffic at the Limerick Inn, no access to Shannon/Galway from Rathbane junction. No access onto N20 near Crescent Shopping centre.

Northbound traffic from the Limerick Inn can access the tunnel via the Clonmacken Roundabout.
There can't be a junction on the N20 at the Cresent SC. There are two junctions that are just over 3 kms apart either side of it servicing the more important M20 and N69 roads.
And there is access to/from Shannon/Galway to the Rathbane junction. There's no exit from the Dublin direction (which doesn't really matter because of the previous junction) or the Cork direction.

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not entirely familiar with all of those junctions but it'd be cheaper to fix them than build this road. And if we must facilitate more suburban sprawl then why is there absolutely nothing to the east of the M20? This land is already served by a very expensive motorway, is next to a railway line, and is easily developed greenfield land. Wouldn't this be a more logical place to build?

Through-traffic can be discouraged with a redesign of the city centre streets.

Motorways are not meant to be used as commuter roads. There a reason that development is banned along their lengths. It also would cost 10s of millions to upgrade the junctions mentions. It wouldn't be as cheap as you think.

kilburn

Agree on rail line focus and cycling but to be fair would you let your child cycle to scoil ide in Corbally I would not its a death trap.

Try crossing at the pedestrian crossing at Grove island between 8am to 9am and 5pm to 6pm it's a miracle no one has been killed clare bound traffic use the ghost island hatched area as a third Lane

phog

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not entirely familiar with all of those junctions but it'd be cheaper to fix them than build this road. And if we must facilitate more suburban sprawl then why is there absolutely nothing to the east of the M20? This land is already served by a very expensive motorway, is next to a railway line, and is easily developed greenfield land. Wouldn't this be a more logical place to build?

Through-traffic can be discouraged with a redesign of the city centre streets.

You're putting the cart before the horse by redesigning the city street without providing a circular route which is the purpose of this ring road.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Northbound traffic from the Limerick Inn can access the tunnel via the Clonmacken Roundabout.

But that's not the junction I spoke of - there is no access at the Limerick Inn junction unless you're heading towards Shannon/Galway

There can't be a junction on the N20 at the Cresent SC. There are two junctions that are just over 3 kms apart either side of it servicing the more important M20 and N69 roads.

There are junctions on the M50 much closer than 3Kms

The entry lane from J10 Northbound runs into the exit lane for J9 (N7 exit).

And there is access to/from Shannon/Galway to the Rathbane junction. There's no exit from the Dublin direction (which doesn't really matter because of the previous junction) or the Cork direction.

Sorry, that's correct, I knew it was a restricted junction. In my opinion it does matter though as it sends additional traffic in the Tipperary, Ballinacurra and Dock Roads

pigtown

chicorytip wrote: »

People who can afford to buy and run cars will invariably choose to use them even when there are reliable public transport alternatives available.

I don't think the evidence of other cities bears this out. If the public transport is reliable and affordable the it will be used.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Northbound traffic from the Limerick Inn can access the tunnel via the Clonmacken Roundabout.
There can't be a junction on the N20 at the Cresent SC. There are two junctions that are just over 3 kms apart either side of it servicing the more important M20 and N69 roads.
And there is access to/from Shannon/Galway to the Rathbane junction. There's no exit from the Dublin direction (which doesn't really matter because of the previous junction) or the Cork direction.



Motorways are not meant to be used as commuter roads. There a reason that development is banned along their lengths. It also would cost 10s of millions to upgrade the junctions mentions. It wouldn't be as cheap as you think.

That's true enough but urban motorways inevitably serve as commuter routes. I don't know about the cost of junction upgrades but they couldn't cost all that much in comparison. The land is green field and the overbridges are already there.

kilburn wrote: »

Agree on rail line focus and cycling but to be fair would you let your child cycle to scoil ide in Corbally I would not its a death trap.

Try crossing at the pedestrian crossing at Grove island between 8am to 9am and 5pm to 6pm it's a miracle no one has been killed clare bound traffic use the ghost island hatched area as a third Lane

Yeah at the moment it's not suitable but new facilities can be provided to make it so.

I'm just trying to stimulate a conversation about whether a road is the right solution to the various issues. All over the world we see a push away from car-centric development, both for quality of life and also emissions targets. As far as I can see though no one is really talking about it in Limerick bar the local opposition groups who are more concerned about the specific route rather than the concept itself (and that's fair enough on their behalf).

Limerick Chamber and the council both have this project near the top of their list of priorities but why is nobody looking at a map of Limerick, at its three rail lines which could potentially transform how people move and live in the city? If these bodies are serious about their ambitions to make Limerick a serious competitor for investment and business then they are going to have to address this issue. Attracting new international talent to the city and retaining the thousands of graduates that leave college every year will be all the more difficult if people have no choice but to pay for a car.

The Cork-Midleton rail line was only reopened as a result of decades of planning and directing development along the line to make it viable.

zulutango

If we spent the same amount of money on cycling and public transport infrastructure would that eliminate the traffic problems that are being used to justify the Northern Distributor Road?

And even if we chose not to spend the money on cycling or public transport infrastructure, could we alleviate the traffic problems by some other means than building such an expensive road?

Has a cost-benefit analysis been done on the project?