Recent Civil Service AO/Third Sec Comp

Shatner

Results are out. Missed out Stage 2 of Third Sec comp by 8 places on the order of merit - gutted! Did better on the AO (ICT). Must have been the damned Job Analysis that sank me.

n.catenthusiast

I'm a bit confused. I didn't go for third sec, but I did go for both AO in the Revenue and Civil Service. The email I got just detailed my position for AO in Revenue, with no mention of any poisiton in the CS.

has anyone else received anything similar/completely different?



oh hang on, I just got a second email ten minutes later with the info!

jayteecork

I just got the messages as well.

How do you know you missed out?
Where does it state the cut off point for the Order of Merit?

I'm curious how many people applied for the 3rd secertary/AO.

I got my results but not sure how good they are. It says I'm on the order of merit but my place is in 3 figures.

Tan Princess

I got 392 on the AO exam but they didn't say how many go onto the next stage. For the 3rd sec they said 190 will the AO be similar or less?

pvt.joker

Not to worry OP. Chances are there won't be any appointments made anyway with all the cutbacks and recruitment freezes that have been announced.

Ste.phen

pvt.joker wrote: »

Not to worry OP. Chances are there won't be any appointments made anyway with all the cutbacks and recruitment freezes that have been announced.

he's hardly gonna worry less over that, is he?

pvt.joker

Igy wrote: »

he's hardly gonna worry less over that, is he?

well it might lessen the blow for him anyway

jayteecork

Got 4 results, all to do with AO. My scores range from 159 to a s hite 750!
How many sat the test altogether? Do those order of merit places reflect your region or the whole of Ireland?
I have a degree in Mathematics so I aced the numerical, did well enough in Verbal but say I f ucked up the job simulation.

Pissed off a bit as I got 12th in the order of merit in Clerical officer.
Which wasn't much good to me because they took so long contacting me for an interview I was back in college.

Nothing about 3rd sec for me at all.

n.catenthusiast

Tan Princess wrote: »

I got 392 on the AO exam but they didn't say how many go onto the next stage. For the 3rd sec they said 190 will the AO be similar or less?

Wha? I got position 392 on the AO too! Is that for revenue or general civil service entry?

very confudling.....

Slartibartfast

That's mad I got told I was 392 as well for the AO. Just for the civil service one. We couldn't all be 392.

jayteecork

n.catenthusiast wrote: »

Wha? I got position 392 on the AO too! Is that for revenue or general civil service entry?

very confudling.....

I got places on the order of merit for four different AO thingies.

pvt.joker

eh....I got 392 too...

This is a mistake surely?

Shatner

I'm new to this but as far as I know the Maths is pass/fail i.e. you need to get X amount of them correct to pass but the results do not affect your place on the order of merit (so getting them all right is not much benefit). This info is based on what someone working in the CS told me so it may be wrong (and my apologies if it is).

So it's the Verbal and the Job Analysis combined that give you the ranking.

I think there were 5000+ people doing the exam this time round between the Revenue/IT/Third Sec comps with people doing different combinations of tests.

jayteecork

Shatner wrote: »

I'm new to this but as far as I know the Maths is pass/fail i.e. you need to get X amount of them correct to pass but the results do not affect your place on the order of merit (so getting them all right is not much benefit). This info is based on what someone working in the CS told me so it may be wrong (and my apologies if it is).

So it's the Verbal and the Job Analysis combined that give you the ranking.

I think there were 5000+ people doing the exam this time round between the Revenue/IT/Third Sec comps with people doing different combinations of tests.

Man that sucks.
I was banking on my numerical ability to bump my score.

Tan Princess

n.catenthusiast wrote: »

Wha? I got position 392 on the AO too! Is that for revenue or general civil service entry?

very confudling.....

Weird. Mine was just for civil service I didn't do the revenue one.

JonThom

I also got 392 on the AO exam. What's with that?

Esel

Numerical test - you must hit pass mark. Actual score is not used to determine final marks. Apparently, it's an anti-discrimination measure, as males score better on this test than females (in general).

Re: 392. Could be that you all got the same final score.

elmyra

I got 333 in AO but no email as yet about 3rd Sec.

I suspect if people get identical marks, which is entirely possible in standardised testing, then you might all be placed on 392 but depending on how many people are on 392 there might be no 393, 394, 295 and the person placed after you might be four hundred and something if you get what I mean. Also, I might be entirely wrong.

jayteecork

I can't see how my order of merit can range from 159 to 750 after doing the same test.

Maybe my numerical were taken into account for some of them?

I defo got 100% in that. piss of cake for me.

Shatner

But you would have done different job analysis exams for each post.

jayteecork

I did 2 job simulation. AO and 3rd sec. AO contained about 50% the same questions as 3rd sec, which we did first.

I haven't heard anything about my 3rd sec performance, but to be honest, I don't think I'd be suited to the post.

Cadet?

Well I'm pissed off.....Missed out on Thirdsec by about 20 places- which is the one I really wanted. Anyone know whether much people turn down their places in the second round and maybe I could sneak in?

Came around 160 in AO- good enough to be called for interview?

n.catenthusiast

elmyra wrote: »

I got 333 in AO but no email as yet about 3rd Sec.

I suspect if people get identical marks, which is entirely possible in standardised testing, then you might all be placed on 392 but depending on how many people are on 392 there might be no 393, 394, 295 and the person placed after you might be four hundred and something if you get what I mean. Also, I might be entirely wrong.

I was thinking the same thing, but it would be pretty coincidental if four of us in that situation alll happened to post on boards at the same time. I reckoin there's a fair few 392'ers (as we shall now be known as) out there, just as lost and confused as we are.

No doubt there's some sort of twisted logic behind this, but i've yet to suss it out.

Johnny Utah

Very vague message from publicjobs.


I applied for both AO in Rev and 3rd Sec, but they didn't send any results regarding the 3rd Secretary.


Got placed 221 for AO in Rev Commissioners. Is this good or bad?

Also, I thought they were only calling 200 for interview, but the message I got on publicjobs said further stages conducted by Revenue.

notlongleft

i came 250's in the AO for Revenue - i came in the top 100 the last time and heard nothing at all so its pretty ****!!!!

quad_red

This was my third time doing these exams.

First time did way better in AO than 3rd sec but didn't get either.

Second time did way better in 3rd sec and got called to the 2nd stage.

This time did much better in the AO than 3rd sec. May get called for AO to compete for non existent jobs.

I think the entire process in bunkum to be honest. And it's the last time I'll be bothered with it!

jayteecork

Still heard nothing from 3rd Sec.

F uck it. I'll look elsewhere.

5800 people going for about 10 jobs.

Naw Kler Meh

I got 1021 in order of Merit for AO :eek:
Why don't they just say 'better luck next time' rather than bothering to say they will be in touch!

pretty*monster

Accoring to the emails I got place 228 for third secretary and place 3 for AO.
Considering the tests were almost identical I don't understand how this can possibly right.

jayteecork

pretty*monster wrote: »

Accoring to the emails I got place 228 for third secretary and place 3 for AO.
Considering the tests were almost identical I don't understand how this can possibly right.

congrats on place 3.

Some people might have just done the 3rd Sec and not AO maybe?

pretty*monster

jayteecork wrote: »

congrats on place 3.

Thanks. Probably no one will believe that I took the exam with a hangover.

jayteecork wrote: »

Some people might have just done the 3rd Sec and not AO maybe?

Yeah, but presumably that would mean that the standard of people just taking the third secretary exam is an awful lot higher...

Darzinho

How do we know that 5800 went for the 3rd Sec posts?

jayteecork

Darzinho wrote: »

How do we know that 5800 went for the 3rd Sec posts?

Was in another thread on this forum.

Someone emailed publicjobs and asked them.

litup

pretty*monster wrote: »

Accoring to the emails I got place 228 for third secretary and place 3 for AO.
Considering the tests were almost identical I don't understand how this can possibly right.

Its pretty weird alright, but I reckon its down to to job simulation. The answers in the AO job simulation might not score as highly as the same answer in the 3rd Sec and vice versa, if you know what I mean.

I got placed 3rd for Revenue, 10th to AO and 60th for Third Sec. Not quite as big a gap as you but I did change a couple of answers in my job simulation for the two different roles.

S12

Any one know how many get called to stage 2 for AO?

jayteecork

S12 wrote: »

Any one know how many get called to stage 2 for AO?

Probably about 5 given the finance minister's stance on the civil service right now

Still received nothing at all about third secetary.

gunsofbrixton

Got sent a result saying i failed for the next stage of the 3rd Sec but how you people seing where you got placed and i also did the other exams for AO Revenue and AO general my results aren't being diplayed for that any ideas

jayteecork

Well I'm the opposite - I got the results for AO but not 3rd Sec.

Maybe the civil service strike is affecting the timing of the results being released?

alton

Anyone been through stage 2 for third sec and got any tips?

Esel

jayteecork wrote: »

Well I'm the opposite - I got the results for AO but not 3rd Sec.

Maybe the civil service strike is affecting the timing of the results being released?

What strike? I haven't heard anything about one.

Euro_Kraut

esel wrote: »

What strike? I haven't heard anything about one.

Its in the north: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7508659.stm

Wrong Ireland;)

Wouldn't want to confuse the two at the Third Sec interview!

jayteecork

Pretty sure there something going on with the civil service here, something about the finance minster freezing pay increased for 3 years?

tricky@

jayteecork wrote: »

Pretty sure there something going on with the civil service here, something about the finance minster freezing pay increased for 3 years?

Brian Lenihan has instructed all govt departments (with the exception of health and education) to cut their payroll bill by 3%. It is up to each department to implement this,e.g by a reduction in overtime etc. No formal pay freeze or recruitment freeze has been announced as of yet. Pay for all general civil service grades will increase by 2.5% from 1st September under the last of the current phase of Towards 2016, and the Social Partners are currently in talks for the next phase of that, with all the unions insisting that they will not accept a pay freeze.

jayteecork

tricky@ wrote: »

Brian Lenihan has instructed all govt departments (with the exception of health and education) to cut their payroll bill by 3%. It is up to each department to implement this,e.g by a reduction in overtime etc. No formal pay freeze or recruitment freeze has been announced as of yet. Pay for all general civil service grades will increase by 2.5% from 1st September under the last of the current phase of Towards 2016, and the Social Partners are currently in talks for the next phase of that, with all the unions insisting that they will not accept a pay freeze.

Thanks.

Just goes to show how much I know

Esel

How you transmogrified that into a strike, I'll never understand.

RoseBlossom

gunsofbrixton wrote: »

Got sent a result saying i failed for the next stage of the 3rd Sec but how you people seing where you got placed and i also did the other exams for AO Revenue and AO general my results aren't being diplayed for that any ideas

Gunsofbrixton, I'd hazard a guess you might not have reached the pass mark in one of the sections. That way you wouldn't be placed anywhere, you would just be excluded from the order of merit. In a couple of weeks you should get a letter explaining how you did in more depth.

It is also correct that the numerical reasoning is only pass/fail and that you are ranked on your verbal and job simulation results (your results letter will tell you this).

In terms of people wondering whether they will be called for second stage AO, I heard from someone who did the last round, placed between 100-150 that they weren't called to Stage 2 before the new campaign started. However, the last AO "order of merit" only ran for a year before this new competition was announced so if this one lasts two years they could well go higher. With Third Sec they bring all 190 or so immediately to the next round and after all the rounds they have one final panel.

With AO they bring batches of say 30 or so at a time to the next round with the interview and then have successive panels. So one AO panel could be finalised in the next two months and run for a few months, then they'll interview the next batch etc.

The large disparity in placement numbers would come down to something as simple as numbers applying for one position over others - so usually people might score higher on Revenue AO than on General AO because Revenue requires particular qualifications which fewer people have. I've been told that in the job simulation the scoring given to different answers can differ from job-to-job as the qualities needed for Third Sec would not necessarily - in all cases - be the same as for AO. Also, as someone mentioned above, if 50 people are placed at 400 and your score was one point lower, you could be at 450 rather than 401.

I would be inclined to say Third Sec is more popular among graduates than AO and that's why many people might place considerably lower on that panel than on AO, rather than believing the people going for AO are less able. I'd say for every person who tells me they're going for AO I know a multiple who are going for Third Sec, and all would be bright with great qualifications.

Euro_Kraut

RoseBlossom wrote: »

In terms of people wondering whether they will be called for second stage AO, I heard from someone who did the last round, placed between 100-150 that they weren't called to Stage 2 before the new campaign started.

Interesting. I placed in the low 70's in this competition. Reckon I am touch and go to get a call up. Before than I have the interview for Third sec in late July which should be good practice for a potential AO interview.

They mentioned in the letter that a decision on the panel size would not be made until later August.


It is puzzling that the interest in the AO is such much less than Third sec. A third sec is effectively just an AO in the DFA. I know there is a prestige element the the DFA, I wonder does Administrative Officer just not sound as cool Junior Diplomat?

RoseBlossom

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Interesting. I placed in the low 70's in this competition. Reckon I am touch and go to get a call up. Before than I have the interview for Third sec in late July which should be good practice for a potential AO interview.

They mentioned in the letter that a decision on the panel size would not be made until later August.

It is puzzling that the interest in the AO is such much less than Third sec. A third sec is effectively just an AO in the DFA. I know there is a prestige element the the DFA, I wonder does Administrative Officer just not sound as cool Junior Diplomat?

I'd say you'd get a call if you're in the 70s, it won't be for a good few months though. They will probably call up to say 30/40 (ask them in a few days - they might tell you) for the second stage of the AO comp, then create a panel and use it up. Not everyone who gets interviewed will get on the panel. Some people will not "meet the required standard" so the panel will be shorter than the number called for interview. When they are approaching the end of this panel they will call more people for interview and so on. Each panel will last a couple of months unless recruitment really slows down.

I've been told by friends who are through to the next stage for Third Sec that it's only the usual "second stage" (i.e. group and written exercise) rather than "interview" that's coming up at the end of the month. Have you been told differently? Usually the interviews follow a couple of weeks after the group/written exercise, so you could be looking at late August for a Third Sec interview.

There are differences between the work of AO and Third Sec too, even though it is paid the same - the duties of an AO are generally more policy-focussed than that of a Third Sec because in most Departments there are EOs and HEOs responsible for the non-policy work. In DFA there are quite few of these grades so Third Secs have a broader range of non-policy related duties. Which role a person prefers is up to themselves.

Esel

Afaik, the panel from which appointments will be made is usually one third of those called to interview.

jayteecork

Guess right now with the economy the way it is people see the civil service as a secure job, hence the strong competition.

I knew my number was up when I heard numerical ability wouldn't be counted toward your overall grade. Having a degree in maths I probably scored 100%. Fairly annoyed tbh, I don't think that's a valid argument not counting it because men score higher than women on average.

Euro_Kraut

RoseBlossom wrote: »

I've been told by friends who are through to the next stage for Third Sec that it's only the usual "second stage" (i.e. group and written exercise) rather than "interview" that's coming up at the end of the month. Have you been told differently? Usually the interviews follow a couple of weeks after the group/written exercise, so you could be looking at late August for a Third Sec interview.

No, you are right it is a Group/Written exercise stage. I was just being lazy in calling it an interview. Point taken about the role of the AO vs Third Sec. I just reckon the AO job is undervalued by Graduates relative to the Third Sec.

Just wondering, formal appropriate for stage 2?