Stephen King is a white supremacist... [CONTAINS SPOILERS]

AlexBM

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

pirelli

paradoy about rodney and stephen king *deleted*

* edit *

Stephen King might have some condencension towards non whites, A white supremacist might be too strong a word,

AlexBm posted this and I have to say he won me over. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

I think King definetly has some magic in his work that while not racist, has an emotional quality to it that is similar to when the during the great World War one , where dug in at the trenches in the Battle of the Somme where the allies faced off the germans, instead of killing each other on christmas day , they celebrated and even played football together. A myth perhaps, but it has that emotion that people like.

There is that magic touch in Kings work and whether the stock character "magic negro" means that it is racist or not is worthy of a discussion. It might require some arts students with serious degrees to figure it out.

LINK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

gogo

AlexBM wrote: »

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

Start a discussion yourself and see where it goes by all means, posting random statements to get a reaction is pointless. If you have an opinion on this topic go ahead and tell us, but remember it's the literature forum not who's a racist forum, so you might want to take it elsewhere, or keep it within the scope of his books.

AlexBM

gogo wrote: »

Start a discussion yourself and see where it goes by all means, posting random statements to get a reaction is pointless. If you have an opinion on this topic go ahead and tell us, but remember it's the literature forum not who's a racist forum, so you might want to take it elsewhere, or keep it within the scope of his books.

I'm not posting a random statement to get a reaction. I'm looking to see what others' opinions are. This was put to me by a friend, and I'd never thought of it before, hence I'm posting it here to see if others have.

ixoy

On what basis did he posit this? There's strong black characters in 'The Dark Tower' or 'Dolores Claiborne' and elsewhere.

gogo

If you have never thought about it before and seem (so far)to have no opinion on it - therefore it is a random statement.
Your use of the word discuss would suggest a debate on it, which again as you have no opinion on it seems pretty pointless to post it at all.
Or are you waiting for someone to take the bait and then dazzel us with your brillance, there is a debate forum if you want to take it there, although they too like there posters to have an opinion.

Say hello/goodbye to Lolth for me if he comes a calling to you...
Again this is a literature forum..read any good books lately:cool:

AlexBM

gogo wrote: »

If you have never thought about it before and seem (so far)to have no opinion on it - therefore it is a random statement.
Your use of the word discuss would suggest a debate on it, which again as you have no opinion on it seems pretty pointless to post it at all.
Or are you waiting for someone to take the bait and then dazzel us with your brillance, there is a debate forum if you want to take it there, although they too like there posters to have an opinion.

Say hello/goodbye to Lolth for me if he comes a calling to you...
Again this is a literature forum..read any good books lately:cool:

I have no idea why there is such animosity in your statements towards me. If you have a problem with something I say, I suggest you use the report button, rather than verbally attacking me, and name-dropping moderators. There's no need for comments such as 'dazzel us all with your brillance'. I don't see why it's pointless to post if I don't have a strong opinion on it. I'm looking to find out more - which is why I'm asking. I do actually have an opinion, but don't know enough about his work. Maybe my choice of wording isn't quite to your taste, but again, I don't see why you need to make this animosity-filled rant.

ixoy wrote: »

On what basis did he posit this? There's strong black characters in 'The Dark Tower' or 'Dolores Claiborne' and elsewhere.

He mentioned Rose Madder, which I've never read, and The Stand - Randall Flagg, I think he was referring to in particular, and Mother Abagail, as being a bit stereotypical. 'Old folk wisdom imparted by the old black woman', I believe was the term he actually used. He referred to The Green Mile too, in the simpleton-like persona of the supposed murderer. I haven't read this either, so I don't quite know exactly what that means. I haven't read enough of his work at this stage.

jaffa20

My favourite author. where did your friend get this idea from?

AlexBM

jaffa20 wrote: »

My favourite author. where did your friend get this idea from?

As above, from the few books he's read. I believe a friend of his actually said it to him. I'm working my way around to reading his stuff slowly but surely. I'm nearly finished The Stand now.:)

Anyway, he mentioned Rose Madder, The Stand and The Green Mile in particular. I thought there might have been a theory about it somewhere that I hadn't heard of - a bit like the Enid Blyton is racist thing - but there doesn't seem to be, so far anyway.

gogo

I honestly have no animosity toward you what so ever. Do I think you are overstepping the mark asking people to discuss whether someone is racist or not - yes, yes I do, especially when you yourself are sitting on the fence.

You started a thread which you can't contribute to, seems odd to me, but good luck with it...see no animosity here.

Red Hand

It-one of the main characters in that is black. Also, have you thought about the fact that many of his stories are set in his native Maine which has a pretty small black population?

AlexBM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

It-one of the main characters in that is black. Also, have you thought about the fact that many of his stories are set in his native Maine which has a pretty small black population?

I did consider that, actually...AFAIK, he was born and brought up there. Also, I read It a while ago, so I can't quite remember, but

doesn't that guy die in the library?

I'm not sure if that's significant or not, but it's interesting.

AlexBM

gogo wrote: »

I honestly have no animosity toward you what so ever. Do I think you are overstepping the mark asking people to discuss whether someone is racist or not - yes, yes I do, especially when you yourself are sitting on the fence.

You started a thread which you can't contribute to, seems odd to me, but good luck with it...see no animosity here.

If you think I'm overstepping the mark, that's fine, no problems, but there was no need for the comments you made which I've already referred to.

Red Hand

AlexBM wrote: »

I did consider that, actually...AFAIK, he was born and brought up there. Also, I read It a while ago, so I can't quite remember, but

doesn't that guy die in the library?

I'm not sure if that's significant or not, but it's interesting.

I think he is brutally injured but I think he survives...I've have to Wiki it to be sure.

If I was a writer in Ireland and didn't have a Polish person or Afrian immigrant as a character in my novel, would you consider me racist? I mean, I would be disregarding 10% of the people in Ireland, right?

Or would I write about what I know?

gogo

AlexBM wrote: »

If you think I'm overstepping the mark, that's fine, no problems, but there was no need for the comments you made which I've already referred to.

Oh dear god, you have your discussion ... run with it..please.:rolleyes:

biko

AlexBM wrote: »

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

It is common internet forum courtesy to back up your statements before making wild and sensationalistic accusations.

Also you're wrong.

AlexBM

biko wrote: »

It is common internet forum courtesy to back up your statements before making wild and sensationalistic accusations.

Also you're wrong.

Okay, I should have worded it differently.

AlexBM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

I think he is brutally injured but I think he survives...I've have to Wiki it to be sure.

If I was a writer in Ireland and didn't have a Polish person or Afrian immigrant as a character in my novel, would you consider me racist? I mean, I would be disregarding 10% of the people in Ireland, right?

Or would I write about what I know?

I would imagine you'd write about what you know, but if you had a Polish/African person as a villain/simpleton several times, then I suppose it could be called into question. More of a stereotype rather than a racist streak, maybe.

AlexBM

gogo wrote: »

Oh dear god, you have your discussion ... run with it..please.:rolleyes:

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do.

estebancambias

I think he hates white people because in stand by me, a white kid is dead, and the characher of River Phoenix is murdered.

Also in thinner, a host of white charachters die. He even depicts the white man as a crazed lunatic who would kill his wife in order for his survival.

Tar.Aldarion

No, he doesn't seem racist from his writing.

Stephen King, a white supremacist?! Your having a laugh.

Kold

Worst thread ever.

Chinafoot

AlexBM wrote: »

Okay, I should have worded it differently.

Indeed, you should have added the word "because" and then you should have added a lot more words to give some background to the statement you are making.


I agree with Kold.

*melanie*

AlexBM wrote: »

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

hi, around 15 years ago,when things started to get very pc...this rumour started. also,if you have a read of this,it might make more sense.personally i dont think he is rasist,but he does create characters in his books that are...

The monsters, ghosts and insanities that lurk beneath the bucolic landscape of King's territory in rural Maine are often diabolical, extraterrestrial or ancient in origin. But King's central themes are strikingly serious and contemporary. His greatest concern is with the survival, vindication and ultimate triumph of the weak and vulnerable. The tangible results of evil in King's universe include bullying, racism, wife beating, rape and, above all else, the abuse and murder of children. Few authors in any genre have ever captured the fragility and terror of childhood with such precision, and King's instinctive sympathy for the plight of the nerd, the fat kid, the scapegoat, the queer, is a great source of his appeal.
hope this helps alex.:)

AlexBM

Okay, I should have posted it as more of a question. As I've already said, I thought there might have been some sort of theory, along the lines of Enid Blyton being apparently racist. That's why I posted it to begin with.

Tar.Aldarion

Her story stems from 'Here comes Noddy Again'. Golliwogs lure Noddy into the woods under the pretence of asking for help and then steal his car and clothes. Hilarious imo.

Predhead

*melanie* wrote: »

hi, around 15 years ago,when things started to get very pc...this rumour started. also,if you have a read of this,it might make more sense.personally i dont think he is rasist,but he does create characters in his books that are...

The monsters, ghosts and insanities that lurk beneath the bucolic landscape of King's territory in rural Maine are often diabolical, extraterrestrial or ancient in origin. But King's central themes are strikingly serious and contemporary. His greatest concern is with the survival, vindication and ultimate triumph of the weak and vulnerable. The tangible results of evil in King's universe include bullying, racism, wife beating, rape and, above all else, the abuse and murder of children. Few authors in any genre have ever captured the fragility and terror of childhood with such precision, and King's instinctive sympathy for the plight of the nerd, the fat kid, the scapegoat, the queer, is a great source of his appeal.
hope this helps alex.:)

You forgot to include to the link from where you got that passage. :rolleyes:

http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2000/08/11/guide_king/index.html

*melanie*

ok everyone...i know its not much of my buisness,but i have to ask.does nobody here feel in anyway bad about the way alex was attacked in a way just for asking for some info on a subject that he was curious about? i think its wrong,and people should look at his thread starter and think before getting abusive and what not.thats the sort of thing that makes people not want to come back on boards at all,and i thought that this was supposed to be a community where people could ask for advise or a discussion...any thoughts?

Kold

*melanie* wrote: »

ok everyone...i know its not much of my buisness,but i have to ask.does nobody here feel in anyway bad about the way alex was attacked in a way just for asking for some info on a subject that he was curious about? i think its wrong,and people should look at his thread starter and think before getting abusive and what not.thats the sort of thing that makes people not want to come back on boards at all,and i thought that this was supposed to be a community where people could ask for advise or a discussion...any thoughts?

I think this is the internet and noone attacked Alex at all, merely his nonsensical thread.

Predhead

*melanie* wrote: »

ok everyone...i know its not much of my buisness,but i have to ask.does nobody here feel in anyway bad about the way alex was attacked in a way just for asking for some info on a subject that he was curious about? i think its wrong,and people should look at his thread starter and think before getting abusive and what not.thats the sort of thing that makes people not want to come back on boards at all,and i thought that this was supposed to be a community where people could ask for advise or a discussion...any thoughts?

Yeah the abusive ones as you call them, are the passive ones in reality I believe. If some of these people spoke to me like that in public they wouldn't be long about apologising, but I doubt they'd have to balls to do so in the first place. Of course they'll reply to the contrary but...actually I'm bored of these tossers, life's too short.

Mod's feel free to delete my account.

AlexBM

Kold wrote: »

I think this is the internet and noone attacked Alex at all, merely his nonsensical thread.

I don't think there's any need for this. I was wondering something, and thus the thread came about. I didn't intend to offend anybody, but so many of the replies I've had have contributed nothing at all. I don't understand why if somebody thinks it's a terrible thread, they don't just ignore it, or report it if they feel the need to, rather than posting responses like some of those on this thread.

Kold

Predhead wrote: »

Yeah the abusive ones as you call them, are the passive ones in reality I believe. If some of these people spoke to me like that in public they wouldn't be long about apologising, but I doubt they'd have to balls to do so in the first place. Of course they'll reply to the contrary but...actually I'm bored of these tossers, life's too short.

Mod's feel free to delete my account.

Again, I fail to see any abuse.

Sorry to see that you failed so abismally at the internet, I hope real life is your strong point seeing as people need balls to contradict you, I've no doubt you're really good at it.

Magic Eight Ball

AlexBM wrote: »

Stephen King is a white supremacist and a racist. Discuss.

Could you explain to me then why he'd voiced his support for Barack Obama?? :rolleyes:

pirelli

Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »

Her story stems from 'Here comes Noddy Again'. Golliwogs lure Noddy into the woods under the pretence of asking for help and then steal his car and clothes. Hilarious imo.

That was just Austrailia, Strangely the AUS goverment kept the secret sterilisation of the Aborigines in practice where by if they went to hospital for what ever reason, they would secretly be sterilised. The hypocrisy of banning 'NODDY' for being racist and secretly carrying out such a program against a race is beyong arrogant. Incidently Sweden had a secret program of sterilisation of disabled people up until the late seventies.

Maybe MRSA in irish hospitals is secretly being used ot get rid of the weak and infirm and save milions of ££. Look at Kevin Myers ( irish Independent) article last week about Ethiopia where he strongly supports letting the growing population die of malaria, and disapproves of vaccination programs.

The Eu also wants to re introduce some of these ideas, Euthanasia being one.

Discuss *****

*melanie* wrote: »

hi, around 15 years ago,when things started to get very pc...this rumour started. also,if you have a read of this,it might make more sense.personally i dont think he is rasist,but he does create characters in his books that are...

The monsters, ghosts and insanities that lurk beneath the bucolic landscape of King's territory in rural Maine are often diabolical, extraterrestrial or ancient in origin. But King's central themes are strikingly serious and contemporary. His greatest concern is with the survival, vindication and ultimate triumph of the weak and vulnerable. The tangible results of evil in King's universe include bullying, racism, wife beating, rape and, above all else, the abuse and murder of children. Few authors in any genre have ever captured the fragility and terror of childhood with such precision, and King's instinctive sympathy for the plight of the nerd, the fat kid, the scapegoat, the queer, is a great source of his appeal.
hope this helps alex.:)

Did you write that yourself and are you a stephen King reader , it's very well researched for a random chat forum. It is the one of a few post's that tackles the discussion constructively.

AlexBM wrote: »

Okay, I should have posted it as more of a question. As I've already said, I thought there might have been some sort of theory, along the lines of Enid Blyton being apparently racist. That's why I posted it to begin with.

Stephen King deals with character in his writing and he will get inside that
character. He likes depicting the more disturbing characters in society, The racist is also a stereotype and he will try to get inside the mens rea of such a mind and that will mean a litany of racist thoughts,feelings and even actions. He also gets inside the pyschopath and the mentally unstable and quite commonly the retarded or mentally challenged are the most heavily depicted of all his characters.

It is obvious that when he has a racist character he balances this with a character that isn't racist and has an opposite point of view. He definetly doesn't glorify racism, but does allow the rascist character the artistic licence to his point of view, but there is always the hero that is clean cut and hard working or has childhood problems, and not racist but usually honest.

Also his books go back and forth through american history most usually the characters childhood which would usually be the 1950's. There was extreme racism back then in many sectors of american society and goverment. It is impossible to just gloss over this when revisiting those times. The fact that King reminisces about those times so often and mostly from a particular perspective could be construed as slightly racist , however i would strongly disagree that he is a racist from his literature. Whether he is or not, he is trying very hard to disguise it.

*melanie*

pirelli wrote: »

Did you write that yourself and are you a stephen King reader , it's very well researched for a random chat forum. It is the one of a few post's that tackles the discussion constructivly

no,i didnt write it myself,the thread made me curious,therefore i looked it up online,thought it may explain some things.i have read a couple of his books,but not for a very long while now,into different authors these days.

*melanie*

Kold wrote: »

Again, I fail to see any abuse

.ok,so if you cant see any abuse,can you not at least see how rude people have been then?

pirelli

AlexBM wrote: »

Okay, I should have worded it differently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro ( AlexBM had this ace up his sleeve, im playing it for him)


discuss ***** The shining ,The green mile and many others..

Dick Hallorann in The Shining (1977), and in both the 1980 film adaptation (Scatman Crothers) and the 1997 TV miniseries (Melvin Van Peebles)
Mother Abagail in The Stand (1978), and the 1994 TV adaptation (Ruby Dee)

jaffa20

Kold wrote: »

Worst thread ever.

This really adds a lot to the discussion. If you don't want to read the topic being discussed then don't. If you want to add something useful then by all means feel free. Otherwise, don't bother.

pirelli

Kold wrote: »

Worst thread ever.

Left Out in the cold.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

This might cheer you up.

AlexBM

Thanks to pirelli for the introduction of the so-called magical negro to the thread, in the form of an edited post on page one and one just a few posts above this. I think it might explain a little of what I was trying to get at. it's worth a read/bit of research, whatever your opinion on King. Thanks again, pirelli.

Kold

jaffa20 wrote: »

This really adds a lot to the discussion. If you don't want to read the topic being discussed then don't. If you want to add something useful then by all means feel free. Otherwise, don't bother.

Slightly hypocritical, no?

pirelli

Kold wrote: »

Slightly hypocritical, no?

KOLD your IT.

Dades

pirelli wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro ( AlexBM had this ace up his sleeve, im playing it for him)

Some of the examples given on that page are complete bollocks.

Morgan Freeman in the films Bruce Almighty and Evan Almighty.
Morpheus in The Matrix?

Sure, there are stereotypes in every type of storytelling. Trial judges are always women or minorities on TV or film. That doesn't make anything racist, it just makes it clichéd.

If you look at the sheer volume of work that King has produced, and all anyone can come up with to label him as a racist are those three characters fitting a cliché, then the charge is somewhat lame.

BossArky

If people are going to give plot details then please use the spoilers tags and put a warning in a thread title.

Kold

pirelli wrote: »

KOLD your IT.

What about my IT?

Nevyn

He's a white boy from main who writes what he knows and that doesn't make him a racist ffs.

ixoy

The evidence there in the "magical negro" text isn't very convincing. You may think he rights simplistic or stereotypical characters at a glance but there's generally more depth. So say we have Detta (or is Odetta? I can't recall which) in "The Dark Tower" who likes to throw in some old talk that may appear condescending, in that she'll throw in phrase like "yes suh" and the like. Reading her character for any length of time, and you'll see that it's a wicked play on the racism her character would have suffered growing up. And that's not withstanding the additional depth her character gets from her multiple and resultant personalities.

Even showing someone like "Ma Abigail" has to also be taken into context of the likes of her opposite - Randall Flagg who is white. Do we mean to take it that King thinks white people are the embodiment of evil? Isn't that an equally simplistic view?

AlexBM

ixoy wrote: »

The evidence there in the "magical negro" text isn't very convincing. You may think he rights simplistic or stereotypical characters at a glance but there's generally more depth. So say we have Detta (or is Odetta? I can't recall which) in "The Dark Tower" who likes to throw in some old talk that may appear condescending, in that she'll throw in phrase like "yes suh" and the like. Reading her character for any length of time, and you'll see that it's a wicked play on the racism her character would have suffered growing up. And that's not withstanding the additional depth her character gets from her multiple and resultant personalities.

Even showing someone like "Ma Abigail" has to also be taken into context of the likes of her opposite - Randall Flagg who is white. Do we mean to take it that King thinks white people are the embodiment of evil? Isn't that an equally simplistic view?

It is overly simplistic, yes, but I was hoping for other people's insights. It's been interesting so far. I'm not familiar personally with much of King's work - I didn't enjoy the Dark Tower series - but wasn't Randall Flagg black?

Dades

AlexBM, after reading this thread, are you still actually looking for truth in the 'rumour'?

AlexBM

Dades wrote: »

AlexBM, after reading this thread, are you still actually looking for truth in the 'rumour'?

No, not necessarily, just looking for insights.