National Broadband satellite - effects of weather on speed

markmagennis

Satellite broadband speeds are affected by weather. I have a two-way satellite package from National Broadband which is rated as 1mbps download and 128kbps upload. As the weather changes from clear skies to heavy rain, I've been logging my actual download and upload speeds using SpeedTest.net. Here are some samples (download:upload).

990:170 Clear sky (I get these speeds most of the time)
976:141 Light rain
609:156 Heavier rain
498:117 Thick low cloud just after rain
586:169 Cloudy
000:000 Heavy rain and heavy mist
376:166 Light rain and heavy mist
639:175 Heavy mist
397:149 Heavy mist

Results that stick out:
1. Download rarely drops below 50% of maximum.
2. But in very bad conditions the connection can be lost completely.
3. Download is affected more than upload (taking % of top speed)
4. Upload is almost always higher than the 128k rating.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased (I'm still in the post-dial-up honeymoon period).
Mark

barnicles

In a school i was on a sat connection once 3 hours to load 1 web page

trabpc

is it Still going ok? Im considering NBB 58 euro a month offer. No other Choice!

markmagennis

Yes it's still going okay. Perfectly usable and reliable.

Mark

watty

Depends what part of Country you are in and how important upload speed is.

Also what size dish they fit.

There is something strange about how you are measuring as up and down attenuation is equal with rain but upload power is much lower as it uses 0.5W rather than normal 2W. With less than 2m dish usually upload is thus affected much more than download. Or you are in a hot spot for upload and poorer place for download. (We are on edge of footprint so odd things happen).

JohnnieM

Mate of mine has NBB..very happy with it,,On average using spedtest he reports 970 ish down and 990-1.2mb up ... High pings though ..in th 8-900ms... ..yes its quite a big dish

trabpc

My bro got it in last week and he seems very happy with it. Always between the 950-1000 mark for download. Alot quicker than his 02 dongle thingy.

mumhaabu

It looks like it would beat "THREE" anyday hands down. I guess a larger dish would give more stable results. NBB if you are reading you are the lesser of two evils and try and get yourself a slice of the NBS booty now that Eircom are excluded.

What is that package costing Mark? Do you use their Voip phone line and how is it?

Fuzzy Clam

mumhaabu wrote: »

It looks like it would beat "THREE" anyday hands down. I guess a larger dish would give more stable results. NBB if you are reading you are the lesser of two evils and try and get yourself a slice of the NBS booty now that Eircom are excluded.

What is that package costing Mark? Do you use their Voip phone line and how is it?

Pity you didn't say that here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57829162#post57829162youwhen you were putting down satelitte bb.:eek:

mumhaabu

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Pity you didn't say that here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57829162#post57829162youwhen you were putting down satelitte bb.:eek:

I like many others were sure Eircom had the NBS in the bag and was not too happy with reports that NBB Satellite would be getting in on the action, however now that the unthinkable happened and Three got it, Three are so bad they make anything look better.

markmagennis

mumhaabu wrote: »

What is that package costing Mark? Do you use their Voip phone line and how is it?

It's €48.90 a month. There is no VOIP service.

The package I signed up for was the Home Office (1024K) subscription which included 200 minutes (I think) free voice calls for a total of €68.90 per month. But they are giving me €20 a month rebate because there is no VOIP service. So it's down to €48.90 which suits me because I never wanted the free voice calls anyway.

Mark

SonOfPerdition

markmagennis wrote: »

It's €48.90 a month. There is no VOIP service.

The package I signed up for was the Home Office (1024K) subscription which included 200 minutes (I think) free voice calls for a total of €68.90 per month. But they are giving me €20 a month rebate because there is no VOIP service. So it's down to €48.90 which suits me because I never wanted the free voice calls anyway.

Mark

hi Mark,

whats the deal with no VOIP service. Is this your choice, or a problem they are having ?

fergalfrog

I have ordered the NBB product but they are out of stock and waiting to get it in before they can send it out to me.

They say:
"Our satellite system is designed for SELF INSTALLATION"

Can I ask how ppl have got on installing it themselves?

markmagennis

SonOfPerdition wrote: »

whats the deal with no VOIP service. Is this your choice, or a problem they are having ?

It's a problem they are having.

Mark

markmagennis

fergalfrog wrote: »

Can I ask how ppl have got on installing it themselves?

I know this doesn't answer your question, but when I subscribed some bloke came round and installed it, but it looked like I could have done it easily myself. Mount the dish, run the cable through the house, unpack the ASTRA2Connect router, plug it in and connect it to my WiFi base station and run a bit of software supplied on a CD to get the laptop to converse with the router. Seemed pretty straightforward, although I didn't actually try it of course, it just SEEMED straightforward.

Mark

fergalfrog

Cheers Mark - thanks for that.

I am hoping I can do it myself. I am planning on getting the dish attached to a pole outside and then run a cable in through the window.

That way if I move house or it doesn't work I can just pick it up and go.

watty

Alignment isn't straight forward and needs a sat meter. There are 22 satellites up there receiveable in Ireland. Only one will work. The dish needs pointing to within 0.5 degree or better if dish larger. A TV aerial is OK within 20 degrees.. 40 times more accuracy needed or you get no signal.

watty

markmagennis wrote: »

It's a problem they are having.

Mark

Like the 800ms+ extra latency. VOIP can sort of work. But the delay makes it awkward and the Astra2Connect hasn't the uplink speed for G711 codec in rain. Also they need to implement some sort of QOS as otherwise any uploading, email, web browsing etc will jitter/packet loss the VOIP and make it very poor.

fergalfrog

watty wrote: »

Alignment isn't straight forward and needs a sat meter.

They give you an audio ear piece which you put in your ear and move the satellite dish across the sky until you hear a pinging noise. When the pinging is at its loudest you then lock the dish in position. You cannot lock on to the wrong satellite as the ear piece will only ping for the Astra satellite at 23.5 degrees east. It will not ping for anything else.

I will let you know how I get on. My credit card got charged nearly 2 weeks ago so I'm hoping they send me the equipment soon.

mumhaabu

fergalfrog wrote: »

They give you an audio ear piece which you put in your ear and move the satellite dish across the sky until you hear a pinging noise. When the pinging is at its loudest you then lock the dish in position. You cannot lock on to the wrong satellite as the ear piece will only ping for the Astra satellite at 23.5 degrees east. It will not ping for anything else.

I will let you know how I get on. My credit card got charged nearly 2 weeks ago so I'm hoping they send me the equipment soon.

Lol! I can't believe this was being rolled out on a DIY basis? I was certain they installed it for you! I remember those buzzers from that piece of crap Lidl satellite system a while back, there is no way it is humanly possible for an average person to be expected to be able to set this up before unless they know the workings of Satellite technology and all the trappings that go with it. For VSAT and especially for this product that is on the margins of footprint you need to dish to be 100% aligned correctly as if it is not then in light misty rain it will cut out which is of no use whatsoever to a product that delivers internet based data.

This product is best left to a experienced satellite engineer as you will see in the video below even the guy in the video is using a professional meter not a cheap buzzer that can be got on ebay for pennies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LNSPZCrjbM

This is their promo video also, the video on the NBB site is not working presumably they must be hosting via satellite too:eek:

Best of luck aligning it but I can see it becoming a real nightmare!

fergalfrog

They will install it for you for 100 euro if you want. I thought I'd have a go myself anyway. According to the guy I spoke to most people can install it themselves - he spoke of 600+ installations and only a handful where the user had to call out an engineer.

I will update as to how it goes as soon as I get it. They have a 14 day money back thing so I don't think I will get stung too badly. It seems great but whether it does what it says is another thing.

Where I am it's this or dial-up (I have tried everything else as documented on williamstownoffline.com), so if I get anything like the advertised speeds I will be happy. I may however have some difficulty explaining to clients that I missed a deadline because it was raining!!!

48nico

HI,i just recently installed the satellite myself during the bad weather of 3 weeks ago,i found the ear phone useless as i was getting their full package broadband+tv+voip.i found the tv channels first the broadband wasnt far from that. my package was 1mb download,128 upload ,using broadband speed test it shows im getting around 90% average,the jitters are between 185-350 not great,im still waiting on phone handset from them,im using an old phone till then:)

YOU will never align it on your own it took me 4to 5 hours and alot of srcreaming,if i were to do it again i would get it installed

fergalfrog

48nico wrote: »

YOU will never align it on your own it took me 4to 5 hours and alot of srcreaming,if i were to do it again i would get it installed

Right - that's not what they told me - they said they had sold over 600 and only a few required an engineer to come out...

48nico

YOU have no problem putting up the dish it the alignment can be hard(pick a dry day:D)

trabpc

My brother who knows nothing IT related installed it in an afternoon. Yea Aligning the dish can be tricky but he managed it. Im getting it next week or early in new year. Save your self the €100. he also is paying €58 but is getting the €20 rebate.

Will the phone element ever work?

Ill probably get Eircom for the phone anyway.

fergalfrog

Cheers - What is the 20 euro rebate you mentioned?

I am still waiting on my equipment.

trabpc

His charge is €58 p/m but because phone is not working on sat yet he is gettig the €20 back so all he is currently paying is €38 euro.

NWM

My experience with NBB (I have posted in the past about not having any other option where I am, and I tried them all).

Last week in Nov: I rang and made my order. The guy says that most people install themselves and it is no bother because of the sat meter, so I choose this option. He says I will get it by the end of November.

1st week in Dec: I ring again since nothing has arrived the previous week as they promised. They have lost all my details so I order again. They say I should get it before the end of the week.

16th December: I ring asking what the status is. They say they will ring back. They don't.

17th December (this morning): I ring again, they guy fesses up that there is a huge backlog and the whole thing is in chaos and he will TRY to get it out to me before XMAS.

****ers.

boggerboy

NWM..
they don't have any stock of product, thats why you are not getting your order. Be careful with your cash...

NWM wrote: »

My experience with NBB (I have posted in the past about not having any other option where I am, and I tried them all).

Last week in Nov: I rang and made my order. The guy says that most people install themselves and it is no bother because of the sat meter, so I choose this option. He says I will get it by the end of November.

1st week in Dec: I ring again since nothing has arrived the previous week as they promised. They have lost all my details so I order again. They say I should get it before the end of the week.

16th December: I ring asking what the status is. They say they will ring back. They don't.

17th December (this morning): I ring again, they guy fesses up that there is a huge backlog and the whole thing is in chaos and he will TRY to get it out to me before XMAS.

****ers.

fergalfrog

I have had the same experience. On their website, www.nbb.ie they have:

"Order now and be surfing the net at BROADBAND SPEED WITHIN 72 HOURS !!"

My credit card was debitted on Nov 28th and I sent my direct debit form on Dec 2nd. I have not got anything yet and it would appear it will be well into the New Year before I get anything. I will update here as soon as I get anything.

Zaphod

Eurosat/BeyonDSL have been signed up recently as UK distributors for Astra2Connect. Considering the differences in prices per month for equivalent 512Kbps packages (NBB €50 vs BeyonDSL £29), they might be worth contacting.

http://www.beyondsl.net/a2cinfo.htm

hjr

trabpc wrote: »

His charge is €58 p/m but because phone is not working on sat yet he is gettig the €20 back so all he is currently paying is €38 euro.

Just wondering did you ask for a rebate or was it offered, as I have the 1MB option for about a month now and no sign of phone to arrive....

Thanks

Ogham

I have the 1Mb option too - and no mention of phone service. I didn't push it - and assumed the charges would work out dearer than our UTV package (free evening and weekend calls in Ireland and UK)
A 20 euro reduction would be nice . Did you ask Mark - or did it just happen?

I had it installed in Sept - by an an engineer . No way would I do it myself. He said they had installed about 600 - no mention of any self install. A neighbour of mine got it installed by them before Christmas - as far as I know there was no major delays for them.
The only thing I have a problem with - is if you go over 5Gb in a month you get reduced speeds for the rest of the month. It has happenned twice now. They don't specifically say in their policy that 5Gb is a limit - but I have been told that 5Gb is some sort of limit. Apart from that - speeds are mostly around the 980kbps for me. With 3 teenagers in the house - I'll have to limit their use of youtube etc ..

mumhaabu

Ogham wrote: »

I have the 1Mb option too - and no mention of phone service. I didn't push it - and assumed the charges would work out dearer than our UTV package (free evening and weekend calls in Ireland and UK)
A 20 euro reduction would be nice . Did you ask Mark - or did it just happen?

I had it installed in Sept - by an an engineer . No way would I do it myself. He said they had installed about 600 - no mention of any self install. A neighbour of mine got it installed by them before Christmas - as far as I know there was no major delays for them.
The only thing I have a problem with - is if you go over 5Gb in a month you get reduced speeds for the rest of the month. It has happenned twice now. They don't specifically say in their policy that 5Gb is a limit - but I have been told that 5Gb is some sort of limit. Apart from that - speeds are mostly around the 980kbps for me. With 3 teenagers in the house - I'll have to limit their use of youtube etc ..

Never mind 5GB I could download 20 or 30GB in a day never mind a month, this is really only a snazzy web page accelerator and of no use for the other real useful things on the net, like Rapidshare, Torrents, Distros and downloads to Xbox etc. 5Gb is an absolute joke of a limit. Anything under 100GB/month isn't worth pissing at! But then at 1megabit or 100KB/s it would take a nice bit to get into mega gigabyte downloads.

Ogham

mumhaabu wrote: »

Never mind 5GB I could download 20 or 30GB in a day never mind a month, this is really only a snazzy web page accelerator and of no use for the other real useful things on the net, like Rapidshare, Torrents, Distros and downloads to Xbox etc. 5Gb is an absolute joke of a limit. Anything under 100GB/month isn't worth pissing at! But then at 1megabit or 100KB/s it would take a nice bit to get into mega gigabyte downloads.

It's this or 30k dial up for me - nothing else works where I live. It is more than a "web page accelerator" - it's an internet connection and it's all I have available. I know it's not great - but what else can I do?
(Ok I could move to a city - but that's not an option)

Fuzzy Clam

mumhaabu wrote: »

Never mind 5GB I could download 20 or 30GB in a day never mind a month, this is really only a snazzy web page accelerator and of no use for the other real useful things on the net, like Rapidshare, Torrents, Distros and downloads to Xbox etc. 5Gb is an absolute joke of a limit. Anything under 100GB/month isn't worth pissing at! But then at 1megabit or 100KB/s it would take a nice bit to get into mega gigabyte downloads.

Yeah, but some of us have a life outside of sitting in front of a pc all day downloading porn:rolleyes:
Most average users would not come anywhere near 100 Gb a month.

48nico

mumhaabu wrote: »

Never mind 5GB I could download 20 or 30GB in a day never mind a month, this is really only a snazzy web page accelerator and of no use for the other real useful things on the net, like Rapidshare, Torrents, Distros and downloads to Xbox etc. 5Gb is an absolute joke of a limit. Anything under 100GB/month isn't worth pissing at! But then at 1megabit or 100KB/s it would take a nice bit to get into mega gigabyte downloads.

This 5GB came as a surprise to me to i was reduced to between 48k-85k for 2 weeks

fergalfrog

mumhaabu wrote: »

Lol! I can't believe this was being rolled out on a DIY basis? I was certain they installed it for you! I remember those buzzers from that piece of crap Lidl satellite system a while back, there is no way it is humanly possible for an average person to be expected to be able to set this up before unless they know the workings of Satellite technology and all the trappings that go with it. For VSAT and especially for this product that is on the margins of footprint you need to dish to be 100% aligned correctly as if it is not then in light misty rain it will cut out which is of no use whatsoever to a product that delivers internet based data.

This product is best left to a experienced satellite engineer......

....Best of luck aligning it but I can see it becoming a real nightmare!

After some delay I got my equipment last week and I now agree fully with the above. I had to go pick it up at my nearest train station which kinda defeated the purpose of requesting delivery.

It is not as simple an install as I thought it would be. I called them yesterday to arrange an engineer to come out and do the install. Apparently the self install is based on Germany and Luxemburg where they are installing it themselves. Maybe we are just thick but I have no doubt the average user would need to allow at least a full day and plenty of patience for it. I can't devote a day to it especially not being very confident I would get it working.

If everyone could do this then Sky tv would be a self install too.

You will need all the tools/skills required to bolt a dish to a wall. You can use an antennae pole (should you have one lying around!!) but you will still need to bore through a wall to bring it into the house. You'll also need a compass. The earpiece thing seems to be missing from what I received.

All up it's in the too hard basket for me and I'm happy to pay the 100 euro to get someone out to do it. I don't consider myself completely useless btw. I am 31 years old, do the odd basic handy man job, have been working in the internet industry for 9 years and yet I am saying no to the self install. That's just me but I asked 2 people I work with and my partner and they all said they would pay the 100 euro. My advice would be unless you have done stuff like this before you'd be better off pay the 100 euro.

watty

Signal is a LOT stronger in Germany/Lux = smaller dish = easier to align.


Lidl get a lot of returned sat systems and people take a long while to install them badly.

48nico

48nico wrote: »

HI,i just recently installed the satellite myself during the bad weather of 3 weeks ago,i found the ear phone useless as i was getting their full package broadband+tv+voip.i found the tv channels first the broadband wasnt far from that. my package was 1mb download,128 upload ,using broadband speed test it shows im getting around 90% average,the jitters are between 185-350 not great,im still waiting on phone handset from them,im using an old phone till then:)

YOU will never align it on your own it took me 4to 5 hours and alot of srcreaming,if i were to do it again i would get it installed

hi Fergalfrog whats your speed like:)

fergalfrog

48nico wrote: »

...whats your speed like:)

Don't know yet - engineer is coming out to install it late this week or early next week. As with others I have tried everything else and other than dial-up this is the only option available to me.

trabpc

As I said before My bro knows nothing About I.T. He is Handy at DIY like most of us here. Really all it is is 4 bolts to the wall and bore a hole for the Coax. Yes aligning it took an hour or two. he bought a router and configed it to send it around the house via wireless. Come on lads it not that hard!!

He picked up the dish and box up at their base in Clane.

BTW he has noticed it has slowed quiet alot recently. some pages won't load at all.
Most Websites seem to think he is based in Belgium or some other European country.
The Ip is Atomatically configured. so he can't change it.

1st 3 weeks worked great now not so sure. looking at 3 again!

Ogham

The slow down is probably - as mentioned earlier - because he is going over 2GB . It is not stated in black and white - but it looks like the Astra service (not NBB directly) start cutting speeds once you download 2Gb in a month. Speeds are cut as as low as 64k if you go over 5GB. Once the 4 weeks (1 month is up the speed goes back to normal until you hit the limit again. Not great - but what choice have you got?

watty

NBB have no hub. They are just a reseller of Astra2connect. So he is IP is wherever the REAL isp is (Netherlands, belgium, Germany, Italy are typical for Satellite Hubs).

Ogham

Mine (NBB) shows up as a Luxembourg IP address

fergalfrog

trabpc wrote: »

As I said before My bro knows nothing About I.T. He is Handy at DIY like most of us here. Really all it is is 4 bolts to the wall and bore a hole for the Coax. Yes aligning it took an hour or two. he bought a router and configed it to send it around the house via wireless. Come on lads it not that hard!!

Well then maybe it's just me!!! I don't have a drill to go boring in the 4 bolts or to run the cable through the wall. I don't have the time really either (and I still estimate most of a day is required).

I don't know one woman who owns a drill and certainly none would be prepared to take on the install. I know there might be some that could but still this rules out almost close to 50% of the population.

The earpiece (and perhaps more) was missing in the equipment I received. If you install it you have to call them again to activate your modem too. All up it was a much better idea to get someone out to do the install.

As I said before if everyone could do this then Sky tv would be a self install too.

I have to keep chasing them and the previous post "engineer is coming out to install it late this week or early next week" didn't matierialise. As of today an engineer is coming out on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

watty

Very few men or women can do it.

Actually I know some girls/women safter and better with drill than some "Tim Allen" overconfident DIY disaster areas.


You have to use correct type of:
drill bit (and correct size)
drill machine
bolts
maybe eye protection

From posts on Cable & Digital TV | Satellite forum, many people can't align the easier small dish for FTA BBC TV.

watty

Ogham wrote: »

Mine (NBB) shows up as a Luxembourg IP address

Astra (the service provider) are based in Luxembourg. It means they have probably more satellites per person than any country (of course most or for other country).

fergalfrog

watty wrote: »

Very few men or women can do it.

Phew...it's not just me then.

trabpc

TBH it probably took him 4 hours in total so €100 is not too bad for install

€25 per hour

I take the point not many have a Drill or bit capable of going through 300mm of concrete!

fergalfrog

I am up and running with NBB and although I have ony used it for two full days.

You can see what it looks like at:
http://www.williamstownoffline.com/images/nbb_small.jpg

See how it is around double the size of my sky dish. A Polish guy came on time to do it and did a top job. It took him just under 2 hours I'd say and there's no way I could have done as good a job.

Also while it's early days yet I haven't seen it to be affected by weather. The guy who installed it seemed to know his stuff and he said the weather had no effect unless it was very windy. (It was snowing at the time and I have been logging speeds since I got it).

Since this is the only form of broadband I can get I am very grateful for it. It has taken a while to get it - my credit card was debitted on Nov 28th and I sent my direct debit form on Dec 2nd - there was Christmas and the self-install business but I had to keep chasing them and they're very poor to say the least at returning calls!