Eamon Ryan's tells us off.

spadder

How dare Eamon Ryan lecture us about overspending, him and his FF buddies spent like drunken sailors up to a couple of weeks ago.

It is FF and their builder buddies who have us in this state, not the taxpayer you D1(k head:mad:

He's some neck, so it's our fault too the ESB is going up :rolleyes:

spadder

much to my shame I voted for these wasters last time, I thought they would put it up to FF. They bent over on every issue FF tell them too. Never again.

sprinkles

a link would be useful....

And maybe an explaination on how FF and their builder buddies have us here?

PrivateEye

Would ya leave poor Mr. Ryan alone, he's prone to forgetting things.



The Green Party played us all for a pack of eejits.

Latchy

spadder wrote: »

How dare Eamon Ryan lecture us about overspending, him and his FF buddies spent like drunken sailors up to a couple of weeks ago.

It is FF and their builder buddies who have us in this state, not the taxpayer you D1(k head:mad:

Probably taking a leaf out of Gordens Browns statement for people to not to waste food ,ye know anything Britain does or says we follow suit .

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

So you think that the we acted perfectly reasonably in accepting inflated prices and borrowing more money than we could ever hope to pay back?

I don't care whether you blame the greens or FF, but there is a certain thing called personal responsibility that we like to sweep under the carpet in Ireland.

It's like the spoilt little who ate too many sweets having and having a tummy ache blaming the sweetshop.

Mr.Micro

Its as simple as this FF deserve the Greens and vice versa. They could not manage the economy when there was loads of money coming in, so what are the chances of them doing it right with no money? Ryan is now FF. Not 5 minutes ago they were all set to take the big salary increases. Close the Dail and we will save on the heating and electric bills.

brianthebard

PrivateEye wrote: »

Would ya leave poor Mr. Ryan alone, he's prone to forgetting things.

The Green Party played us all for a pack of eejits.

not all of us,just those who voted for them.

Blackjack

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So you think that the we acted perfectly reasonably in accepting inflated prices and borrowing more money than we could ever hope to pay back?

I don't care whether you blame the greens or FF, but there is a certain thing called personal responsibility that we like to sweep under the carpet in Ireland.

It's like the spoilt little who ate too many sweets having and having a tummy ache blaming the sweetshop.

+1

spadder

Most people's biggest outlay is their house, for years the government let the prices spiral out of control because it suited their galway tent buddies, bent politicians, corrupt developers and themselves. FF wallowed like pigs in ****e in the stamp duty revenue. Now it's dryed up, they have nothing to show for it. Crap infrastructure,no health service, schools in chaos and multinationals dropping like fleas beacuse of the high cost of doing business here.

Well done Mr Ryan for blaming me, I will take full responsiblity because I choose to have a nice car for sitting in traffic for 10 hours a week.

Tricity Bendix

spadder wrote: »

How dare Eamon Ryan lecture us about overspending, him and his FF buddies spent like drunken sailors up to a couple of weeks ago.

It is FF and their builder buddies who have us in this state, not the taxpayer you D1(k head:mad:

Please furnish me with one example of Eamon Ryan's overspending. Thnx.

watty

Wood Pellets.

It was money for a different purpose so a 100% overspend.

And a total waste of money to scammers.

I've been environmentalist since a teenager. But I'd never vote for these Greens. They are clueless.

spadder

Incinerators:

We are still going a ahead building sites for BURNING rubbish, when other countries are moving away from this idiotic solution.

irish_bob

i thought eamon ryan spoke the truth for the most part
i find it redicolous how couples with 2 kids have built or bought 6 bedroom housed and drive his and her,s suv,s
they cost a fortune to heat and run respectivly

djpbarry

spadder wrote: »

Most people's biggest outlay is their house, for years the government let the prices spiral out of control ...

Did they? How?

spadder wrote: »

...I will take full responsiblity because I choose to have a nice car for sitting in traffic for 10 hours a week.

So you should - not sure what that has to do with Eamonn Ryan.

sovtek

djpbarry wrote: »

Did they? How?
So you should - not sure what that has to do with Eamonn Ryan.

Because they did next to nothing to stop speculation for one.
I read the other day that Revenue is now going after landlords for the tax they've been avoiding for years. NOW! Why didn't they always do this?

djpbarry

sovtek wrote: »

Because they did next to nothing to stop speculation for one.

I'm not sure what you mean?

Well, I'm just wondering why it's the government's fault that some people were prepared to pay €350,000 for a 2-bed house in Kildare and leave themselves with a monster of a commute every day.

sovtek wrote: »

I read the other day that Revenue is now going after landlords for the tax they've been avoiding for years. NOW! Why didn't they always do this?

While I agree with you, one has to ask why tenants would be prepared to rent from a landlord who is not willing to divulge their PPS number so the tenant can claim their rent allowance.

sovtek

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean?

Well, I'm just wondering why it's the government's fault that some people were prepared to pay €350,000 for a 2-bed house in Kildare and leave themselves with a monster of a commute every day.

Speculation drove the prices so high and the government did little if nothing to curb speculation. Therefore what choice did this imaginary family have?

While I agree with you, one has to ask why tenants would be prepared to rent from a landlord who is not willing to divulge their PPS number so the tenant can claim their rent allowance.

Why would landlords avoid tax and why would the government seemingly tolerate it until they decided they actually needed the money?

djpbarry

sovtek wrote: »

Speculation drove the prices so high...

People being prepared to pay crazy money for substandard property drove the prices up.

Is it the fault of the British government that ticket prices for Premiership games are soaring?

sovtek wrote: »

Why would landlords avoid tax...

Again, I'm not sure what you mean. What I am saying is that I find it very strange that so many tenants are happy to go without their rent allowance (a significant sum to a lot of tenants). I wouldn’t even consider renting from a landlord who is not prepared to divulge his/her PPS number for tax purposes.

RDM_83

Do you mean rent allowance that you claim when your on social welfare (and which a lot of landlords do not accept) or rent allowance as in the tax you can get back from your rent payments.
and the answer to your question is students and people in low paid jobs/nixers, I've lived in Dublin for 6 years now and never claimed money back for rent payments. In the place I'm in now landlord must be registered cos flatmate claiming back tax but have to say prefered the landlord had a few years ago, used to come around to get the rent cash in hand-at least then you could get to talk to him about repairs etc.

silverharp

sovtek wrote: »

Speculation drove the prices so high and the government did little if nothing to curb speculation. Therefore what choice did this imaginary family have?

Don't credit the gov with powers they do not have, governments cant stop speculation "manias" just like they cant stop crashes or is FF running Spain where a similar mania is unwinding?

sprinkles

I really fail to see how the government could stop house prices soaring. They put off investors with ridiculous stamp duty and that did nothing (I jest!)

But seriously if you think the government are at fault for the house prices then you are wrong. It's the average joe willing to spend 500,000 on a badly built 1 bed apartment in sandyford that had the house prices soaring. They will level off at the value that people can afford. Hopefully this blip will force people into examining what they can afford - it's definately forced the banks to examine it a but more in depth and stop offering people mortgages they can't afford. Hmmmm.... were does the government fit into that?

djpbarry

RDM_83 wrote: »

Do you mean rent allowance that you claim when your on social welfare (and which a lot of landlords do not accept) or rent allowance as in the tax you can get back from your rent payments.

The latter.

RDM_83 wrote: »

...I've lived in Dublin for 6 years now and never claimed money back for rent payments.

You know you can claim for previous years? That's a fair bit of money.

AlekSmart

Poor oul Eamon Ryan,like many an Irish politican before him he`s guilty at most,of tellin it like it is :rolleyes:

Whilst the arguement over our spending habits can ebb and flow with gusto,the reality is that both ourselves and our Imperial neighbours have somewhat willingly availed of the blandishments of the snake-oil salesmen over the past 20 years.

The roots of this lie,i believe,in the reign of Lady Margaret Hilda Thatcher and her incredible band of fellow political travellers.
This incredible woman has left us all a legacy which is far from complete and our current downward spiral may not even be the final chapter.

The social changes wreaked on Great Britain as a consequence of her policies may well take centuries to fully propagate.
Both Britain and ourselves are countries and social orders in turmoil with very few inhabitants having any real sense of place,identity or culture.

We compensated for that in the immediate aftermath of Lady T`s shares-for-all boom by embarking on a comfort-spending spree whereby all of the old-order was dispensed with and replaced by "stuff" which had accquired a new found value....an SUV,a tiny dockland "Loft",membership of a "Health Club" etc etc.

The "Old Fashioned" stuff such as tight closed knit family centred living were deemed to be undesireable if not even dangerous as it presented certain dangers of rebellious mutterings should the Lady`s policies go astray.

The Miners and Steelworkers disputes,or more correctly the manner of Lady T`s suppression of them and the subsequent dismantling of an entire social system left her and her policies totally triumphant.

I`m not attempting to be judgemental about her or her policies but rather throwing out a piece of crusty bread to chew upon as I feel her entire era merely proved how few of the other politicians had any clue about their calling.

Either way,Eamonn Ryan,in vocalizing his "Reap as ye shall Sow" speech is to be praised for not taking the easy route !!

irish_bob

i bet you blame thatcher for our awfull summers too

Liam Byrne

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Close the Dail and we will save on the heating and electric bills.

They're doing that themselves....in the middle of a crisis, after wasting loads of OUR money on eVoting machines, office renovations for pointless ex-Taoisigh with no jobs anymore, new (non-environmentally-friendly!!) luxury cars, expense claims that don't need receipts (and even "compensation" for people who can't claim expenses - WTF is that about!!!!).....they're off on their "summer" holidays......

Shower of wasters - literally AND metaphorically!!!!

eoinmadden

sovtek wrote: »

Because they did next to nothing to stop speculation for one.

There was a Green Party policy to tax property speculation. Basically to tax property that was not one's primary residence.
But the Green Party didn't get enough votes so this never became policy.

eoinmadden

sovtek wrote: »

Speculation drove the prices so high and the government did little if nothing to curb speculation. Therefore what choice did this imaginary family have?

Do what my family did.
NOT get caught up in the speculation.
NOT pay inflated prices.
Save. Rent. Ignore idiots who preached about the property "ladder".
Save some more.

jmayo

djpbarry wrote: »

...
Well, I'm just wondering why it's the government's fault that some people were prepared to pay €350,000 for a 2-bed house in Kildare and leave themselves with a monster of a commute every day....

A lot of our property bubble is due to the government either through their actions or inactions.
Look at how many properties were built in the likes of Leitrim due to Section 23.
At the last census the county was running at 70% occupancy.
That means 30% of the properties were empty.
Now when the Eastern European workers head for greener shores that level will rise even more.
You now have ghost villages in the county due to fact houses were built with aim of selling to investors to counter their tax liabilities.

In the likes of Limerick you have had building of apartments due to Section 50 scheme.
These schemes were continued too long and have affectively only encouraged over building and over supply in some areas.

Another example that is coming home to roost is the capital grants for hotel developments. Where are all these lovely hotels going to get customers, what with the Irish being cash strapped, the american dollar semi worthless and the weather cack.

The government sat back and allowed the builders, developers, speculators and investors to continue the proerty gravy train.
Did anyone (Finace or Central Bank) ever question the banks regarding scale of 100% mortgages ?
Afterall the returns to the exchequer were great, the boyos in the tent were doing mighty, while it lasted and sure wasn't property always going to go up :rolleyes:

Saying all that nobody held a gun to anyones head and some idiots voted them back in,even after all their arrogance and wastage.

Liam Byrne

eoinmadden wrote: »

Ignore idiots who preached about the property "ladder".

Yup, this pathetic phrase was recited everywhere.....

Stuff "wanting to buy somewhere to live".....I was in a bank one day and heard a bank official say to a potential client "So you want to get on the property ladder"...

If it had been me I'd have walked out, saying "no, actually - I want to buy somewhere to live, and since you don't understand my needs and requirements, there's no point in discussing it with you".

What happened to "waste not, want not" and all the other good advice that our parents used to hand down ?

FF squandered the boom, and the Greens rolled over as soon as they got power. Eamon Ryan might be telling it as it is, but he's definitely not doing anything to solve the problem.

Imagine an Ireland where our tax money hadn't been wasted on ego projects for FF and poor value-for-money.....one where we'd actually have proper, economical, direct public transport between all the major cities and their satellite towns, where we weren't stuck in traffic for hours wasting ever-more-expensive petrol.....

eoinmadden

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Eamon Ryan might be telling it as it is, but he's definitely not doing anything to solve the problem.

What should they be doing?

They've raised the guidelines for minimum apartment size. They've raised the guidelines for minimum insulation. They've made it easier to get planning for windfarms. They are investing money in wave power research.

They can't build a time machine and go back and stop the housing boom.

Liam Byrne

eoinmadden wrote: »

What should they be doing?

Refusing (and stopping their Government partners commissioning) high-powered luxury cars.

Putting their money where their mouth is (was ?) re Tara.

Promoting intelligent planning, where everyone doesn't have to travel 40 miles to work, or ensuring proper broadband coverage so people can work from home.

Prompting decent and affordable public transport......you still can't get direct train from most of our major cities to another.

Making recycling facilities available (lots of them are closed on Saturdays) and cheaper (Mr Binman's €3 per recycle bag does nothing to encourage recycling - easier and cheaper to throw it in the already-paid-for bin!

Forcing shops to provide paper bags for a couple of cent, instead of taxing us to use plastic because there's no alternative.

Will I go on ?

Andrew H

The Green Party sold out all of their beliefs to get into bed with Finna Fail. The one reason I would have voted for them would have been that they stood up for their ideals. But once they got into power we saw their true colours. Say goodbye to the Hill of Tara!

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely (look at Finna Fail)

Blackjack

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Prompting decent and affordable public transport......you still can't get direct train from most of our major cities to another.

Was part of the problem the major whinging that resounded as soon as there was a suggestion that a cent be spent outside the pale on any Infrastructure?.

thebman

sprinkles wrote: »

But seriously if you think the government are at fault for the house prices then you are wrong. It's the average joe willing to spend 500,000 on a badly built 1 bed apartment in sandyford that had the house prices soaring. They will level off at the value that people can afford. Hopefully this blip will force people into examining what they can afford - it's definately forced the banks to examine it a but more in depth and stop offering people mortgages they can't afford. Hmmmm.... were does the government fit into that?

Why were the banks offering people mortgages they couldn't afford in the first place? Thats where the problems started.

If the banks would only give people what they could afford to pay back, houses wouldn't have cost 500,000 because nobody could afford to pay that for a house because nobody could get a 100% mortgage to cover the cost of the house.

oscarBravo

Andrew H wrote: »

Say goodbye to the Hill of Tara!

Where's it going?

Andrew H

oscarBravo wrote: »

Where's it going?

Not exactly going anywere but it will have as much history attaached to it as wodquay by the time this goverment is finished with it. Oh yeah sorry they gave us Dublinia (tacky tourist attraction) when they were finished destroying that part of our heritage.

oscarBravo

Andrew H wrote: »

Not exactly going anywere but it will have as much history attaached to it as wodquay by the time this goverment is finished with it.

Because of a motorway that's going to be further away from Tara than the current N3?

eoinmadden

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Refusing (and stopping their Government partners commissioning) high-powered luxury cars.

The three ministers commute to work by bicycle and Luas. But perhaps they use big cars when going somewhere inaccessible by bike, perhaps they use small cars, I'm not sure.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Putting their money where their mouth is (was ?) re Tara.

What's that got to do with the economy?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Promoting intelligent planning, where everyone doesn't have to travel 40 miles to work,

John Gormley is doing that. He has brought out new planning guidelines. Just a few days ago he ordered Mayo County Council to send their county development plan back to the drawing boards because it is unsustainable.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Prompting decent and affordable public transport......you still can't get direct train from most of our major cities to another.

The balance spending on public transport -v- roads has dramatically improved since the Greens agreed the Programme for Government.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Making recycling facilities available (lots of them are closed on Saturdays) and cheaper

That's something that maybe needs to be tackled at a local rather than national government level.
In the meantime John Gormley has stopped Irish companies selling waste to dodgy Chinese companies for "recycling".

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Forcing shops to provide paper bags for a couple of cent, instead of taxing us to use plastic because there's no alternative.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Every shop I know, except Aldi, Lidl and Tesco, give away paper bags for free. From an environmental point of view it is better to reuse existing plastic bags then making more paper bags, anyway.

eoinmadden

Andrew H wrote: »

The Green Party sold out all of their beliefs to get into bed with Fianna Fail.

If you believe that the Green Party's sole policy was "We are anti-Fianna Fail", then sure. But that wasn't their policy.
Compromises were made, sure. The Green Party will not achieve everything set out in their election manifesto. But then neither will Fianna Fail. Are Fianna Fail sell-outs?
Jackie Healy Rae fought the last election on the basis that a vote for Fine Gael was a vote for the Green Party. He literally was an "anybody but the Greens " candidate. He now supports them in government.
Is he a sell-out?

Andrew H wrote: »

The one reason I would have voted for them would have been that they stood up for their ideals. But once they got into power

Its coalition. Not absolute power.

Andrew H wrote: »

we saw their true colours.

We certainly do. They are not the hippie sandal wearers the media likes to make them out to be. They are hard working and willing to make unpopular decisions.

Andrew H wrote: »

Say goodbye to the Hill of Tara!

Is it being knocked?

Andrew H wrote: »

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely (look at Finna Fail)

If that is your feeling then you should make sure to vote for some party who never wants to get in to government.
Pity there is none.
Besides no politician or no political party in this country has absolute power. Voters have, perhaps wisely, chosen coalitions.

Andrew H

Correct me if im wrong but did the previous leader of the Green Party refuse to lead his party into a coalition with Finna Fail and then after a party conference and over whelming vote in favour of entering goverment (86% yes) resign, but said he would take a Junior Minister post within the new goverment!!

Granted the Green party did achieve some of it's goals in entering goverment and the days of breast feeding activists at Green Party conferences are long gone but Green Party's negotiators admitted that the proposed Government programme was far from perfect from their point of view, with failures to secure movement on key issues like the use of Shannon Airport by the US military, the building of the M3 motorway through the Tara valley, and hospital co-location.

The Greens helped to keep a party in goverment that has been in power way too long and in the long run will suffer the same faith that Dick Springs Labour Party and the Progressive Democrats have suffered at the hands of the electorate.

eoinmadden

Andrew H wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong but did the previous leader of the Green Party refuse to lead his party into a coalition with Finna Fail and then after a party conference and over whelming vote in favour of entering goverment (86% yes) resign, but said he would take a Junior Minister post within the new goverment!!

Trevor Sargent said that he would not lead the Green Party in government with Fianna Fail. This hinted that the Greens were willing to go into coalition with FF, just not with Sargent as leader.
Throughout the general election the Green Party repeated the mantra that they were not ruling out coalition with anyone, even Sinn Fein. You may remember that FF and FG were ruling out coalition with SF. Meanwhile Labour were ruling out coalition with the PDs.
The Greens made it very clear they would accept whatever kind of coalition the election numbers gave.

Anyway, true to his word, as the negotiations for the programme for government were coming to a close, Sargent resigned as leader.

All seemed above-board and honest to me.

eoinmadden

Andrew H wrote: »

Green Party's negotiators admitted that the proposed Government programme was far from perfect from their point of view, with failures to secure movement on key issues like the use of Shannon Airport by the US military, the building of the M3 motorway through the Tara valley, and hospital co-location.

C'est la vie. That's democracy for you!
As I said, the Irish electorate seems to choose coalitions.

Liam Byrne

eoinmadden wrote: »

C'est la vie. That's democracy for you!

It might be democracy, but it's not what the people voted for.

Yes, there's always give-and-take in a coalition, but surely "key issues" and promises based on those should be a pre-requisite for signing up / getting into bed with another party ?

Side issues or "nice-to-haves", fair enough; but killing off the main 2 or 3 policies that encouraged people to vote for you ? :rolleyes:

eoinmadden

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Side issues or "nice-to-haves", fair enough; but killing off the main 2 or 3 policies that encouraged people to vote for you ?

Was Tara a key issue for you?
I, not surprisingly, gave my #1 to the Green Party, but Tara was not a key issue for me.
Key issues for me would have been measures to curb energy use and greater investment in renewable energy, both with a view to combating climate change while weaning Ireland off its dependence on foreign oil, for the sake of the economy.

Liam Byrne

Shannon was a key issue for me.

But regardless of what "my" key issues were, they put themselves forward based on those "key issues", and they sold out.

Anyways, this is becoming a side-topic; let's get back (or at least relate) to the main topic.

CtrlSource

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So you think that the we acted perfectly reasonably in accepting inflated prices and borrowing more money than we could ever hope to pay back?

I don't care whether you blame the greens or FF, but there is a certain thing called personal responsibility that we like to sweep under the carpet in Ireland.

It's like the spoilt little who ate too many sweets having and having a tummy ache blaming the sweetshop.

Indeed. People get so tetchy when politicians suggest we tighten our money belts. Why?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

CtrlSource wrote: »

Indeed. People get so tetchy when politicians suggest we tighten our money belts. Why?

.....the main reason ? Because they don't practice what they preach !!

We wouldn't get so tetchy if they did, and if they weren't the ones who wasted small fortunes on pointless things like useless e-Voting machines and PR consultants and make-up, and spending the price of a house doing up (not building, not buying - just "doing up") an office for a former questionable-if-not-actually-disgraced Taoiseach who's still earning a small fortune....not to mention all the others who have "pensions" while still "working" in the Dail !!!

And what's worse is it's all OUR money....... :mad:

CtrlSource

Liam Byrne wrote: »

.....the main reason ? Because they don't practice what they preach !!

We wouldn't get so tetchy if they did, and if they weren't the ones who wasted small fortunes on pointless things like useless e-Voting machines and PR consultants and make-up, and spending the price of a house doing up (not building, not buying - just "doing up") an office for a former questionable-if-not-actually-disgraced Taoiseach who's still earning a small fortune....not to mention all the others who have "pensions" while still "working" in the Dail !!!

And what's worse is it's all OUR money....... :mad:

So should they remain silent on it and just issue the odd press release about the state of the Economy?

e-voting was a good idea, badly handled and a lot of money was wasted to be sure. The make-up thing is a byproduct of the Media culture that politicians have to operate in to be honest. Nobody seems to know the full story about Bertie's new office. If it's in a bit of a state and needs doing up then that's okay with me. The amount seems excessive, but it depends on what they're going to do with it.

Regarding the salaries and pensions of Politicians - i'm firmly of the belief that if you pay them better, you will attract better people who would otherwise earn multiples of a TD's salary in the private sector instead. It's worth paying them well

thebman

I have to disagree, e-voting is just a bad idea. The system is inevitably vulnerable to hacking and once hacked, the person can much more easily rig a result than if all the votes were on paper. e-voting is great if you want to rig elections IMO.

I honestly don't see how its the tax payers job to do up the Taoiseach's office especially not our job to make it a palace for the man.

I disagree on your last point too. If you pay them lots, you attract greedy, selfish people. If you pay them sh*t, you get humble people that actually want to work for the good of the country. I wouldn't be against bonuses if they deliver their pre-election promises though.