GOOD FOOD - BAD FOOD

irishvibez

I want to start a thread on food, basically food that you thought was good for you but in fact you should probably stay away from. (likewise bad food)

Im talking about times when you think you are eating healty but in fact you couldnt be more wrong about it if you tried.

Food like:

• Cheese - which cheeses are best to eat? feta, brie, mozerlla etc?
• Whole wheat bread - (ie) Whole wheat from sub way ? waste of time?
• Wheat a bix, bran flakes etc - are these all fake cerals?
• Is fizzy water same as drinking any other soft drink?
• Also food patterns, stop eating after 8pm, does it work?
• Sugar free Jelly - is it ok to eat as a sweet snack?
• Dont get me started on fruit !!
• Takeaways at weekend - opt for breats of chicken curry no rice just veg OR pasta

Have you ever come across a food item that you thought was healthy but you learned better to stay away?

I think there are food out there that are sold as healthy low fat but in fact are rubbish, low fat yogurts, these new smoothie drinks etc etc

feel free to add

EileenG

I used to think rice cakes were a health food. They certainly taste as if they should be.

Cheese: I reckon anything with a proper name is fine. So Cheddar, Gouda, Stilton, St Agur, Roquefort, Ricotta, Manchego etc are all good. The ones I'd avoid are the processed ones like cheese slices. There are lots of different cheeses to suit different diets. Cottage cheese for low fat, Manchego for keto diets.

Bread: generally not a good use of calories. Wholegrain is better than white. Most subs and sandwiches do not use wholegrain, it's too dense and chewy.

Cereals: most box cereals are crap. As a general rule, if they have to add vitamins to it, it means it's rubbish. Porridge is the best one to go for. You can make a summer version by soaking the oats overnight in milk, then topping with some nuts or fruit.

Overall calories are what count, not the time you eat them. You are more likely to do mindless snacking in the evening, but planned meals are fine.

Sugarfree jelly is a dodgy one. Low cal snack. However, I find the aspartame in it makes me feel bad and want to binge. However, I make my own SF jelly using plain gelatin and other sweeteners and they are fine.

Takeaway: go for the highest protein option, and try to discard anything with unnecessary carbs or transfats.

Al_Fernz

irishvibez wrote: »

• Dont get me started on fruit !!

I'm unsure what you mean by this. I don't think there's too much people out there that have had their fitness goals held back by eating too much fruit.

Most fruits are good sources of vitamins, fibre and anti-oxidants. Also people say that fruits are full of sugar. But most of these are fructose and that does not cause insulin to rise rapidly. I know this because my Dad is a diabetic and we have tested his blood sugar levels after apples and oranges and they did not cause any significant spike.

Now if you are talking about dried fruits thats another matter entirely. His blood sugar rocketed from just having a handful of dried fruits - like apricots, prunes, raisins etc.:eek:

Hornd

Fructose cannot be used by muscle cells for glycogen replenishment. Therefore, when fructose is absorbed in the gut it is dealt with by the liver where one of two things happens: It is either converted into liver glycogen (which can then be released as glucose) or it is converted into fatty acids. If liver glycogen stores are not full then it will be converted mostly into liver glycogen but if liver glycogen stores are full, or there is an overabundance of fructose, it will be converted into fatty acids. On the other hand, glucose is the preferred substrate for muscle glycogen synthesis, so much of the glucose that is ingested may be absorbed by the muscle cells for muscle glycogen replenishment. If muscle glycogen stores are full, the glucose is not needed immediately by the muscles for fuel, or there is simply too much glucose in the blood stream, then the excess glucose will either be converted to fat or returned to the liver where it will either be converted to liver glycogen (if liver glycogen is low) or converted to fatty acids (if liver glycogen is high). Incidently, this is how sugars - particularly fructose - so effectively raise blood triglyceride levels. If both the muscles and the liver are slow to utilize this glucose, or cannot absorb an overabundance of it, then the fat cells will absorb it, convert it into fat and store it.

So, what we have is fructose is useless as far as replenishing muscle glycogen stores is concerned, but is capable of replenishing liver glycogen. Glucose is superior for muscle glycogen replenishment and any excess will go towards liver glycogen replenishment - if needed. If all glycogen stores are replenished (muscles and liver) then excess glucose will be converted to fatty acids. And flooding your system at anytime with large amounts of any carbohydrates will result in fat production and storage. Now here's the practical part:

The muscles of a 154 pound male athlete can store about 400 grams of glycogen and the liver about 90 grams. If you depleted some of this by exercising then your body would be in need of enough glucose to replenish both of these stores of glycogen. If you ate only fructose as the carbohydrate portion of your post-workout meal you'd only replenish liver glycogen and leave your muscles starving for glucose. In addition, the liver can only make glycogen out of about 50 grams of fructose at a time, so any more than this and you're just producing fat and probably giving yourself diarrhea. On the other hand, if you used glucose as your post-workout carb source you'd replenish both muscle and liver glycogen (with muscle glycogen being replenished first) and, because both the muscles and liver were utilizing it, you could eat much more of it without worrying about storing fat. The moral of the story is not to go crazy on products sweetened with fructose (after training ...or anytime for that matter) and not to rely excessively on fruit as your post-workout carb source (most ripe fruits are high in fructose - hence the name fructose).

Am I saying that fruits are bad? NO!! They're full of vitamins, enzymes, soluble fiber and probably hosts of things we haven't even discovered yet. But for fueling workouts and while on a fat loss diet, they're probably not something you want to load up on.

Incidently, sucrose (table sugar) is made from one molecule of glucose connected to one molecule of fructose. It has been suspected that this is why table sugar makes people fat - it is half fructose, and the other half (glucose) rapidly raises insulin levels - the perfect fat promoting molecule.

leesmom

whats wrong with weetabix?

mack1

leesmom wrote: »

whats wrong with weetabix?

Same as most other cereals in colourful boxes - sugar!

Malteaser!

mack1 wrote: »

Same as most other cereals in colourful boxes - sugar!

It's hardly jam packed with sugar now. I don't have much time atm but from a really quick search: Check out the difference between the sugar content in Weetabix to that of something like Bran Flakes...pretty big difference there!!

EileenG

leesmom wrote: »

whats wrong with weetabix?

Processed beyond recognition. Bears as much resemblance to wheat as fruit winders do to apples.

Hanley

EileenG wrote: »

Processed beyond recognition. Bears as much resemblance to wheat as fruit winders do to apples.

'splain...??

According to the nutritional information it's 95% wheat...

EileenG

Hanley wrote: »

'splain...??

According to the nutritional information it's 95% wheat...

And according to the label, fruit winders are about 80% apples. You'd never know it by looking at or eating one.

Weetabix had been ground and cooked and shaped and otherwise tortured to extend its shelf life and make it tasty good with milk. It bears no resemblance to actual wheat. If you look at porridge oats, you can see that they are a grain, and can often see what they looked like before being ground and husked. Weetabix could be made from cardboard for all you could tell from looking at them.

Hanley

EileenG wrote: »

And according to the label, fruit winders are about 80% apples. You'd never know it by looking at or eating one.

Weetabix had been ground and cooked and shaped and otherwise tortured to extend its shelf life and make it tasty good with milk. It bears no resemblance to actual wheat. If you look at porridge oats, you can see that they are a grain, and can often see what they looked like before being ground and husked. Weetabix could be made from cardboard for all you could tell from looking at them.

But why does that make them bad? I'm genuinely curious.

If they're still mostly non-sugar carbs with a good dose of fibre, it can't be THAT bad.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

But why does that make them bad? I'm genuinely curious.

If they're still mostly non-sugar carbs with a good dose of fibre, it can't be THAT bad.

Try eating them dry when you're drunk. Very bad

corkcomp

Hanley wrote: »

But why does that make them bad? I'm genuinely curious.

If they're still mostly non-sugar carbs with a good dose of fibre, it can't be THAT bad.

IMO weetabix are fine, you only need to look at the ingredients to see that...

just reading thru this thread with great interest! I reckon a lot of the low / no carb advice posted on the fitness forum could be genuinely misleading readers .. Personally i have dropped from 17St to 12St over the last 2 years by cutting out soft drinks, junk food like breakfast rolls etc and going to the gym *5 every week ... The average person does not need to cut out carbs like weetabix or porridge (or whole grains, fruit etc) to get good results ...

corkcomp

Degsy

corkcomp wrote: »

IMO weetabix are fine, you only need to look at the ingredients to see that...

just reading thru this thread with great interest! I reckon a lot of the low / no carb advice posted on the fitness forum could be genuinely misleading readers .. Personally i have dropped from 17St to 12St over the last 2 years by cutting out soft drinks, junk food like breakfast rolls etc and going to the gym *5 every week ... The average person does not need to cut out carbs like weetabix or porridge (or whole grains, fruit etc) to get good results ...

corkcomp

True.the average person is fat because they're eating too much of the wrong things too often and not burning the calories up in some way.Most "fat" people eat lots of sweets,cakes,junk foods,fizzy drinks or beer,sometimes a combination of everything.My own fatness is due to my fondness for the occasional vat of beer at the weekends.

rubadub

irishvibez wrote: »

basically food that you thought was good for you but in fact you should probably stay away from.

There is also the high/low in calories too which makes people big. i.e. they could be fat from unknowingly eating massive portions of "good" food.

There is no secret what is in food, the info is on the packets, then you have to figure out your portion size. I have been reading nutritional info on packs since I was around 10, so nothing really surprises me, some may read them but not take into account portion sizes.

A person in the nutrition forum talked of drinking a litre of low fat milk per day wanting to be low carb. Many are shocked to even know milk has sugar in it (not added natural lactose), most skim milk has more "carbs of which sugar" than full sugar Lilt. Also people do not think of milk as a food, they do not realise the portions. 1 litre of milk is around 1kilo, is there any other food you eat a kilo of?

This is wikipedias info on milk.
Cow milk (whole)
Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Energy 60 kcal 250 kJ
Carbohydrates 5.2 g
- Sugars 5.2 g
- Lactose 5.2 g
Fat 3.25 g
- saturated 1.9 g
- monounsaturated 0.8 g
- polyunsaturated 0.2 g
Protein 3.2 g
Water 88 g

It depends on what cows are fed. Protein content in Ireland will vary during the year depending on feed, coffee baristas know this, as frothy milk depends greatly on protein content, you can actually buy special cappucino milk.

You can see 88% is water, so if you were to dry out the milk you have 12% by weight mixture of fat/protein/sugar. So 1 litre of milk has 120g of dry substance in it, this is a lot considering a quoted portion of porridge oat flakes is only 30g, to be mixed with water, and the oats are probably less kcal per gram than the dried milk.

People say leave out bread when trying to lose fat since it is carbs, I would be more concerned about the portion size too. A burger has around the same kcal as the bun, but a lot would presume the burger is the "bad" bit that makes you fat. I could easily eat a half sliced pan which is 400g, and around 900kcal, I would have a harder time eating 900kcal worth of chicken or veg though.

I see people in work trying to lose weight but completely ignorant of calories, switching from a breakfast roll to a yoghurt, pack of noodles, apple, orange, they can be eating more calories than what they were already!. Some instant noodles are over 600kcal per pack! and people eat that along with other stuff.

Money Shot

Weetabix with milk in the morning is far more preferable than no breakfast at all.

As said above, whether it's cooked or otherwise, the nutritional information on the side is fact, and it's make up doesn't read too bad. It has enough positives to counteract the negatives of being processed and containing tiny amounts of added sugars and salt.

I'd be very wary of calling any foods bad full stop. The most important thing is moderation and balance and then adapting that to your particular goals. It's practically impossible to avoid eating some food that has been processed and is without some sort of additives. In that case, you would also avoid whey protein.

CerebralCortex

leesmom wrote: »

whats wrong with weetabix?

I'm curious as to why it gives me such an ugly heartburn??

rubadub

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I'm curious as to why it gives me such an ugly heartburn??

That is odd, have you ruled out the milk? Some people can have acid in the stomach in the morning, especially if out boozing, milk will then coagulate in your stomach and make you feel sick.

CerebralCortex

rubadub wrote: »

That is odd, have you ruled out the milk? Some people can have acid in the stomach in the morning, especially if out boozing, milk will then coagulate in your stomach and make you feel sick.

I don't drink for a start, I take milk with other things and don't suffer, but man do I get heartburn when I eat wheatabix. Maybe it has to do with quantity? I eat like 3 biscuits at a time.

rubadub

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't drink for a start, I take milk with other things and don't suffer, but man do I get heartburn when I eat wheatabix. Maybe it has to do with quantity? I eat like 3 biscuits at a time.

3 is normal enough, I think they quote 2 as a serving, but they usually quote small portions so foods appear low in calories, porridge is 30-35g serving usually, museli is too, and that much museli barely covers the bottom of a bowl. This is a big thing to watch for, and why people should wiegh food.

That is nothing to do with your heartburn but more for this thread.

Could it possbily be a wheat allergy? I would have though starchy cereals would be more likely to actually relieve heartburn than cause it. weetabix is one of the better options of the usual branded standard cereals out there, many would think some like bran flakes are better, but they have way more added sugar. Sugar puffs are something like 49% sugar! and give you the dreaded condition of sugar puff piss

tattykitty

One thing to be wary of in processed cereals in salt - most of them contain a surprising amount. I have a real weakness for cereals (could eat them for every meal) but try to stick to shredded wheat bitesize - it's still processed, but at least there's nothing else added. I usually soak it in skimmed milk and hide it under a banana.

Weetabix - fantastic dry, especially covered in margarine! My mum used to take them to school when she was little. Yum.

Food I thought was good but is in fact a lot more fattening - granola. Delicious and probably full of good stuff, but usually made with oils, and thus eating a big bowl of it can rack up rather a lot of fat and calories. We all need a little fat and "good" oil in our diet, and I agree - everything in moderation - but it can be easy to unwittingly load up on fats and salt that has found its way into what we deem healthy.

Also all those processed cereal bars and Special K snacks - they're always trumpeting about how "healthy" they are, but they have a list of ingredients as long as your arm and still contain a surprisingly high amount of fat for something that usually weighs (and tastes of) hardly anything. I tend to check the length of ingredients on most things now, and figure the fewer the better.

I remain a fiend for delicious Innocent Smoothies, despite all the 'natural sugars' that will probably rot my teeth.

Money Shot

CerebralCortex wrote: »

but man do I get heartburn when I eat wheatabix. Maybe it has to do with quantity? I eat like 3 biscuits at a time.

Why do you continue to eat weetabix ? If something gave me bad heartburn everytime I ate it, I would quickly make the decision that it's not great for my body and stop eating it.

Khannie

Weetabix are a surprisingly high GI food (at least I was surpised when I discovered their GI a while back). Just checked two sites there: 75 and 74 are the values I found.

irishvibez

Sorry to change the subject a little BUT.

Whats people opinions on this:

Sirloin steak with peppers, mushrooms and onions, fat trimmed off the steak and no sauces added just pepper corns?

Is that a fairly good meal ?

CerebralCortex

Money Shot wrote: »

Why do you continue to eat weetabix ? If something gave me bad heartburn everytime I ate it, I would quickly make the decision that it's not great for my body and stop eating it.

I have stopped. I haven't eaten them in a while now. I eat kelkin muesli now which is nice.

CerebralCortex

tattykitty wrote: »

I remain a fiend for delicious Innocent Smoothies, despite all the 'natural sugars' that will probably rot my teeth.

Could be coke your drinking.

Al_Fernz

irishvibez wrote: »

Whats people opinions on this:

Sirloin steak with peppers, mushrooms and onions, fat trimmed off the steak and no sauces added just pepper corns?

Is that a fairly good meal ?

I'd hit that.:D

irishvibez

Al_Fernz wrote: »

I'd hit that.:D

LMFAO

Johnny Storm

tattykitty wrote: »

...Weetabix - fantastic dry, especially covered in margarine! ....

hunnymonster

I'm often amazed when people say "I wouldn't eat that because it's processed", the other one is "it's full of chemicals". Processing isn't inherently bad (e.g. pasteurisation of milk) and EVERYTHING is a chemical. Granted a lot of processing does reduce the quality of food in terms of it's nutritional content but what I'm trying to say is that you've got to look a bit closer, read the nutritional labels. For example, some people here think I'm insane with the amount of carbs I eat, but I'm working out aerobically for 2-8 hours a day. I can't do that with protein and fat.

t-ha

irishvibez wrote: »

Whats people opinions on this:

Sirloin steak with peppers, mushrooms and onions, fat trimmed off the steak and no sauces added just pepper corns?

Man I could go for about three of those right about now...

yeah 'tis all good stuff. Wouldn't neccessarily have steak for every meal of every day though of course.

Tar.Aldarion

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I have stopped. I haven't eaten them in a while now. I eat kelkin muesli now which is nice.

It tastes fantastic. Power to you Kelkin.

cozmik

Khannie wrote: »

Weetabix are a surprisingly high GI food (at least I was surpised when I discovered their GI a while back). Just checked two sites there: 75 and 74 are the values I found.

The 2nd and 3rd added ingredients are to blame for that.

Wholegrain Wheat (95%), Malted Barley Extract, Sugar,Salt, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Folic Acid.

The Glycemic Load for a 37g serving (two Weetabix) works out at 20 which is also in the high end.

For anyone concerned about the GI just include some healthy fats + protein with the weetabix and you'll instantly lower the GI.

Hanley

sonx wrote: »

aren't you lucky you have food to eat unlike most of the world get a grip!

Aren't YOU lucky that you have the internet?

Roper

sonx wrote: »

aren't you lucky you have food to eat unlike most of the world get a grip!

And what's your point? That eating whatever comes your way will cure world hunger? Low GI foods cause famine?


Why don't you point that activist energy beam you have somewhere useful...

How Strange

sonx wrote: »

I mean't we should appreciate food, I'm sick of everyone banging on about this and that being bad for you, I have a vast knowledge of it given the field of work I'm in. But I think all the add campaigns and every individual now is obsessed with food and all the bad things it can do to you, eat it, enjoy it and shut up.

If this thread offends you then log off. For most of us it's informative and helpful.

Hornd

While your talking about the GI of weetabix, i checked my blood sugar levels after pure oats and 2 eggs and it went from 4.9 to 7.6 which is quite high i thought. I had read that oats arn't actually that low GI so i wanted to confirm.

Khannie

Hornd wrote: »

I had read that oats arn't actually that low GI so i wanted to confirm.

It does depend on the oats. There's a surprising amount of reading available on such a simple grain.

Hornd

Standard Bunalun Organic Oats?

dory

I never know which is preferable - to start a new thread on the same thing, or bring up an old one. I think this is a really good thread anyway, I'm sure it'll benefit someone.

My question is about smoothies. Everything I've read on the boards has been either about home made ones , or ones found on a supermarket shelf. I'm talking about ones in juice bars where you get three fruit, low fat yoghurt and a juice. They just seem too good to be true, and I don't see many fitness fanatics at my gym drinking them (they are on sale there).
My main aim is to get fit/lose weight. Will these aid or hinder my progress? Basically would like to know if even low fat yoghurt is laden with calories!

EDIT: I know the price is why some people think they're stupid, I think paying €5 for a pint is craziness though.....

RoosterIllusion

corkcomp wrote: »

I reckon a lot of the low / no carb advice posted on the fitness forum could be genuinely misleading readers .. Personally i have dropped from 17St to 12St over the last 2 years by cutting out soft drinks, junk food like breakfast rolls etc and going to the gym *5 every week ... The average person does not need to cut out carbs like weetabix or porridge (or whole grains, fruit etc) to get good results ...

corkcomp

I can see where your coming from. This is not an attack directed against you or anything like that, I just want to clear up a few things.

Firstly, any "no carb" advice is bad advice. Carbohydrates are fuel.

Secondly, "low carb" advice is given because most people have a problem with not doing enough exercise and/or eating too much carbs, or eating the wrong type of carbs, or eating them at the wrong times, or all of the above.

Eating weetabix as part of a balanced diet is not bad. I will not say it is good because I do not regularly eat weetabix so I can't comment on how they make me feel. Eating grass as part of a balanced diet is not bad. Eating unbleached kitchen paper as part of a balanced diet is not bad. The important thing to note is that a balanced diet is the key!

You can eat a balanced diet and never work out and lose weight.

Telling people that you have lost 5 stone indicates that you managed to lose weight, not that you are a healthy person. The same applies to me of course. I lost 8 stone (23-->15) when I changed my diet, I did not change a single thing about my exercise program.

corkcomp

RoosterIllusion wrote: »

I can see where your coming from. This is not an attack directed against you or anything like that, I just want to clear up a few things.

Firstly, any "no carb" advice is bad advice. Carbohydrates are fuel.

Secondly, "low carb" advice is given because most people have a problem with not doing enough exercise and/or eating too much carbs, or eating the wrong type of carbs, or eating them at the wrong times, or all of the above.

Eating weetabix as part of a balanced diet is not bad. I will not say it is good because I do not regularly eat weetabix so I can't comment on how they make me feel. Eating grass as part of a balanced diet is not bad. Eating unbleached kitchen paper as part of a balanced diet is not bad. The important thing to note is that a balanced diet is the key!

You can eat a balanced diet and never work out and lose weight.

Telling people that you have lost 5 stone indicates that you managed to lose weight, not that you are a healthy person. The same applies to me of course. I lost 8 stone (23-->15) when I changed my diet, I did not change a single thing about my exercise program.

im not sure what your point is exactly but it doesnt make a lot of sense TBH. It is NOT okay to eat grass or kitchen paper, balanced diet or not .. that would be just stupid, lol! I dont remember making any claims about my general health aside from weight loss, but seeing as you brought it up a recent FULL blood workup would suggest that my health is good so i have no real concerns ... I might give the old kitchen towel a skip though

EileenG

dory wrote: »

My question is about smoothies. Everything I've read on the boards has been either about home made ones , or ones found on a supermarket shelf. I'm talking about ones in juice bars where you get three fruit, low fat yoghurt and a juice. They just seem too good to be true, and I don't see many fitness fanatics at my gym drinking them (they are on sale there).
My main aim is to get fit/lose weight. Will these aid or hinder my progress? Basically would like to know if even low fat yoghurt is laden with calories!

EDIT: I know the price is why some people think they're stupid, I think paying €5 for a pint is craziness though.....

The smoothies in juice bars are very heavy on high-gi fruits and juices. Yes, they are low fat, but they pack an amazing amount of calories in a single glass, and don't really provide that much nutrition. My personal recommendation would be to buy and eat those three fruits and a pot of yogurt. You'll get more fibre, and feel like you've had a lot more food.

And yes, low fat yogurt is usually filled with sugar and sweeteners, so it's not great. Fat is not your enemy when you are dieting, you need some for good health. You'd be better with a full fat natural yogurt than a low fat one with added sugar.

Hanley

RoosterIllusion wrote: »

Carbohydrates are fuel.

No, calories are fuel. It just happens carbs are the easiest to use as a convertable fuel source. Which is also the reason the excess tends to be stored as fat easier.

It's perfectly workable to exist on a low carb diet, once it's done gradually. Your body will adjust to it. Of course this also depends on your definition of "low carb". For me, it's <150g. I can quite easily lose weight on that amount. For others, it might be <30g.

As for the rest of your post.... grass and kitchen paper? Wtf....??

taram

dory wrote: »

My question is about smoothies. Everything I've read on the boards has been either about home made ones , or ones found on a supermarket shelf. I'm talking about ones in juice bars where you get three fruit, low fat yoghurt and a juice. They just seem too good to be true, and I don't see many fitness fanatics at my gym drinking them (they are on sale there).
My main aim is to get fit/lose weight. Will these aid or hinder my progress? Basically would like to know if even low fat yoghurt is laden with calories!

The problem with smoothies are that they ususally focus on high sweetness fruits (berries/oranges/pineapple) rather than healthier home options like carrots, celery and apples. Low fat yoghurt is low in fat calories, but v.high in sugar, higher than normal frozen yoghurt most of the time. I find drinking juice never fills me up and is just empty calories, if I crave orange juice I'll cut it and suck the juice off it and little, then eat the flesh, fills me up more and cuts out calories, you could easily drink a big pint of juice/smoothie without it impacting your brain into thinking it's fuller.