Wiggle - Price Increases & Product Restrictions

MadHatter

Was browsing round Wiggle yesterday look at a few bits and pieces. They've re-designed the website so you can pick your currency and destination at the top of each page. When I changed the destination to "Irish Republic" the list price of each product changed. Thought it was odd as it wasn't like this on the old site.

Anyhow, I email wiggle sales and after a few mails back and forth I get a mail from the finance director. Turns out they've exceeded the VAT threshold for importing into Ireland and they must now register for VAT with Revenue and charged Irish VAT of 21% (rather than UK 17.5%). Hence the increase in prices.

Also - and this will comes as a big shock to the focus fanboys on here - it appears they no longer ship Focus bikes to Ireland. They do ship other brands of bikes, but if you change you're destination to "Irish Republic" and go to say, road bikes, you'll see no Focus bikes listed.

TinyExplosions

MadHatter wrote: »

Also - and this will comes as a big shock to the focus fanboys on here - it appears they no longer ship Focus bikes to Ireland. They do ship other brands of bikes, but if you change you're destination to "Irish Republic" and go to say, road bikes, you'll see no Focus bikes listed.

F**k the VAT thing, what's going on with Focus! Does that mean there's going to be a new distributer in Ireland or what?

unionman

Man, I can't forking believe this! Just as I am about to order a Focus Cayo (subject to having the funds available tomorrow). I was just on the site and came back to post a new thread along the lines of 'this can't be right can it?'

Brilliant. Oh god this hurts.

blorg

On the plus side they now do free delivery to Ireland with no minimum spend.

TinyExplosions

unionman wrote: »

Man, I can't forking believe this! Just as I am about to order a Focus Cayo (subject to having the funds available tomorrow). I was just on the site and came back to post a new thread along the lines of 'this can't be right can it?'

Brilliant. Oh god this hurts.

Have sent them an email to try and clarify, so let's try not to panic!

Caroline_ie

That's classic ... I am not surprised this happening.

PeadarofAodh

I was on there today myself - was told they wouldn't ship chain cleaner to the republic. Also went through their stock, spent a good 30/45 mins (instead of working...) building up a purchasing list in my 'wishlist'. Went back to it 5 mins later and..."Your wishlist is empty". Baxtards.

Having emailed them on previous occasions I don't find them particularly friendly or helpful either.

unionman

blorg wrote: »

On the plus side they now do free delivery to Ireland with no minimum spend.

Mmmmm, spoken like a man who already owns a Cayo. I wanted to be one of those.:(

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Have sent them an email to try and clarify, so let's try not to panic!

Yeah, me too, though I have to admit I'm not feeling optimistic.:(

Caroline_ie wrote: »

That's classic ... I am not surprised this happening.

Why not surprised? (I'm flabbergasted:(:(:(:()

Chips Lovell

MadHatter wrote: »

Turns out they've exceeded the VAT threshold for importing into Ireland and they must now register for VAT with Revenue and charged Irish VAT of 21% (rather than UK 17.5%). Hence the increase in prices.

Very interesting. I wasn't aware of this at all. I'd always thought you could sell as much as you liked online to other countries in the EU and charge your own rate of VAT.

MadHatter wrote: »

Also - and this will comes as a big shock to the focus fanboys on here - it appears they no longer ship Focus bikes to Ireland. They do ship other brands of bikes, but if you change you're destination to "Irish Republic" and go to say, road bikes, you'll see no Focus bikes listed.

You see this from time to time and it usually has to do with distribution agreements. Some sites seem more strict about enforcing them than others, or maybe they have gotten different terms from the manufacturer. Sounds like Focus may have found an Irish distributor. If so, mightn't work out too well for them given the main attraction was their pricing. With the usual Irish markups attached I'm wondering if they're going to do as well.

MadHatter

el tonto wrote: »

Very interesting. I wasn't aware of this at all. I'd always thought you could sell as much as you liked online to other countries in the EU and charge your own rate of VAT.

I thought this too. But I when I got the mail explaining the change in pricing I googled it and found this from Revenue.

http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/vat_foreign_suppliers.htm

An upper limit of €35,000 - after that you must register for Irish VAT

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

You see this from time to time and it usually has to do with distribution agreements. Some sites seem more strict about enforcing them than others, or maybe they have gotten different terms from the manufacturer. Sounds like Focus may have found an Irish distributor. If so, mightn't work out too well for them given the main attraction was their pricing. With the usual Irish markups attached I'm wondering if they're going to do as well.

That's why I suspect a change of Distributor -though on the Focus website, it does say that Wiggle are the sole supplier to the UK and Ireland...

Maybe it's time to get a Northern Irish PO Box?

BUACHAILL

yeah a Northern Po Box if your looking for a Focus. I think for ordering anything else its not a huge increase paying the VAT increase and you get free shipping as mentioned. still works out better than Irish prices

unionman

TinyExplosions wrote: »

That's why I suspect a change of Distributor -though on the Focus website, it does say that Wiggle are the sole supplier to the UK and Ireland...

Maybe it's time to get a Northern Irish PO Box?

Time to talk to friends up north about taking delivery of a bicycle?

DirkVoodoo

Are they still comptetive with the new pricing?

unionman

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Are they still comptetive with the new pricing?

Well, the Cayo is more or less the same, but then they're not shipping here so the VAT rate probably isn't applied.

This sucks.:mad:

blorg

PeadarofAodh wrote: »

I was on there today myself - was told they wouldn't ship chain cleaner to the republic. Also went through their stock, spent a good 30/45 mins (instead of working...) building up a purchasing list in my 'wishlist'. Went back to it 5 mins later and..."Your wishlist is empty". Baxtards.

I presume you were trying to buy an aerosol chain cleaner? They won't ship them, it is something to do with airline regulations. I had that issue but I've bought Park Tool citrus chain cleaner and Fenwicks FS1 from them recently no problem. They are having a few issues with their site since they redesigned- I imagine that is what happened to your wishlist. Personally I was very annoyed to see they had only 1 Gore Waterproof jacket left- happened to be my size, 75% or something off, ordered it and got an email this morning to say unfortunately they didn't have it after all. Gave me a voucher for a fiver by way of apology but I would have preferred the jacket!

Regarding their response to emails, I'd say they are flooded with the redesign issues. They are generally very responsive and have great customer service, just recently their prices have shot up (unrelated to the VAT issue) to the point they are rarely cheaper then CRC/PBK unless they have a monster discount on something.

el tonto wrote: »

Very interesting. I wasn't aware of this at all. I'd always thought you could sell as much as you liked online to other countries in the EU and charge your own rate of VAT.

No, if you export over the VAT registration threshold into another EU country you must register for VAT there- the limit is actually quite low, €70,000 per year. Amazon changed this a fair few years ago. TBH I suspect there are a lot of sellers over the €70,000 sales in Ireland who maybe just don't realise they have to do this. The Irish Revenue have become more proactive in pursuing foreign companies with regard to VAT registration I believe. I would be gobsmacked if CRC was not obliged to register but they probably just don't realise (or are ignoring it.)

You see this from time to time and it usually has to do with distribution agreements. Some sites seem more strict about enforcing them than others, or maybe they have gotten different terms from the manufacturer. Sounds like Focus may have found an Irish distributor. If so, mightn't work out too well for them given the main attraction was their pricing. With the usual Irish markups attached I'm wondering if they're going to do as well.

I'm pissed off at this too, was thinking of buying another Focus bike myself at the end of the summer if the prices on the 2008 models came down. Might have to find someone in the North to take delivery! I've seen a lot of Focus bikes about on the roads and I agree their sales will not do well here if they have the typical Irish mark-up.

MadHatter

blorg wrote: »

just recently their prices have shot up (unrelated to the VAT issue) to the point they are rarely cheaper then CRC/PBK unless they have a monster discount on something.

Agreed. Their list prices can a bit hit and miss at times. A pump I was looking at recently would cost me €23.72 with the £50+ discount. I picked it up last Sat in CycleSuperStore for €22.95.

But when they discount the list price of a product there can be good bargins.

kenmc

Stupid plonkers. The new site looks crap, and now they're trying to shaft us as well. I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult for revenue to track down which products come from Wiggle in the post, especially if they remove the sticker from the box. All it serves them is that I, and I suspect many people, will order less from them.
As for the focus bikes, WTF? I was looking at ordering one of them probably in sept/oct, when the new stock comes in. Can't understand it. Talk about alienating your customers, and killing the golden goose! Muppets.

Chips Lovell

So, if Focus is no longer an option, I'm wondering what brand is going to be the next "Boards value bike".

unionman

el tonto wrote: »

So, if Focus is no longer an option, I'm wondering what brand is going to be the next "Boards value bike".

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing whatever might emerge, because I am back to the drawing board now.

kenmc

planetX probably?

TinyExplosions

I really can't see Focus being completely unavailable over here, it's got to be a glitch, or new distributer or something, so don't go jumping off the Focus bandwaggon yet folks

kenmc

ah yeah but at what price? If there's an irish distributor that means they'll be available in say Cycleways or Cyclogical or something - cue 50% markup. They're no longer great value at that price.
edit: I emailed http://www.focus-bikes.de/ (via their contact link) asking them who the distributor in ireland was, saying that wiggle used supply to ireland but now don't, and if an irish distributor has now taken over they won't sell so many bikes in ireland at the prices charged by the shops here. Will see what they come back with, if at all. Worth a shot.

Chips Lovell

Canyon Roadlite 4.0? Aluminium frame, Ritchey carbon forks, 105 and Aksiums. €849 and shipping apparently is €35

fish-head

That's a steal!

unionman

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I really can't see Focus being completely unavailable over here, it's got to be a glitch, or new distributer or something, so don't go jumping off the Focus bandwaggon yet folks

I've received an email from Wiggle to say it's a glitch.

Watch this space.

TinyExplosions

unionman wrote: »

I've received an email from Wiggle to say it's a glitch.

Watch this space.

Not suprising -could be that the filter was meant for US, or other European desinations, and is applied to Ireland by mistake

kenmc

unionman wrote: »

I've received an email from Wiggle to say it's a glitch.

Watch this space.

Phew!

Chips Lovell

Sounds like half the people on here were planning on upgrading to a carbon Focus?

blorg

kenmc wrote: »

Stupid plonkers. The new site looks crap, and now they're trying to shaft us as well. I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult for revenue to track down which products come from Wiggle in the post, especially if they remove the sticker from the box. All it serves them is that I, and I suspect many people, will order less from them.

It's a legal requirement and I don't blame them for following the law. Once you get to a certain size it becomes impractical to try to scoot around this sort of stuff. The EU law was changed in this regard a few years ago to stop all online companies registering in Luxembourg.

TinyExplosions

Thank you for your email.

We do actually send Focus bikes to Ireland but unfortunately there is a glitch with our website which we are trying to sort out.

If you want to place an order the best thing to do is to enter our postcode PO6 3TU na the delivery country as the UK. This will get your order to us.
In the order notes please put the full correct delivery address so that we can then amend this at this end.
Many thanks

-from Wiggle

Hungrycol

I was keeping my eye on an Assos Guilet on Wiggle until the new site (and VAT) bumped up the price :mad: I was just waiting for the second mortgage to be approved so I could buy it, now I have to sell the car too!

penexpers

How much have the prices gone up by? Wouldn't have thought an increase in 3.5% on the VAT would make too much difference? Should be an extra 2.97 per 100 GBP

blorg

penexpers wrote: »

How much have the prices gone up by? Wouldn't have thought an increase in 3.5% on the VAT would make too much difference? Should be an extra 2.97 per 100 GBP

Yes, it's around that, not a lot- but Wiggle have increased their prices in general a few months ago.

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

Sounds like half the people on here were planning on upgrading to a carbon Focus?

I was thinking of one of their mountain bikes, although if the Izalco Team with SRAM Red was heavily discounted in my size at the end of the summer I would find it difficult to hold back... Had that on order in March-April but was waiting over a month and needed a bike for the Wicklow 200 and the run-up events.

Focus need to do a fixie I reckon.

Hungrycol

penexpers wrote: »

How much have the prices gone up by? Wouldn't have thought an increase in 3.5% on the VAT would make too much difference? Should be an extra 2.97 per 100 GBP

Admittedly yes it hasn't gone up THAT much but it's an increase nonetheless. I've been hoping it'd come down in price. Ho hum.

CRC's next I bet unless there's some north - south agreement in there somewhere, cross boarder cooperation and all that.

stuf

Between gold discount and the £50+ discount there are still great prices to be had.

I've just ordered a toolkit which probably weighs 3kg and they ship it for free - not many British retailers engage with the Irish market like wiggle do and it's a testament to their good practice that they've done enough business to go over the vat threshold.

Saying that I bought a cassette on chain reaction last night because it was a few quid cheaper.

kenmc - you can't really expect a business like Wiggle to commit tax fraud for your benefit can you?

unionman

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Thank you for your email.

We do actually send Focus bikes to Ireland but unfortunately there is a glitch with our website which we are trying to sort out.

If you want to place an order the best thing to do is to enter our postcode PO6 3TU na the delivery country as the UK. This will get your order to us.
In the order notes please put the full correct delivery address so that we can then amend this at this end.
Many thanks

-from Wiggle

Yep, same note I got.:D

blorg

stuf wrote: »

Between gold discount and the £50+ discount there are still great prices to be had.

I have the platinum discount (which would give you an idea of how much I buy from them) and honestly unless something is already heavily discounted they are rarely the cheapest any more. Those discounts only kick in if the thing isn't already discounted in any case!

This is only in recent months, but everything I have been comparing (cassette, mudguards, track pump off the top of my head) has been cheaper on CRC/PBK, even with all the discounts taken into consideration.

Wiggle do still have bargains but it's more on individual products (like they feature on their Monday specials) and end of line stuff (price drop category) rather than across their entire stock line. The dropping of the £50 minimum spend should see me hoovering up a fair few more of these.

stuf

blorg wrote: »

The dropping of the £50 minimum spend should see me hoovering up a fair few more of these.

Never noticed the £50 - all you had to do for free delivery was remove priority shipping from the order - things still shipped within the day anyway

blorg

This is very possible, I never tried that but always presumed it was over £50 as they say: "Free delivery is available to every country that wiggle deliver to although each country outside of the UK has its own minimum spend to qualify for free delivery" (used to mention free delivery to Europe over £50 and included Ireland in that list.) They only mention free delivery to the UK - but others have told me recently that there has been no minimum for Ireland before (I think they see it as part of the UK ) and fair enough I tried it with a £5 pair of gloves and it worked!

kenmc

stuf wrote: »

kenmc - you can't really expect a business like Wiggle to commit tax fraud for your benefit can you?

Hardly for my benefit to be honest, more for theirs, if they want sales. Now it means that places like CRC and PBK etc become even more competitive, what with Wiggle increasing their base prices, and then changing the vat rate for irish-shipped goods. Now that they've dropped the (debated) minumum 50quid order, there's no need to pad the order up to 50 anymore, so it's only for stuff that they're cheaper on that I'll use them, whereas before I'd take for example 3 things they were cheaper on, and take a slight hit on something that they were a bit more expensive than CRC on to get the 50 quid.

blorg

My method generally involves doing up a spreadsheet that lists all the possible variants I could be possibly interested in, and then listing the prices across Wiggle, CRC, PBK and anyone else I can find via bikepimp.co.uk - I then factor in postage, few more formulas, and I am done.

I then sit on it, undecided on the tiniest minor detail, until CRC (who are cheapest) or occasionally PBK runs out of stock. Thankfully both have email stock alert systems.

I am still looking for the aforementioned cassette, mudguards and track pump!

This costs me months but saves me as much as £3 (and at least 50p.)

I am going to get started on the process with some tyres next, I expect I'll have them for the autumn.

stuf

blorg wrote: »

My method generally involves doing up a spreadsheet that lists all the possible variants I could be possibly interested in, and then listing the prices across Wiggle, CRC, PBK and anyone else I can find via bikepimp.co.uk - I then factor in postage, few more formulas, and I am done.

I then sit on it, undecided on the tiniest minor detail, until CRC (who are cheapest) or occasionally PBK runs out of stock. Thankfully both have email stock alert systems.

I am still looking for the aforementioned cassette, mudguards and track pump!

This costs me months but saves me as much as £3 (and at least 50p.)

I am going to get started on the process with some tyres next, I expect I'll have them for the autumn.

You should sell those spread sheets at €1 a go

cantalach

MadHatter wrote: »

Turns out they've exceeded the VAT threshold for importing into Ireland and they must now register for VAT with Revenue and charged Irish VAT of 21% (rather than UK 17.5%). Hence the increase in prices.

That's crazy. I thought we were supposed to be able to purchase goods from another member state and pay only the taxes and duties applying in that state. Which part of 'single market' does the Irish Revenue Commissioners not understand?

liamtinney

If you want cheap bikes Trek and Giant can be bought up north for less than Irish shop's can buy them from there suppliers, You can buy a Trek 1.7 for about €950 or a Giant SCR 3 for about €600, TCR advanced for €4300, try Roe Valley Cycles in Limavady You might have to call in in person, but there is massive savings to be made in the north,

penexpers

Looks like they have fixed the Focus glitch.

unionman

penexpers wrote: »

Looks like they have fixed the Focus glitch.

Yeah, happy days. Finally placing my order for the Cayo:D

Chips Lovell

unionman wrote: »

Yeah, happy days. Finally placing my order for the Cayo:D

Another proud Focus owner. Boards should start negotiating group discounts.

unionman

el tonto wrote: »

Another proud Focus owner. Boards should start negotiating group discounts.

C'mon, there aren't that many...:rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

unionman wrote: »

C'mon, there aren't that many...:rolleyes:

It's not a bad thing. They're getting rave reviews here.