how strong is Iran's military

pwd

I saw in the news that Iran are saying they think Israel is planning a military strke on them and if they are attacked their initial targets will be American.

How strong is Iran's military? Is it much stronger than Iraq's before they were invaded?

pwd

pwd wrote: »

I saw in the news that Iran are saying they think Israel is planning a military strke on them and if they are attacked their initial targets will be American.

How strong is Iran's military? Is it much stronger than Iraq's before they were invaded?

It would be fair to say that they are bigger and meaner then Iraq pre-2003. Remember, they ahve a much larger population! Though they're bigger, they still suffer from the major problem from their lack of force projection and air power. All they have are a few pimped up F-4's, old Tomcats and older model SU's and Migs. The major issue would be hte sheer amount of damage that all those Iranian arty pieces could do. Alot of ordanance booming down in one place would cause some mess.

Besides, not a week goes by when you don't hear about America's imminent attack on Iran. It's not going to happen anytime soon me thinks and hopes!

MacBuster

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be fair to say that they are bigger and meaner then Iraq pre-2003. Remember, they ahve a much larger population! Though they're bigger, they still suffer from the major problem from their lack of force projection and air power. All they have are a few pimped up F-4's, old Tomcats and older model SU's and Migs. The major issue would be hte sheer amount of damage that all those Iranian arty pieces could do. Alot of ordanance booming down in one place would cause some mess.

Besides, not a week goes by when you don't hear about America's imminent attack on Iran. It's not going to happen anytime soon me thinks and hopes!

Nothing that the Israeli Army could sort out in a few hours.

They are crap over zealous fanatics and a third world army....

concussion

I know feck all about the Israeli army and even less about Irans, but 36 million against 3 million aren't good odds!!!

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=25

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=23

Plus with a population of only 7.2 million there's a lot less Israeli's to kill :eek:

MacBuster

concussion wrote: »

I know feck all about the Israeli army and even less about Irans, but 36 million against 3 million aren't good odds!!!

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=25

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_detail.asp?country_id=23

Plus with a population of only 7.2 million there's a lot less Israeli's to kill :eek:

Size does'nt matter in this situation...

Sooner or later the Israelis will hit Iran never mind the yanks and if they do they will hopefully bomb those brutal morons back to the stone age.. And I think it could be nuclear at this stage

piby

According to Wikipedia Iran has '545,000 active personnel' but they have a low level of defence spending when compared to other nations in the Gulf.

Besides, not a week goes by when you don't hear about America's imminent attack on Iran. It's not going to happen anytime soon me thinks and hopes!

+1 With the Americans tied down in both Iraq and Afghanistan they simply don't have the manpower. Besides I very much doubt the US public would tolerate a third war unless provoked.

pwd wrote: »

I saw in the news that Iran are saying they think Israel is planning a military strke on them and if they are attacked their initial targets will be American.

Ahmadinejad and his goverment have been defiant as such but they're not that stupid. Google search and you'll find they're actually pursuing other means of antagonizing the US such as their buding alliance with Nicaragua. To tie into my above point I don't imagine that the US would be too keen for Israel to do anything either!

concussion

MacBuster wrote: »

Size does'nt matter in this situation..

With the huge difference in numbers, does Israel have the bombs and bullets to defeat that size of an army??

Methinks this is heading toward the Walter Mitty forum anyway!

MacBuster

concussion wrote: »

With the huge difference in numbers, does Israel have the bombs and bullets to defeat that size of an army??

Methinks this is heading toward the Walter Mitty forum anyway!

Obviously your not from a military background. The Israeli army is the most powerful in the region, it is well trained,well equipped and motivated.

Quality compared to quantity is the factor here...The Iranian army is a joke even their revoultionary guards and special forces.

Iran is a terrorist nation, Israeli forces are trained primarily in Urban Warfare,CRW and also comprehensively in Conventional warfare and they also have the samson option.

concussion

I'm not questioning the training or motivation of the Israeli's, I'd just don't think they have the manpower or munitions to sustain a conflict against such a numerically superior force.





Anyway, they'd have to go through Jordan or Syria and then Iraq to get there :rolleyes:

Hagar

Ssshhhh... petrol is dear enough already.

Fratton Fred

concussion wrote: »

With the huge difference in numbers, does Israel have the bombs and bullets to defeat that size of an army??

Methinks this is heading toward the Walter Mitty forum anyway!

Men with guns, no matter how fanatical, aren't going to be much use against the Israeli air force.

The problem would be if a few other middle east states ie syria fancy a go as well, then it could get very bloody indeed.

concussion

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Men with guns, no matter how fanatical, aren't going to be much use against the Israeli air force.

And how well will the Israeli air-force fare against Irans missile defences? Only last year a Russian AD commander stated that Irans air defences were powerful enough to repel US air-strikes.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The problem would be if a few other middle east states ie syria fancy a go as well, then it could get very bloody indeed.

If it happens, there's going to be some mess alright.

OS119

concussion wrote: »

And how well will the Israeli air-force fare against Irans missile defences? Only last year a Russian AD commander stated that Irans air defences were powerful enough to repel US air-strikes.

hmmm.... Russian AD officer says that Russian AD system flogged to Iranians (and potentially lots of others) will handle any threat....

no conflict of interest there my Lord, all perfectly above board.

i seem to recall Russian AD officers saying very similar things about Iraqi, Yugoslav et al AD systems shortly after they'd bought very expensive Russian AD systems and the Russians were looking to sell them to others who might find US aircraft in their airspace.

i also seem to recall them being about as effective as a horse trying to fight a forest fire with a screwdriver.

mass is only effective if it can be controlled and directed, modern airpower removes that control very quickly and the 'mass' soon finds that it is unable to engage the enemy but the enemy is able to, in the US lexicon, 'cut if off, and then kill it - at leisure'.

Conor108

From BBC News, Today

The US and Israel have condemned Iran after it test-fired a series of missiles, including one capable of reaching Israel.

Iran state media said the Shahab-3 had a range of 2,000km (1,240 miles) and was armed with a conventional warhead.

Iran has tested the missile before, but the latest launch comes amid rising tensions with the US and Israel over the country's nuclear programme.

Full Story

Israel did that military rehearsel a few weeks back too. They flew 100+ planes west towards Greece as far as uranium enrichment plants in Natanz are to the east. story link

twinytwo

MacBuster wrote: »

Nothing that the Israeli Army could sort out in a few hours.

They are crap over zealous fanatics and a third world army....

exactly.. besides this was going to happen eventually. they have been running guns etc into iraq for years.. i have full faith in the israeli air force. bomb them back to the stone age

rednik

A few years ago I would have thought an Israeli pre emptive strike on Iran would be a success but after the recent debacle in Lebanon I have my doubts. Once Israel decides to go the politicians will step to one side and allow the military to run the show. Like the Yanks they will take out Iranian military infrastructure and attack the nuclear plants first. If the Iranian AD is any good they will be lucky to take down a few planes. After all the threats Israel has received from Iran does anybody seriously believe they will allow Iran to be a nuclear power. Just remember Operation Babylon when they attacked Iraq and Saddam supposedly had an air force and AD then.

MacBuster

Three words concussion :

Six Day War ...

Iran are a pushover and I sincerely hope they get Nuked...

Steyr

Didnt Israel hit some Nuclear type facilities a few years back too? Got in and out without a scratch.

twinytwo

MacBuster wrote: »

Three words concussion :

Six Day War ...

Iran are a pushover and I sincerely hope they get Nuked...

matre you had better hope they dont cause if it comes to that then the world crosses a line at which point there is no going back.. once nukes get used once thats it. ( before some walt starts yapping on about ww2 .. that shopwed the world how bad they actually are )

MacBuster

Steyr wrote: »

Didnt Israel hit some Nuclear type facilities a few years back too? Got in and out without a scratch.

Yep the french supplied Iraqi Reactors

MacBuster

twinytwo wrote: »

matre you had better hope they dont cause if it comes to that then the world crosses a line at which point there is no going back.. once nukes get used once thats it. ( before some walt starts yapping on about ww2 .. that shopwed the world how bad they actually are )

Although your are right, Iran is not just a threat to the Middleast but to the rest of the world from Oil constraints to funding of international terrorism, it is about time they were took to task...

Manic Moran

The Iranian capabilities must be viewed in two categories: Offence and defence.

Offensively, it downright sucks. No two ways about it. Defensively, it's going to come down something akin to the Hezbollah strategy a couple of years ago. Conventional systems such as tanks and air defenses would get wiped out, it would come down to man-portable systems fired from prepared, well-hidden defensive positions, mainly out of urban areas. (With accompanying levels of collaterol damage)

NTM

concussion

Iran's air-defences are more advanced than Iraqi or Yugoslavian systems which were mainly 60's or 70's vintage missile systems. With a small amount of S 300's Iran now has a proper layered AD network to protect vital installations (ie the ones Israel will want to destroy) where long-range systems can engage attacking aircraft while shorter range Tor and Pantsyr units protect them from cruise missiles and ARM's.

Israel is not going to destroy Irans military, to do that would require a sustained air war to destroy AD and communications systems and allow for air-superiority for a ground war as happened during the 6 day war. You cannot destroy or take over a country with air power alone and Israel is 2 countries away - even if they got their military across Syria/Jordan and Iraq they would be attacking on a single front against an enemy with a 12 to 1 superiority. It won't happen.

What will probably happen is a repeat of the Osirak strike where selected sites will be targeted. If the Israeli's know where they are they'll probably be successful in destroying them as they have quite advanced ECM technology as shown by their strike on Syria last year. However, ECM is a game which quickly changes and the same tricks don't work 3 or 4 times which tips the balance back toward the missile defences.

Hagar

How long have the US/UK being trying to conquer Iraq?
What makes anyone think Iran would be any easier?
A quick few bombing raids, yeah, maybe, but finish the job?
Not nearly as easy or predictable.

Cato

Hagar wrote: »

How long have the US/UK being trying to conquer Iraq?
What makes anyone think Iran would be any easier?
A quick few bombing raids, yeah, maybe, but finish the job?
Not nearly as easy or predictable.

militarily they have, wars of ocupation never work though at least looking back in history i cannot think of any that worked..

Cato

concussion wrote: »

Iran's air-defences are more advanced than Iraqi or Yugoslavian systems which were mainly 60's or 70's vintage missile systems. With a small amount of S 300's Iran now has a proper layered AD network to protect vital installations (ie the ones Israel will want to destroy) where long-range systems can engage attacking aircraft while shorter range Tor and Pantsyr units protect them from cruise missiles and ARM's.

Israel is not going to destroy Irans military, to do that would require a sustained air war to destroy AD and communications systems and allow for air-superiority for a ground war as happened during the 6 day war. You cannot destroy or take over a country with air power alone and Israel is 2 countries away - even if they got their military across Syria/Jordan and Iraq they would be attacking on a single front against an enemy with a 12 to 1 superiority. It won't happen.

What will probably happen is a repeat of the Osirak strike where selected sites will be targeted. If the Israeli's know where they are they'll probably be successful in destroying them as they have quite advanced ECM technology as shown by their strike on Syria last year. However, ECM is a game which quickly changes and the same tricks don't work 3 or 4 times which tips the balance back toward the missile defences.

damn military campaigns these days are so complicated, compared to what im reading about WW2, dont understand all these missile defences ECMs and what have you.:eek:

Hagar

Cato wrote: »

militarily they have,

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Maybe on a very broad scale they can claim that but without doubt they haven't quelled all opposition. Everyday the body count rises, on both sides. It's not over yet, it may never be. Vietnam anyone?

Cato

Hagar wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Maybe on a very broad scale they can claim that but without doubt they haven't quelled all opposition. Everyday the body count rises, on both sides. It's not over yet, it may never be. Vietnam anyone?

im just thinking in context of Sadams regime and his military power being defeated, in that sense it was a victory, ocupation is definatly not going to work to many paramilitary s terrorists and other dangerous groups running around with weapons vying for control.

(heh just realised spell checker doesent correct Sadam )

concussion

Cato wrote: »

damn military campaigns these days are so complicated, compared to what im reading about WW2, dont understand all these missile defences ECMs and what have you.:eek:

It's all a big complicated game with the balance constantly tipping from favouring the aircraft to favouring the defenders. Its easy to turn on a radar, acquire and destroy an aircraft, the skill is knowing when to illuminate, what assets to use and what you want the enemy to see. A radar may be able to track an aircraft from 50 miles for example but aircraft can detect these from 2 to 3 times this distance.

At the moment, with a properly layered AD system the balance is tipped toward with the defender as current aircraft technology is 20 years old at the moment. Stealth bombers the new F 22's bring the advantage back to aircraft but Israel does not have these aircraft. Earlier generation stealth technology, ie F 117 was overcome ten years ago as seen with the SA 3 over Yugoslavia. Israels ECM (jamming) is at the stage that they can reported jam radar without the radar knowing its been jammed but that can be overcome (by ECCM) if its used too many times.

Bottom line really - a couple of surprise strikes will more than likely get through, a sustained campaign would more than likely result in large losses. When the large radars are finally destroyed and the air-force turns to close air support the smaller mobile and man-portable systems would wreak havoc on low flying, close range targets.

MacBuster

It has been rumoured that Israeli forces has setup a covert airbase in Kurdish Iraq under the guise of a civilan airport for the purpose of refuelling.

They could not fly a straight sortie from Israel to hit Iran, hence flying below radar down the red sea and up via the straits or hormuz to Northern iraq where a possible refuel would be done and then direct attack on Iran and returning then via Turkey and on to Israel.

It is rumours but nothing solid.

the GALL

Cato wrote: »

militarily they have, wars of ocupation never work though at least looking back in history i cannot think of any that worked..

Germany WWII
Japan WWII
And I think the phrase is Americanization
Suprised you missed them