Something sporty

coin

Right, sorry for another of these threads but I'm in a big flap about this.......

I'm 24, I've a 2003 Volvo S60 2.4D5 and it's a lovely car. Before this I had a 2004 Saab 9-3 1.8t, again a pleasant car to have.

Thing is I feel like I'm having my midlike crisis now!!!I'm 24!!! I want to own something sporty before I end up in a Hyundai Matrix or some MPV(no offence to you that have one). I've roughly €15,000 to spend (building house).
So do I get a Vauxhall vx220, a Lotus Elise, Mazda RX8 or something like a honda s2000. I don't care about impracticality anymore...........or am I just going mad 'cos these clearly aren't everyday cars like what I currently have.

Thanks in advance...

eringobragh

All nice cars!! I'm in the same boat myself 25 & I feel I have to move on from my boring yet extremly reliable primera! Personally I'd do the rx8

I'm thinking of going for a Mk2 MR2 myself.

coin

I was about to buy an RX8 last week, completely off the cuff, but was told about a return of about 25mpg. Dunno if thats correct but it's off putting.

smash

Elise is the best of what you've said so far... great little cars

De Hipster

I'd have to veer towards the RX8 or S2000. VX220 has patheticly basic spec afaik, elise just suggests trouser stuffing required

RobAMerc

Elise or VX220 would be the best handling
S2000 probably quickest
rx8 - most practical ( but still a hoot )

I would say check insurance - all of these would be bloody hard to insure.

leeroybrown

coin wrote: »

I was about to buy an RX8 last week, completely off the cuff, but was told about a return of about 25mpg. Dunno if thats correct but it's off putting.

That sounds about right. It might be lower if you do a lot of urban mileage or have a heavy right foot. Wankel engines tend to be very thirsty.

That said, if you're not doing big miles and want a sporty car it may be worth it. I get about 25MPG from my car on average but it's worth it.

smash

RX8 eats petrol and oil

Triangle

RX8 - i generally get about 330K for about 55 litres.

This is mostly urban traffic.

Fantastic car, but in the rain the back tends to slide a bit more.

leeroybrown

One other thing to note is that the engine in the RX8 won't like lots of short commutes.

smash

but if you do get the RX8, get the 231bhp engine

Triangle

steve06 wrote: »

get the 231bhp engine

Is there any other?

smash

yea, there's a 192 but there's a big difference.... anyway, get the Elise

Ferris

If you get an elise make sure it has the toyota engine, the K-series rover is a nightmare. Two people I know have had them with the rover engine and both blew head gaskets and one wrecked its gearbox.

The vx220 (or opel speedster if its an irish car) is a good choice if you can get in it. I'm 6'3" and I had to take out a roof bar to get in. The turbo is mental tho, easily the fastest of the cars you mentioned.

What about a boxster? A mate just got an 'S' and its going well for him. They're hard to shift so you might get a reasonably priced one. just make sure you go for the 2.7 or the 3.2 S as the 2.5's wear out cylinder bores due to nikasil lining.

secman

lovely Audi TT convertable on carzone, only 8 k on clock, as in 8 km not 8,000 for €34k !

Secman

coin

WOOHOO, just got quoted €1505 for the Elise!!!

Nise one, just have to sell the Volvo & go Lotus hunting!!

leeroybrown

Ferris wrote: »

If you get an elise make sure it has the toyota engine, the K-series rover is a nightmare. Two people I know have had them with the rover engine and both blew head gaskets and one wrecked its gearbox.

Definitely. The K-series Elise is well known for gasket issues. That said, an Elise in the OP's price range will be a K-series.

Ferris wrote: »

What about a boxster?.

secman wrote: »

lovely Audi TT convertable on carzone, only 8 k on clock, as in 8 km not 8,000 for €34k !

Not on the OP's €15k budget though...

smash

The K-series Elise should be ok if well maintained.

In my opinion Laser Blue is the best colour and there are 2 here
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/547850.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/590820.htm - hard top with this, worth about 1,500

Unfortunately though with a price range of 15k, you'll probably be looking at an S1 elise - they're still great cars though and if you can get one with S2 upgrades or the sport 135 then you're laughing.

If you do see a cheap S2, make sure it's never been crashed and repaired... elises should be scraped and sold for parts after a crash and not repaired, they'll never handle the same again!

coin

thanks for all these replies, very quick.

No body has tried to back me out of this so cheers!!!

That laser blue really looks stunning!

How about this one:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/594125.htm

groupb

He said sporty. The TT is no sports car.

coin

Guys, how do you work out the VRT for a Elise on the ros.ie website?

leeroybrown

Normally you enter the details of the car that you're interested in on this form. It will let you select the exact model and give you the current VRT payment for it. Unfortunately, Lotus don't appear in the list of manufacturers.

The other bad news is that as of July 1st an Elise will probably have gone from the 25% CC based rate to the 32% CO2 based rate. I've got no idea what the OMSP would be for one.

Triangle

Check out the Motor Tax payments as well.
If you inport the rx-8 now, you'll be paying 2K a year motor tax!!!!


You don't want that with the elise (although i'm not too sure of the emmissions for an elise)

declanoneill

coin wrote: »

I was about to buy an RX8 last week, completely off the cuff, but was told about a return of about 25mpg. Dunno if thats correct but it's off putting.

25 MPG is only if you're lucky. I get more like 16 and love every minute. If you're concerned about fuel economy then the RX8 isn't for you, even though you seem to have decided on a Lotus. It's one of the few cars that would tempt me away from the RX8

Triangle wrote: »

Check out the Motor Tax payments as well.
If you inport the rx-8 now, you'll be paying 2K a year motor tax!!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd only pay 2k a year if you imported an RX8 from 2008, any of the years before that and it'd be 500

nemoid

Mate of mine had a silver VX220/Speedster there about a year ago...seriously quick and superb handling machine if u can avoid carrying kiddies...same chassis as a Lotus Elise but a damn site cheaper and more reliable as i've have heard nothing but scare stories bout those K Series engines :eek:

walshy123

i picked up a vx220 last month and i am loving it. i was also thinking elise, but for that money its gonna be an s1 and i reckon the vx is a nicer and better car. as for juice im gettin in excess of 30mpg. im 6ft and big build and have no prob gettin in and out.

class car, you will defo get noticed in it

coin

Busy last few weeks. Went for test drive in 2 Lotus Elise (1999&2000). Both turned out to be in rag order.Rang first "dealer", gave him 6 hours notice of my arrival,because it was going to be a 2hour drive to get there.Got there eventually, car filthy inside and out.I physically had to push the car to start it.Couldn't get it going!!Was told that they'd try a different battery if I hung around for a couple of hours!!

Second one was also in bad condition, seats torn up, rain seeping and drenching the cabin.Was just so disheartening because I was set on one.But they're serious craic to drive!

So drove home in my Volvo...............4 miles from home flywheel went and I ground to a halt.:mad: So had to get new flywheel & cylinder at cost of €1500!!

Trying to find a nice s2000, think I need something with a boot.HAve even considered Alfa GT. Think I should confer with you guys again??

superjosh9

i'm sorry about this - but i really question the technical awareness - and indeed the age of some of the posters on this when they actually recommend a lotus.

k-series engine is a p.o.s btw...

toyota engine is i'm sure great - but you're spending money.

And then what have you?! A lotus?! You would need to be an enthusiast to operate something like that everyday. Maybe you are though, I don't know!

Honda s2000 would be 10 times the car. Honda don't operate on a shoe-string for a start.

I'd steer well clear of the RX8 for the reasons people have said - and the impending lack of any resale value.

Anyway - best of luck! Don't buy a Lotus though..

Ferris

+1

Lotus took an engine that was already fond of blowing head gaskets and put it into a tiny restrictive engine (fiberglass) bay with no airflow. Then they ran long hoses to a front mounted rad without uprating the waterpump.

All this in a light sportscar where it was going to have the nuts revved off it. The lad I know who has one rues the day he bought it. He actually can't get rid of the thing at the mo as it never runs well enough for long enough.

Climate Expert

groupb wrote: »

He said sporty. The TT is no sports car.

How is a 2 seater convertible with 225bhp not sporty? You must have brain cancer.

superjosh9

Climate Expert wrote: »

..You must have brain cancer.

here, will you leave it out

--amadeus--

superjosh9 wrote: »

i'm sorry about this - but i really question the technical awareness - and indeed the age of some of the posters on this when they actually recommend a lotus...And then what have you?! A lotus?! You would need to be an enthusiast to operate something like that everyday. Maybe you are though, I don't know!
...
Honda s2000 would be 10 times the car. Honda don't operate on a shoe-string for a start
....
Don't buy a Lotus though..

Have you been within 20 feet of a Lotus?

As it happens I don't have an Elise - I need 4 seats - but that is illeducated scaremongering. I run a 40 year old Elan+2 as an everyday car. I do cross country runs and short commutes, pick up and drop off kids and go to the shops. It's docile and easy in traffic and mental and fun on the twisties. Yes it's a bit more work that a Corolla but it's a huge amount more rewarding. Anyone with an ounce of mechanical sympathy can easily maintain the average Lotus and they are genuine "drivers cars".

What on earth do you mean - "And then what have you - a Lotus". Lotus has a marque history that is second only to the likes of Ferrari and Porsche - multiple F1 championships and some of teh most desirable cars ever made.

The S2000 may be a tidy and reliable car with an amazing engine but it'll never be a Lotus.

peasant

warning for climate expert ...that's uncalled for

RobAMerc

superjosh9 wrote: »

And then what have you?! A lotus?!

I would rather have a Lotus than a Honda any day of the week.

superjosh9 wrote: »

Honda s2000 would be 10 times the car. Honda don't operate on a shoe-string for a start.

This is silly tripe - Is it because its Japanese that you think the Honda is better than the Elise ?

superjosh9

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Have you been within 20 feet of a Lotus?

As it happens I don't have an Elise - I need 4 seats - but that is illeducated scaremongering. I run a 40 year old Elan+2 as an everyday car. I do cross country runs and short commutes, pick up and drop off kids and go to the shops. It's docile and easy in traffic and mental and fun on the twisties. Yes it's a bit more work that a Corolla but it's a huge amount more rewarding. Anyone with an ounce of mechanical sympathy can easily maintain the average Lotus and they are genuine "drivers cars".

What on earth do you mean - "And then what have you - a Lotus". Lotus has a marque history that is second only to the likes of Ferrari and Porsche - multiple F1 championships and some of teh most desirable cars ever made.

The S2000 may be a tidy and reliable car with an amazing engine but it'll never be a Lotus.

yeh, I've come across one or two, as such - scare-mongering: guilty. ill-educated? not guilty.

different for you as you are clearly an enthusiast. would be like me recommending an old alfa - irrational. each to their own I suppose. Reckon I've seen your old elan about - stands out these days

superjosh9

RobAMerc wrote: »

I would rather have a Lotus than a Honda any day of the week.




This is silly tripe - Is it because its Japanese that you think the Honda is better than the Elise ?

oh brother, well i'm off

walshy123

colour is a bit mad but.... http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Opel/Speedster/car/1062938/

i bet the insurance will be less that the elise.

im with allianz through glennons in dublin, first year on my own and its just over 1k fully comp

smash

superjosh9 wrote: »

i'm sorry about this - but i really question the technical awareness - and indeed the age of some of the posters on this when they actually recommend a lotus.

k-series engine is a p.o.s btw...

toyota engine is i'm sure great - but you're spending money.

And then what have you?! A lotus?! You would need to be an enthusiast to operate something like that everyday. Maybe you are though, I don't know!

Honda s2000 would be 10 times the car. Honda don't operate on a shoe-string for a start.

I'd steer well clear of the RX8 for the reasons people have said - and the impending lack of any resale value.

Anyway - best of luck! Don't buy a Lotus though..

you're clueless....

I've driven elise's before and I know a lot of elise and exige owners - most of them use the car as a daily driver!

superjosh9

steve06 wrote: »

you're clueless....

i am not clueless

Ferris

steve06 wrote: »

you're clueless....

I've driven elise's before and I know a lot of elise and exige owners - most of them use the car as a daily driver!

I know two people who've owned S1 elises, both engines needed the head gasket done, one of the cars actually had it done twice. The other also needed a gearbox rebuild.

I'm not Lotus bashing, I defo wouldn't turn down a 111r or a post '04 one, because they're the ones with toyota engines. There is a reason the toyota engined ones are more expensive to buy 2nd hand.

smash

superjosh9 wrote: »

i am not clueless

ok, so where does your knowledge of the elise come from?

cpoh1

steve06 wrote: »

ok, so where does your knowledge of the elise come from?

Its pretty common knowledge that the old rover k series engines are serious dogs. It doesnt matter what heritage it has most lotus up until very recently had "questionable" reliability.

The elise (S2) is a fantastic car but as a daily driver takes serious dedication. Fair play to anyone who uses theirs as one and does anything near 10k miles a year in it because they are not comfortable to drive long distance.

smash

yes but the elise being an enthusiast car is usually well maintained by the owner and looked after well, with problems fixed quickly and parts upgraded.

If you do some research from owners clubs then you'll find a great car no problem.

superjosh9

steve06 wrote: »

yes but the elise being an enthusiast car is usually well maintained by the owner and looked after well, with problems fixed quickly and parts upgraded.

If you do some research from owners clubs then you'll find a great car no problem.

now - why don't you read my original post again.

+1 on what ferris and cpoh said. I'd take a toyota-engined one, but new only.

AFE

In like the way most of the posters on here have never been near an Elise but are experts on how bad the K series is. It is in fact a brilliant engine, innovative, light weight, very, very, fuel efficient, high revving and can be tracked without mercy. The current highest mileage one has over 220,000 miles on the clock.

The K series has one weakness in that about 40% blow the head gasket. Normally there are several warning signs that this is in the process of happening so most people catch it in time. Once fixed and fixed right it should never happen again. Due to the trend for engine swaps K series engines are incredibly cheap on the used market, from free with low miles & history to about £500 for one with upgrades.

Buy one with the head already done and you have a great car for very little money.

One other factor is deprecation. I bought mine for £8400, drove it for 15,000 miles and got back £8400. A year later the same car is still worth about £8400. Deprecation proof motoring, how many cars on your list are like that? How many head gaskets could be done for just one years deprecation on an RX8?

Are Elise’s hard to sell? I sold mine to the first caller for the full money and the next guy to phone fell out with me because it was sold so fast, he was on the way with cash and had to turn back.

Great car, perhaps try out the Lotus section on www.octane.ie for some facts rather than fiction about Elise’s from people that own rather than speculate about them.

Gumbo

good choice of cars, but the Honda S2000 would be my choice every time.

Ferris

The guy I know has spent 6k on his fixing it in Linders, and its still buggered. Thats not cheap motoring.

Oh and it was outside my house last week, I drove in it and it was sounding like a bucket of bolts.

Great car with a toyota engine, 40% failure rate on the K-series, I'd rather not take the risk. That engine in an Elise was a flawed design, pure and simple.

cpoh1

AFE wrote: »

In like the way most of the posters on here have never been near an Elise but are experts on how bad the K series is. It is in fact a brilliant engine, innovative, light weight, very, very, fuel efficient, high revving and can be tracked without mercy. The current highest mileage one has over 220,000 miles on the clock.

The K series has one weakness in that about 40% blow the head gasket. Normally there are several warning signs that this is in the process of happening so most people catch it in time. Once fixed and fixed right it should never happen again. Due to the trend for engine swaps K series engines are incredibly cheap on the used market, from free with low miles & history to about £500 for one with upgrades.

Buy one with the head already done and you have a great car for very little money.

One other factor is deprecation. I bought mine for £8400, drove it for 15,000 miles and got back £8400. A year later the same car is still worth about £8400. Deprecation proof motoring, how many cars on your list are like that? How many head gaskets could be done for just one years deprecation on an RX8?

Are Elise’s hard to sell? I sold mine to the first caller for the full money and the next guy to phone fell out with me because it was sold so fast, he was on the way with cash and had to turn back.

Great car, perhaps try out the Lotus section on www.octane.ie for some facts rather than fiction about Elise’s from people that own rather than speculate about them.

The only thing people are critisicing the elise for is its rover engine, the problems here aren't fiction. 40% failure rate on a mass produced engine is appalling, i may never have come across an elise with a k series but ive crossed paths with loads of rover 620ti's etc. and their owners have no hair left after dealing with them. Most end up parting out the car because their worthless with a blown engine, I got my crx brakes off once such guy a few years back.

--amadeus--

Link to the 40% failure rate?

The K Series engine has a know issue with the head gasket and (according to the Wiki) "most unmodified K-Series engines are expected to suffer head-gasket failure at around 90,000 miles."

The key word is unmodified - some simple work will reduce the potential for failure very dramatically. For anyone who is serious about buying a K Series engined car this is a great read.

Speaking personally I think it's a mistake to compare the owner experince of a car like the Rover 620 to an Elise. They are owned (and maintained) by very different types of people and the issues with the engine are so well known that any enthusiast owner will have had teh mods done already. If you are serious about an Elise then either buy a modified car and drive with a clear mind or use the unmodified state of the car to drive the price down and do it after purchase.

cpoh1

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Link to the 40% failure rate?

The K Series engine has a know issue with the head gasket and (according to the Wiki) "most unmodified K-Series engines are expected to suffer head-gasket failure at around 90,000 miles."

The key word is unmodified - some simple work will reduce the potential for failure very dramatically. For anyone who is serious about buying a K Series engined car this is a great read.

Speaking personally I think it's a mistake to compare the owner experince of a car like the Rover 620 to an Elise. They are owned (and maintained) by very different types of people and the issues with the engine are so well known that any enthusiast owner will have had teh mods done already. If you are serious about an Elise then either buy a modified car and drive with a clear mind or use the unmodified state of the car to drive the price down and do it after purchase.

Which brings us full circle to the original point. As a daily runaround driven by a person with little technical knowledge who simply wants a performance car without the hassle the s1 elise is not a good option. Are we all agreed on that? Not everyone is interested in having their head under the bonnet every weekend playing with cars (I know I would though ) and having an engine as tempermental as the k is not ideal for mr joe soap.

Anyone interested in an elise would be much better off going post 2005 for the toyota engined car, doesnt it have a beams engine in it?

Ferris

cpoh1 wrote: »

Which brings us full circle to the original point. As a daily runaround driven by a person with little technical knowledge who simply wants a performance car without the hassle the s1 elise is not a good option. Are we all agreed on that? Not everyone is interested in having their head under the bonnet every weekend playing with cars (I know I would though ) and having an engine as tempermental as the k is not ideal for mr joe soap.

Anyone interested in an elise would be much better off going post 2005 for the toyota engined car, doesnt it have a beams engine in it?

+1

The mods include double thickness headgaskets, different headbolts, ported waterways in the head, uprated waterpump and a different thermostat. Couple this to the inevitable machining that will need to be done to the head. Joe Soap cannot be expected to know all this just for his car to be moderately reliable. Also now that the only Dublin dealership for Lotus has been withdrawn that leaves the cars with no qualified support (unless there is another Lotus specialist in Dublin).