Why do Ameriacn cars have big engines ?

green123

what is the point / advantage of such huge engines ?

maybe more pulling power ? but we seem get by here without these huge engines ?

from another thread on here

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Cadillac/DeVille/4-door/972682/

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Dodge/Ram/RAM-SRT/815309/

Max_Damage

Cheaper petrol (about 60 cents a litre at the moment in America). I guess they never really got over the 1950's where you have a massive V8 engined car and only pay 10 cents a gallon for fuel!

MarkR

Ever see the film "Supersize me?"

vectra

MarkR wrote: »

Ever see the film "Supersize me?"

Was just about to say
"Because they have BIG BUTTS to carry around in them"

chickenhawk

I paid $2 per gallon of petrol in America last year. So when petrol is that cheep why not have the biggest thing you can get.

People always say that american cars are crap at cornering but what they don't realise is that the roads are dead straight. The speed limits are pretty low but most people seemed to have radar detectors on their cars so drove well over 110 etc.

The only thing that seemed to limit their speed was the fear of blowing a tyre which happens a lot over there.

mike65

There's no substitute for cubic inches they say, there are advantages to big engines - they generate loads of torque at low revs and so are unstressed - a simple old school V8 will go forever on minimal maintainence wheras a turbocharged 1.8 16v/20v engine is intensive and is expensive to maintain and fix.

Mike.

Henry Ford III

Fuel is a lot more than US$2 a gallon over there now.

Stephen

Yeah, its between $4 and $5, depending where you buy. People with massive petrol SUVs over there are feeling some pain now I guess!

2 Espressi

The quality of gasoline varies all over the states as well, some of it can be a low as 85Ron. Big, lazy V8s don't suffer as much running on that stuff as say, turbo 4 bangers...

r3nu4l

It is surprising however that many NYC cabbies drive Ford Crown Victoria's with massive engines...the max speed most of these cabbies do in a day is about 40-50 mph. Not exactly a need for such a big engine.

RobAMerc

r3nu4l wrote: »

It is surprising however that many NYC cabbies drive Ford Crown Victoria's with massive engines...the max speed most of these cabbies do in a day is about 40-50 mph. Not exactly a need for such a big engine.

NYC cabs also run to huge miles with little or no maintenance and having probably never stopped working 24/7 in all that time. Big V8's are much better at sitting in traffic all day without getting too bothered.

US tyres are also expected to last about 100k miles - thats why they are rubbish in corners ( they are made more of plastic than rubber I think ).

r3nu4l

RobAMerc wrote: »

NYC cabs also run to huge miles with little or no maintenance and having probably never stopped working 24/7 in all that time. Big V8's are much better at sitting in traffic all day without getting too bothered.

Good point(s)! I forgot about the mileage aspect.

JimmyCrackCorn!

There is no replacement for displacement:D

Boost helps though:rolleyes:

bigpinkelephant

chickenhawk wrote: »

I paid $2 per gallon of petrol in America last year. So when petrol is that cheep why not have the biggest thing you can get.

People always say that american cars are crap at cornering but what they don't realise is that the roads are dead straight. The speed limits are pretty low but most people seemed to have radar detectors on their cars so drove well over 110 etc.

The only thing that seemed to limit their speed was the fear of blowing a tyre which happens a lot over there.

Whats a radar detector?

mondeo

I always subscribed to the theory that americans have obese ass's hence the need for more power to propell their oversized bodies.

mondeo

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Whats a radar detector?

I have one Beltronics 995 but I dont use it anymore....it's ilegal:rolleyes:

r3nu4l

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

Whats a radar detector?

A device that detects radar!

/ba-dum, tish!

It's a device that can detect the presence of a mobile patrol unit using a speed detection device in the road ahead. It sounds a warning that allows the driver time to slow down so as not to get caught by the speed-trap.

G Luxel

The cars arent as big as they were before 1977, after which GM downsized engines and styles from 8.2 to 7.7 and Ford and chrysler followed a few years later Now a large engine in a car like Lincoln town car or Caprice is 4.6 or 5.7 respectfully, excluding any SUVs or Dodge Ram size pick ups which have got bigger in size.

dloob

All the basic mid size sedan hire cars I've driven over there were 3l V6 engines.

The petrol doesn't seem to be as good I think the standard is around 87 Octane but due to the usual calculation differences that would be more like 90 Octane European petrol.
With the low octane rating comes low compression ratios on the engines, creating the classic big lazy American engine.
Horse power a little low for their size but they'll keep going forever, and while gas was cheap why not. Things may change a bit now.

challengemaster

Better question - Why do American cars have big engines, yet are all WAY cheaper than cars over here (I'm talking like 1/3rd the price)

listermint

If we all had cars like the states its quite possible the oil situation would be far worse than it is now. Bloody land of the free! Free to eat up the worlds resources just because the manufacturers are too lazy to change public opinion properly on the guzzlers 20 years ago. They are far too used to having it easy petrol prices wise. Shock horror it comes around to bite them in the ass.

Max_Damage

challengemaster wrote: »

Better question - Why do American cars have big engines, yet are all WAY cheaper than cars over here (I'm talking like 1/3rd the price)

Because Americans aren't screwed for tax like we are I reckon.

cancan

Conversly, why do European cars have such small engines?

Most people think that a VR6 golf is some sort of performance car in europe, where as in america, a vr6 golf is a girls car.

If you take the punitive taxation system out of the equation in europe, people would drive big engined cars too. Does anyone really grow up dreaming of a 320d, or a 1.4 econobox?

It's your government with huge taxes that makes a 316i and executive choice for many deluded individuals. The base model in the US is the 328i, and you can have one for 20k euro.

Just think about that the next time you hop into a 316! BMW must laugh at irish consumers back in munich! It's not like a 328i engine costs much more than a 316 engine to make.

If every car in ireland cost a third of it's current price in the morning, think of the possibilities...

listermint

cancan wrote: »

Conversly, why do European cars have such small engines?

Most people think that a VR6 golf is some sort of performance car in europe, where as in america, a vr6 golf is a girls car.

If you take the punitive taxation system out of the equation in europe, people would drive big engined cars too. Does anyone really grow up dreaming of a 320d, or a 1.4 econobox?

It's your government with huge taxes that makes a 316i and executive choice for many deluded individuals. The base model in the US is the 328i, and you can have one for 20k euro.

Just think about that the next time you hop into a 316! BMW must laugh at irish consumers back in munich! It's not like a 328i engine costs much more than a 316 engine to make.

If every car in ireland cost a third of it's current price in the morning, think of the possibilities...

We dont need big engines. They are killing the planets resources and Europe is better off without them.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/average_fuel_co.html

And no im not some Greenpeace activist im just sick of people in the States going on about the price of fuel and how it is affecting them.

Max_Damage

listermint wrote: »

We dont need big engines. They are killing the planets resources and Europe is better off without them.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/average_fuel_co.html

And no im not some Greenpeace activist im just sick of people in the States going on about the price of fuel and how it is affecting them.

Are you telling me that if you lived in America, you would rather drive a Suzuki Swift or something than a Chevrolet Corvette C6 or equivalent? I myself would rather go for the latter.

Teh Russ

I'm spending some time out in the US at the moment for work... the car culture over here is vastly different than it is back home.

Firstly, people have to drive a whole lot more than we do - everything's so widely spaced apart, it's rare you get local shops in the suburbs thanks to single-use zoning laws, and, unless you're in a big city, there's no public transport. This has made a car a necessity, rather than a luxury. So, with all this driving they have to do, Americans prefer more comfortable cars (ie, bigger, and with smoother engines). And the big, lazy V8 is the epitome of a smooth engine, even if it does drink like a fish - driving a Crown Vic is like driving a huge mobile sofa, which makes it great for sitting in traffic jams on the highway. They're also virtually indestructible, which is why the American police all use them.

Thanks to $4-a-gallon petrol, and given the absolute necessity of driving to do anything, things are changing over here - SUV and big pickup truck sales have stalled, and people are flocking to drive Toyota Yarises and Honda Jazzes - they're flying out of the dealerships. All of a sudden, cars with 4-cylinder engines are in, as any car that can't get 30mpg or better just isn't selling at the moment. The whole diesel thing never took off over here, thanks to different emissions regulations and poor-quality diesel, combined with that all-pervasive attitude that diesel is only for tractors and trucks, that's proving hard to shift.

Secondly, there's that link to the past, and the iconic huge sedans and muscle cars of old. People aspire to that - when someone has their heart set on something with a Hemi, a Yaris is a poor second.

One of the reasons cars are so much cheaper in the US, apart, obviously, from the lack of stuff like VAT or VRT, is that the cheaper models cut a lot more corners than auto makers are allowed to do in Europe - a lot of safety features we take for granted (traction control, etc) are (expensive) optional extras over here, and the fit and finish is often somewhat lower than the equivalent rest-of-the-world model to keep the prices down. Usually, as long as it has air conditioning and cupholders, Americans are happy.

The best example of that is the Ford Focus - the US Focus isn't the nice, new C1-platform one we enjoy in Europe - it's a reskinned version of the old model, done to cut costs. It's also seriously, seriously fugly. Apparently Ford don't think Americans will pay more for a premium small car, since, historically, Americans buy cars by the pound - if it costs more, it should be bigger. That attitude is definitely changing though.

cancan

listermint wrote: »

We dont need big engines. They are killing the planets resources and Europe is better off without them.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/average_fuel_co.html

And no im not some Greenpeace activist im just sick of people in the States going on about the price of fuel and how it is affecting them.

And reducing the cost of new bmw and merc diesels in ireland, while offering no decent public transportation system is saving the planet how?

The new tax system in ireland was a socialist thing to get some SUV's off the roads to keep the chattering classes happy, cos they could not afford one.

I live in the states, and using an underground system that costs $40 a month, means that I have only driven only 20,000 miles in the last 5 years in my big engined car. I have enjoyed and cherished each one of those miles.

Where were all you hippys when the commuter building boom was happening in ireland, building houses miles and miles from where people work, with no public transportation, destroying the countryside with unsuitable one off houses.

And who is going to come up with the solution to the energy crisis - probably your friends across the ocean.

You want to save the planet - tax the fuel, not the cars.
Anything else is a cop out.
Then, there would be some incentive to drive less, and some conservation may happen.

A big engine doesn't use much fuel when it's parked up and the owner has an alternative means of getting to work.

listermint

Hippy? How am i am hippy. Making cars that do 17-25mpg average is'nt right regardless if it was regarded as the "norm" for years in the states. Maybe we have a different attitude to engine size in europe because of the price of fuel. Obviously we do have low mpg cars, but there are not in the majority and if they were as is the case in the states we would be guaranteed that the fuel issue would be far worse than it is now. So i dont see why your calling me a hippy for stating that it is a good thing that Europe doesnt havethe majority of its vehicles as lazy fuel guzzlers. Fair enough they run for miles and the drive smooth. The solution to future fuel problems would quite equally come from the far east afterall they are the ones making any previous break throughs so point not taken!!:rolleyes:

chickenhawk

cancan wrote: »

I live in the states, and using an underground system that costs $40 a month, means that I have only driven only 20,000 miles in the last 5 years in my big engined car. I have enjoyed and cherished each one of those miles.

I'm delighted that you live in a place with such great public transport.

I lived in Florida for most of last year and public transport doesn't exist there. Everyone has a huge car which was grand last year cause petrol was cheap. Different story now.

As for one off housing. In towns around me there is no public transport so why should I build a house there? I would have to own a car anyways. So I prefer to build a big house out off the way and use a small car for work and travel.

listermint

chickenhawk wrote: »

I'm delighted that you live in a place with such great public transport.

I lived in Florida for most of last year and public transport doesn't exist there. Everyone has a huge car which was grand last year cause petrol was cheap. Different story now.

As for one off housing. In towns around me there is no public transport so why should I build a house there? I would have to own a car anyways. So I prefer to build a big house out off the way and use a small car for work and travel.

Sentiments Exactly!!:D

cancan

I am not sure what environamental breakthroughs are coming from the far east that you speak of.
If it's hybrids, it might be worth doing some homework on their economy and what their batteries are made from and where they come from. It's more or a marketing exersize that a solution.

This in innovation...
http://www.teslamotors.com/

If people want to do something good for the envorinment, buying a used car instead of a new one is probably the best thing they can do, or advocating some form of population control.

They may be nice big V8s but many with stone age technology. No variable valve timing, less than 4valves per cylinder, push rod valve train.

Generally speaking, power and torque is reduced compared to equivelent sized modern engines with all the above features while fuel consumption is higher.

listermint

cancan wrote: »

Conversly, why do European cars have such small engines?

Most people think that a VR6 golf is some sort of performance car in europe, where as in america, a vr6 golf is a girls car.

If you take the punitive taxation system out of the equation in europe, people would drive big engined cars too. Does anyone really grow up dreaming of a 320d, or a 1.4 econobox?

I

I agree that the Tesla there is fantastic engineering, great find. But im still not sure where you are coming from. Do you really believe that we should all have larger engined cars just like the majority of the driving population in America?

Max_Damage

They may be nice big V8s but many with stone age technology. No variable valve timing, less than 4valves per cylinder, push rod valve train.

I remember hearing a reason for this, it's that many Americans still like to do DIY work on their cars (fair play to them I say), and these engines are generally far more user friendly to work on. The same can't be said about a modern Mercedes or BMW engine.

Max_Damage

listermint wrote: »

Do you really believe that we should all have larger engined cars just like the majority of the driving population in America?

I myself believe everyone should be entitled to drive whatever they want, and not let the government or anyone else tell us otherwise.

listermint

Max_Damage wrote: »

I myself believe everyone should be entitled to drive whatever they want, and not let the government or anyone else tell us otherwise.

Im not emplying legislation or anything. Im stating that is a good thing that in europe it turned out that the manufacturers make cars that do better mpg. Ok hypotheically how long do you reckon the resources would last if all of europe was juicing up their cars with "gas" and then god forbid the Chinese/Japanese and other Asian countries made cars like they do in America. Then we could all have a jolly old time.

Drive what you want. im just happy its not the norm over here:rolleyes:

cancan

listermint wrote: »

I agree that the Tesla there is fantastic engineering, great find. But im still not sure where you are coming from. Do you really believe that we should all have larger engined cars just like the majority of the driving population in America?

People should be able to buy what they want, and tax the fuel that drives them.
Then, someone doing 50,000 miles a year would pay more in taxes than someone doing 10,000 miles a year.

Economy standards would improve greatly, and it would be a global and much simplified system.

listermint

cancan wrote: »

People should be able to buy what they want, and tax the fuel that drives them.
Then, someone doing 50,000 miles a year would pay more in taxes than someone doing 10,000 miles a year.

Economy standards would improve greatly, and it would be a global and much simplified system.

Agreed!:D

S.I.R

green123 wrote: »

what is the point / advantage of such huge engines ?

maybe more pulling power ? but we seem get by here without these huge engines ?

from another thread on here

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Cadillac/DeVille/4-door/972682/

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Dodge/Ram/RAM-SRT/815309/

Back i nthe good ol' days in america, rather then tune an engine with better arts and such its cheaper to just makle them bigger...


the only people who actually ever made a differance when the company dodge made the hemi.... basically a boxer V8... Now theres some Trivia...


heres some facts: American engiens have being getting smaller and small, most of which is due to metal/gas costs meaning cars like the mustang have a bass-line v6....

Max_Damage

S.I.R wrote: »

the only people who actually ever made a differance when the company dodge made the hemi.... basically a boxer V8... Now theres some Trivia...

The Hemi only means hemispherical combustion chamber.

Teh Russ

Max_Damage wrote: »

The Hemi only means hemispherical combustion chamber.

Yep. I can testify to that... there's a car downstairs in the garage with an original 427 cu.in. (7-litre) Hemi. It's just a regular big-block V8 with differently shaped combustion chambers.

The car it's in ('70 Plymouth 'Cuda) also goes like **** off a stick. Shame it only gets about 8mpg...

Captain Slow IRL

JimmyCrackCorn! wrote: »

There is no replacement for displacement:D

There is - it's called volumetric efficiency:D

But bigger displacement makes a nicer noise!

Max_Damage

Teh Russ wrote: »

Yep. I can testify to that... there's a car downstairs in the garage with an original 427 cu.in. (7-litre) Hemi. It's just a regular big-block V8 with differently shaped combustion chambers.

The car it's in ('70 Plymouth 'Cuda) also goes like **** off a stick. Shame it only gets about 8mpg...

Pictures?

Hell, my Micra could be considered a hemi, as it has a hemispherical combustion chamber!

Stephen

pictures +1 please

Teh Russ

Only image I could find quickly...



It's the Plum Crazy Purple one on the left with the bonnet up. My father-in-law's pride and joy.

I think he took the shaker off for that pic... I'll have to find a better one.

unkel

mike65 wrote: »

There's no substitute for cubic inches they say

Indeed. The one thing automotive the Americans got damn' right. I've two V8 petrol cars on the driveway myself

peasant

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. The one thing automotive the Americans got damn' right. I've two V8 petrol cars on the driveway myself

Personally, I prefer cubic meters (of usable space) to paltry cubic inches or centimeters ...but each to their own

Max_Damage

peasant wrote: »

Personally, I prefer cubic meters (of usable space) to paltry cubic inches or centimeters ...but each to their own

Heh...

challengemaster

Max_Damage wrote: »

Because Americans aren't screwed for tax like we are I reckon.

40k of a 60k car(here) is tax? jeez..

RobAMerc

S.I.R wrote: »

the only people who actually ever made a differance when the company dodge made the hemi.... basically a boxer V8... Now theres some Trivia...

???

A boxer V8 ???

Ferris

One reason that american cars are cheaper is that they're a lot cheaper to make. This makes them, in general, less well engineered and and cheaply built(interiors usually). For instance Ford cannot afford to sell the Mondeo in America as they can't make it for less than an american is prepared to pay. Volkswagen will sell the mk6 golf with a less advanced rear axle set up in the US too.

Good point on the maintenance aspect. The Rover V8 was originally a Buick V8, it was a good engine for its time but its aluminium cylinder head needed special antifreeze in comparison to the Iron heads on most other cars. Americans who bought buicks used the antifreeze for iron engines and the buicks started overheating due to blocked and corroded cooling systems. Buick discontinued using the engine, the ford chairman saw a discarded one in an american boatyard and the rest was history for Ford.