HKC Secure External Bell Wiring

bconyard

Anyone have a suggestion for wiring the HKC SABB external bell with 4 core wire. Manual shows six core required: green/white - strobe, blue/red - bell and black/yellow - tamper.

It's a new house which is already wired. To make it worse, the cable run to the external bell box takes in a panic button and two windows...why they didn't run a sperate cable for the external bell is beyond me.

A few of the houses round in the estate have alarms fitted (no additional cable visible) so I guess it's possible to configure the wiring somehow. The window sensors I'm using are the airitech inertia and reed type which also have tamper circuit.

Any ideas?

Cadzer

There is only one way to wire the External bell with four wires.
Just say you have red,black,yellow and blue.
Red = external bell +
Blue = external bell -
Yellow = tamper return
Black = Sabb hold.

Then in the Sabb unit wire across from + external to + strobe
and - external to - strobe.

This means when ever the syatem goes into alarm the strobe will flash but if the internal bell is activated indapendantly of the external bell saya an exit fault. the strobe wont flash.
But its a work round.

bconyard

Thanks Cadzer. Was considering that. Any ideas on how to wire the window sensors and panic button in the same circuit?

g.quagmire

bconyard wrote: »

Thanks Cadzer. Was considering that. Any ideas on how to wire the window sensors and panic button in the same circuit?

If you put sensors and panic button on same circuit your panic alarm will only work if alarm is set wich is not ideal a PA should be on its own zone programmed for panic so it will work 24/7 wether alarm is set or not.Also your monitering station will not be able to tell if its a panic or alarm signal if both on same zone.I no its against regulations but just leave out the tamper circuit and use 2 cores for windows and 2 for PA button.Or if your able you could wire your windows for dual end of line and have alarm and tamper on 2 cores.

Cadzer

Well how what core do you have?
If you have 4 core then the only way to do it would be to put the sensors in dual EOL with 4K7 reistors to get alarm and tamper and then two wires for the tamper switch into a seprate zone!

bconyard

Ok..all sounds good...

Only problem is that the window sensors (x2) and the PA have to be in the same circuit as the external bell box as this is the way the builder wired the house (cable runs from control panel to plug (for PA I assume), to window 1, to window 2 and then to bell box) to bell box! Plus it's only 4 core wire..Red, Blue, Yellow and Black.

Is there any way to wire this up? I'm not too bothered about the PA or the regulations (it's my own gaff)...might forget about the PA if will make the rest easier?

Cadzer

Your really in a pickle now!So you have 4 core to do the external bell taht ok, but you also have the SAME four core to wire 2x sensors and a PA?
Thats not going to happen with the way it is wired at the moment.

What panel do you have?can you use a 8 zone expander?

bconyard

It's a HKC SecureWatch SW-812 - 8 zones expandable to 12 with a 4 zone expander which can be located remotely up to 150m away (according to manual).

Will the expander help my situation?

g.quagmire

bconyard wrote: »

Ok..all sounds good...

Only problem is that the window sensors (x2) and the PA have to be in the same circuit as the external bell box as this is the way the builder wired the house (cable runs from control panel to plug (for PA I assume), to window 1, to window 2 and then to bell box) to bell box! Plus it's only 4 core wire..Red, Blue, Yellow and Black.

Is there any way to wire this up? I'm not too bothered about the PA or the regulations (it's my own gaff)...might forget about the PA if will make the rest easier?

Could you ellaborate more on the way the house is wired.Is there only 2 windows in the house or is everything else wired ok?Is there an attic?
When you say plug for PA do you mean the cable is near a light switch for a keypad maybe?

g.quagmire

Is there only 1 four core cable at the panel really? Just need all the info definately be able to get something working tho

bconyard

g.quagmire wrote: »

Could you ellaborate more on the way the house is wired.Is there only 2 windows in the house or is everything else wired ok?Is there an attic?
When you say plug for PA do you mean the cable is near a light switch for a keypad maybe?

Everything else is fine..there is an attic...The problem is the one cable (circuit) has been routed for two windows, a PA and the external bell box - all in series and 4 core. The cable runs from the control panel to an electricty plug (assume this is for a PA) in upstairs bedroom, then to a window in the same room, then to second window in the same room and then ends outside the house up near the roof for the bell box...

There are five cables(all 4 core wire). The other four circuits will be fine (entry doors and windows etc.)...only problem is with the one highlighted

g.quagmire

bconyard wrote: »

Everything else is fine..there is an attic...The problem is the one cable (circuit) has been routed for two windows, a PA and the external bell box - all in series and 4 core. The cable runs from the control panel to an electricty plug (assume this is for a PA) in upstairs bedroom, then to a window in the same room, then to second window in same the same room and then ends outside the house up near the roof for the bell box...

Are there other cables coming upstairs for back windows or anything?
You could use HKC ID sensors instead of the aritech nevermind the PA and use 3 cores for the windows red+ black- and blue for the data for the inertia and reed then loop your bellbox 12v of the ID sensors and your left over yellow core for the bell hold off means no tamper on outside bell but how bad.

bconyard

There's two other circuits coming upstairs - one to bathroom window and one to the back bedroom windows (qty 2).

That sounds like a plan and maybe the best way out of it. I presume the SABB hold gives the bell box it's instructions?

g.quagmire

bconyard wrote: »

There's two other circuits coming upstairs - one to bathroom window and one to the back bedroom windows (qty 2).

That sounds like a plan and maybe the best way out of it. I presume the SABB hold gives the bell box it's instructions?

Yes its the trigger for the siren and the strobe in ur case using 4 cores only.With the 2 other circuits u actually have 12 cores from your panel in your attic which with some cutting and junctioning up there is plenty of cores for your bell and all your windows using the sensors u have and a PA and tampers.Hope this helps

bconyard

g.quagmire wrote: »

Yes its the trigger for the siren and the strobe in ur case using 4 cores only.With the 2 other circuits u actually have 12 cores from your panel in your attic which with some cutting and junctioning up there is plenty of cores for your bell and all your windows using the sensors u have and a PA and tampers.Hope this helps

guess i'll have to climb up in the attic and have a look and see what options I might have.

Thanks for you help...I might be back looking for more advice once I get up there and have a look..

g.quagmire

no problem

bconyard

That all worked out well - apart from having to crawl into the small tight angles between at the attic edges to find the wires. Got tamper proof junction boxes and cut and spliced wires to give me direct route of 4 cores to bell box. I looped the strobe +/- in the bell box to the external bell +/-.

All working with tampers..happy days

g.quagmire

Tell me about it spent most of my life in an attic.Electricians shouldnt be aloud 1st fix for alarms anyway glad I could help.

fearanphoist

Hi

I have put a panic button in to the hkc board . The wiring goes to pa ve+ and gnd . When I push the button it doesn't set off the alarm . is that how you wire them ?

altor

fearanphoist wrote: »

Hi

I have put a panic button in to the hkc board . The wiring goes to pa ve+ and gnd . When I push the button it doesn't set off the alarm . is that how you wire them ?

Hi fearanphoist,

You need to set the zone up to be a panic zone in eng on the panel. You will need the eng code to do this..

fearanphoist

hi

thanks for the reply i figured it out and all is good. i have one outstanding issie though . i am trying to get a output gnd from the alarm panel.

i am using the output alarm and have it set to pre-alarm and neg on the panel .

what i want to do is when the alarm goes off , i want a gnd signal from the output to trigger another device .

any ideas ??

thanks again for your reply .

altor

what are you trying to trigger ?

fearanphoist

i have a piece of electronics that is on my home server that will send out emails and sms's when the alarm is going off for more than 12 secs ( variable ) the electronics need a gnd though . i had it of the internal bell gnd and it worked , but the feedback of the gsm antenna caused the internal bell to vibrate ever so slightly

i dunno lol.

altor

I would of done it the same way, even programming one of the outputs on the alarm will have the same affect. You should use a longer gsm antenna.

KoolKid

programme an output alarm - (neg) & try it trough a relay

fearanphoist

it should work off the output if the board but i cant get the gnd from the alarm output though.

fearanphoist

koolkid wrote: »

programme an output alarm - (neg)

i am using the output alarm output and have it set to pre-alarm and neg on the panel .

KoolKid

Are you using the devices own ground or the panels?
Try using the devices ground & get the alarm to switch a relay

altor

The output can be changed to - trigger. If the device your using is from Poland, you dont need a relay, just connect it off the external bell as you said and get a longer antenna.

fearanphoist

koolkid wrote: »

Are you using the devices own ground or the panels?
Try using the devices ground & get the alarm to switch a relay

yeah i am . its all common gnd . i had it working . just need a gnd off the output .

Paul83

Cadser,

I'm looking to change my back door sensor to an inertia sensor do I have to go back to the main box. The back window is also on the circuit there are 2 cables at the back door and the back window is an end of line inertia sensor with tamper.Basically do i need to add more resistors,thanks

altor

Paul83 wrote: »

Cadser,

I'm looking to change my back door sensor to an inertia sensor do I have to go back to the main box. The back window is also on the circuit there are 2 cables at the back door and the back window is an end of line inertia sensor with tamper.Basically do i need to add more resistors,thanks

The two cables are just a loop in the cable. One end going to the next window and the other end to the panel. If there is already a sensor on the door just note the way the cable is wired into the sensor e.g. tamper and alarm, and wire the new sensor in the same.

KoolKid

NO just replace the device on the door at the moment. With an MC (combined sensor & contact)
Wire in the sam as the existing device . If there are already inertia sensors on that zone it should already be programmed to analyze inertia sensors. Just set the alarm & test to be sure.

Deltarom

Where can we connect internal siren tamper wires? There is no option to connect internal siren tamper wire in the panel board.

KoolKid

You can series them into tamper return from the external bell or into any zone tamper input .