Squatting affecting running??

TiM_rEAPeR

Im a long distance runner myself but im an avid weight lifer aswell. At the moment im starting off on some 70kg squats after avoiding them due to being unnecessary and im wondering if squatting is conflicting with the muscles that are trained for long distance.

Can squatting also affect muscle twitch fibers, like for sprinters. Ive heard and always presumed that a sprinter can only train with plyometric workouts on legs? Can anyone clear this up for me?

brianthebard

I've read that you actually run faster the day after squatting but since i'm a ****e runner i can't tell you if its true or not.

thirtyfoot

TiM_rEAPeR wrote: »

im wondering if squatting is conflicting with the muscles that are trained for long distance.

Can squatting also affect muscle twitch fibers, like for sprinters. Ive heard and always presumed that a sprinter can only train with plyometric workouts on legs? Can anyone clear this up for me?

Paula Radcliffe does squats and she is a decent distance runner:) Squats will make you strong and solid for want of a better word, they won't make you slow or fast.

Squats are one of the staples of all sprinters workouts.

Colm_OReilly

Oversimplication here but:

Squats make you stronger, which means less % of your strength is required to move you at the same speed, so it increases endurance.

Running will effect your ability to squat, as it's largely a catabolic activity (particularly LSD).

In short, squat.

Colm
-Grossly oversimplified post

Transform

TiM_rEAPeR wrote: »

Im a long distance runner myself but im an avid weight lifer aswell. At the moment im starting off on some 70kg squats after avoiding them due to being unnecessary and im wondering if squatting is conflicting with the muscles that are trained for long distance.

Can squatting also affect muscle twitch fibers, like for sprinters. Ive heard and always presumed that a sprinter can only train with plyometric workouts on legs? Can anyone clear this up for me?

Wouldn't do squats as the only direct thigh leg exercise as a runner because with the running the thighs are working overtime already and i never have met a runner that did not have tight IT band and tight quads.

I would suggest lunges, lunges onto a step, step ups and split squats as farrrr better options as a runner as they will not over work the quads. Doing some squats every other workout is ok but it purely depends on where you are tight in your legs.

Different areas of tightness require different leg exercises - otherwise you could be adding to a problem instead of helping your running.

You doing any races this year?

crotalus667

brianthebard wrote: »

I've read that you actually run faster the day after squatting but since i'm a ****e runner i can't tell you if its true or not.

I dont know how you squat but when I do it right I get doms the next day ,

Transform

I don't think being sore the next day has any relevance to the original poster

crotalus667

Transform wrote: »

I don't think being sore the next day has any relevance to the original poster

well he was talking about it' effect on running :rolleyes:

Transform

whether or not you get doms the next day after any exercise purely depends on what your normally used to i.e. new exercise, intensity, weight/reps/sets being higher.

sprinters do not only train with plyos for the legs as they would also do lots of heavy low rep leg work - purely depends on time of season and what the coach recommends

bwardrop

Transform wrote: »

I would suggest lunges, lunges onto a step, step ups and split squats as farrrr better options as a runner as they will not over work the quads. Doing some squats every other workout is ok but it purely depends on where you are tight in your legs.

Any exercise can overwork the active muscles if it is performed in an inappropriate manner - e.g. volume / intensity is too high. It is misleading & incorrect to say that squats will over work the quads in someone who also runs.

Squats (or any other exercises) may be added to your routine, provided they are added at the right time and in the right manner. For example, adding in heavy squat sessions to develop muscle mass a month out from competition would not be the best plan. Conversely, including this type of training in the off season may improve your performance the following season. You need to consider your whole training regime when adding / removing exercises from it. Perhaps for you, adding in light, low volume squat / lower body resistance sessions is the right thing - difficult to say without seeing your current training plan.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of elite athletes, regardless of sport / event will have a resistance training program that they follow and there is no reason why you should not either. If done correctly, it can only improve performance.

Transform

Misleading my ass!!

I deal with clients 24/7 (30+ sessions a week) and have yet to meet ONE who did NOT start out with some problem with thigh tightness

bwardrop

Transform wrote: »

Misleading my ass!!

I deal with clients 24/7 (30+ sessions a week) and have yet to meet ONE who did NOT start out with some problem with thigh tightness

Fair enough - but can you attribute all of these cases to a particular exercise or could it have been something else that caused it?

It is totally misleading & incorrect to suggest that squats will be detrimental to running. As I pointed out above, any exercise, including all of the ones you suggested, may be detrimental to performance if performed incorrectly (e.g. intensity / volume / technique is wrong) or the other components of fitness are neglected. After all, these exercises are primarily targeting the same muscles as the squat, so they too could "over work the quads" if performed incorrectly.

It could be a lack of appropriate flexibility training, or perhaps an imbalance in muscle development that is likely to have lead your clients to have muscle tightness, not any particular single exercise.

Racing Flat

Transform wrote: »

I would suggest lunges, lunges onto a step, step ups and split squats as farrrr better options as a runner as they will not over work the quads.

All of these exercises work the quads...

And just becaue someone's got a 'tight' muscle group doesn't mean they cannot do strengthening work for that muscle group as long as it's part of a balanced programme.

Racing Flat

Transform wrote: »

I deal with clients 24/7 (30+ sessions a week) and have yet to meet ONE who did NOT start out with some problem with thigh tightness

So maybe they're all normal? If they've all got tightness? If you look for something you'll find it - if you look for tightness you'll find it.

I hate these over generalisations - everybody's got tight hamstrings etc. Need to look at the bigger picture, posture, spine/pelvis position etc. to determine the reason for such tightness (if it exists) and then manage that. I would imagine a lot of runners have tight quads because of the way that they run, rather than just that they run So rather than tell them not to do squats to determine the reason for quads tightness and address that may be more beneficial.

Transform

First off i am not saying don't squat - it should not be the only leg exercise you do.

I do a full evaluation on the clients first ala Charles Poliquin and many physical therapists i have been taught by. So i base my recommendations on what i see most often NOT on wheter someone is doing it with the right technique.

All i am saying is from my experience that the majority of runners i have ever delt with (including myself) have got issues with tight thighs, glutes and calves all of which are in no way helped by doing more squatting. There is a scale of improvement i use with clients

1) ability to perform body weight only single leg exercises
2) Body weight exercises with resistance
3) Then on to double leg (unilateral) exercises.

I see no need to start with more or less any movement e.g. bench press unless you have checked what issues may arise from doing such movement.

It sounds really anal but the most common problems i see are all of the above and shoulder issues e.g. scapular stability, tight traps, rounded shoulders.

Is doing some squats 2-3 days a week going to help a well balanced runner - yes quite rightly

Is doing some squats with imbalances going to help him/her - NO its going to further disimprove the problems unless massage/foam rolling etc is done in conjunction with it.

Now where is the original poster gone in all of this????

bwardrop

Firstly, the OP never mentioned anything about muscle tightness, this is just an assumption you have made. My interpretation of the OP's question was whether or not squatting will interfere with their endurance training ("are squats necessary?" was the gist of it), and my original answer was no - provided they are added in the correct manner at the correct time.

In the post I initially responded to, you state:

Transform wrote: »

Wouldn't do squats as the only direct thigh leg exercise as a runner because with the running the thighs are working overtime already

and subsequently:

Transform wrote: »

I would suggest lunges, lunges onto a step, step ups and split squats as farrrr better options as a runner as they will not over work the quads. Doing some squats every other workout is ok but it purely depends on where you are tight in your legs.

To me, this reads as "squats will over work the quadriceps muscles in someone who runs, but these exercises will not" or as "runners already over work the quads. Squats will exacerbate this problem, but these exercises will not". Either way, it is misleading and incorrect, and my point is still this:

bwardrop wrote: »

Any exercise can overwork the active muscles if it is performed in an inappropriate manner - e.g. volume / intensity is too high. It is totally misleading & incorrect to suggest that squats will be detrimental to running. As I pointed out above, any exercise, including all of the ones you suggested, may be detrimental to performance if performed incorrectly (e.g. intensity / volume / technique is wrong) or the other components of fitness are neglected. After all, these exercises are primarily targeting the same muscles as the squat, so they too could "over work the quads" if performed incorrectly.

It could be a lack of appropriate flexibility training, or perhaps an imbalance in muscle development that is likely to have lead your clients to have muscle tightness, not any particular single exercise.

My point is that it is not the inclusion of squats (or any particular exercise) in a training program that cause the problems you point out. The most likely causes are:

- the exercise(s) are being performed incorrectly
- the exercise(s) are being performed inappropriately
- some other aspect of training has been neglected. You even back me up on this point when you discuss myofacial release.

Finally, unilateral means one sided, bilateral means both sides

Racing Flat

Transform wrote: »

Is doing some squats with imbalances going to help him/her - NO its going to further disimprove the problems unless massage/foam rolling etc is done in conjunction with it.

Not necessarily. You mentioned earlier that most runners have tight ITB. This usually occurs in conjunction with overactive Tensor Fascia Lata and weak posterior fibres of gluteus medius. And may possibly lead to an imbalance around the patella with subsequent inhibition and weakening of the vastus medialis obliqus (VMO) portion of the quads. In this case the aim of treatment would be to restore normal activity or strengthen the posterior fibres of glut med and VMO. For which squatting would be the prescribed exercise?

Once these muscles have strengthened sufficiently and are also recruited appropriately (ie they work when they are supposed to work), the tight ITB may well 'loosen up' of its own accord as the original 'tightness' was more likely neurophysiologically rather than physically maintained.

Similarly in the hamstrings. They are not necessarily physically tight or shortened, but rather they are overactive (neurophysiologiclaly maintained 'tightness') because some other muscles (e.g. gluts) may not be working sufficiently. So rather than stretching their hamstrings, these people should probably be strengthening (although restoring normal activity and recruitment patterns is probably more appropriate - just because you strengthen a muscle such as gluts, it does not necessarily transfer across to function ,ie it styill may not work when it should e.g. as a postural muscle when standing still) their gluts. Yet the amount of people who go to see someone, get told they have tight hamstrings and so they must stretch...or slightly better they may be told to stretch hamstrings and do some glut exercises, but even then, the glut exercises are usally not appropriate enough.

It's quite a complicated area, which has been oversimplified in recent times. Everyone has hopped on the 'core stability' bandwagon and in my opinion there are a fair few people out there wasting their time doing inappropriate exercises, going to core stability/Pilates classes etc.

Rant, rant, the hobby horse etc.

Transform

my mistake on the unilateral point - ranting has its downs.

I totally agree the imbalances are NOT caused by any perticular exercise e.g squats its the use of them when there is an underlying problem.

Take the bench press as another example - would it be a good idea for tennis player to bench 3-4 days per week when he/she is overworking the front delt so much already.

If the glutes need more activation and direct work there are better exercises to target this problem as squats are too general. For example, hip lifts and single leg squats. Hence, recruitment is improved so the individual can return to squatting with better form, depth, balance etc I totally agree the glutes for most people (particularly the piriformis) can be the main issue for lower body imbalances.

There are better exercises for a runner to do other than the squat and no the squat is not the problem its the inculsion of it into a program when there are better exercises to choose from.

Again all i am basing this on is whats working for my clients, the trainers i meet and a quicker resolution of a problem which i know may not even relate to the original posters question. I find the squat an excellent tool for assessing movement and spotting tightness (as are some of the top trainers in the world) so i am a big fan of it when used appropriately.