Parking

samsamson

There was a thread on parking back in March where people heard it might be pay and display, just curious if there's any more info on how parking will work in UCD from September 2008 onwards?

niamherz88

Not sure about pay parking. But the whole parking situation is UCD is a disaster Im from down the country and absolutely had to drive last year but Im seriously opting against it this year. You literally have to be in college for 9am to the dot to get a space and if you any later you spend anything up to an hour driving around like an idiot trying to find someone whos pulling out. Its an abs nightmare. It also got me thinking. Is there really that man students parking there or do others just come, abandon their cars and get the bus into town. Pretty handy facility if you ask me and cheaper than the luas park and ride seeing as it free. Just wondering because if this was the case well then there should be some system brought in to ensure only students get to park for free after all it is a university not a public transport facilty. I know at the start of last year there were security guys checking cards but lets face it this was only periodic and stopped after a few weeks and if you really wanted to avoid them there would be loads of ways to do so. Especially seeing as it was only the main carpark at quinn where this was in operation. Anyway does anyone else have any opinions on this?

elgriff

2 points before people start ranting

- Parking is not a disaster, there are four thousand spaces, not bad for a university in D4, especially looking at DIT and Trinity etc (yes, I know they are in town!).

-Secondly, the council has set 4000 as the max amount of spaces, so there is not much that can be done in that regard.

In my opinion, the ideal situation would be a multi story carpark (purpose being to free up campus space and get rid of ugly, sprawling car-parks). If you could use your stuent card to scan into this, like in the library, it would be a big help to get rid of park and riders. I wouldnt be opposed to a fee of €50-100 to fund this, paid by people who wish to gain access to the carparks.

Vorsprung

niamherz88 wrote: »

Just wondering because if this was the case well then there should be some system brought in to ensure only students get to park for free after all it is a university not a public transport facilty.

What about the staff?

niamherz88

Yeah well obviously for staff too. The point im trying to put across is that it isnt fair for non ucd students/staff to be using the facilty and as a result those who need the parking most end up missing lectures. Its a disaster from that point of view. Also when you say it isnt a disaster have you ever tried to park in the car park at the back of the library building anytime after nine. People just paking anywhere, in between trees, in spaces half the size of regular spaces, I even once seen a guy woth a land rover parked half way up a hill so the car was almost vertical(lucky he had good brakes). It needs to be policed better. The system that operates in the RDS works perfectly and it never takes you more than ten mins to find a space. There are better options. Im in no way implying that there should be more parking but if it was controled better then the problem wouldnt arise.

Riamfada

Regarding the "crazy car park". It has unmarked spaces. If there spaces are to be marked then there would be less places for cars. I have often parked on that hill you refered too. Its great crack. UCD is allocated places according to the number of buildings and not the number of students/staff. Hence the lack of spaces. Its DL/Rathdown CC this should be brought to. I however cant believe that UCD has gone this long without an underground cark park. Id much rather throw 130 euro a year towards that than an unnecessary new student center

niamherz88

Id definetly pay a set amount each year if I could be guaranteed a place in the morning!! Trying to find a space in UCD is tres stressfull!!

Notorious

elgriff wrote: »

- Parking is not a disaster

Did you drive to UCD last year?
Is it just me, or did parking last year seem worse than the previous years? The amount of days I came in for 10.00 to jammed car parks, and cars driving all around the campus looking for a space to free up. Even the places that are out of the way, and that I'd usually be guaranteed a space were filling up.

I don't think the current plan of pay parking is the way forward. An underground or multi-story would be a much better solution. And as Grimes suggested, I'd much prefer to see €300 of my money go to a decent parking solution, than €130 of my money towards a student centre I'll never see.

Riamfada

Parking is alot worse than it has been in previous years. Here is Grimes' suggestion. More kids with cars driving to college. Students have more money and can afford a car.

Vorsprung

There's a recession here and fuel prices are on the up - will probably do more to put people on buses than anything else!

Red Alert

Technically admin and academic staff should be paying tax for their parking as a Benefit in Kind.

I definitely think a controlled access system based either on cards or number plates is needed. I think wholesale parking fees by the hour are disingenuous to people who spend long hours at their work or who put a lot of effort into clubs and societies.

Perhaps college could put pressure on the council rather than acting as an apologist for them.

Riamfada

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

There's a recession here and fuel prices are on the up - will probably do more to put people on buses than anything else!

Jim

I dont know about anyone else here by my car cost 9k. The insurance is 1k. The tax is 454 (give or take). The only way anyone will get me on a bus is if Im dead. Also +5/10 cent on the price of a litre really dosnt make that much of a difference to necessary trips like getting to lectures.

Tayto2000

The BiK thing was what stopped the introduction of blanket pay parking along with the discovery that it's not park and riders causing the problems... As Grimes pointed, out it's the fact that many students drive now than used to and everyone expects to be able to park on demand. Don't forget as well that a lot of faculties have now moved to Belfield bringing their staff and students with them...

Pay parking wouldn't increase the available spaces it would just make the situation worse for those trying to find space in the mornings as it is because then they're paying for the privilege of circling the grounds for 30mins+... And the increase in costs lately for running a car just increases the sense of entitlement to a space that owners feel...

Reducing car use and improving alternative methods has to be done hand in hand. There's still nothing as basic as a secure lock up area for bicycles or ptws even. And has anyone here even heard of the car sharing plan for UCD? It's had practically no exposure at all...

dajaffa

Dun Laoighre Rathdown haven't refused more spaces, they've refused that more land be allocated to parking: ie if UCD want more spaces then they have to go multi-storey. If you put all the car parks in UCD together it'd be the size of Trinity college :O

Anyway about 3 years ago the University Governing Authority approved paid parking being brought in, but it hasn't happened yet as there's big unrest from both staff and student unions. The staff unions proposed an alternate system where car parks would be allocated to either staff or students (they wanted staff to have a lot more spaces...) but it was refused.

What annoys me most is that UCD make decisions about parking without any data to back it up. Galway recently opted for designated staff or student car parks, but had 10 years of data of how far people were driving to college, where they were coming from etc, but UCD isn't arsed with that and just wants to implement paid parking and hope it eases the pressure. Don't think it'll be happening by next September anyway but stranger things have happened...

Ernie Ball

dajaffa wrote: »

What annoys me most is that UCD make decisions about parking without any data to back it up. Galway recently opted for designated staff or student car parks, but had 10 years of data of how far people were driving to college, where they were coming from etc, but UCD isn't arsed with that and just wants to implement paid parking and hope it eases the pressure.

True. By now we should be used to the Brady modus operandi: it's all about the money. They obviously don't care about staff and students wasting hours driving in circles. They only care about finding a way to monetise that frustration. Which is why they came up with the most costly and least practical 'solution' (50 cents/hour with electronic metering) which they had to know would never fly with the unions. And what, exactly, have they done since then? Have they so much as acknowledged that there is a problem and that it is their responsibility to work with the unions to solve it?

Folks, this is not the way normal, competent administrations operate.

Tayto2000

There is a ray of hope on the horizon, multistoreys are definitely coming in now. The first will be getting built as part of the new student centre as it was a condition of planning permission. You can see part of it on the SU promo literature for the new centre, it'll be going where the astro hockey pitch is now.

At least a year away though, more probably two...

Tbh I think that as far as Brady is concerned, drivers on campus are essentially a very vocal minority... Based on the number of spaces vs college attendees daily, ~90% of staff and students aren't affected as they're not driving...

Ernie Ball

Tayto2000 wrote: »

There is a ray of hope on the horizon, multistoreys are definitely coming in now. The first will be getting built as part of the new student centre as it was a condition of planning permission. You can see part of it on the SU promo literature for the new centre, it'll be going where the astro hockey pitch is now.

At least a year away though, more probably two...

Tbh I think that as far as Brady is concerned, drivers on campus are essentially a very vocal minority... Based on the number of spaces vs college attendees daily, ~90% of staff and students aren't affected as they're not driving...

Where'd you get that figure? I don't believe you're even close to correct.

Not to mention the fact that some of those drivers circling around looking for spaces are lecturers. If they can't find a space, an entire lecture theatre may be full of students with nothing to do.

Blut

I remember seeing one of my lecturers circling around two years ago for about 30min, ran into him multiple times as I also drove around looking for spaces. What a waste of a senior lecturers time, 30min driving around looking for spaces. A few multi-story pay&display carparks (to fund themselves at least) are really the only reasonable solution.

Tayto2000

Ernie Ball wrote: »

Where'd you get that figure? I don't believe you're even close to correct.

Not to mention the fact that some of those drivers circling around looking for spaces are lecturers. If they can't find a space, an entire lecture theatre may be full of students with nothing to do.

Rough and ready I'll admit, but look at the number of spaces vs number of people coming onto campus on a given term day. With ~3500 spaces and ~30,000 people, car parking is very much for the minority.

Multistoreys won't cure the problem themselves, I'm convinced that eventually we'll go the Galway way, with reserved staff spaces... There's been a move towards that with the new high rate pay and display spaces beside health sciences, they're intended for lecturers I think.

Red Alert

Surely if Chairman Hugh wants the researchers of the university to continue making high output and putting us into the 'top 100' he croons about so often, he should be letting us actually come in and do research without having to worry about having the car clamped.

I'm sure the admin staff who are coming up with this nonsense will also lump their own parking in with that of the academic staff. I can't seem them putting their own noses out of joint.

lemon_sherbert

I wish they'd introduce a parking pass instead of pay and display, something along the line of the systems that are in place in sports clubs and shopping centres, where you could buy a monthly/annual pass, that entitled you to a certain amount of entries. It would be a fairer compromise, giving the administration payment, but something more along the lines of a student budget.
I just got my driving test too...:(

Ernie Ball

lemon_sherbert wrote: »

I wish they'd introduce a parking pass instead of pay and display, something along the line of the systems that are in place in sports clubs and shopping centres, where you could buy a monthly/annual pass, that entitled you to a certain amount of entries. It would be a fairer compromise, giving the administration payment, but something more along the lines of a student budget.
I just got my driving test too...:(

Why does the administration need 'payment' and why should staff consent to this?

lemon_sherbert

I just meant if they are going to charge us, there are fairer alternatives

Tayto2000

Ernie Ball wrote: »

Why does the administration need 'payment' and why should staff consent to this?

Probably because we are in a 3rd level funding hole that is not likely to get any better soon and all colleges are casting about for revenue streams. That's one reason for the current obsession with research imo, it brings in grant money...

Since government funding levels for 3rd level institutions decreased during the boom years I can hardly see Cowen et al increasing available funds during a recession. Look out for yet another bump in the registration fee next year as well...

Reserved car parks/multistoreys for staff, with pay and display or better still a permit system for students would probably work but they're still stuck over the benefit in kind bit. If students have to pay for what staff get for free, it's a benefit.

Shazbot

Tayto2000 wrote: »

That's one reason for the current obsession with research imo, it brings in grant money...

And the fact that research brings about new discoveries, answers questions and can have countless knock on effects with further research. For example, one researchers papear on certain biological system could lead to further research in pharmacology and lead to the development of new drugs.

Personally I never found parking a problem, mainly becuase all my days start at 9. I would welcome a multi story car park to alleviate the hassle that others suffer. The idea of a subterraining car park, mentioned early, is rediculous. Alot more work than building up. Although this would probably be built long after I'm gone.

Tayto2000

Shazbot wrote: »

And the fact that research brings about new discoveries, answers questions and can have countless knock on effects with further research. For example, one researchers papear on certain biological system could lead to further research in pharmacology and lead to the development of new drugs.

Sorry, maybe I sounded a bit negative there, I'm very much in favour of research in UCD and I agree with you, it's vital to the college. But it really shouldn't be necessary to reconfigure the college to maximise income from this area and research along with teaching is still being inhibited by a lack of proper funding to 3rd level as a whole.

Back to subject though... I'm usually in by half eight myself and only drive maybe once or twice a month, so I'm not really bothered by the parking situation anymore really...

Ernie Ball

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I sounded a bit negative there, I'm very much in favour of research in UCD and I agree with you, it's vital to the college. But it really shouldn't be necessary to reconfigure the college to maximise income from this area and research along with teaching is still being inhibited by a lack of proper funding to 3rd level as a whole.

The problem here is that the research that is being encouraged is precisely the research that brings in money (cough, big pharma, cough) and not research for its own sake.

As for parking as a revenue stream: that is an argument, I suppose, for charging students for parking, but not staff. It has the virtue of being progressive (those who can afford it most will pay the most) but will also introduce some anomalies for poor students who live away from public transport.

But all of this speaks to the major distortions in university education and functioning that arise when students don't pay fees and the government doesn't fund 3rd level adequately. A well-administered scaled fee system is infinitely preferable to all the sneakiness and back-door fees (to say nothing of perversion of the university's mission) that the current system all but insures. You'd think students would recognise this instead of marching to government buildings whenever the idea of fees is mooted. But nooooooo....

Ginny

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Multistoreys won't cure the problem themselves, I'm convinced that eventually we'll go the Galway way, with reserved staff spaces... There's been a move towards that with the new high rate pay and display spaces beside health sciences, they're intended for lecturers I think.

Nope, they're there to ensure that there is spaces available for people dropping off samples to the MBRS.

Tayto2000

I'm not referring to the MBRS reserved spaces with the barrier, I mean the yellow outlined pay and display spaces beside them. They're short term P&D, something like €5 an hour.

Ginny

Yes they are for the Garda, the reserved MBRS spaces are for the MBRS staff.
the yellow spaces are pay and display so when the garda or someone else comes to leave a sample off there's more then likely spaces free in the pay and display, thats why the rates are so high.

breadmonkey

Ernie Ball wrote: »

The problem here is that the research that is being encouraged is precisely the research that brings in money (cough, big pharma, cough) and not research for its own sake.

Come on Ernie, pretty much all research is of this kind.

Tayto2000

GinnyJo wrote: »

Yes they are for the Garda, the reserved MBRS spaces are for the MBRS staff.
the yellow spaces are pay and display so when the garda or someone else comes to leave a sample off there's more then likely spaces free in the pay and display, thats why the rates are so high.

Sorry but I'm not buying that. Gardai have no requirement for a parking space when dropping off a sample, it doesn't take an hour to walk in then back out again! They generally just pull up outside as far as I can see and anyway can you really see the clampers doing a garda car?

On the other hand there was a lot of extra hassle with visiting lecturers from hospitals being unable to find spaces in time to deliver their lectures in health sciences last year, short term high cost pay and display would solve that for the reasons you gave.

Ginny

Buy it or not that is the reason its there, just yesterday there was 2 Garda cars parked there waiting for samples.
It does not take 2 seconds to drop in and log samples its slightly more complicated then that, and whilst they're doing that they need somewhere to park so they will not block up the access to the carpark.
There's loads of other places visiting lectures give their classes on campus, and funnily enough there isn't high cost pay and display parking there, but if you want to believe in conspiracy theories go ahead.

Tayto2000

Hmmm, somthing is telling me you might be based in MBRS? In that case I shall bow to your superior knowledge of the area...

Ginny

Nah not based there, I know it well enough though..:D

Ernie Ball

breadmonkey wrote: »

Come on Ernie, pretty much all research is of this kind.

That comment bespeaks a far too narrow conception of research. For one thing, it excludes the research of the entire faculties of Arts & Celtic Studies and Social Sciences. For another, it shows a woeful understanding of what a University is: a domain for pure research, that is not carried out either for its applications or its cash value.

breadmonkey

Ernie Ball wrote: »

That comment bespeaks a far too narrow conception of research. For one thing, it excludes the research of the entire faculties of Arts & Celtic Studies and Social Sciences. For another, it shows a woeful understanding of what a University is: a domain for pure research, that is not carried out either for its applications or its cash value.

It's easier to get funding for research with immediate benefits. You can keep your head in the clouds and preach about what "should" be or you can accept the reality that is capitalism.

Ernie Ball

breadmonkey wrote: »

It's easier to get funding for research with immediate benefits. You can keep your head in the clouds and preach about what "should" be or you can accept the reality that is capitalism.

Go and educate yourself about what universities are and what principles they are founded upon and then, maybe, you can start a conversation with me about capitalism and its predations.

Meanwhile, I note that your comments here are incoherent: first you say that 'all research' is research for money (ignoring that whole faculties do research that has no financial payoff). Now you're saying that 'it's easier to get funding for research with immediate benefits,' which is a non sequitur that nobody would deny.

breadmonkey

Meanwhile, I note that your comments here are incoherent: first you say that 'all research' is research for money (ignoring that whole faculties do research that has no financial payoff). Now you're saying that 'it's easier to get funding for research with immediate benefits,' which is a non sequitur that nobody would deny

Well clap clap for taking "all research" out of the following sentence.

me wrote:

Come on Ernie, pretty much all research is of this kind.

Since you seem unable to join the dots between the two sentences in question, allow me to spell it out for you:

Come on Ernie, pretty much all research is of this kind because it's easier to get funding for research with immediate benefits. (So you can see that this is the type of research that is being encouraged, yes?)

I can see how the absence of a conjunction could throw you off.:rolleyes:

Anyway I'm not going to pander to your weird compulsion to be devil's advocate and drag this thread further off topic.

Sarn

Tayto2000 wrote: »

...they're still stuck over the benefit in kind bit. If students have to pay for what staff get for free, it's a benefit.

Parking spaces for employees are not subject to BIK. There was a threat of it happening back in '98 which is why they got rid of the UCD car stickers (proved useful if anything happened to your car). Although they are talking about introducing it again to reduce congestion in the city centres.

One way to free up spaces is to have the gardai waiting at all the entrances for unaccompanied provisional licence holders. :P

Breezer

Sarn wrote: »

One way to free up spaces is to have the gardai waiting at all the entrances for unaccompanied provisional licence holders. :P

I like it! Easily as lucrative as sitting on the M50 with a speed gun!