Irish Building Control Institute

RKQ

Should we join the IBCI?
Its a national Institute, made up of Fire Officers, Engineers,Chartered Surveyors, County Council Engineers and Technicians.
It had a very clear route to membership.
It is affilliated to European Building Control Associations.
Check out http://www.i-b-c-i.ie/conf.html

It cost €30-00 per year!
Yes, its incredibily low cost to join.
The IBCI is accepted by AIB for certification!
(Could the IATGN take a feather out of its cap? re: membership fee & AIB!)

The Portloaise 10 applied but were told that the IBCI is revising its membership requirements. Awful pity but I remain positive.
I understand the application form is still downloadable from their web site.

I think its still worth considering as they hold a yearly conference €300, to discuss changes to Building Control. We have had alot of complicated changes over the last few years. Document B & L comes to mind.
This is a excellent way to update your knowledge and discuss daily issues with fire officers etc... sort of joining the Dark Side for a day or two - great help if you are self employed.

Inspection, design and certification of compliance with Building Control is still one of our main roles. Just look at their Conference material - very helpful pdf.

Can an Institude "change" its own membership routes / rules without notice? While still displaying their membership form on their web site?

The more I get into this the more layers I find and the more worried I become!

I never wanted to form an alternative to the IATGN, I just wanted to do something.

I hope IATGN can do something soon, five years could be four years too late! Its failure to tackle relevant issues (AIB) and closure of its forum could prove fatal.
Yet, like No.6 I am prepared to wait and keep the faith!

One things for sure, we really need this forum, to communicate, pass on knowledge, swap ideas, experiences and try and incourage our workmates, friends, associates etc to get involved...... we need to move forward together.

sinnerboy

Sounds good RKQ . Lets know if the joining criteria is clarified . Looking at the application form ( on their homepage ) you would imagine that AT's would be welcomed .

No6

Any word from those who know some of the people in the IBCI

Poor Uncle Tom

No changes there tey guys. I am told it will take until late September before they will have the new criteria for membership. I suspect, again from what I am told, that they are introducing a 10 year rule for those without a degree. I will update when I know more.

No6

is that going to be level 8 degrees???:rolleyes:

Poor Uncle Tom

Dont Know, No.6, will find out.

RKQ

No6 wrote: »

Any word from those who know some of the people in the IBCI

Anyone ever hear back from the IBCI?
I seem to remember that changes to their application requirments were to be announced.

sydthebeat

we, in our office, never heard a dicky bird back from them....

Its a strange setup though, when an association has no address, no contact phone number, no advertised joining criteria but yet are accepted as being an 'accrediated association' by the AIB...!!?!?!?!? :eek:

No6

Not strange Syd its very Irish!!!

Poor Uncle Tom

I'll see if I can get an update, I got a contact name, address and phone number downstairs. They told me I would know by last September...:eek:

Poor Uncle Tom

No reply at the phone number I have, all afternoon yesterday I was knocking, no answer. I dropped him a letter yesterday evening, he answered the last one within a week. I will be back.

muffler

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I'll be back.

Cheers Arnie

topcatcbr

Would this not be restricted to professionals employed as Building Control Officers.

RKQ

topcatcbr wrote: »

Would this not be restricted to professionals employed as Building Control Officers.

No. Their membership requirements were quite straight forward and were list on their site. Might still be!
Check out http://www.i-b-c-i.ie/conf.html

I received an invite to join afew years ago. It was so cheap to join, about £20, I thought it was a con! More fool me!:D
Wish I could find that letter now.

Poor Uncle Tom

Bump.:cool:

Just got my reply,

Associate: Ordinary Degree (Level 7) or equivalent in architecture, eng....and be engaged in carrying out building control activities and be over 20 years of age.

Member: Honors Degree (Level 8) or equivalent in architecture, eng...and be engaged in carrying out building control activities and be over 25 years of age and have at least 2 years post grad experience.

No6

They were reviewing their entry criteria last year, have they done this yet or was this their old criteria??

Poor Uncle Tom

This is fresh off the press, No.6.

Changes to IBCI Bye-Laws on Membership adopted by the EGM held in the Bloomfield House Hotel, Tullamore Road, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath on Friday, 7th November, 2008.

1.1 Associate

At the time of application, each candidate for election to the class of Associate shall:
(a) be not less then 20 years of age, and
(b) possess an Ordinary Degree (Level 7) or equivolant in architecture, engineering, or other relevant discipline, satisfactory to the Council, and
(c) be engaged in carrying out Building Control responsibilities of a nature satisfactory to the Council.

1.2 Member

At the time of application, each candidate for election to the class of Member shall:
(a)
1. be not less then 25 years of age, and
2. posses an Honours Degree (Level 8) or equivolent in architecture, engineering, or other relevant disepline, satisfactory to the council, and
3. be engaged in carrying out Building Control responsibilities of a nature satisfactory to the Council, and
4. have at least 2 years satisfactory post-graduate experience in carrying out such Building Control responsibilities.

or,

(b)
1. be not less then 35 years of age, and
2. be a member of the institute at the grade of Associate for the previous 5 years, and
3. at the time of application for transfer to Member, be engaged in carrying out Building Control responsibilities of a nature satisfactory to the Council, and
4. have at least 10 years experience in carrying out such responsibilities.

1.3 Fellow

At the time of nomination, each candidate eligible for transfer to the class of Fellow shall:
(a) be not less then 35 years of age, and
(b) be a member of the institute at the grade of Member for the previous 5 years, and
(c) have, in the opinion of the Council, made a significant contribution to the institute.

RKQ

Great news - when does this start?
November 2008 was quite a while ago. Circa 5 months
I assumed those that applied last May would hear from the IBCI.

Still its another choice for Arch Techs, as its based in Ireland and holds a weekend conference on Building Control - which has got to be a great CPD!

Just found out today that the final date to book this months annual Conference in Ballyconnell, Co. Cavan was yesterday 13th March!

(Cost circa €370 for 2 days - hotel room cost circa €75 per night - PM for details)

archtech

Definitely worth making an application.

Poor Uncle Tom

Did last year,
Refused entry last Thursday:(

No6

Yet again the famous level 7 qualification rears its ugly head, How many of us have level 8 (i know a few down the waterford direction do!) We can now be associates whoo hooo!!! for 5 years before becoming members. Just what I always wanted!!!

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

Yet again the famous level 7 qualification rears its ugly head, How many of us have level 8 (i know a few down the waterford direction do!) We can now be associates whoo hooo!!! for 5 years before becoming members. Just what I always wanted!!!

I have level nine but i am sticking with the CIAT. I believe that IBCI is only a sticking plaster for Technicians in order for the AIB to accept certificates. I think with the slow down in our industry we need to look at the big picture and plan for when things finally pick up again in the future. It's important not to be caught out again!

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

I have level nine but i am sticking with the CIAT. I believe that IBCI is only a sticking plaster for Technicians in order for the AIB to accept certificates. I think with the slow down in our industry we need to look at the big picture and plan for when things finally pick up again in the future. It's important not to be caught out again!

Bravo I agree 100%. The IBCI is not what we are about (most of us). We are not building control officers.

There is a place for everything and everything in its place. This is not the place for us. Just my opinion.

archtech

topcatcbr wrote: »

Bravo I agree 100%. The IBCI is not what we are about (most of us). We are not building control officers.

There is a place for everything and everything in its place. This is not the place for us. Just my opinion.

I don't believe that IBCI should be our sole representative body, but for anyone involved in making submissions to the building control authority, it may be no harm to be a member of its representative body, if eligible to join and the cost is minimal. Furthermore one would never know what one might learn, particularly if looking at things from a different side of the fence/perspective. Membership could also be useful, in having the edge for competitiveness, if it opens doors to CPD/information events on how the building control authorities are going to assess new or revised regulations.

It should not be a case of us and them in terms of building control, at the end of the day we are all aiming to achieve the same thing.

muffler

topcatcbr wrote: »

Bravo I agree 100%. The IBCI is not what we are about (most of us). We are not building control officers.

There is a place for everything and everything in its place. This is not the place for us. Just my opinion.

I dont think anyone ever suggested that they would in any way represent us. its still no harm though to have an extra poker in the fire.

ConfusedTech

Hey guys. Believe it or not, only just noted this post!!!

As a member of the Portlaoise 10, I submitted an application to the IBCI, in fact not as a route to certification, but once I read their site I really thought that what they were about was closer to me then what many of the other institutions offered.

I saw that there was a good grounds there to get good CPDs, courses and also get invovled in possibly setting up more. IN my opinion there was a good synergy.

One year on, I got my reply and got turned down by the institution, as they changed their entry criteria, as noted above. I can only say that I am not happy with this approach, as I made my application under the criteria set out on their own forms at the time.

I will be taking this up with them, as I find it very discriminating, and yet another let-down in my own path to becoming a professional member somewhere!

ConfusedTech

Does anybody know who governs institutions like this one, as I would like to get advise on whether or not this is accepted practice by institutions?

pseudo-tech

ConfusedTech wrote: »

Hey guys. Believe it or not, only just noted this post!!!

As a member of the Portlaoise 10, I submitted an application to the IBCI, in fact not as a route to certification, but once I read their site I really thought that what they were about was closer to me then what many of the other institutions offered.

I saw that there was a good grounds there to get good CPDs, courses and also get invovled in possibly setting up more. IN my opinion there was a good synergy.

One year on, I got my reply and got turned down by the institution, as they changed their entry criteria, as noted above. I can only say that I am not happy with this approach, as I made my application under the criteria set out on their own forms at the time.

I will be taking this up with them, as I find it very discriminating, and yet another let-down in my own path to becoming a professional member somewhere!

There are a lot of holes in their entry criteria. You could nearly drive a bus through it. Terms like "to the satisfaction of the Council...or equivalent... satisfactory experience" etc. etc. They have really set it up to change the goal posts as they wish. Its wrong really!!

RKQ

archtech wrote: »

I don't believe that IBCI should be our sole representative body, but for anyone involved in making submissions to the building control authority, it may be no harm to be a member of its representative body, if eligible to join and the cost is minimal.

It should not be a case of us and them in terms of building control, at the end of the day we are all aiming to achieve the same thing.

I'd agree with that. Building Control goes hand in hand with certificates of compliance etc. It would be a useful organisation to be a member of, based in Ireland and interpeting Irish Building Regulations.

Its revision of its membership criteria has been disappointing and I'd agree with ConfusedTech. I understand that Technicians employed by Councils were eligible for membership but don't seem to accommodated in the new criteria, which seems abit odd as Council Tech's are graded for salary scale etc so setting a criteria for membership to IBCI would seem quite simple.

pseudo-tech

RKQ wrote: »

I'd agree with that. Building Control goes hand in hand with certificates of compliance etc. It would be a useful organisation to be a member of, based in Ireland and interpeting Irish Building Regulations.

Technicians who implement Building regulations should be central to the formation of them. It would be great if that could happen.

No6

What I always found strange was that they were included on the AIB's list of approved bodies when in reality they appear to be all in the public service? Surely as public servants they are prohibited from doing nixer type work! I also agree with some of the posts above it would be a useful body to be a member of to get direct access to the CPD etc, they seem to have good access to dept officials but they seem to be more interested in keeping a closed membership!! in which case I have no interest in having anything further to do with them. Confused tech perhaps you could start with the competition authority, probably woulnt work but you never know.

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

What I always found strange was that they were included on the AIB's list of approved bodies when in reality they appear to be all in the public service? Surely as public servants they are prohibited from doing nixer type work!

They are prohibited but they do!

No6 wrote: »

I also agree with some of the posts above it would be a useful body to be a member of to get direct access to the CPD etc, they seem to have good access to dept officials but they seem to be more interested in keeping a closed membership!!

Another feather for the cap No.6.

No6 wrote: »

in which case I have no interest in having anything further to do with them. Confused tech perhaps you could start with the competition authority, probably woulnt work but you never know.

Again, i feel the answer is for all of use to join a single organisation and pomote it to a position where we are not picking up scraps and joining any organisation that might protect us! We need to look at the big picture.

RKQ

I assume they were accepted by AIB because they made representations to AIB! I assume AIB took notice of all professional bodies, especially those so closely associated with Compliance with Building Control.

I agree that its strange as they are Public sector but remember that their membership criteria was more open when they were accepted by AIB.

Maybe we should join, learn and try to change the criteria from within!
I'm sure it is a democratic organisation that sets "motion" to debate or change etc. It voted on its current criteria last November - pity we didn't have a voice at that meeting.

As a self employed individual at the coal face of site inspection - I see IBCI as a worthwhile organisation especially regarding certification, interpetation of Building Regulations and compliance etc. Its two day weekend seminars are great CPD - dealing with new and upcoming changes to the Regulations.

Who with enforce or train "airthightness" details / good practice on site?
Airtight membrane to floor joists etc. Building Inspectors rarely visit domestic sites so we will be forced to take up the flak and explain new methods and practices.:eek:

No6

RKQ wrote: »

Who with enforce or train "airthightness" details / good practice on site?
Airtight membrane to floor joists etc. Building Inspectors rarely visit domestic sites so we will be forced to take up the flak and explain new methods and practices.:eek:

But will we get paid for all this teaching, I dont think so, IMO this country is grossly overregulated and totally lacking in any enforcement which results in a utterly fruitless situation of people like us trying to encourage good standards in detailing, use of materials etc and then being totally ignored by everybody. If we are "experts" in the Technology of Architecture and Building Regulation why does nobody except ourselves recognise this.:mad:

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

But will we get paid for all this teaching, I dont think so, IMO this country is grossly overregulated and totally lacking in any enforcement which results in a utterly fruitless situation of people like us trying to encourage good standards in detailing, use of materials etc and then being totally ignored by everybody. If we are "experts" in the Technology of Architecture and Building Regulation why does nobody except ourselves recognise this.:mad:

Could not agree more!!!

RKQ

No6 wrote: »

But will we get paid for all this teaching, I dont think so, :mad:

Of course not.... we are alone in this battle, as usual and it has the potential to be a big battle.

Homebond has broken the ice at its seminars but unfortunately there are many Carpenters, Blocklayers and Plasterers that don't attend Homebond seminars! They certainly don't spent there free time downloading new work practices / details, off the Dept of Envirnoments website.

We are expected to teach and battle to ensure Compliance. The Government, the banks, building control etc don't care as long as the building complies so its assumed we'll do the necessary to ensure it complies! Hence we have little option.

pseudo-tech

RKQ wrote: »

Of course not.... we are alone in this battle, as usual and it has the potential to be a big battle.

Homebond has broken the ice at its seminars but unfortunately there are many Carpenters, Blocklayers and Plasterers that don't attend Homebond seminars! They certainly don't spent there free time downloading new work practices / details, off the Dept of Envirnoments website.

We are expected to teach and battle to ensure Compliance. The Government, the banks, building control etc don't care as long as the building complies so its assumed we'll do the necessary to ensure it complies! Hence we have little option.

Isn't it amazing what is expected of us and a number of us are still having problems with solicitors and banks. You will see that a lot of the acceptable professions will be left wanting in this area and our profession will be expected to be the expert but without recognition :mad: :mad:

ConfusedTech

RKQ, good points, and I think that I have one of the answers as to why the AIB has listed them. It seems that the institute has ties, possibly close ties with the RIAI. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other points, I would like to emphasise what some posters have said here. This institution is at the forefront of building compliance, building regulations, planning etc. Is this not an institution that we could offer a lot to, and to whom we can get a lot from??? It could be an institution that we could grow with! Forget about who they are and whether or not they should be certifying, and forget about the certification issue. Representation is what we should seek, and with representation, correct guidance and acceptance of certiification will follow.

This is not a campaign!!!

No6

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Isn't it amazing what is expected of us and a number of us are still having problems with solicitors and banks. You will see that a lot of the acceptable professions will be left wanting in this area and our profession will be expected to be the expert but without recognition :mad: :mad:

And we can't even join the IBCI as full members!!!!:D

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

And we can't even join the IBCI as full members!!!!:D

Its a joke really!!

RKQ

This is a criteria that has been set by Building Control Officers and Engineers in local authority employment and FAS. The bar has been set.

Level 8 seems to be the minimum for some reason. IMO this alienates many fine, skilled, experienced and worthy members. Creating a huge loss to this organisation and a loss opertunity for all. Ability is rarely refelected in academic qualifications - its the post grad experience that creates the real Professional.

Do not be surprised if you see a similar "criteria" in the near future for similar organisations.

Poor Uncle Tom

If somebody were to approach the IBCI and simply point out what has been discussed as above and get an official reaction.....

Well unless or until an approach of some sort is made, isn't this discussion acedemic.

RKQ

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Well unless or until an approach of some sort is made, isn't this discussion acedemic.

In a word, No.
I would be very surprised if the Officers of the IBCI are not fully aware of this thread. Many organisations and individuals read this public forum.

I believe that the leading members of the IBCI are very approachable, friendly and very helpful individuals.

As the old advert said "Its good to talk". We have nothing to fear from honest discussion, if we did this whole forum would be academic.

Poor Uncle Tom

So, let me get this straight, you believe that by simply airing your views here you could be affecting change where you want it?:)

I'm sorry, RKQ, I believe in the more direct approach of discussion face to face, not shouting into the ether hopeing someone hears.

RKQ

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

So, let me get this straight, you believe that by simply airing your views here you could be affecting change where you want it?:)

What makes you think that?
Uncle Tom,You have me completely wrong!
Read my posts above, my opinion is clear.

As a member of the Portlaoise10 you are fully aware that I'm about action, direct communication and achieving results.

Hiding away just isn't my style. I am not into negative propaganda, self promotion, little clubs, cliques or them and us ideals.

I am about openess, unity and sharing information and professionalism.:D
I'm sorry Uncle Tom but I am not going to discuss my current communications on a public forum.

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

As a member of the Portlaoise10 you are fully aware that I'm about action, direct communication and achieving results.

Sweet Jesus. Martyrs are we?

Post something positive for a change instead of the usual and repetitive negative dribble that you and your sidekick are involved in.

RKQ

muffler wrote: »

Sweet Jesus. Martyrs are we?

Post something positive for a change instead of the usual and repetitive negative dribble that you and your sidekick are involved in.

You call this a positive contribution?

ConfusedTech

Lads, back to the topic please!!!

Just to let you know, I note that I am aware of a number of responses already made to the institution directly in relation to the posts above. I will see if I can get any information back from these to positively progress this.

I wont talk down what we dont know yet.

I would agree that they should be approachable people, and we should possibly ask for a response. Give it a few weeks and I will talk to a few people and see what has been sent back.

sydthebeat

i am planning on sending an application to the IBCI.

according to their entrance criteria i comply to both (a) and (b) for associate membership
(c) seems to be a very subjective criterion, but one i can argue with great confidence (due to the fact that i am basically part of the building control industry in ireland)....

muffler

Stick my name on that too syd

pseudo-tech

sydthebeat wrote: »

i am planning on sending an application to the IBCI.

according to their entrance criteria i comply to both (a) and (b) for associate membership
(c) seems to be a very subjective criterion, but one i can argue with great confidence (due to the fact that i am basically part of the building control industry in ireland)....

Best of luck with that Syd. You might let us know how you get on?