New Focus RS

h3000

autoexpress.co.uk wrote:

Focus RS unleashed at last
The long wait is nearly over... We have exclusive pictures and all the details on the fastest Focus Ford has ever produced.

Link

It looks class should be very interesting. Still no four wheel drive though.

NinjaTruncs

looks awful imo, very boy racer look, unlike the current understated version.

pburns

h3000 wrote: »

It looks class should be very interesting. Still no four wheel drive though.

I agree with NinjaTruncs - looks like a dog's dinner.

Will probably be dynamically excellent though and at least it'll make it easier to spot chavs;)...

Eoin

That's disgusting looking. The colour doesn't help much, but that's only the start.

Zube

t least 280bhp and more than 400Nm of torque, ensuring blistering straight-line pace. However, the big news is the confirmation from Ford that the RS will be front-wheel drive. Bosses at the blue oval’s Team RS performance arm decided that the extra weight, cost and complexity of four-wheel drive wasn’t necessary.

My hole, they just haven't the cash to do it properly. This thing will light up the traction control on the way to the shops.

Fizman

280 hp on a FWD hatch back? From the factory? Isn't that a bit silly, seeing as (as far as i'm aware) 230-240hp is the optimum level FWD can perform at?!

Not overly impressed to be honest. Design is too over-stated for me...and as for that green :eek:

h3000

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

looks awful imo, very boy racer look, unlike the current understated version.

pburns wrote: »

I agree with NinjaTruncs - looks like a dog's dinner.

Will probably be dynamically excellent though and at least it'll make it easier to spot chavs;)...

eoin_s wrote: »

That's disgusting looking. The colour doesn't help much, but that's only the start.

I still like it a lot. The colour does make it look a lot more larey than it would in blue or black.

It is a RS Ford afterall, they were never particuraly known to be tame in the looks department remember the Escort RS Cosworth (my fav car of all time by the way).

Whatever about the looks it should make a great car, hopefully a better road car than the last Focus RS.

SuprSi

Hmmm, seems like a waste of power. They should at least have gone with rear-wheel drive. Don't like the look of it anyway.

Zube

h3000 wrote: »

Whatever about the looks it should make a great car, hopefully a better road car than the last Focus RS.

The last one was 4WD, this one is going to try putting 280 bhp and 400 Nm of torque through the front wheels: no chance.

Henry Ford III

Zube wrote: »

The last one was 4WD, this one is going to try putting 280 bhp and 400 Nm of torque through the front wheels: no chance.

No it wasn't.

omega man

Fizman wrote: »

280 hp on a FWD hatch back? From the factory? Isn't that a bit silly, seeing as (as far as i'm aware) 230-240hp is the optimum level FWD can perform at?!

Not overly impressed to be honest. Design is too over-stated for me...and as for that green :eek:

Not suprised at all that its FWD. No mention of a Limited Slip Dif.? As an owner of the 3 MPS with 260bhp i feel it handles the power good enough but the LSD plays a part in that. 280bhp seems a bit excessive in a FWD alright.

Zube

Henry Ford III wrote: »

No it wasn't.

I stand corrected.

Henry Ford III

It will have an advanced lsd apparently.

I wasn't a huge fan of the last Focus RS tbh. Very nervous twitchy car, with rock hard suspension, and it was very expensive too. Quick though, and at home on a smooth track.

The ST was much better in Irish road conditions imho.

h3000

h3000 wrote: »

Link

It looks class should be very interesting. Still no four wheel drive though.

They mentioned selling the last RS at a loss was a motivation to build the car entirely in house without all the expensive bits.. Isn't that the the point of a "halo car", to make it affordable showcase boosting the model overall? Even if it means making a loss.

If this was 4wd I would have sold a kidney to buy one.

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It will have an advanced lsd apparently.

I wasn't a huge fan of the last Focus RS tbh. Very nervous twitchy car, with rock hard suspension, and it was very expensive too. Quick though, and at home on a smooth track.

The ST was much better in Irish road conditions imho.

I never actually drove one of the last RS's, but even today, on the odd occasion I see one, I think its a superb looking hatch, still looks as fresh as ever.
I remember it retailed around the 36-38k mark new here? I guess it seemed pricey at the time, but the original ST was much worse value for money if I remember...

Henry Ford III

JoeA3 wrote: »

I never actually drove one of the last RS's, but even today, on the odd occasion I see one, I think its a superb looking hatch, still looks as fresh as ever.
I remember it retailed around the 36-38k mark new here? I guess it seemed pricey at the time, but the original ST was much worse value for money if I remember...

The RS was a lot more €48k was in my mind. An ST could have been had for €35kish. Subject to correction.

JHMEG

This is an excellent video off Fifth Gear comparing the last Focus RS to the Escorth Cosworth.

In this test the Escort is quicker, and while it's old school (which I like) that big feckin duck beak of a wing still screams "chav" all these years later, unfortunately.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/fifth-gear-ford-escort-cosworth-vs-focus-rs/499566678

JoeA3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The RS was a lot more €48k was in my mind. An ST could have been had for €35kish. Subject to correction.

Ahhh, of course I may be thinking in "punts"! I remember seeing a new one in a local dealers in 2002, but of course we were very new to the euro back then.

Plug

Theres a new ford tip-tronic to go with that aswel. Option 6 speed.
Ford where considering 4 wheel drive but it didn't seem to be that way to keep down costs etc:rolleyes: Balls!
Good news is there will be a 4 wheel drive transit with a new 3.2 litre 5 cylinder desial. 200hp:cool:

The rs looks nice in black.

Eoin

That looks like the end result of a modified car, not the starting point that would at least give owners the choice. I'd say it's too much for a lot of people, and Ford have very much narrowed their market.

LegacyUser

Scumbag look to it. Horrible.

Hotwheels

Ford should go back and look at the Escort Cosworth if they want to know how to build a RS Focus...even parked the Escort Cosworth looked fast!

E92

280 bhp being thrust through the front wheels doesn't sound good.

After all the Mazda 3 MPS which uses the same chassis was slated for asking the front wheels to deal with 19 bhp less.

EDIT: Christ on a bike it looks ugly. It could do with far less blingage!

groupb

Autocar tested the last focus RS back to back with an impreza and it was 10mph quicker through corners on a track.

Zube

groupb wrote: »

Autocar tested the last focus RS back to back with an impreza and it was 10mph quicker through corners on a track.

The UK mags slobber over anything with a Ford badge, even though Ford haven't made any actual cars in the UK for years now. Dickheads.

groupb

Have you driven one?

Zube

groupb wrote: »

Have you driven one?

I just bought a new Ford, if you're talking to me.

No-one has driven a new Focus RS yet, bar a few media ****.

lafors

Those images of the green thing are just that, images. They ain't no photos, just mock up drawings. Now the camo pics are real obviously.

Henry Ford III

Zube wrote: »

I just bought a new Ford, if you're talking to me.

No-one has driven a new Focus RS yet, bar a few media ****.

A roadgoing car hasn't been built yet.

focusst225owner

i owned an rs amazing
i own a st even better
i will own a new rs out of this world

craichoe

Looks like someone took it down to Halfords and went crazy ..

Mr.David

I disagree about the whole FWD/4WD thing. Its a good thing that its not 4WD. The maximum power that can effectively be put down through the front wheels is dictated largely by suspension architecture and tuning (as well as electronics and differential technology). This has advanced so far in the last 5 years that 4WD is only now necessary for specific applications.

4WD would add a considerable cost to the car, increase the weight significantly thus affecting economy, emissions, handling etc. 4WD should only be used when necessary and if 2WD can be made to handle/steer competently it is advantageous.

Zube

Mr.David wrote: »

4WD would add a considerable cost to the car, increase the weight significantly thus affecting economy, emissions, handling etc. 4WD should only be used when necessary and if 2WD can be made to handle/steer competently it is advantageous.

Yes, but with 300 bhp to handle it should be Rear Wheel Drive.No-one has even done 250 bhp through the front wheels without corrupting the steering and handling, and now Ford aim to do 300?

bazz26

Zube wrote: »

Yes, but with 300 bhp to handle it should be Rear Wheel Drive.No-one has even done 250 bhp through the front wheels without corrupting the steering and handling, and now Ford aim to do 300?

Considering the RS is going to be competing with the likes of the EVO X and Impreza STi on power then maybe 4wd should have been the wiser choice.

We will have to wait and see though.

cpoh1

Mr.David wrote: »

I disagree about the whole FWD/4WD thing. Its a good thing that its not 4WD. The maximum power that can effectively be put down through the front wheels is dictated largely by suspension architecture and tuning (as well as electronics and differential technology). This has advanced so far in the last 5 years that 4WD is only now necessary for specific applications.

4WD would add a considerable cost to the car, increase the weight significantly thus affecting economy, emissions, handling etc. 4WD should only be used when necessary and if 2WD can be made to handle/steer competently it is advantageous.

Try putting 300hp and loads of torque trough the front wheels on a bend at full tilt and no differential technology is going to make it push thorugh that corner as well as a 4WD car, especially in british and Irish weather conditions.


The reason ford didn't go 4WD is because they are strapped for cash and want to make a quick buck from the public. Its the same story with the ST, decent car but could have been so much more if economics didnt come into it. Comparing this car to an evo is a joke.

Mr.David

cpoh1 wrote: »

Comparing this car to an evo is a joke.

Is that maybe slighty premature? obviously 4WD has inherent benefits but lets at least wait and see how it manages. Torque steer has been nearly eliminated anyway so the big area where it will be noticeable it in the rain on a back road.

Zube

Mr.David wrote: »

Torque steer has been nearly eliminated anyway

What? In which car?

Certainly not the last Focus RS!

cpoh1

Mr.David wrote: »

Is that maybe slighty premature? obviously 4WD has inherent benefits but lets at least wait and see how it manages. Torque steer has been nearly eliminated anyway so the big area where it will be noticeable it in the rain on a back road.

Torque steer isint a problem as such but understeer is. It doesnt matter what gadgetry you have up front if you try and push through a corner fast with power at the front wheels only a car is going to understeer. Of course you get understeer with a 4WD car too but at least with modern diff technology you can virtually eliminate it ( as with the evo).

What ford should have done was gone 4WD and stripped the non essential bits weighing the car down. If subaru and mitsubishi can do it successfully then so can ford. Its even more of a shame considering the rally heritage of the focus in recent years and the technology and experience gained.

This car really is a shame, considering the RS badge it will be wearing and the pedigree of car its being classed with. Its little more than a cash cow for the ford coffers.

cashmni1

cpoh1 wrote: »

Torque steer isint a problem as such but understeer is. It doesnt matter what gadgetry you have up front if you try and push through a corner fast with power at the front wheels only a car is going to understeer. Of course you get understeer with a 4WD car too but at least with modern diff technology you can virtually eliminate it ( as with the evo).

What ford should have done was gone 4WD and stripped the non essential bits weighing the car down. If subaru and mitsubishi can do it successfully then so can ford. Its even more of a shame considering the rally heritage of the focus in recent years and the technology and experience gained.

This car really is a shame, considering the RS badge it will be wearing and the pedigree of car its being classed with. Its little more than a cash cow for the ford coffers.

+1
I have to agree here. No matter what Ford say, how do you increase the adhiesive limit of a single pair of tyres so that they will not break traction with 300bhp pulling at them while steering through a corner? With mid corner bumps? At full tilt?
The laws of physics will rule here I think. Then again I hope I am wrong, I really do.
I love the RS concept and I think the car is great looking. You might think it looks chav, but what does a proper EVO or STI look like?.......Same as really. Fast cars with all the trimmings.

Henry Ford III

cpoh1 wrote: »

Torque steer isint a problem as such but understeer is. It doesnt matter what gadgetry you have up front if you try and push through a corner fast with power at the front wheels only a car is going to understeer. Of course you get understeer with a 4WD car too but at least with modern diff technology you can virtually eliminate it ( as with the evo).

What ford should have done was gone 4WD and stripped the non essential bits weighing the car down. If subaru and mitsubishi can do it successfully then so can ford. Its even more of a shame considering the rally heritage of the focus in recent years and the technology and experience gained.

This car really is a shame, considering the RS badge it will be wearing and the pedigree of car its being classed with. Its little more than a cash cow for the ford coffers.

The last generation Focus RS was actually considerably quicker on a circuit than the 4wd Rice Rockets.

I drove a couple of them, and didn't like the cars much tbh. The ride was bone shakingly hard, and the active diff. meant you were constantly adjusting the steering input on anything other than a perfect surface. Fidgety. The handling and grip were impressive however. A genuinely fast car in the right hands and conditions.

The ST is a much better car in Irish everyday conditions.

A mate of mine was at the Focus RS press launch, and he was mightily impressed visually.

Remains to be seen what the new car will be like to drive, but I expect it will raise the bar considerably. It'll be pretty expensive here unfortunately.

Zube

cashmni1 wrote: »

You might think it looks chav, but what does a proper EVO or STI look like?

Clarkson had a good line about the ST, he said they should have badged it the Focus Asbo.

cpoh1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The last generation Focus RS was actually considerably quicker on a circuit than the 4wd Rice Rockets.

I drove a couple of them, and didn't like the cars much tbh. The ride was bone shakingly hard, and the active diff. meant you were constantly adjusting the steering input on anything other than a perfect surface. Fidgety. The handling and grip were impressive however. A genuinely fast car in the right hands and conditions.

The ST is a much better car in Irish everyday conditions.

A mate of mine was at the Focus RS press launch, and he was mightily impressed visually.

Remains to be seen what the new car will be like to drive, but I expect it will raise the bar considerably. It'll be pretty expensive here unfortunately.

Considering the last generation focus RS is slower on track than an integra typeR from my dices with them in the past I would find it highly dubious that it outstripped either an sti or fq320 on anything other than a go-kart track. Then again if you have evidence of this ill take it back.

I also dont believe for a second that you ever drove any modern day evolution (evo8 up) because ive never met someone who drove one that didnt end up with a **** eating grin on their face afterwards. I had a evo9 in my drive the last two summers for 3 weeks at a go babysitting and fidgety was the last thing id describe it as. The worse the road the better she handled compared to a normal car. Then again if you had actually driven one you would know this instead of making crap up on the internet.

I agree with you about the ST though, given 90% of people buying the ST are non car enthusiasts and more interested in marketing and brand its definietely a better everyday car for ireland. However any petrolhead with money to spend would want much more from a car than a 220bhp fwd volvo engined hatch, the same will be the case with the RS.

abitdazed

Yet another car you'd love to drive and hate to be seen driving. Missed the mark again, Car Industry.

Zube

cpoh1 wrote: »

I had a evo9 in my drive the last two summers for 3 weeks at a go babysitting and fidgety was the last thing id describe it as.

I believe if you read that again that you'll see that Henry Ford III meant the RS was fidgety, and that the ST is a better road car than the old RS.

cpoh1

Zube wrote: »

I believe if you read that again that you'll see that Henry Ford III meant the RS was fidgety, and that the ST is a better road car than the old RS.

I just re-read it and he mentions 4WD rice rockets in one sentence and then goes on to mention driving a couple of them and not liking them cars. Nothing to do with the mk1 focus RS?

Balfa

E92 wrote: »

280 bhp being thrust through the front wheels doesn't sound good.

After all the Mazda 3 MPS which uses the same chassis was slated for asking the front wheels to deal with 19 bhp less.

EDIT: Christ on a bike it looks ugly. It could do with far less blingage!

I was just about to say, the Mazda is FWD has similar power and torque and has been critcally praised everywhere I've heard mention of it!
What's this slating you're talking about??

It limits torque in 1st and 2nd gear to help prevent slip, and there's no reason this focus can't do the same.

Zube

Balfa wrote: »

What's this slating you're talking about??

Putting Mazda 3 MPS "torque steer" into Google throws up a rake of hits:

When we drove the Mazda 3 MPS, torque steer was a very evident problem around every corner. Nonetheless, Mazda have decided to enter the ...

You still get torque steer, but it is way less than most FWD cars. ...

FOR: Performance, finish, understated looks. AGAINST: Torque steer, tyre noise, spare tyre, ride. ...

I'm talking about torque steer here, and it's the curse of the ...

Knock it back to fourth and you return to the realms of torque steer. ...

Good. Stellar engine; Tremendous chassis; Outstanding value. Bad. Some torque steer;

etc. etc.

Henry Ford III

cpoh1 wrote: »

Considering the last generation focus RS is slower on track than an integra typeR from my dices with them in the past I would find it highly dubious that it outstripped either an sti or fq320 on anything other than a go-kart track. Then again if you have evidence of this ill take it back.

I also dont believe for a second that you ever drove any modern day evolution (evo8 up) because ive never met someone who drove one that didnt end up with a **** eating grin on their face afterwards. I had a evo9 in my drive the last two summers for 3 weeks at a go babysitting and fidgety was the last thing id describe it as. The worse the road the better she handled compared to a normal car. Then again if you had actually driven one you would know this instead of making crap up on the internet.

I agree with you about the ST though, given 90% of people buying the ST are non car enthusiasts and more interested in marketing and brand its definietely a better everyday car for ireland. However any petrolhead with money to spend would want much more from a car than a 220bhp fwd volvo engined hatch, the same will be the case with the RS.

I drove a couple of Focus RS's!

bazz26

The Mazda 3 MPS has got mixed reviews at best. Lots of reference payed to torque steer, etc. It has the same engine as the 6 MPS and roughly pumps out the same bhp.

In contrast the 6 MPS has had great reviews especially with regards the handling. The 6 MPS as we know is all wheel drive.

omega man

Balfa wrote: »

I was just about to say, the Mazda is FWD has similar power and torque and has been critcally praised everywhere I've heard mention of it!
What's this slating you're talking about??

It limits torque in 1st and 2nd gear to help prevent slip, and there's no reason this focus can't do the same.

As an owner of a 3 MPS i have to say the torque steer is limited. OK the cars is not exactly 'hot' to look at but Mazda actually did a fantastic job of getting the power down......mostly! In the 3 MPS a AWD system would have added weight and cost therefore losing any possible competitive edge over the GTI's, ST's and OPC's etc.

Balfa

Zube wrote: »

Putting Mazda 3 MPS "torque steer" into Google throws up a rake of hits

Fair enough, but besides the ones you cherry picked, a fair share of the hits are actually praising the lack of torque steer.
I found an interesting article on it, which basically says it could be down to individual specimens.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/07/mazdaspeed3-tor.html


Notwithstanding the torque steer or lack thereof, most reviews still heap praise on the car's handling.
My mate at work test drove one before he ended up buying a different car. I'll ask him on Monday if he noticed any

And this isn't directed at anyone specifically, but I just don't think it's fair to shout "ZOMG WAT AR f0rd TINK??" without actually driving the car

Of course RWD or 4WD would probably produce a better handling car, but it'll also add expense, and there's no arguing that at about $22k over here, the Speed3 is one of the loudest bangs you can get for your buck.