Pass Degree

Wunderkid

Hello,

I have a pass degree in Business Studies. I am currently working in Fund Accounting. I would like to move into a more interesting area. Will my pass degree always hold me back?Is there any way I can improve my qualifications?

Wk

Climate Expert

You can't rewrite history. Depending on where you want your career to go there will always be certain doors closed to you.

I'm dealing with the same thing based on not having a 500 point leaving cert. However the majority of opportunities are still open especially if you have experience and further education.

seamus

The great thing about education is that it's very rare for all possible avenues to a qualification or career to be closed to you. There will always be a route to a career, it might just be a little longer than if you had an Honours degree or 600 points in the leaving cert.

Depending on your age, you should be able to do a Master's degree in most colleges - they tend to state, "Honours Bachelor's degree", but if you're a mature student, entry will be based on an interview. With a pass degree, good experience in the industry and a little bit of charm, you should be able to get into the course.

Wunderkid

seamus wrote: »

Depending on your age, you should be able to do a Master's degree in most colleges - they tend to state, "Honours Bachelor's degree", but if you're a mature student, entry will be based on an interview. With a pass degree, good experience in the industry and a little bit of charm, you should be able to get into the course.

Yes I am a mature student. What Masters in Finance would I have the best shot of getting into?

Money Shot

Wunderkid wrote: »

Hello,

I have a pass degree in Business Studies. I am currently working in Fund Accounting. I would like to move into a more interesting area. Will my pass degree always hold me back?Is there any way I can improve my qualifications?

Wk

Well, for starters you done well to get into Fund accounting with a pass degree - I know two of the leading companies in the area insist on an honors degree for grads. Obviously, work experience will help if you have any.

Just curious- what area of finance do you think will be more 'interesting' ? Once you get down to the nine to five's of most finance jobs, not many could be considered terribly 'interesting'. What area's of finance would you consider 'interesting' ?

Wunderkid

Money Shot wrote: »

Just curious- what area of finance do you think will be more 'interesting' ? Once you get down to the nine to five's of most finance jobs, not many could be considered terribly 'interesting'. What area's of finance would you consider 'interesting' ?

Portfolio Management, looking after clients portfolios, looks interesting. I'd like something where I'm not chained to the desk all day and can get out and meet people.

RoseBlossom

I wouldn't worry unduly now that you've actually gotten a job. There comes a point where your work experience outweighs the content of your degree. In five years time, for example, interviewers shouldn't be making up their mind on the basis of you getting 45% instead of 51%. Rather they will look at the work you have been doing since then and the level of competence you convey.

Good luck if you decide to pursue a Masters.

Esse85

I ve just completed 3rd year business studies where i got a 2.2, i got over the 50% average to make 4th year, however i was hoping to get a 2.1 Will this hinder me when applying for jobs e.g grad programmes or will i be ok as long as i improve in 4th year?

Esse85

Bump

jdf

I have never been asked what grade I recieved in any of my qualifications. I have them and that is all that matters.

I have a smart arsed stock answer in waiting for the time it is asked though...."I'm curious, do you know what grade your doctor got?"

Climate Expert

jdf wrote: »

I have never been asked what grade I recieved in any of my qualifications. I have them and that is all that matters.

I have a smart arsed stock answer in waiting for the time it is asked though...."I'm curious, do you know what grade your doctor got?"

They have a PhD and these are ungraded. Grades matter in college at undergradute level. There are more graduates than ever now so grades are how you seperate the smart and hardworking from the jokers.

If grades don't matter in your job then its probably not a very good one.

jdf

Climate Expert wrote: »

They have a PhD and these are ungraded. Grades matter in college at undergradute level. There are more graduates than ever now so grades are how you seperate the smart and hardworking from the jokers.

If grades don't matter in your job then its probably not a very good one.

So a GP is a Phd now?

If PhD's are ungraded how do we tell the "smart and hard working" ones from "the jokers"?

And yeah, you got me, I'm wasting away here in my "not a very good" job. Where did it all go so wrong?

Pythia

Climate Expert wrote: »

They have a PhD and these are ungraded. Grades matter in college at undergradute level. There are more graduates than ever now so grades are how you seperate the smart and hardworking from the jokers.

If grades don't matter in your job then its probably not a very good one.

Medical doctors don't have a PhD. They have a medical degree.

I left college just over a year ago. My degree grade has been a huge asset to me and has been mentioned a lot in interviews.

watna

I have a pass degree and have never felt that it held me back. I hated my course but didn't want to drop out so staying on and getting something seemed like a good idea.

However, if I ever feel that it does apparently a good option is to do a degree with the open university. The guidance councellor when i left uni said that your ordinary degree counts towards an honours degree with them. Not sure how long it'd take to get the honours degree but it's something I think Ill go back to, just to feel better about myself more than for career progression

eth0_

jdf wrote: »

So a GP is a Phd now?

If PhD's are ungraded how do we tell the "smart and hard working" ones from "the jokers"?

Because based on the evidence you present to the examining board, only the 'smart and hard working' Phd students pass.

I guess you could look at how many papers the person got published as well...but a Phd is really either a pass or a fail.

jdf

eth0_ wrote: »

but a Phd is really either a pass or a fail.

A "pass" PhD?

Say it ain't so!

raido9

I know two of the leading companies in the area insist on an honors degree for grads.

UL cahanged the name of the pass degree, to a third class honours degree to get around this!

jdf

Climate Expert wrote: »

If grades don't matter in your job then its probably not a very good one.

I let that slide earlier, but upon reflection - who the hell do you think you are making a comment like that?

Climate Expert

jdf wrote: »

I let that slide earlier, but upon reflection - who the hell do you think you are making a comment like that?

I'm speaking in general terms.
Try and get into investment banking with a pass degree. Try and become a research scientist with a pass degree. You will get nowhere.
A good degree isn't the be all and end all in life. You can do big things with no education at all but to pretend that it makes no difference whatsover is wishful thinking


I'm fairly certain medical doctors have PhDs. Why else would they be called doctors?

They have a doctorate in medical science. How do you differentiate between a good phd student and a bad one? Publications and reputation.

ps. I have a first

jd

Climate Expert wrote: »

I'm fairly certain medical doctors have PhDs. Why else would they be called doctors?

A PhD isn't the only doctorate available. An M.D. is a Doctor of Medicine.

nesf

Climate Expert wrote: »

I'm fairly certain medical doctors have PhDs.

They definitely don't need a PhD to be called a doctor. Ask your GP the next time you're sick if you don't believe me.

Climate Expert wrote: »

Grades matter in college at undergradute level.

They matter for taught Masters programs as well.

Tails142

Pass Degree = Diploma = Level 7

Hounours Degree = Level 8

A pass grade, meaning between 40% and 50% in an honours degree is not really a big deal, its still an excellent qualification.

It may close some doors to you initially, a few companies require 2.1 at a minimum, as do some masters program. But after 2 years of working in whatever industry the degree is in, it really wont make any difference at all.

You can enter masters programs based on interviews which will take into account your experience and these can lead onto doctorates.

Results mean nothing once you get to the next level, its the same the whole way up the chain, from getting your leaving cert, then once you get your degree the leaving cert means absolutely nothing, then once you get some industry experience and can show hard facts relating to your performance in the industry your degree means absolutely nothing.

Chill its not the end of the world, I know of people with pass honour degrees who worked their way up as graduates and are now the directors of companies. I know its dissapointing to work for 3/4 years, maybe not as hard as others , and come out with what you feel is a lesser result but give it a few years and nobody will even remember/care

cronos

Tails142 wrote: »

Pass Degree = Diploma = Level 7

Hounours Degree = Level 8

A pass grade, meaning between 40% and 50% in an honours degree is not really a big deal, its still an excellent qualification.

It may close some doors to you initially, a few companies require 2.1 at a minimum, as do some masters program. But after 2 years of working in whatever industry the degree is in, it really wont make any difference at all.

Its funny how people with a 2.2 honours degree are kinda in no mans land. They got a good degree but still get ignored.

Hanley

jdf wrote: »

I have never been asked what grade I recieved in any of my qualifications. I have them and that is all that matters.

I have a smart arsed stock answer in waiting for the time it is asked though...."I'm curious, do you know what grade your doctor got?"

What do you call a person who finished last in medical school?

"Doctor"

Seriously tho, I know from a grad perspective not having a 2.1 honours degree average impeeded some of the guys in my class. One of them actually finished with a first class honours degree and is now jobless because of his year two results, which I think is a crying shame.

Timmy_d

Tails142 wrote: »

Pass Degree = Diploma = Level 7

Hounours Degree = Level 8

A pass grade, meaning between 40% and 50% in an honours degree is not really a big deal, its still an excellent qualification.

It may close some doors to you initially, a few companies require 2.1 at a minimum, as do some masters program. But after 2 years of working in whatever industry the degree is in, it really wont make any difference at all.

You can enter masters programs based on interviews which will take into account your experience and these can lead onto doctorates.

Results mean nothing once you get to the next level, its the same the whole way up the chain, from getting your leaving cert, then once you get your degree the leaving cert means absolutely nothing, then once you get some industry experience and can show hard facts relating to your performance in the industry your degree means absolutely nothing.

Chill its not the end of the world, I know of people with pass honour degrees who worked their way up as graduates and are now the directors of companies. I know its dissapointing to work for 3/4 years, maybe not as hard as others , and come out with what you feel is a lesser result but give it a few years and nobody will even remember/care

Didnt think a pass grade in an honours degree would be seen as an excellent qualification....one of our lecturers once said pass degrees are not worth the paper they are written on,dont know how true this is or maybe it onlt applies to level 7 degrees...any opinions?

Tan Princess

GPs don't have PhDs most hospital doctors do have PhDs in Medicine or at the very least M.Ds which are the equivalent of an MLitt they are research degrees. Doctors are called doctors after completing their undergraduate degrees.

You can go for the Law Society exams with a pass degree and possibly the Kings Inns.

cronos

Timmy_d wrote: »

Didnt think a pass grade in an honours degree would be seen as an excellent qualification....one of our lecturers once said pass degrees are not worth the paper they are written on,dont know how true this is or maybe it onlt applies to level 7 degrees...any opinions?

You mean a third class degree in an honours course.

nesf

Timmy_d wrote: »

Didnt think a pass grade in an honours degree would be seen as an excellent qualification....one of our lecturers once said pass degrees are not worth the paper they are written on,dont know how true this is or maybe it onlt applies to level 7 degrees...any opinions?

It depends on what your degree is in. If you've a 40% grade for your BA it'd look worse than having a high mark in a Pass degree in my opinion. It just comes down to the person reading your CV really. Some people will care more about your grade than others and some will care more about the type of degree you have than others.

vector

seamus wrote: »

...they tend to state, "Honours Bachelor's degree"...

I always wonder what this means.

10 years ago it means a Degree, that you personally got an honours in (ie 1 1, 2.1, 2.2) however since [unknown EU rule] all Level 8 degrees are Honours Bachelor's degrees.

For example if I scraped through a BA at UCD and got a PASS I could still say I have an Honours Bachelor's degree, because it is not a mere Level 7 Degree

nesf

vector wrote: »

I always wonder what this means.

10 years ago it means a Degree, that you personally got an honours in (ie 1 1, 2.1, 2.2) however since [unknown EU rule] all Level 8 degrees are Honours Bachelor's degrees.

For example if I scraped through a BA at UCD and got a PASS I could still say I have an Honours Bachelor's degree, because it is not a mere Level 8 Degree

They've had to bring it in because Diplomas (I think) had a name change to "Pass Degree". Which makes things messy for the old language. Before they could say a Degree in X is required to just get Honours Degree holders, now they have to specify it further because people who get Diplomas/Pass Degrees apply and they weren't the intended target or whatever.

You've a pass grade in an honours degree. If you said pass degree to me that would be what I'd assume you mean but that's because I'm not used to the new naming system. I still don't think of people with "Pass Degrees" as degree holders but that's just habit rather than me looking down on Diplomas or anything like that.

corkonian1

Timmy_d wrote: »

Didnt think a pass grade in an honours degree would be seen as an excellent qualification....one of our lecturers once said pass degrees are not worth the paper they are written on,dont know how true this is or maybe it onlt applies to level 7 degrees...any opinions?

That lecturer sounds like an intellectual snob, so far up his own importance he does not see the value of graded results. Not everybody is suited for the highest academic standards, If we were, there would be no point in the grading system at all. I have lectured at UCC and UL and every student who puts in the work is achieving something valuable for themselves. For some, it translates straight into having a better chance of getting into their career of choice, but for most it is about learning more about yourself and your subject area, and helping you to decide if that is what you want to spend your life doing.

Since when was a 2:2 result considered a 'good degree'? I've spent the last few months researching postgrad courses, and they all require a good degree, i.e, a high 2:1 or a First. Without a First you haven't a chance of any funding in the UK. With a 2:2 you wouldn't even meet the minimum requirements for a place on the course.

That lecturer sounds like an intellectual snob, so far up his own importance he does not see the value of graded results. Not everybody is suited for the highest academic standards, If we were, there would be no point in the grading system at all. I have lectured at UCC and UL and every student who puts in the work is achieving something valuable for themselves. For some, it translates straight into having a better chance of getting into their career of choice, but for most it is about learning more about yourself and your subject area, and helping you to decide if that is what you want to spend your life doing.

You have to be realistic. If the degree class didn't matter, then why would anyone work their ass off to get a good result? Why does someone who wasn't intelligent enough or didn't work hard enough deserve to achieve the same as someone who got a First? I agree that saying pass degrees are worthless is harsh, but I think he has a point. If you're doing the degree to improve yourself or expand your knowledge, no probs, but if you're looking for a brilliant career, then you can't expect people to be impressed with a pass degree. You might as well just start working after school and get a few years of work experience in. Not everyone is cut out for further education, you can't expect people to say 'ah well, he tried.'

Newaglish

Your degree grade is essentially a measure of your ability to retain and understand information and your capability for hard work.

What job in the world would not be interested in this?

anonymousman

Out of the 50 or so people in my secondary school year only 7 went to college, and when I got to college I had not a clue of note taking or even how to use the internet that much (that changed with some time in the computer room). my first year in college i fluked an (equivalent of) 2.1, my second year i failed one module but passed by compensation and got an equivalent of a 2.2 then i worked my *** off and got a few % off a first this (third) year. Next year is my final year and will hopefully get a first/2.1.

Will that failed module ruin my dreams of working in Meryl Lynch, in a NYC IB or Global wealth mgt or doing a Masters in Finance? I know I sound a bit OTT but I generally have an End of the World attitude towards life (and will make an excellent husband because of it ).

THe failed module had nothing to do with Business, i actually worked at it but in retrospect the module was a load of ******, it literally was a rote learning module.

Apologies for spelling and shortened words, too hungover

Pythia

You'll be fine. A lot of people fail a class. As long as you don't fail one of your finals, you'll be ok.

anonymousman

What about that guy who said hes struggling cos he didnt get 500 points, I didnt get 500 points, I thought the Leaving Cert was well past why would anyone care?

nesf

anonymousman wrote: »

Will that failed module ruin my dreams of working in Meryl Lynch, in a NYC IB or Global wealth mgt or doing a Masters in Finance?

No, if the rest of your results are good then one module shouldn't screw you over. Good third and fourth year results would just show it up as a once off slip up. Especially for a Masters application where it's your final result that'll get the most attention, at least with the PAC system some of the colleges use.

anonymousman wrote: »

What about that guy who said hes struggling cos he didnt get 500 points, I didnt get 500 points, I thought the Leaving Cert was well past why would anyone care?

I got over 500 points in my Leaving 8 years ago. Believe me, nowadays no one gives a **** what I got. Once you've a degree result people tend to focus on that instead generally.

watna

nesf wrote: »

I got over 500 points in my Leaving 8 years ago. Believe me, nowadays no one gives a **** what I got. Once you've a degree result people tend to focus on that instead generally.

+1. Sometimed I have to think for a minute or two how many points I got in my leaving and that was only 6 years ago. It's never ever come up since I left college (btw I do have over 500 points but only an ordinary degree so things really aren't as black and white and people say they are, having an ordinary degree does not make you stupid!)

anonymousman

And what about the guy who said his friend had a FIRST degree but not an average of 2.1 in his results overal and now he's JOBLESS? :O is that guy just aiming too high and probably failed his way through college and may be a total pleb in interviews?

I just die when I read Job horror stories, just die.

hockeygirl

Had to give my 2cents here

Although on paper it looks great if you have a 2.1 or a first... how you present yourself in an interview and also you experience counts for alot.

I have worked with people who have achieved a 2.1 in their degree with brains to burn but dont have an ounce of cop-on

I myself have a 2.2 in physics, the fact that I achieved a 2.2 has not held me back. I have been trying my damndest to get into accounting and I will now be starting as a trainee chartered acountant in 2wks. Yeaaaaah me!

i have a friend who only achieved a pass in his degree and he is now an account manager in BOI !

Granted it will be harder to get into a grad programme if you have not achieved a high grad... but from what I can tell in your post your are looking to move across sections... If you have determination.. a good work ethic and experience behind you (which you have) , you can go anywhere... it may mean you'll have to work a little harder to get there but it'll stand to you in the end.

Oh and another thing.... just because you didnt achieve an almightly first or 2.1 in your degree doesnt mean you didnt work your ass off as hard as anybody else. My friend (the guy who got a pass in physics) was useless in exams but on a practical level he could wipe the floor with any of the lads in my class

hockeygirl

[quote=[Deleted User];56542835]Since when was a 2:2 result considered a 'good degree'? I've spent the last few months researching postgrad courses, and they all require a good degree, i.e, a high 2:1 or a First. Without a First you haven't a chance of any funding in the UK. With a 2:2 you wouldn't even meet the minimum requirements for a place on the course.
'[/quote]


A 2.2 is an excellent degree if I do say so myself


With regards to your comment on postgrad courses you could not be more wrong - I know alot of 'research' based courses require a min 2.1 but there are plenty which require a 2.2 min, this beng the same for taught masters and postgrad diplomas... in fact there would be more taught courses which require a 2.2 as a minimum



Esse85 you can still get into a grad programme in a company with a 2.2 so I wouldnt worry... you may have your choices reduced but you definatley can. I was accepted into Bank of scotland but turned it down as I had been offered a job in a new company

eth0_

TBH if I end up with a 2:2 next year i'll be devastated. It's been hard enough working full time and doing a degree for what will be six years, but the fact that the postgrads I want to do (psychology) won't even consider your application unless you have a 2:1 shows you what universities think of a 2:2. And I can see their point. If you get a 2:2 or a third you probably aren't cut out for postgrad, especially research based courses.

Newaglish

hockeygirl wrote: »

A 2.2 is an excellent degree if I do say so myself

I would probably disagree on that point - most people would be quite disappointed with a 2.2.

Most high profile firms, where jobs are quite competitive, won't interview someone with below a 2.1. Same goes for any good post-grad course.

Incidentally, I also know a number of people with 1.1 degrees who were refused on the basis of having low Leaving Cert points (ie. below 400)

I suppose it all boils down to what you want to do - some people won't need a 2.1 for the job they want to do if they're happy to work in a smaller or more local company. Over time as well, the significance of your degree grade will be diminished as you gain more experience.

Nothingcompares

Dunno if anyone else agrees with me but I'd rate a 2.2 Degree in engineering for example from UCD much higher than a 2.1 arts degree from ucd.

passthedutchie

I'd agree, some courses give out better results than others
Also some colleges give out much better results than others also.
Additionally colleges are giving out better results for all courses in recent years. I'm graduated many years now from UCD, but in my time, it was approx 5-10% getting 1.1,the top third getting 2.1s, the next third getting 2.2s, and then the remainder getting thirds and passes. From what I can see nowadays, it is much easier to get a first.

Employers know all this, so will factor these in to any decisions on applicant suitability.

Euro_Kraut

I think it depends on the employer. Firms with low recurting standards will get hung up on degree score and leaving cert points (the latter baffles me) because they ae unable to distinguish between good and bad workers.

Better firms look to hire people, not degrees. Much skill in any workplace is learned on the job. The degree score should only matter in a tie break senario between too excellent candidates for a job. To be honest I would not like to work for a firm that set such high importance upon degree score.

Pythia

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I think it depends on the employer. Firms with low recurting standards will get hung up on degree score and leaving cert points (the latter baffles me) because they ae unable to distinguish between good and bad workers.

Better firms look to hire people, not degrees. Much skill in any workplace is learned on the job. The degree score should only matter in a tie break senario between too excellent candidates for a job. To be honest I would not like to work for a firm that set such high importance upon degree score.

Depends on the job. If it's very technical and you got a pass degree, you won't get taken on, no matter how good a person might appear to be.

nesf

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Better firms look to hire people, not degrees.

Certainly and after a few years experience in the job most places will only give your degree mark a cursory glance. For fresh graduates entering the workplace though your degree mark really does matter because you're unlikely to have that much else in your CV at that stage versus a few years down the road.

keroes

Hi, i have a pass degree ba in the arts, 4 subjects in History, Sociology, Psychology. I am 37 and my previous work included teaching computers to people with disabilites parttime and also worked in post office. I am unemployed at the moment.
I would like to work in some sort of teaching aspect or counselling perhaps.
Doing another course would be difficult as i need to be earning money.
Can anyone show me their is light at the end of the tunnel!!
Thanks

spinandscribble

i was trying for a first and was 1.25% off, so a high 2.1 (does it make a difference if its high or low though??). i had 9 As then 2 Bs and a ****ty c. (that Cs under appeal but for the moment its there haunting me )
anyway those were my final year grades in arts, psychology/classics. i was wondering though, will that c haunt me in the future?
it was a kinda filler pick our own topic essay module, not a cornerstone by a long shot (which i did work very hard at, hence confusion/appeal).
i've managed to get a internship in psychology in the states for 18mth so i'll have work experience but now i'm worrying about coming back and trying and get a MA.