EOS - 30D - Can you not take photos with the LCD?

workaccount

Hi there,
I was thinking about buying a used 30D but now I'm thinking it would not be most ideal if I had to look through the viewfinder everytime I want to take a photo.

Is this the case?

Cheers.

Paulw

Correct, you must use the viewfinder. It does not have Liveview.

challengemaster

Why is it not ideal? If you're moving up from the compacts its time to ditch the live-view habits really. There's only a few certain times when it really is needed, ie. when you physically can't see through the viewfinder imo.

Mellor

picture taking is lcd = gimmick

workaccount

challengemaster wrote: »

Why is it not ideal? If you're moving up from the compacts its time to ditch the live-view habits really. There's only a few certain times when it really is needed, ie. when you physically can't see through the viewfinder imo.

Mellor wrote: »

picture taking is lcd = gimmick

Why is the viewfinder better?

mathias

Looking through the viewfinder is better on an SLR for many reasons , not the least of which is the fact that you are looking through the lens and can compose the frame better.

Liveview is for snapshots on compacts , nobody who uses an SLR on a regular basis uses it that much , which is probably one of the reasons why it has taken so long to appear on SLR's , and on the ones where it has , the majority of users dont use it. I never do , its a gimmick that never gets switched on for me.

Having said that , if the screen on the camera was detailed and accurate enough , I can see the very odd shot where it might be useful , but the screen would have to be pinpoint accurate as the shots Im imagining here would be macro shots close to the ground and you'd have to be able to judge depth of field as accurately with the screen as you can with the viewfinder , something which is not possible yet on any camera Ive seen.

oshead

Sometimes in difficult lighting situations, I switch to liveview with the histogram displayed to simulate exposure. Really just for information. I'd never bother shooting with it.

Dave OS

PixelTrawler

I use liveview if the camera is on a tripod (indoors) sometimes and also Ive used the live view feed on the pc which can be nice for manual focusing...

You'd never use it outdoors though...

leohoju

Solyad wrote: »

You'd never use it outdoors though...

Does the Canon's screen not fold out? I would have thought it could be used instead of an angle finder then.

Paulw

leohoju wrote: »

Does the Canon's screen not fold out? I would have thought it could be used instead of an angle finder then.

No, it doesn't. I think Olympus are the only ones with that function.

I very very seldom use liveview. The viewfinder is much more reliable.

challengemaster

To be honest, I'd just laugh at anyone holding a DSLR like a compact using liveview. Something about it just isn't right.

And yeah, you're looking at exactly whats there with the viewfinder, you see what the lens does, exactly as is.

sunny2004

if you use the liveview "daytime" is there not an issue with light leaking through the viewfinder when your eye is not against it ?
Just a thought... and I dont have or use liveview cameras..
edit I have a fuji 5600 it has liveview of sorts
But my main kit doesnt..

Shiny

Another reason while the viewfinder is mainly used on SLR's is that
the act of using it keeps your elbows pretty much pressed against
your chest which keeps the camera steady.

You see sooooooooo many people with point and shoots with their
arms extended at full length, looking at the lcd. :rolleyes:

You treat an SLR like a baby, not like a young puppy that is going
to piss all over you. :pac:

Ninja_scrotum

Wicked snobbery around here!

bovril

Liveview is very useful when shooting IR and also to see DoF especially when using a macro lens. I don't use it all the time but it has some very good uses.

Mellor

Agreed on IR, thats is only use in my book (or one of)
But for DoF, there is the Dof preview button

workaccount

bovril wrote: »

Liveview is very useful when shooting IR and also to see DoF especially when using a macro lens. I don't use it all the time but it has some very good uses.

Mellor wrote: »

Agreed on IR, thats is only use in my book (or one of)
But for DoF, there is the Dof preview button

What is an IR photo?? I know it's "infrared" but what exactly is an infrared picture.

I think the 30D will do me so as if I get a used one I will be saving about 400 quid. There's no real need for me to get a 40d....or is there?

bovril

do a search on flickr for infrared photos to see what they are like. You need a filter to take an IR shot. You don't need liveview to take IR shots you can still use a 30D. Liveview just makes it easier.

Eirebear

workaccount wrote: »

I think the 30D will do me so as if I get a used one I will be saving about 400 quid. There's no real need for me to get a 40d....or is there?

If it is your first DSLR then the 30d will do you perfectly well, its what i use at the moment and its a great camera which will handle itself perfectly well under pressure.

The differences between the 30 and 40d are nothing to worry about when you are starting out.

magicbastarder

does liveview cause shutter lag?

Covey

bovril wrote: »

You need a filter to take an IR shot.

Not neccessarily. You can gat a camera adapted for that also.

Another good use of Live View is ground/low level shots.

T.

bovril

Covey wrote: »

Not neccessarily. You can gat a camera adapted for that also.

Very true, I was stating the use of the filter so the OP wouldn't think it was something that you could do with the 40D and not the 30D.

Covey

Bit off topic maybe, but anyone have an adapted camera.

Saw some great stuff recently, not landscape, but fashion, glamour, done on an adapted camera.

Considering buying an old 10D for this.

T.

JMcL

Some reasons you won't want to use the LCD on a 30 or 40D (where it's possible) to compose on a general basis:

• With any sort of a lens mounted and battery installed, I'd be surprised if the lot weighed anything under 1kg. As an experiment, get a bag of sugar and try holding that at arms length for any period of time.
• Following on from the previous point, as your arm gets tired, the camera shakes = blurred pics
• Due to keeping the (large) sensor charged, not to mention the LCD illuminated, live view chews its way through batteries
• Because the sensor has a charge constantly applied to it in live view (normally only when the image is being taken), it'll heat up. The camera gets significantly hot after a while, which isn't really good, but will certainly lead to increased noise in photos

Live view is very useful. When I bought the 40D I thought it was a bit gimmicky as well, but it's invaluable for macro shots, and I use it for landscapes as well (you can meter from various parts of the scene without having to move the camera), but only mounted on a tripod.

Oh, and contrary to what somebody else implied, what you see in live view is what's coming through the lens, and does have one advantage over the viewfinder in that it provides 100% coverage, so things just outside the edge of the viewfinder don't turn up in the final image

duffarama

I'd second the use of live view on a tripod and for macro use, can be very useful. I've used it quite often at night time on a tripod. Mostly because I don't enjoy all the bending down to look through the viewfinder!!

Also on the Olympus cameras (and possibly the others) you can magnify the scene up to 10x on screen to check critical focus if you wish.

workaccount

Eirebear wrote: »

If it is your first DSLR then the 30d will do you perfectly well, its what i use at the moment and its a great camera which will handle itself perfectly well under pressure.

The differences between the 30 and 40d are nothing to worry about when you are starting out.

Cheers. It would be nice to have the 40d but it's just a little too much money for me to justify.

workaccount

Just another q actually.

When the shutter reaches 100,000 can you replace it? I assume the camera keeps count.

Paulw

That figure is a mean time to failure. So, the camera could pack up after 10 shots or 1,000,000 shots. It's an average mechanical value.

But yes, the shutter can be replaced.

Thirdfox

Ninja_scrotum wrote: »

Wicked snobbery around here!

+1

Cameras are tools - they serve a purpose. If liveview/autofocus/autometering/i-TTL flash helps you get the better shot then why complain about the "feature"?

workaccount

Hello again. I still havn't got the camera. I was thinking for a while that I might go with the 40D.

I'm gone back thinking about the 30D now again though. I'm afraid that I won't stick with the hobby you see so I don't want to spend too much money. I do want a DSLR though and it must be a Canon.

I don't want to be unhappy with what I get either. One question I have with more to follow I'd imagine is what is the menu structure is like. I hear they changed it on the 40D to the same as what is on the 1D or 5D (can't remember) and it is much better. Is the 30D menu bad though?

Thanks.

5uspect

The menu on the 30D is fine. There's just more options and a revised layouts in the newer ones.

Also regarding spit Liveview on the 40D, isn't it the case that you can't autofocus with it? iirc the new 50D has contrast focusing in liveview tho.

On an SLR liveview is an additional feature thats useful in certain circumstances, such as macro, fine tuning of focus and depth of field.
Holding an SLR to your face to compose the shot through the optical viewfinder is a much more natural and inherently stable way to take pictures. There are no distractions in your peripheral vision, issues with screen brightness or low refresh rates mucking up the image when panning. Plus using an SLR like a P&S makes you look like a tool! :pac:



Is that snobby?:o

Stephen

magicbastarder wrote: »

does liveview cause shutter lag?

I don't know about Canons but here in Nikon land yes it does. I only ever use live view when I'm taking a shot from floor-level - saves me lying on the ground It does seem to introduce significant lag, and also autofocus is massively slower than it is when live view is disabled.

sineadw

Covey wrote: »

Bit off topic maybe, but anyone have an adapted camera.

Saw some great stuff recently, not landscape, but fashion, glamour, done on an adapted camera.

Considering buying an old 10D for this.

T.

I'm using my old film one. Or I would be if I could find anywhere stocking the film Saw some film IR stuff a while back and the quality was something different altogether to digital..

whyulittle

And don't forget holding a 30D, possibly with a battery grip attached, and a lens, at arms length is totally different than holding a little P&S or bridge camera. Whenever anyone picks up one of my cameras, first thing they say is, "Jesus the weight of it".

Biro

workaccount wrote: »

Hello again. I still havn't got the camera. I was thinking for a while that I might go with the 40D.

I'm gone back thinking about the 30D now again though. I'm afraid that I won't stick with the hobby you see so I don't want to spend too much money. I do want a DSLR though and it must be a Canon.

I don't want to be unhappy with what I get either. One question I have with more to follow I'd imagine is what is the menu structure is like. I hear they changed it on the 40D to the same as what is on the 1D or 5D (can't remember) and it is much better. Is the 30D menu bad though?

Thanks.

As a matter of interest, why are you torn between the 30D and 40D only? Do you really need the high fps? If you're only looking to "test the water" with your new SLR, then why not look for a cheap as chips 350D? Save money while getting a good SLR, and if you take it up better than you expected you'll be fishing for a better camera anyway. If not then you "wasted" less money.

5uspect

+1 the 350D is a great camera. I still have one. I'm hoping to get a 40D as a second body soon but I'll still keep the 350D.

superflyninja

I also only use the viewfinder on my olympus dslr.Its far more useful than the lcd. also if you are using the lcd (at least on my camera) the mirror needs to flip before the shot is taken which is no use if you are taking an action shot for example.

0utpost31

I just have to step in and say... oh my god reading this thread from the first page is just a display of ass-holish snobbyness. Most people replied mannerly, but a few of you jesus CHRIST!

Continue.

mathias

As a matter of interest, why are you torn between the 30D and 40D only? Do you really need the high fps?

If youve got big hands then the 350d and 400d is not an option , they are too small and fiddly ... there is a big size difference between the xxxD and the xxd canon models.
If you shoot in Auto mode all the time then they are probably OK , if you shoot manual all the time the smaller cameras can be very awkward to use.

The top LCD screen is no on the xxxd models , thats a big no no for me and a lot of other people too.

Thats just a couple of the extra reasons to go for the xxd's over the xxxd's , its not just a fps issue.

trishw78

Using the Liveview feature uses up the battery power faster than not using it

If you're afraid you won't stick with it the why go for the 30D or 40D have you looked at the 400D or the 450D they might suit your needs better.

CabanSail

I have Liveview of the D300. Other than trying it out when I first got the body I have never used it. It's not a feature I would value highly on a camera.

workaccount

Can you use the same lenses with the 350D as the 30D, 40D etc.?

5uspect

Yes, the xxxD and the xxD series are all APS-C cropped sensors. They can use EF and EF-S lenses as well as a Sigma and Tamron C-AF mount lenses.

You can't use EF-S on full frame canon xD series cameras like the 5D and 1D tho. Thats often a sticking point for people who would like to upgrade to full frame sometime.

sineadw

There's the 1000D? Saw one in The Camera Exchange last week and had to google it as I'd never heard of it. Seems like a good cheap alternative though?

Quint

OP, I got a 40D a couple of months ago, thinking that I would use the live view. But as everyone said, the viewfinder is far better and actually easier to use. If I was getting a new camera tomorow, live view wouldn't be a feature I would look for at all. And the battery lasts ages with the viewfinder. 3-4 days no problem. Although I suppose how much you use it, my useage was taking holiday pictures.
I even switched live view on a couple of times when I gave someone my camera to take a picture of me. They automaticly went to use the viewfinder and thought the liveview on the SLR was strange!

Biro

mathias wrote: »

If youve got big hands then the 350d and 400d is not an option , they are too small and fiddly ... there is a big size difference between the xxxD and the xxd canon models.
If you shoot in Auto mode all the time then they are probably OK , if you shoot manual all the time the smaller cameras can be very awkward to use.

The top LCD screen is no on the xxxd models , thats a big no no for me and a lot of other people too.

Thats just a couple of the extra reasons to go for the xxd's over the xxxd's , its not just a fps issue.

The top LCD screen is on the 300D and 350D, and I don't use Auto on my 350D at all and find it grand to use. The 300D was similar in size to the 30D and 40D, so if the OP could find one of those for small money then that might be an option, but the Digic 1 processor is a bit too slow.
I do think that people exaggerate the "big hands" problem on the 350 - 450 range, it'd only affect you if your hands are abnormally big or you're using the camera for very long periods of time, which it doesn't sound like the OP will be doing yet. Which is why I suggested a cheap 350D now!

5uspect

Well its above the colour LCD but the monochrome LCD on the xxD is on top of the body itself. I can see how someone used to the xxD might hate that about the xxxD.

As regards size, the xxxD are grand unless you've got shovels for hands, get a battery grip if its too small.

Freddie59

To the original poster:

In January this year I looked at buying a DSLR, and was upgrading from a Fuji s5000. On the Fuji I took all of the shots in auto using the LCD (Live View). As a result, I wanted Live View on the new camera, and spent about three months deciding between the Canon Eos 450D and the Olympus e510. I had previously been an Olympus P & S owner and it was a fantastic camera.

I decided on the Eos 450D as it wasn't that much dearer than the 400D, and it offered Live view and an IS kit lens.

I started shooting in Manual mode almost straight away (after reading the 'Understanding Exposure' book by Bryan Peterson). Because all the required information is presented in the Viewfinder of the 450D I have only used Live View on two occasions, when the camera was tripod-mounted. Believe me - if you begin to use the camera correctly, you will never use Live View (I never thought I'd say that TBH!:)). And, as someone pointed out earlier, if you want to hold the camera correctly, and stabilise it for handheld shots, Live View is not an option due to the weight involved.

There is a HUGE learning curve when you move up from P&S or Bridge cameras. No two ways about it. And the DSLRs are not very forgiving of user error.

But they are good - and you will develop your skills as a photographer.

Someone mentioned snobbery on this thread earlier. Maybe it is - maybe it isn't. But sometimes the Bridge - or P&S cameras - can produce stunning results, in some cases surpassing a DSLR. Even some pros admit that. For comparative purposes, here are three photos, one with a P & S (Olympus); one with a Bridge camera (Fuji s 5000); and the last with the Eos 450D. Personally I think the Eos image lacks the sharpness and detail of the first two.

I'd be interested to see what people think:

OLYMPUS P & S:



FUJI S5000 BRIDGE CAMERA:



Canon Eos 450D DSLR:

mathias

Well its above the colour LCD but the monochrome LCD on the xxD is on top of the body itself.

Its gone altogether on the 400D and is instead on the main lcd screen , it has a feature where the display disappears when you put you eye to the viewfinder.

5uspect

Oh thats true, I'm not a fan of them removing that.

workaccount

What about flashes - Are **D compatible with ***D?