Gibson Losing their Status

darrenw5094

Is it just me or has Gibson gone to hell???
Thomann are selling Les Paul Standards brand new for €1750.....they used to be €3000 in shops about 3 years ago. I am trying to let one go for about €1300.
Not easy....i am thinking my Black Les Paul Standard is now only worth about €1000 at most.

The old vintage gear seems to be in fashion these days.
Not helping us who want to sell our Gibsons and other gear.:mad::mad:

I hope you are reading this Gibson....

feylya

The economy has a lot to play in the prices dropping. Strong Euro against a weak dollar will result in US guitars being cheaper.

darrenw5094

I am after coming out of my local music store and one employee tells me that Gibson are doing a deal with them to bring down the prices....

Don't see many other guitars brand new prices dropping...

BuddhaJoe

Gibson guitars used to be distributed in Europe by a group called Rosetti which was one of the reasons we had such a huge markup on prices compared to the US. Gibson recently setup Gibson Europe and are now handling their own European distribution so we can expect some dramatic price drops as the old stock is sold off and cheaper newer stock comes in.

darrenw5094

B*****ks....how am i going to get rid of this Gibson in a hurry....

We are just a fountain of knowledge today, aren't we BuddhaJoe....
Don't take that too seriously....

Thanks for the info..

Savman

PRS ftw

BuddhaJoe

Ya might need to put it down to about a grand to shift it considering new Les Paul Standard Faded's can now be bought for €1,200 in the UK (you can also pick up Melody Makers for €290, a steal if you ask me!)

Dord

BuddhaJoe wrote: »

Gibson guitars used to be distributed in Europe by a group called Rosetti which was one of the reasons we had such a huge markup on prices compared to the US. Gibson recently setup Gibson Europe and are now handling their own European distribution so we can expect some dramatic price drops as the old stock is sold off and cheaper newer stock comes in.

I heard this a while back, they were supposed to be attending the london guitar show but had to pull out because they're still getting their staff together in Europe.

When they're bringing their prices down they should bring their standards up. Some of the crap I've seen them put out is ridiculous.

Doctor J

I dunno, I think people will still pay over the odds for a respected brand name (hello PRS :pac: )

What destroyed Gibson for me was when a band I was recording came in with a brand new Les Paul Standard, bought for over 2k in a certain shop beginning with W. He was playing away, sounded great apart from when he played a particular chord which was woegeous. Turned out, somehow, the 3rd fret on the low E string was playing notes sharp. Play open E, in tune. F, in tune. F#, in tune. G, badly sharp. G#, in tune. A, in tune. We tried new strings, all sorts of things but it was sharp when every other note was in tune no matter what. I do believe the POS was replaced under warranty.

If you saw that on an Epiphone you'd be disappointed and possibly a little surprised. On a 2k+ Gibson, unacceptable.

Dord

Doctor J wrote: »

I dunno, I think people will still pay over the odds for a respected brand name (hello PRS :pac: )

What destroyed Gibson for me was when a band I was recording came in with a brand new Les Paul Standard, bought for over 2k in a certain shop beginning with W. He was playing away, sounded great apart from when he played a particular chord which was woegeous. Turned out, somehow, the 3rd fret on the low E string was playing notes sharp. Play open E, in tune. F, in tune. F#, in tune. G, badly sharp. G#, in tune. A, in tune. We tried new strings, all sorts of things but it was sharp when every other note was in tune no matter what. I do believe the POS was replaced under warranty.

If you saw that on an Epiphone you'd be disappointed and possibly a little surprised. On a 2k+ Gibson, unacceptable.

That's a fuckin' joke, no excuse for that! :mad:

Voodu Child

Its a global market these days. You can't get away with charging over the odds for a guitar if it can be had cheaper from the US, or ebay, or the UK, or wherever.

That applies for stores, distributers, and regular 2nd hand sellers. Its nothing new, ive been laughing for the last 5 years at the guys selling (or buying:rolleyes:) used Marshalls on adverts for more than the new price on GAK.

Same goes for Gibson, they've ALWAYS been available cheaper if you new where to look. The only thing that's changed is that more and more people are wising up and shopping around. Theres still a section of the market, probably older guys, who havent a clue. They'll walk into Waltons and drop 3k on a LP and think they're getting great value. But they're a dying breed, even grannies use the internet these days, and when they're gone, most of the bricks and mortar shops will be f*cked if they havent done something.

If its true that Gibson now handle their own European distribution, and are lowering prices as a result, that's a good start.

smellslikeshoes

Would think the market is also just getting more competitive. The availability of brands like Bacchus that are pumping out amazing quality guitars for lots cheaper than what Gibson are doing.

boycey

About time Gibson got off their arse and organised 'Gibson Europe'. Good riddance Rosetti, hello (HOPEFULLY) cheaper guitars. It will be interesting to see how many Irish retailers will actually continue selling Gibson guitars though- Gibson are railroading retailers into carrying minimum stock levels etc (when I say minimum I think they demand 50% of total stock in the shop must be Gibson, or something like that). I reckon a lot of independent smaller retailers will tell them to f off.

As for competition, I dont think that really comes in to it. They have a market, they know their customer and they know theyre over-priced - they just dont care!!

Johnny Storm

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Would think the market is also just getting more competitive. The availability of brands like Bacchus that are pumping out amazing quality guitars for lots cheaper than what Gibson are doing.

I'd imagine Gibson can produce as many guitars per minute as Bacchus can do in a couple of years.

darrenw5094

The employee in my local store tells me this new deal with Gibson means they will be €500 cheaper than the current store price.......

That is no lie...

Doctor J

€1700 is still at least €500 too much for a Les Paul

Demeyes

To be honest, I can't understand why anyone ever paid 2-3k for an LP. For that money you can get much better gear and for less from someone else. Way too many people buy Gibson because of the name, and only now are some people realising they paid too much? There are ads advertising much cheaper prices in all the guitar mags as well as the internet.

darrenw5094

A seller on Buyandsell from Limerick letting one go for €900
The times are changing. Slash needs to come out with a corker of a record next time or you are gone this time Gibson.

Gibson.....if you were to get a Guns N'Roses re-union....that should boost sales....and then you could put your prices up again.......amazing.:cool:

Scoual

Hi Guys,
just to correct some info that i've read on this thread, Rosetti used to handle distribution in the uk not Europe, as for Ireland waltons still is Gibson distributor, and they seem to be slashing down their prices on Gibson too, :eek:

darrenw5094

i still won't be buying another one.....ever.....:D

kranog

I got my '76 les paul for a snip on ebay a few years back...I love it despite the amount of grief it's given me and maybe it's an attitude thing....but no other guitar says "my knob is huge!" quite like a les paul....and sometimes...I need that reassurance!

Les Paul...sounds cool....looks cool.....you're knob is humongous!

darrenw5094

They have 4 knobs and a toggle switch. Most guitars have 3 at the most........that gives them an unfair advantage :D:D:D:D:D

Fad

Doctor J wrote: »

(hello PRS :pac: )

I wouldnt be so sure

Now admittedly its an SE that i own, but i read about the supposed quality control exercised on their products, MY ARSEHOLE! the whole feckin is incredibly badly intonated especially the G string , and whats worse is that its nigh on impossible to intonate. I repeat i know its a an SE but i expected alot more, id think twice before buying a PRS to be honest make sure i think about all the alternatives.


Out of interest whats the quality of Fenders at the moment.

Doctor J

The SE are made about 4000 miles away from the real thing, and about 4000 miles away in terms of standard too. They're very different guitars, about as relevant to each other as Squier and US Fender.

Besides, didn't I say PRS were overpriced for what you get? :pac:

smellslikeshoes

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I'd imagine Gibson can produce as many guitars per minute as Bacchus can do in a couple of years.

Yea definitely but there is plenty more bacchus style brands available now than there was a few years ago. The market for high end guitars like Gibson make can't be very big and the availability of great guitars like Bacchas must be having some sort of effect.
I know myself that up to 6 or 7 years ago if you wanted a high end guitar you really didn't have that much of a choice, you would almost automatically be going for a gibson. For proof of how much it has changed you only have look in the picture thread in this forum to see how many other high end brands there are available.

Sergio

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Yea definitely but there is plenty more bacchus style brands available now than there was a few years ago. The market for high end guitars like Gibson make can't be very big and the availability of great guitars like Bacchas must be having some sort of effect.
I know myself that up to 6 or 7 years ago if you wanted a high end guitar you really didn't have that much of a choice, you would almost automatically be going for a gibson. For proof of how much it has changed you only have look in the picture thread in this forum to see how many other high end brands there are available.

I too am trying to sell my gibson LP at the moment and am finding it tough.
I play Ernieball Musicman guitars now and there the most fantastic instruments around at the moment in my opinion.
I was at the guitar show in london last weekend&the EBMM stand was by far the busiest.
people are getting alot more eduacated these days and are not running out to buy the big name brands anymore as they arent as good as they used to be;)

darrenw5094

Fad wrote: »

I wouldnt be so sure

Now admittedly its an SE that i own, but i read about the supposed quality control exercised on their products, MY ARSEHOLE! the whole feckin is incredibly badly intonated especially the G string , and whats worse is that its nigh on impossible to intonate. I repeat i know its a an SE but i expected alot more, id think twice before buying a PRS to be honest make sure i think about all the alternatives.

SE is nowhere near a CE or Custom PRS man. You get what you pay for man. PRS bargains on ebay lately...PRS Custom 22 '10 top' in emerald green and bird inlays for €1180 all in from the UK......snip for what it is.
Another one Custom 24 in yellow with '10 top' and birds again for about €1320 from the UK. Well worth the cash, i think.....:)

sei046

Thats a serious price for that Emreald PRS. I like prs. Not love..... I really like the quality but i find the necks quite big and the tone never fully sat with me. Its a LOVELY tone but I was never gone on the pickups or something.

boycey

I'd agree with you there sei046, I had a ce24, fabulous guitar but just didnt sit right with me somehow. Its long gone now, but I will say its the only guitar I could ever do that whole 'controlling everything from the guitar' thing with. It went from a really nice clean to screaming dirty using just the volume pot, the tone pots were so responsive too it was very easy to get loads of different tones. And yet it still didnt do it for me. Maybe Im just too Gibsonized in my old age!!

corkstudent

I paid about €250 for my Washburn and I love it as much as any Gibson. It sounds amazing for a cheap guitar. It's actually worth a heck of a lot more than that, it was overstock, but still, it was a great deal.

I think you should just find a guitar you really like. Chances are there's dozens of other guitars besides a Les Paul that will suit you just as well.

darrenw5094

sei046 wrote: »

Thats a serious price for that Emreald PRS. I like prs. Not love..... I really like the quality but i find the necks quite big and the tone never fully sat with me. Its a LOVELY tone but I was never gone on the pickups or something.

24 fret models have wide thin necks and some do come in a regular size also.
The 22 fret models are mostly 'wide fat', which means fairly thick and rounded.

Try out a PRS Custom 24 and see what the story is......as for pickups, €50 brand new off ebay.......

Someone has to stick up for the PRS.....i can understand some people knocking Gibson.......but PRS.......

Fad

Doctor J wrote: »

The SE are made about 4000 miles away from the real thing, and about 4000 miles away in terms of standard too. They're very different guitars, about as relevant to each other as Squier and US Fender.

Besides, didn't I say PRS were overpriced for what you get? :pac:

Oh i wasnt aiming that at just you, other people mentioned it too, but my points (however poorly conveyed) was that even if a guitar is associated with a brand it doesnt mean its a good guitar. It took me about a month or so of playing to realise it properly but now i can barely play it with the feckin intonation, Im back to playing my Vintage and my awful Oakman thats in Drop C#

Byron85

Actually what are people's opinions of the Les Paul Studio Models?? I've been hearing varying things about the quality etc. I can get a 2004 model from the states for €750 and i'm seriously considering it seeing as my budget is only €900, €1,000 at the very most.

Doctor J

You see, €1000 is a lot of money and, in my opinion, you shouldn't settle for an inferior guitar with that kind of budget. A lttle savvy and a little research and you should be able to pick up something truly exceptional.

Patricide

Obviously il state my case for prs before i go on about gibson. Best guitars ive ever played(and ive played a lot, not bacchus or eggle mind). Are they too expensive? Yup, but you know when you buy a real prs that its totally hand made to the most grueling standards, ive never heard of anyone ever getting a dud prs. Plus they look and sound great too obviously haha.

Now for gibson, iv played a load of different gibsons and tbh the only one i was EVER impressed with was one of the sg standards iv played. And even that had dodgey knobs on it. For the price i cant see how absolutly anyone in there right minds could pay for one. Edwards ftw here me thinks!!

Quattroste

For €1000 I would consider the Japanese makers eg Tokai, Bacchus, Edwards etc. I managed to get a Tokai LS200 for a tad over what you have. Gibby equivelent = €3.5k+

Trev M

I play two Gibsons regularly ... A 2002 Les Paul Classic and a 1976 50's Les Paul Standard (owner by Kranog there) . Both guitars are excellent guitars and havent become bad guitars over night.

Yeah prices are dipping because they are going outta fashion no doubt about it . The Slash / GNR comments are spot on the money I think ( no pun intended).... PRS are about to take a dive soon too I suspect (Mark my words I can feel it in me waters:D)....Kranog has a lovely one but I just cant play it at all , its a preference thing I guess.

I think people are a lot wiser these days and its easier to get quality thats affordable as Doc eludes to....personally Im still a bit dodgy about buying online before actually playing the guitar...

Ive played Docs Duke is a fabulous instrument , and at the price was a real find. Id say its above par and would buy it over a gibson for the price .My Classic v The Duke(soapbars) Id say bought are quality instruments but doc got value for money no doubt.

Saying Gibson / PRS are **** guitars now is completely retarded in my opinion... the conversation should be about value for money.Im sure we've all played great squires and bad fenders, guitars do vary from piece to piece over the years and you can be lucky or unlucky.

If you know what your looking at you may very well pick up a scroching Les Paul for a great price because they're not "cool" anymore.

All Im saying is , Gibsons make great guitars if you know what youre looking at , the name alone doesnt make the guitar....some les paul studios are magnificent instruments, some are terrible.

Some "brand name" mid rangers are amazing for the money Schecter C1+ , Ive played 4 , yet to play a bad one. I bought a Dean Hard tail a while back and its super sounding guitar....(PLayed to Vendetat which needless to say reflected their price tag) . Some of the Ibanez 500-600 Rgs can be great , again if you know what your after.

I for one look forward to the demise of the Gibson so I can pick up another fine guitar that I'll enjoy for years...keep an open mind lads

Doctor J

A very well considered and balanced post there, Trev

Johnny Storm

Doctor J wrote: »

A very well considered and balanced post there, Trev

Ban him immediately! :mad:

spoonbadger

All Im saying is , Gibsons make great guitars if you know what youre looking at , the name alone doesnt make the guitar....some les paul studios are magnificent instruments, some are terrible.

True, some are great, but when your paying more than 1.5k for a standard les paul you shouldnt have to worry about getting a lemon .

Like Mr. Quatt said,there's great alternatives out there. Edwards guitars (check ebay) that are selling for 700E online have everything gibson standards have, and more,for half the price!.

Gibson have a nasty habit of cheaping out with their guitars. For years,they've been drilling holes in the mahogany bodies and calling it "weight relief". Ya see,they're using cheaper (and hence heavier) mahog for their guitars so they have to drill big-a55 holes in it (bottom left corner usually) so that they dont seem unusually heavy.

They also cheap out on the neck joint. The pre 70s gibsons (and alot of the made in japan copies nowadays) use the bottom type of neck join, modern gibbos (below 3.5k at least ) use the top joint, which is weaker,cheaper and has much less sustain transfer...



Think i'm being too picky?. Feel free to drop 3,500E on a gibson

boycey

Its funny how much discussion this generates on here, any thread discussing Bacchus, Gibson or Tokai will always end up discussing all three, whos better, whos best . If Gibson wound up a)Trev would pick up his cheap and cherished Les Paul and b)we'd have shag all to talk about. Then what, we all venture outdoors and take up sport or samba classes or something:p

Doctor J

If everybody wasn't so caught up with these brands nobody has heard of it wouldn't be half as much fun

Sergio

Gibson are a thing of the past in my opinion.i sold my les apaul std model a few days ago and got €1300 for it.i was hoping to get €1500 for it but there wasnt a hope even though it was in mint condition.
As alot of u people have mentioned already, the internet is a wonderful tool these days which can open your eyes to real value for money when buying instruments,gear etc.

i bought my LP&marshall amp originally because i loved slash growing up and still do but i am lot more eduacated now and have made some great contacts in the uk&usa from internet forums.
i play Ernieball musicman guitars now and in my opinion they are the best on the market for craftmanship and customer service.
my LP was sitting in my wardrobe since last year after i got my musicman model as they playability doesnt compare with both brands.

fguihen

I see a lot of folks saying you can pick up great bargins online if you know where to look.

maby its me, but if your paying 1500 for a guitar and can still get a lemon ( which is unacceptable, but regardless) then I would not purchase anything i have not played and inspected . 1500 is a potload of cash and if i recieve a dud, it'l cost me a lot to ship the guitar back, or if the seller pays, it will cause me a pile of headaches trying to get the seller to accept it.

I totally agree that there are bargins to be had online, but when you can get a lemon from even an expensive line of guitars where quality control should let nothing but the best pass, I wouldnt purchase online.

spoonbadger

Imo, Fg, that's why some MIJ guitars are great!. Even if you do get a lemon, you can easily sell it on again on ebay. There's relatively few MIJs selling inside Europe on ebay (and lots from japan) so it should be easy to find a buyer who doesnt want to buy outside the EU.

And,to be honest with the reputation they're gaining, some MIJ brands could even sell well in the irish market, in stores or adverts...

...ok,maybe thats hoping for too much

kranog

Some very valid points made here....and I agree with the "not buying online" principle...however, I don't think it matters to be honest if yer buying a Les Paul....you'll pay a snip online for it and if for some reason you got a lemon (as I did!)....it doesn't take much to really make it perfect...
You visit www.specialityguitars.com and buy wiring upgrade kit, I recommend the one for 48 biucks and the Hovland caps.
Then spend the few quid and get the guitar fully serviced and there you have it, problem sorted and for less than 100 blips!
I think the point being made that although the competition is fierce now (which is good for the buyer), Gibson/PRS have in no way lost their edge, they were the finest guitars available and they still are the finest guitars available...while there's some very high quality mid-range guitars out there that are very good deals...they still don't pack the awesome tones that gibson/PRS do....and trust me here folks....I've played just about all of what's out there!

Sergio

kranog wrote: »

Some very valid points made here....and I agree with the "not buying online" principle...however, I don't think it matters to be honest if yer buying a Les Paul....you'll pay a snip online for it and if for some reason you got a lemon (as I did!)....it doesn't take much to really make it perfect...
You visit www.specialityguitars.com and buy wiring upgrade kit, I recommend the one for 48 biucks and the Hovland caps.
Then spend the few quid and get the guitar fully serviced and there you have it, problem sorted and for less than 100 blips!
I think the point being made that although the competition is fierce now (which is good for the buyer), Gibson/PRS have in no way lost their edge, they were the finest guitars available and they still are the finest guitars available...while there's some very high quality mid-range guitars out there that are very good deals...they still don't pack the awesome tones that gibson/PRS do....and trust me here folks....I've played just about all of what's out there!

Have ya tried musicman guitars my friend?

i recently sold my LP as i didnt play it anymore after buying a beautiful 'BFR John Petrucci' musicman signature last.there guitar quality and playability are streets ahead of gibson in my opinion.

kranog

I have...used to own a Sub Silhouette guitar...I liked it alot....but it doesn't touch my les paul as far as tone and rhythym go....lead, I think a les paul is an impractical lead guitar to be honest....unless you get one with a tapered neck...they work....I think PRS is the all rounder...i'll never get rid of mine, I don't care how "uncool" people want to believe they are!
Nice guitar ya have by the way!

Sergio

kranog wrote: »

I have...used to own a Sub Silhouette guitar...I liked it alot....but it doesn't touch my les paul as far as tone and rhythym go....lead, I think a les paul is an impractical lead guitar to be honest....unless you get one with a tapered neck...they work....I think PRS is the all rounder...i'll never get rid of mine, I don't care how "uncool" people want to believe they are!
Nice guitar ya have by the way!

ive always liked the gibson LP tone but they are too bulky around the neck and its not comfortable sitting&playing with it also.
you should check out some of the newer stuff EBMM have come out with the last few years.you should check out the axis supersport or the silohouette which is similiar to a strat but nicer in my opinion.
the thing that is so attractive about their guitars is the necks are so damn comfortable which make it a joy to play.
The tone of my BFR is fantastic.my buddy played it live recently and the other guitar player was playing a LP but the BFR cut through the mix&out shone the LP that night.
im looking to a buy another MM soon to add to y collection:)

fguihen

i still dont believe in spending 100 quid for new wiring and a propper set up, on a guitar from a "reputable" company that should be sending out all guitars in A1 condition after stringent qa. Your 100 bucks is 100 bucks that should be spent by gibson. instead they cheap out as they know folks will do it themselves. 100 bucks saved by gibson, and you can bet they dont pass this saving on!

why pay for something when the customer will pay extra to do it themselves i guess??

Doctor J

If you spend 1k on a guitar you shouldn't have to replace a thing. End of story.