No Irish injuries in Chad clashes

uptherebels

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0614/chad.html?rss
from link
Irish troops in Chad have been fired on during clashes between rebels and Government forces.

There are no Irish injuries and the situation around the Irish camp is described as calm but tense.

A statement from the Defence Forces said it was not clear who was responsible.

The patrol briefly returned warning fire from their armoured vehicle and there were no casualties.

The clashes between the rebels and government troops in Chad took place near where the four hundred Irish peacekeepers are stationed at Goz Beida just after noon Irish time.

Additional Irish troops were deployed out of their base to increase their presence in protecting thousands of refugees and displaced persons.

Aid workers are being relocated to the Irish base if they want to. A planned visit to Chad by Minister Willie O'Dea and chief of staff Dermot Earley on Monday is going ahead.

Poccington

Glad to hear there was no casualties.

The lads are doing us proud over there.

c-90

what are the bets that it wont be first storey on the news:rolleyes:

eroo

Hope they stay safe,because I don't think this will be a once off incident!

I was thinking earlier,why wasn't an element of ARW personnel kept over there?They could be incredibly useful on such a dangersous mission..whether it is LRRP's or just having a SF element on hand could be a great assett.I think the Belgian's still have a SF element serving in Chad do they not?

Fratton Fred

From Auntie Beeb.

Sounds like this may be a frequent event for the lads out there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7454749.stm

Anti-government rebels in Chad have launched an attack on the town of Goz Beida, near the border with Sudan.

The United Nations reported fighting in the town, which is home to 15,000 Darfur refugees.

A rebel leader said Goz Beida had fallen to his forces and they would take the capital N'Djamena by Sunday.

Chadian Communication Minister Mahamat Hissene told the BBC that government forces were being organised to defend the capital.

The rebels reportedly launched an offensive in the east of the country on Wednesday, and Mr Hissene said the rebels were being armed and organised by Sudan.

They claim to have twice as many vehicles and men as when they attacked N'Djamena in February.

The insurgents had sought to overthrow President Idriss Deby and they managed to reach his palace before being repelled.

Proxy war

The latest fighting in Goz Beida, which is 75km (46 miles) from the Sudanese border, is reported to be fierce.

Rebel columns of between 80 and 100 trucks were seen racing towards Goz Beida, according to news agency Reuters.

Goz Beida is surrounded by UN-run camps housing thousands of refugees who have fled the conflict-ridden Darfur region of Sudan.



Irish members of an EU protection force in eastern Chad are said to have taken up defensive positions between the fighting and one of the refugee camps.

The UN has said Sudan and Chad are fighting a proxy war through each other's rebel groups.

Chad closed its border with Sudan last month and suspended economic ties.

That came after Sudan cut diplomatic relations with Chad following an attack by Darfur rebels near the Sudanese capital, Khartoum.

Sudan accuses Chad of backing rebels in Darfur - charges denied by Chad.

The two countries have signed numerous peace deals but these have never held.

Trotter

Its going to be a case of learning fast for the lads and girls over there. There's big responsibilities on the officers and senior NCOs with experience of Lebanon and Liberia. Theres going to be a massive percentage of soldiers who will experience being under hostile fire for the first time. From what I've heard, the training in Ireland has been good so added to the fact that they've got through this first attack ok, I hope the troops are very well set to deal with problems.

The official line from the army is that they don't yet know who fired on the Irish. You can be sure they know in Chad who it was, or otherwise they're well on the way to finding out.

Manic Moran

eroo wrote: »

I was thinking earlier,why wasn't an element of ARW personnel kept over there?They could be incredibly useful on such a dangersous mission..whether it is LRRP's or just having a SF element on hand could be a great assett.I think the Belgian's still have a SF element serving in Chad do they not?

I have no reason to think that a common or garden infantry unit shouldn't be quite capable of doing whatever needs to be done under the mandate the Irish are supposedly working under. I mean, "Such a dangerous mission" is pretty relative, it's still far less than an infantry soldier is supposed to be able to deal with.

NTM

Sierra Oscar

Tensions are running high I am betting.

King Ludvig

Things were bound to heat up at some stage. Lets hope any other encounters end as well as this one.

Almost a full 20 seconds on the nine o clock news::rolleyes:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0614/chad_av.html?2387495,null,230

NewsWire

Hey guys, would anyone here be able to tell me the breakdown of the 97th infantry which is over there, i.e from what barracks is it made up of? i understand it is mostly from the Western brigade.

Im trying ascertain if there is any batalions from our Sarsfield Barracks in Limerick out there.would anyone know?

I cant find any of this info on the Army website.

Cheers.

Irish_Army01

eroo wrote: »

AFAIK,there are no personnel from Sarsefield in Chad.There are some in Kosove,or maybe they came home?I'm not sure!

Not trying to be Smart but, why did you comment if you didn't know?

There more than likely are some Elements from Sarsfield. There are even some from the East.

Ponster

Interesting article in the Times :

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0618/1213735260039.html

concussion

And an apology

UN apologises over Irish forces criticism
Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea has received an apology from the United Nations after a spokeswoman criticised Irish forces patrolling the Chad-Darfur border for not intervening when armed rebels looted their compound.

Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea has said he has received an apology from the United Nations after a spokeswoman criticised Irish forces patrolling the Chad-Darfur border, for not intervening when armed rebels looted their compound.

Rebels entered the offices of the UN's refugee agency last Saturday, which is just 9km from the Irish base, and threatened staff at gunpoint while stealing satellite phones as well as fuel.

A UNHCR spokeswoman in Chad told the Irish Times: 'If a humanitarian base is attacked, and we were, logic tells you they should have protected us.'

However, speaking on Morning Ireland, Minister O'Dea said the Defence Forces had acted when they were informed of the incident and moved more than 200 humanitarian staff to their base, Camp Ciara.

He said he had received thanks from UN staff on the ground and, this morning, and also received an apology for the criticism that had been levelled at the Defence Forces from the UNHCR spokeswoman.

From RTÉ News
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0618/chad.html

Cato

i hope it was a good apology...

Chuck Norri

Good article on this from reuters...



http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSL1853105020080618?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=0

Fratton Fred

I can understand this viewpoint though

A UNHCR spokeswoman in Chad told the Irish Times: 'If a humanitarian base is attacked, and we were, logic tells you they should have protected us.'

I'd be pissed off in their position.

Whilst I guess this is more a Eufor issue than an IDF issue, if they can't protect a humanitarian base 9km away then what exactly are they doing out there?

Poccington

One could also raise the question as to why that spokeswoman decided to comment on an incident which she knew very little about and then was later forced to apologise for her comments. After it was pointed out by people on the ground(Rather than miles away) that the EUFOR troops did a damn good job.

I mean, how dare EUFOR troops actually move said people to Camp Ciara and put them up, feeding them and giving them somewhere to sleep..... Especially after said people were warned their position was unsafe. Those EUFOR folk really are no good tyrants :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

Poccington wrote: »

One could also raise the question as to why that spokeswoman decided to comment on an incident which she knew very little about and then was later forced to apologise for her comments. After it was pointed out by people on the ground(Rather than miles away) that the EUFOR troops did a damn good job.

I mean, how dare EUFOR troops actually move said people to Camp Ciara and put them up, feeding them and giving them somewhere to sleep..... Especially after said people were warned their position was unsafe. Those EUFOR folk really are no good tyrants :rolleyes:

sorry, I mised the bit that said they were doing a damn good job, all I read was that after a UN office was raided by the people Eufor are there to protect them from, the staff were moved into the Eufor base.

Eufor are there to protect the UN aid agencies, in this instance they did not (For various understandable reasons) so how can this be seen as a damn good job, it is a failure.

OK, they have taken action to try and prevent it happening again, but in the long term, moving aid workers into Camp Ciara isn't going to help the people they are there to help.

Cato

easy... this deployment is a political maneuver judging by numbers and area they have to cover i think the force is only really in a reactionary role so show of political strength, the DF are doing a damn fine job, and should not be judged in this way...

ChapOfDRyans

Well we done no what really happened theres two sides to every story.DF were good enough to to give them shelter at the camp,who knows maybe there was a communication problem or something

RugbyFanatic

Embarassing that The DF didn't go in there and prevent this from happening. I think the one thing both sides agree on is that DF did wait until the rebels had gone before coming in and watched from a distance.

Shame

cp251

I'm reminded of the opening scene in 'Blackhawk Down'. The circling helicopter reports that gunmen are looting an aid truck and killing people. He's told not to intervene. There's a similar theme in 'Three Kings' where the Americans can't intervene to stop the Iraqi army killing it's own people.

I suspect something similar is happening here. It's not an Irish issue it's a terms or reference issue for the mission. The French have stated they won't intervene militarily. The same applies to the Irish. They must remain neutral.

I suspect there will be more incidents like this.

Manic Moran

I thought the problem was that the Irish were some distance away, and were unable to respond in time? (No helicopters... :P)

NTM

ChapOfDRyans

Well having no helicopters is a big problem and we really should be working closer with the French for support and intel.

You cant just criticise the Irish as we dont know what happened,maybe the Irish did act quickly but we no paved roads and the risk of IED's,there is only so fast you can drive.

eroo

The DF have hired a few Russian Mil helicopters,same as ones used in Liberia.

Oilrig

It looks like the EUFOR intel has failed big time.
i.e. piss poor preparations. Bad omen.

I have a bad feeling about this deployment.

ChapOfDRyans

eroo wrote: »

The DF have hired a few Russian Mil helicopters,same as ones used in Liberia.

who is going to fly these heli's or is this just a rumor

RugbyFanatic

Will O'Dea is saying he can't see us staying past March 2009

when the going gets tough we get going.

cushtac

ChapOfDRyans wrote: »

who is going to fly these heli's or is this just a rumor

Helicopters hired to aid Irish in Chad
By Don Lavery
22/06/2008
Sunday Independent

TWO Russian helicopters with Ukrainian crews have been hired by the Government to support Irish troops in Chad.

The two aircraft are to be deployed to support the Irish battalion base at Camp Ciara at Goz Bieda in the east of the country and will be used for a variety of tasks, including reconnaissance.

The move comes after a surprise rebel attack on Chad government forces near the town last week which saw Irish Cavalry troopers in a Mowag armoured vehicle return fire for the first time after they came under attack.

Now the Department of Defence has signed a contract through a British brokerage firm Air Partner for two Mil-8T Hip helicopters which will be based at Camp Ciara.

The Russian helicopters are known as sturdy workhorses throughout Africa with over 10,000 manufactured, and they will be used for medevac, troop transport, resupply, and reconnaissance.

The Defence Forces said the helicopters, which will be based at a helipad in the Irish base, will prove very useful in the rainy season when movement by road transport will be particularly difficult.

The helicopters will be used at the direction of the battalion commander and are being seen as a major boost to the Irish unit in Chad where Eufor helicopters are at a premium.

The Hip helicopter was used extensively by Irish troops in Liberia as a troop transport flown by the Ukrainian Air Force to insert patrols into difficult terrain and later extract them, while Mil-24 Hind gunship helicopters provided top cover for Irish mobile patrols.

The Hip helicopter can carry up to 24 troops or 12 stretchers and will be particularly useful resupplying Irish and Dutch Marine long range patrols in Chad with fuel, food, water and ammunition, as well as being available for medevac duties.

However, one difficulty is that the Hip helicopter is also used by Chadian government forces but it is understood the Hips used by the Irish will be "sufficiently different" to ensure they are not fired upon by rebel groups.

One solution, used by Irish Air Corps Alouette helicopters in the Border area to distinguish them from British Army craft during the Troubles, would be to paint a large Irish Tricolour on the underneath of the helicopter.

It is not the first time the Government has hired Russian aircraft to aid the €67m Chad mission; earlier this year giant Antonov-124 transport aircraft were used to ferry Irish Special Forces and their 4x4 vehicles from Dublin to the African country.

Meanwhile, a fifth new AW-139 helicopter will be delivered to the Air Corps this month; while the sixth helicopter on order will land at Baldonnel in October.

cp251

Excellent but will the Ukranian crews fly into a 'hot LZ' in support of an embattled unit surrounded by rebels? Quite possibly knowing the way some of those crew operate.

As for painting a tricolour on the fuselage. Well the Chadian rebels won't know what that means. Just give them an aiming point for their RPG's.

Frankly this is beginning to remind me of the Congo......................

zig

was chatting to a friend last night who was happy to tell me theyre being treated well, mainly decent cooked food, good aircon in the tents,decent gym, internet and cheap call cards, just thought Id brighten up the thread a little!!!

ChapOfDRyans

Thats a good thing anyway the little things like that would raise moral for the troops.

Local-womanizer

The Independent(the newspaper)was saying that in the few weeks the Irish have been in Chad has been worse than all the years in Liberia in terms of tension and the chance of spilling over big time.Lets hope their wrong.

And I heard from someone over there that the worst thing is the flies and bugs!Big feckers!Lets hope that that will be the worst thing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Will O'Dea is saying he can't see us staying past March 2009

when the going gets tough we get going.

Your full of sh*t, "when the going gets tough we get going". Since we wthdrew from Lebanon in 2001 all our deployments since have been short term.

Our Defence Forces equipt themselves for short term missions, and indeed even before that, the old UNIFIL mandate overseeing UN resolutions 425 and 426 where signed and a six monthly basis.

RugbyFanatic

Mairt wrote: »

Your full of sh*t, "when the going gets tough we get going". Since we wthdrew from Lebanon in 2001 all our deployments since have been short term.

Our Defence Forces equipt themselves for short term missions, and indeed even before that, the old UNIFIL mandate overseeing UN resolutions 425 and 426 where signed and a six monthly basis.

Actually I am not it was in the paper and had someone from within the DF complaining that they have set up for a minimum stay of 2 years and couldn't believe Willie was considering pulling out before March.

Calm down I am only reiterating what was written in the Irish Times.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Calm down I am only reiterating what was written in the Irish Times.

The Times newpaper wrote this "when the going gets tough we get going"?.

Do you have a link to that because I'd like to write a letter of protest to them, plus a letter to the Defence Forces Press Officer bringing it to the attention of his office also.

RugbyFanatic

Mairt wrote: »

The Times newpaper wrote this "when the going gets tough we get going"?.

Do you have a link to that because I'd like to write a letter of protest to them, plus a letter to the Defence Forces Press Officer bringing it to the attention of his office also.

That was the gist of it yes. And no I don't have a link as I read it in the paper. Basically saying how the situation is detoriating and that what is needed is the DF putting more troops in Chad however it is likely with the worsening crisis that we will simply pull out before March.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

That was the gist of it yes.

So what your saying is that "when the going gets tough we get going" is YOUR opinion and not tha of The Times news paper!.

Like I said about your earlier post - 'Your full of sh*t'.

RugbyFanatic

Mairt wrote: »

So what your saying is that "when the going gets tough we get going" is YOUR opinion and not tha of The Times news paper!.

Like I said about your earlier post - 'Your full of sh*t'.

Pretty accurate summary seeing as the article was saying that as the situation detoriates the DF are looking for a quick exit.

Get over it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Pretty accurate summary seeing as the article was saying that as the situation detoriates the DF are looking for a quick exit.

Get over it.

Get over THERE..

Oh wait, that would mean actually being in the job and having some balls.

RugbyFanatic

Mairt wrote: »

Get over THERE..

Oh wait, that would mean actually being in the job and having some balls.

I am going to be joining the British Army in a few months and will more than likely serve in Afghanistan or Iraq and not on a peacekeeping mission so don't talk to me about balls

arybvtcw0eolkf

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I am going to be joining the British Army in a few months and will more than likely serve in Afghanistan or Iraq and not on a peacekeeping mission so don't talk to me about balls

You might be going where with the B.A. ?.

:rolleyes:

RugbyFanatic

Mairt wrote: »

You might be going where with the B.A. ?.

:rolleyes:

Is there a problem?

theres still over 5000 active B.A troops there.

eroo

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Is there a problem?

theres still over 5000 active B.A troops there.

So the fact that some of those mere ''peacekeepers'' have several tours done overseas,they don't match up to the BA in A'stan or Iraq?I think you'll find they have a vast amount of experience(not to mention respect)of serving overseas,more than any squaddie.Just because the BA may take life in a conflict,doesn't mean they are better than our guys and gals.Grow up,and reference Mairts earlier posts.

Poccington

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I am going to be joining the British Army in a few months and will more than likely serve in Afghanistan or Iraq and not on a peacekeeping mission so don't talk to me about balls

You have to actually finish training before you can start talking about where you'll be going.

Oh and as for "peacekeeping missions" you say that like there's never been any danger on those missions. Perhaps you should tell that to the lads who served on those missions and the families of those who died over there? Show some respect to those that stepped up to the plate, while you..... A civilian who has yet to experience any type of hardship related to the military, can only talk about what you're going to do :rolleyes:

So until you've stepped up to the plate and completed the training, less time spent talking of what you're going to do...... And more time showing a bit of ****ing respect to those that have done what you only dream of doing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Poc, I think you might have frightened the poor kid away now

minidazzler

Poccington wrote: »

You have to actually finish training before you can start talking about where you'll be going.

Maybe he should actually get with the starting first!!!!


He said he will be joining the BA.

How does he know he will deffo get in,

What a Twat!!! (Him not you Poc)

RugbyFanatic

Poccington wrote: »

You have to actually finish training before you can start talking about where you'll be going.

Oh and as for "peacekeeping missions" you say that like there's never been any danger on those missions. Perhaps you should tell that to the lads who served on those missions and the families of those who died over there? Show some respect to those that stepped up to the plate, while you..... A civilian who has yet to experience any type of hardship related to the military, can only talk about what you're going to do :rolleyes:

So until you've stepped up to the plate and completed the training, less time spent talking of what you're going to do...... And more time showing a bit of ****ing respect to those that have done what you only dream of doing.

Firstly you can go **** yourself where have I not shown respect you complete and utter tool all I did was post what was essentially said in the Irish times. My brother is actually serving in Afghanistan and his best friend, a family friend was killed over there so you can shut your mouth before drawing conclusions about people you dont know. And these aren't dreams I am joining after the summer concrete not some ****in dream

You ****ing idiot.

Poccington

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I am going to be joining the British Army in a few months and will more than likely serve in Afghanistan or Iraq and not on a peacekeeping mission so don't talk to me about balls

So you're telling me that by making that post you didn't in any way downplay Peacekeeping missions?

And as I've already said, you've yet to do a tap in any military organisation so less talk of what you're going to be doing in a few months. You come in here talking about how you're off to Iraq and A-Stan rather than a Peacekeeping mission, throwing out lines such as "Don't talk to me about balls" but haven't even started training, have you even started the application process?

"Don't talk to me about balls"..... This forum is populated by people who have stepped up to the plate Overseas, both in the name of Ireland and other countries. To say to those same people "Don't talk to me about balls" it's just plain ridiculous. I believe you may well be having delusions of grandeur.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Rugbyfanatic reported for personal abuse.

RugbyFanatic

Poccington wrote: »

So you're telling me that by making that post you didn't in any way downplay Peacekeeping missions?

And as I've already said, you've yet to do a tap in any military organisation so less talk of what you're going to be doing in a few months. You come in here talking about how you're off to Iraq and A-Stan rather than a Peacekeeping mission, throwing out lines such as "Don't talk to me about balls" but haven't even started training, have you even started the application process?

"Don't talk to me about balls"..... This forum is populated by people who have stepped up to the plate Overseas, both in the name of Ireland and other countries. To say to those same people "Don't talk to me about balls" it's just plain ridiculous. I believe you may well be having delusions of grandeur.

Basically I was saying that to say I dont have balls when I am signing up for what will be far more hostile missions is ridiculous.

I have already agreed with the recruiter in BA that I will be joining up after September.