RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:13am #1

RTE has suggested that based on early observations, the Lisbon Treaty may be in trouble with working class areas apparently voting 2 to 1 against the treaty.

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:16am

radio tv what ?

mike65 · 13-06-2008 9:16am

Listening to Pat Kennys programme and working class/inner city is deffo no by 70/30. The suburbs and rural vote will balance that.

Mike.

Jip · 13-06-2008 9:16am

Yeah, mostly 'No' dominating so far with no 'Yes' boxes ahead, closest being 50/50. Still early days yet.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:18am

Pal wrote: »

radio tv what ?

Source: www.rte.ie

It may be that the swing in Donegal could be based on a protest vote by the fishermen.

mike65 · 13-06-2008 9:19am

Limerick is a mixed bag but even the "rural" boxes are 50/50 so if urban Ireland is voting no then the referendum is lost.

Mike

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:22am

I have so say that despite all my firebranding on here lately, I would not blame the yes side for asking for another referendum based on a no decision coming from a low election turnout. It seems the turnout for this election was in the region of 45%, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement of anything, especially if the pollling is close. Having said that, I suppose if people want to sit at home and not bother voting there is not much that can be done about it, another election might not be any different in that respect. You can't blame the weather for a low turnout yesterday.

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:22am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Source: www.rte.ie

It may be that the swing in Donegal could be based on a protest vote by the fishermen.

thanks

Counting is under way in the Lisbon Referendum, and very early indications are that the treaty may be in some difficulty. Firmer indications are due late this morning.

Ballot boxes are being opened around the country, and while it is far too early to be definitive, the Yes side are not too happy with the early indications.

mike65 · 13-06-2008 9:24am

Cork is tight as ducks arse but the faces of the various establishment figuers is described as glum I guess they are looking at the suburban boxes and not seeing what they need, Kerry says no apparently.

edit Ballincollig says no (suburban). Fermoy says no on the basis of one box, Rathgormack (rural/commuter Cork City) says no

Waterford is very tight maybe edging no.

Mike.

ShooterSF · 13-06-2008 9:25am

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have so say that despite all my firebranding on here lately, I would not blame the yes side for asking for another referendum based on a no decision coming from a low election turnout. It seems the turnout for this election was in the region of 45%, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement of anything, especially if the pollling is close. Having said that, I suppose if people want to sit at home and not bother voting there is not much that can be done about it, another election might not be any different in that respect. You can't blame the weather for a low turnout yesterday.

And would you accept the no side making the same request if it were a yes vote? :rolleyes:

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:26am

lots of republican heads in Kerry. wouldn't be the norm.

too early I say.

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:27am

ShooterSF wrote: »

And would you accept the no side making the same request if it were a yes vote? :rolleyes:

does SF in ShooterSF stand for you know who ?

bill_ashmount · 13-06-2008 9:28am

Darragh29 wrote: »

I would not blame the yes side for asking for another referendum based on a no decision coming from a low election turnout.

lol

jank · 13-06-2008 9:29am

Looks like Lisbon is lost....

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 9:29am

getting a bad feeling that the no vote has it. fools....

Jip · 13-06-2008 9:33am

Call_me_al wrote: »

getting a bad feeling that the no vote has it. fools....

I see you're a good believer in the democratic process in this country......only if they agree with you of course.

colly10 · 13-06-2008 9:34am

Darragh29 wrote: »

I have so say that despite all my firebranding on here lately, I would not blame the yes side for asking for another referendum based on a no decision coming from a low election turnout. It seems the turnout for this election was in the region of 45%, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement of anything, especially if the pollling is close. Having said that, I suppose if people want to sit at home and not bother voting there is not much that can be done about it, another election might not be any different in that respect. You can't blame the weather for a low turnout yesterday.

If people have so little opinion on it that they arn't arsed to come out and vote then their opinion doesn't really matter anyway

ShooterSF · 13-06-2008 9:36am

Pal wrote: »

does SF in ShooterSF stand for you know who ?

No Pal but I can see why that's probably the concensus, It's actually just my harmless initials

Stabshauptmann · 13-06-2008 9:36am

Jip wrote: »

I see you're a good believer in the democratic process in this country......only if they agree with you of course.

TBH if I was running the country there'd be severe penalties for people deliberatly peddling lies in the run up to a referendum or election

Dirk_Diggler · 13-06-2008 9:37am

Democracy sucks.

Jip · 13-06-2008 9:40am

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

TBH if I was running the country there'd be severe penalties for people deliberatly peddling lies in the run up to a referendum or election

And again you're making the assumption that everyone who voted 'No' done so because they're gullible and believed in the lies.

Having said that I heard one woman who was interviewed in Galway who decided to vote no in the polling booth, her reason being that she didn't want her sons conscripted into the army

Maybe an IQ test before you get a vote is preferable.

bill_ashmount · 13-06-2008 9:40am

Call_me_al wrote: »

getting a bad feeling that the no vote has it. fools....

pity not everyone is as educated as you....:rolleyes:......fool

seamus · 13-06-2008 9:41am

ShooterSF wrote: »

And would you accept the no side making the same request if it were a yes vote? :rolleyes:

Well I would wholeheartedly support the idea of a quorum. That is, if only X amount of the electorate turns out, the vote is invalid.

I would have an issue with the Government putting the exact same thing up for a vote again. If, like Nice however, they made some fundamental changes to the constitutional amendments, then I see no issue with that.

Cadet? · 13-06-2008 9:41am

bill_ashmount wrote: »

pity not everyone is as educated as you....:rolleyes:......fool

Yup.

It is a pity.

mike65 · 13-06-2008 9:42am

Connaught/Ulster early tallies are 60/40 against

Galway West 40 % boxes open 56/44 no
Galway East 25% boxes open 50/50 no

Mayo 10% boxes 60/40 no

Sligo-Lietrim 30% boxes 66/44 no

Roscommen 50% boxes 56/44 no

Donegal NE 63/37 no

Mike.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:43am

ShooterSF wrote: »

And would you accept the no side making the same request if it were a yes vote? :rolleyes:

The point I made has no relation to the argument that forms the basis for the election or where someone might stand in relation to the debate. All I'm saying is that there is a case to be made for saying in future that before a referendum can be considered to be full and final, that maybe a "quorum" should be insisted on so that a majority of the people have actually spoken. Other's would argue that a non-voter can speak as loud as a voter by not voting, I just think people should go to the bother of voting. This nonsense that a referendum can be swung a particular way if a load of people stay at home and don't bother voting seems a bit Irish to me.

Stabshauptmann · 13-06-2008 9:45am

Jip wrote: »

And again you're making the assumption that everyone who voted 'No' done so because they're gullible and believed in the lies.

Having said that I head one woman who was interviewed in Galway who decided to vote no in the polling booth, her reason being that she didn't want her sons conscripted into the army
Maybe an IQ test before you get a vote is preferable.

You wouldnt have to be gullible, there seemed to be lots of different groups all telling the same stories and there were posters everywhere. You wouldnt have to be a fool to think this treaty affected our Tax system or right to have a permanent Commissioner.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:46am

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

TBH if I was running the country there'd be severe penalties for people deliberatly peddling lies in the run up to a referendum or election

I hear Zimbabwe are looking for a leader if your interested in sticking in your CV.

What Vision? · 13-06-2008 9:46am

There was allot of false alligations made about the treaty, and listening to that woman who didn't want her sons conscripted?

Maybe if they made a reality show out of the referendum more people would have voted.

"Ireland's next Referendum"

or

"Project Lisbon"

I know people have the right to vote and the right not to vote but turn out's of less that 60% it should be run again no matter what the result.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:47am

I know many people who have voted to maintain the status quo on this issue, based on a "if in doubt, throw it out" approach.

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 9:47am

Jip wrote: »

I see you're a good believer in the democratic process in this country......only if they agree with you of course.

if people only listened to me more there would be no need for a referendum.:D

sure the democratic process is a joke anyway, even if the no votes "wins" only 25% of the country's eligible voters would have made the decision, of which i would say 10% voted no because they didnt "understand" the treaty. and they my friend are the fools. this attitude "if you dont know vote no" is ridiculous and is the downfall of the system . if you (general public) havent bothered to get up off your lazy ass and find out about the treaty then you dont deserve a vote.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:48am

What Vision? wrote: »

There was allot of false alligations made about the treaty, and listening to that woman who didn't want her sons conscripted?

Maybe if they made a reality show out of the referendum more people would have voted.

"Ireland's next Referendum"

or

"Project Lisbon"

I know people have the right to vote and the right not to vote but turn out's of less that 60% it should be run again no matter what the result.

Well 50% plus one ought to do it.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:49am

Call_me_al wrote: »

if people only listened to me more there would be no need for a referendum.:D

sure the democratic process is a joke anyway, even if the no votes "wins" only 25% of the country's eligible voters would have made the decision, of which i would say 10% voted no because they didnt "understand" the treaty. and they my friend are the fools. this attitude "if you dont know vote no" is ridiculous and is the downfall of the system . if you (general public) havent bothered to get up off your lazy ass and find out about the treaty then you dont deserve a vote.

Say if your mentally disabled or have a learning disability, should you not be allowed to vote??? Sounds like it based on your comment above.

uptherebels · 13-06-2008 9:49am

Darragh29 wrote: »

The point I made has no relation to the argument that forms the basis for the election or where someone might stand in relation to the debate. All I'm saying is that there is a case to be made for saying in future that before a referendum can be considered to be full and final, that maybe a "quorum" should be insisted on so that a majority of the people have actually spoken. Other's would argue that a non-voter can speak as loud as a voter by not voting, I just think people should go to the bother of voting. This nonsense that a referendum can be swung a particular way if a load of people stay at home and don't bother voting seems a bit Irish to me.

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

mcaul · 13-06-2008 9:50am

It'll be interesting if SF & Libertas will take responsibility if this proves to have negative consequences for Ireland as I expect.

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 9:50am

bill_ashmount wrote: »

pity not everyone is as educated as you....:rolleyes:......fool

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

EDIT: Think i answered your question Darragh

mike65 · 13-06-2008 9:50am

Offally 57/43 YES!

No Laois numbers yet

Londford/W-meath no % but as bad as 2-1 NO

Wexford - the NOs appear to just have the edge

Wicklow 50/50 on 130 boxes open.

Carlow/Kilkenny too soon to be sure but looks about 50/50 right now.

Louth 50% open 57/43 NO

Meath 60% open 60/40 NO

Kildare 50% open 57/43 YES

Caven/Monaghan looks to be a NO.

Mike

Sherifu · 13-06-2008 9:50am

mike65 wrote: »

Connaught/Ulster early tallies are 60/40 against

Galway West 40 % boxes open 56/44 no
Galway East 25% boxes open 50/50 no

Mayo 10% boxes 60/40 no

Sligo-Lietrim 30% boxes 66/44 no

Roscommen 50% boxes 56/44 no

Donegal NE 63/37 no

Mike.

Doesn't look good.

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:51am

they peddled lies and the electorate bought it.
thats how politics works.
its democracy at work.
you all voted no for the American military machine.
ha ha

btw
our esteemed currency is falling rapid.
bet you didn't see that one coming.
no more CHristmas shopping in new york at the cheap rate.
mortgages going up too.

you all bought it.

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:52am

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

Yeah, there is that side of the argument as well. I suppose by not voting you are to a certain degree making a statement as well.

seamus · 13-06-2008 9:53am

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

Well, you can come up with "incentives" to force people to get off their ass.

Such as if it has to be voted on a third time, you enforce a national unpaid holiday.

suimhneas · 13-06-2008 9:54am

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins, which i sure as hell hope it does! whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for? is the sky about to fall?

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 9:55am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Say if your mentally disabled or have a learning disability, should you not be allowed to vote??? Sounds like it based on your comment above.

a learning disability does not reflect intelligence, my 18 year old brother is dyslexic and still managed to make an informed opinion by researching up on the treaty.

and if a mentally disabled person cant grasp the concept of what they are voting on then no of course they shouldnt be allowed to vote on it. may seem a bit extreme but you may as well close your eyes and see what you mark.

is that not why people under the age of 18 cant vote because we dont "trust" them to make an informed responsible decision?

What Vision? · 13-06-2008 9:55am

mcaul wrote: »

It'll be interesting if SF & Libertas will take responsibility if this proves to have negative consequences for Ireland as I expect.

I'd be interested to find out where Libertas get their funding!!!!

And the same for Sinn Féin

As far as a comissioner is concerned. I think it's a good deal. The amount of money wasted having 27 of them and staff for them aswell. Imagine having 26 goverment departments, so that each county has one. It's nuts.

That was one of the reasons I voted yes.

sink · 13-06-2008 9:56am

I think Europe got a good hard kick in balls yesterday and is now laying on it's side drifting in the ocean , who knows where the currents are going to take it? No one as far as I can see.

ninebeanrows · 13-06-2008 9:57am

A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation (which obviously care oh so much for us Irish) look like defeating all the parties we trust and have voted for all our lives.

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

What Vision? · 13-06-2008 9:57am

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

That is a good question.

Three and then the Govermant decides if they can't get the people to vote. Including the Seanad, who should have a complete veto in that matter then and the president too.

Pal · 13-06-2008 9:57am

suimhneas wrote: »

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins,

nothing. we just look like wallys

suimhneas wrote: »

which i sure as hell hope it does!

already answered that one

suimhneas wrote: »

whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for? is the sky about to fall?

there's no 'A' in responsibility

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 9:57am

Call_me_al wrote: »

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

EDIT: Think i answered your question Darragh

Nope, voting is a right, not a privilage. That's where the government got it wrong here, people can vote a particular way for any reason or indeed for no reason at all, there is no responsibility either explicit or implied, that is required of a voter when they vote. What are you suggesting, that we introduce a permit system for voting, where you have to demonstrate a particular level of competency before you are giving full voting rights? Or maybe for your first five votes, your ballot paper is put into a provisional ballot box and checked for consistency and a logical decision before it is put into the actual ballot box??? Or maybe people under 30 and with a family tradition of left of cente politics should be made wear L plates while in the polling station???

seamus · 13-06-2008 9:58am

suimhneas wrote: »

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins, which i sure as hell hope it does! whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for?

Well, assuming that Libertas even bother to hang around, they'll have a lot to answer for when we lose out commissioner next year and an EU common defence policy is put in place without any treaties.

ShooterSF · 13-06-2008 9:59am

mike65 wrote: »

Galway East 25% boxes open 50/50 no

Mike.

So its 1 all to no united lol.

Oh and on the general idea of a minimum vote absoulutely agree. One thing I'm disgusted by today is lack of turn out. But then again we had people on this forum pushing the idea of abstaining, what do you do in that situation? Unfortunately its hard to tell if people are just lazy or indifferent.

RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

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