Today's Irish Times

rrpc

A bit of positive coverage in todays Irish Times folks:

Home on the firing range


Guns are usually associated with criminality or insurgence in Ireland, but they're also used for sport by thousands of shooters. What's the attraction? Former Army officer Tom Clonan puts the Midlands Shooting Range to the test

SPORTS SHOOTING is described by enthusiasts as the Cinderella of Irish sport - under-funded and under-appreciated. But their determination to overcome these problems showed in the standard and professionalism of marksmanship at the Midlands Shooting Range, near Tullamore, Co Offaly this week.

As a retired Army officer - and qualified weapons instructor - when I visited the range, billed "the shooting heart of Ireland", alongside scenic bogland, I was struck by the high standard of this civilian range.

Constructed to the highest of international standards - in many respects exceeding the safety standards of international military ranges - the Midlands range caters for short-range precision-pistol shooting and long-range F-class rifle and target rifle sharp-shooting.

Large, reinforced earthen berms act as back-stops or butts behind the various targets to ensure that stray bullets do not exit the range area. The grass firing points are immaculately maintained and command excellent views over small targets with classic concentric rings and bull's eyes, which are arranged in neat rows at intervals of 50 metres out to 1,000 metres. At the furthest distances, accuracy is only possible with the aid of the telescopic sights mounted on the F-class 7mm rifles.

Throughout my Army service, I always had a preference for firing automatic pistols - a choice more informed by a childhood of watching US cop shows rather than any military rationale. After some familiarisation and training at the range, I was allowed to fire a classic Les Baer .45 semi-automatic precision pistol at a range of 15 metres. With some of Ireland's leading sharpshooters as curious onlookers, I was nervous, to say the least. However, my military training began to kick in automatically - concentrating on stance, breathing, grip, heartbeat and trigger pressure.

At first attempt, I managed to place at least three rounds on to the bull's eye. I was tempted to congratulate myself until I was informed that Irish amateur competitors regularly hit the bull's eye 100 per cent of the time at ranges out to 50 metres - at which distance, the target resembles a match head. Despite this high standard, Irish sports shooting gets very little attention.

SHOOTING AS A sport in Ireland has a long and colourful history stretching back to the mid-19th century. The oldest written records of shooting competitions in Ireland relate to 1841, almost a decade before the English, Welsh and Scottish formed their national rifle associations. In the world of sports shooting, the Irish, along with the Germans, have traditionally been regarded as natural crack-shots.

By the end of the 19th century, shooting had become a popular sport in Ireland, particularly among the landed gentry and Anglo-Irish ascendancy and shooting ranges were established throughout Ireland. Such was the popularity of the sport that in 1907, The Irish Times and New York Times devoted pages of coverage to Ireland's victory in the international Home Countries shooting competition held in Britain. Ireland's claim to fame was to have beaten England on their home turf. On return to Ireland, the Home Countries trophy was carried in procession through the streets of Dublin to a civic reception.

That's just an extract. Go out and buy the paper to get the rest.

It's the least we can do for such positive coverage.

Vegeta

Thanks for the heads up rrpc

In an Olympic year I hope we see more of this.

rrpc

Vegeta wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up rrpc

In an Olympic year I hope we see more of this.

That's why I was down in Midlands on Tuesday

CJhaughey

Was Clonan doing this as a way of saying sorry after the Primetime debacle?

packas

CJhaughey wrote: »

Was Clonan doing this as a way of saying sorry after the Primetime debacle?

Could be viewed that way. But thumbs up for a really + review.

Bananaman

Great review. Very positive outlook.

Well balanced piece - good to see the distinction being made between civilian and military training.

Great to see that the Gardai got quoted as having vetted all shooters.

I do not want to put a downer on this - I'm just nit picking - In the main picture he has the firearm closed, cannot see if there is a mag in, has his finger on the trigger, no eyes, no ears and unless I'm mistaken his left thumb behind the slide.
Hope he didn't fire that :-)

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

I do not want to put a downer on this - I'm just nit picking - In the main picture he has the firearm closed, cannot see if there is a mag in, has his finger on the trigger, no eyes, no ears and unless I'm mistaken his left thumb behind the slide.
Hope he didn't fire that :-)

B'Man

No he had the hearing protection etc. while firing and was not in danger of losing his thumb. Michael Walls gave him a thorough introduction before he fired.

Didn't do too bad either seeing as he told me it was eight years since he last took a shot.

I'd rather if we didn't focus on the Prime Time debacle on this thread. It's been done to death on the other one. Rather we should look on this as very positive reporting, well informed, well written and with very good research.

It's a positive step forward.

thehair

thank god it said SPORT SHOOTING is their a e-mail for this reported so we could
sent a thank you from all SPORT SHOOTERS steve

done Email: tclonan@irish-times.ie

Vegeta

rrpc wrote: »

with very good research.

cough** 1000 metres **cough

I'm only teasing, its a positive article and I wish more of the same were being done in every media.

Well done and thank you to all involved

IRL1500

A nice, positive article. Well done to the organisers.

Bananaman, There was no ammunition in the gun at that point and the slide was forward for demonstration only! The left thumb is NOT behind the slide. Both left and right thumb are to the right side of the pistol which is the correct position for a left handed shooter.

rrpc

Email: tclonan@irish-times.ie

He'd very much appreciate it.

Sparks

Looks like an excellent job. Well done to all involved.

thehair

Sparks wrote: »

Looks like an excellent job. Well done to all involved.

AND ALL THE HARD WORK THE SHOOTING MODS DID FOR FREE:D:D:D
STEVE

thehair

i got a e-mail from mr tom clonan


Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the kind comment - I normally only get abuse!!! Enjoy the weekend,

Tom "stephen :cool:

Sparks

thehair wrote: »

AND ALL THE HARD WORK THE SHOOTING MODS DID FOR FREE:D:D:D
STEVE

Nope, this one's all down to Declan and the others.

Rovi

In light of this article, I think many of us here (myself included) at the very least owe Tom Clonan the courtesy of reconsidering our opinions of him as expressed in 'the other thread.'
I've spoken to a few of the lads over at Midland, and their opinion is that it would appear that his interview with the programme was very selectively cherrypicked and the clips as aired were taken grossly out of context, a trap into which any of us could fall in similar circumstances.

Fair play to him for writing a fair and positive article, a lesser man might have been tempted to lash back at the criticism.

Sparks

Very true.

Grizzly 45

Hmmmm... compare his statements in the article to his statements on Prime Time.... Especially about pistol shooting.He is using a 45ACP which if his "WEAPONS Instructor Training" was up to scratch .He would know is proably twice as "deadly"[due to it's size] as the dreaded 9mm.

So he now admits he is a weapons instructor.....
With a passion for automatic pistols... In that case he has ,to me ,convicted himself that in the fact he spouted an amazing amount of BS regarding them in the PT programme,which anyone with a bit of cop on dealing with them would know are patent untruths.

Oh and then he finds a reason now for the existance of rifles bigger than 308,and a ligit reason for ownership in Ireland???? The 7mm long range F class shooters??

Yes indeedy,a nice bit of slick PR..... for Clonan and some freebie advertising for Midland,nothing wrong with that part.

But this is a GYP article designed to appease us, the shooting community nothing else.
Ah sure he is all right...he wrote somthing nice about us in the paper,good publicity,good man Tom sure anyone can make an odd mistake....

Sorry DR Clonan.If this is supposed to be a apology for that disaster you willingly foisted by either by ignorance or design on the Irish shooting community... I DONT accept your apology...

Fair enough he wrote an article on the
Midland range,and some historical information.. VERY least he could do for screwing us royally on TV,and painting us as potential nutters waiting to shoot up a schoolyard.....Have we forgotton that already?????

He will have to do a Hell of alot more than a article in the IT,which consists of a fair bit of self adggrandisement and "I" in it as well .To prove to me anyway that he has been converted...

NOT forgiven ..NOT forgotten

Sparks

Grizzly, if Prime Time can chop up what we say, they can chop up what others say. From my point of view, Clonan's done this as a good faith exercise to show that he didn't agree with how we were presented on Prime Time. To write this article while there's a complaint in the BCC over the PT piece speaks volumes towards that, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Vegeta

I'm with Sparks on this one Grizz, I'd lay the blame squarely on the door step of Prime Time.

His contributions always looked edited with an agenda already in mind. Yes they were awful and probably damaging

When a man feels he has been hard done by and goes out of his way to try and give some positive PR to the sport, I for one find it hard to hold a grudge.

thehair

Sparks wrote: »

Nope, this one's all down to Declan and the others.

AND ALL SPORTS SHOOTER

Rovi wrote: »

In light of this article, I think many of us here (myself included) at the very least owe Tom Clonan the courtesy of reconsidering our opinions of him as expressed in 'the other thread.'
I've spoken to a few of the lads over at Midland, and their opinion is that it would appear that his interview with the programme was very selectively cherrypicked and the clips as aired were taken grossly out of context, a trap into which any of us could fall in similar circumstances.
+1
Fair play to him for writing a fair and positive article, a lesser man might have been tempted to lash back at the criticism.

+1

Sparks wrote: »

Grizzly, if Prime Time can chop up what we say, they can chop up what others say. From my point of view, Clonan's done this as a good faith exercise to show that he didn't agree with how we were presented on Prime Time. To write this article while there's a complaint in the BCC over the PT piece speaks volumes towards that, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

+1

Vegeta wrote: »

I'm with Sparks on this one Grizz, I'd lay the blame squarely on the door step of Prime Time.+1

His contributions always looked edited with an agenda already in mind. Yes they were awful and probably damaging

When a man feels he has been hard done by and goes out of his way to try and give some positive PR to the sport, I for one find it hard to hold a grudge.

+1
NICE TO SEE SOME GREAT NEWS STEVE:D

Bananaman

There was no ammunition in the gun at that point and the slide was forward for demonstration only! The left thumb is NOT behind the slide. Both left and right thumb are to the right side of the pistol which is the correct position for a left handed shooter.

I know well - I know there were plenty of competent range officers on hand.
I was only stirring the sh1t. Only having the craic :-)

I know well the picture was staged with a safed firearm so he could have a picture of himself with a handgun for the centrepiece of the article.
There is no way he could have done that with eye and ear protection on and still been able to tell who was in the picture.

As to Grizzlys point. I know we do not want to dwell on the topic in this thread but I believe that this article goes a long way to put Dr. Clonan back in the good books. His previous outing into the world of sports shooting reporting will no doubt haunt him for a while but this is a VERY good article.

Considering that WE - the shooters - are not the intended audience but the same great unwashed who saw the prime time thingy.
In that light it is an extremely good article, it gives those people a bit of background into the history of the sport, the history of the licensing, the current stringent security, the relatively low numbers of firearms in the country. All explaining to them that this is a well run, organised and garda sanctioned enterprise.
It then evokes a bit of pride in the fact that we have some of the best competitors in the world - using Micko Walls as an example.

Anyone who may have been left with a sense of fear or dread after the prime time article will, after reading this, have a better sense of the fact that shooting sports are nothing to be afraid of and in fact are quite accessible and , sure you know, maybe give the local range a ring and see what's possible.

B'Man

Grizzly 45

Thing is Sparks,
You said volumes already by saying that this is a good faith , or I would say an appeasement attempt while there is a complaint[5] in with the BCC. Doesnt that say somthing already????????
If he is factually correct as PT asserts about us and shooting in general in Ireland.Surely the BCC will vindicate him outright????

2] I dont buy for ONE instant that PT chopped out everything positive that Dr Clonan might have said about shooting and just left negative coments in there.
3] I dont like people who blow hot and cold on an issue,who have public influence,or set themselves up as "experts" then when the going gets rough turn around and try an appease the opposite side,by playing to their weaknesses.
I would have more respect for the man if he had stayed sthumm and waited the outcome of the BCC,than trying a pretty underhanded tactic like this.He threw us an article,and we are all now falling all over ourselves congratulating him on being such a decent ,nice,terribly misunderstood chap,that was edited out in the programme????

BULL SH"T!! Have you people all forgotten what the man lectures in????
He is a professor in MEDIA STUDIES!!!! He knows how to use,work,play and influence the Media.It's his daily bread for Heavens sake!!! So to say that he was edited out and wouldnt know what the segment was going to be is for me at least a total impossibility to swallow.He knew damn well what to say and not to say and how it would come out on TV.Also as he is the precived expert on all things military and firearms inthe irish media..Isnt it in his best intrest that this possible embarassment is quickly dealt with???After all he is getting paid to voice his knowledge in the media,so he cant be seen to be wrong.

He is playing us like a fiddle.
Whats the betting now that the BCC will recive a report saying,ahh but the public boards cant be that set against him,he must know what he was talking about as everyone congrautlated him on an article about shooting in Ireland??
By God we sell ourselves cheap!!

Grizzly 45

Veg,
If he feels "hard done by" and that this was all a big mistake.I am sure Dr Clonan would and could be accomadated on this board to give his side of the story??After all,PT did read up on this board,and must have reported back to him what sort of astorm was coming his way.
And I WOULD like to hear his side of the story,lest I am judging him wrong.
But why dont I think this will be not forthcoming???

G17

Sparks wrote: »

so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Me too. I think the editing was squarely at fault. I actually feel bad that many of the BCC complaints and posts here (mine too) referenced Tom directly. I have been the subject of a T.V. show and hundreds of hours are whittled down to make 30mins, they always pick the juicy bits, and if everyone got to see the final cut there would never be a T.V. show made. I'm not blowing hot or cold on the issue, my complaint to the BCC still stands and is pending. BUT and it's a BIG HUGE BUT, Tom was cut to pieces (by me too);I give out stink when I disagree with something and I also give praise when it's due. I do now think that he was unfairly portrayed in the Prime Time report.

I'm delighted with the article and have bought the paper (I often do, so doesn't really count). I've been texted by several people this morning telling me about an article in the paper and I often sigh hearing this, waiting to read another negative article relating to Sporting Shooting, I will email to thank him for the article (thanks RRPC).

cavan shooter

I did my bit

to the editor

As a shooter it is good that a positive light can be shed on a legitimate sport, all too often there is a negetive spin to "Hype" the facts and make news. A good example being the recent prime time report and most recently the Sunday Buisness Post article. I look forward to reading more balanced and informative articles on the sport of shooting, particulalry with the Olymics and world championships not too far away.

However, I note that these letters don't get printed that often:mad:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thing is Sparks,
You said volumes already by saying that this is a good faith , or I would say an appeasement attempt while there is a complaint[5] in with the BCC. Doesnt that say somthing already????????

It would if he worked for Prime Time, but not only does he not, if you read RTE's response to the BCC complaint, he's been hung out to dry by RTE. And my complaint was against Prime Time.

2] I dont buy for ONE instant that PT chopped out everything positive that Dr Clonan might have said about shooting and just left negative coments in there.

That may be, but given the circumstances in which this article was written, and the timing of it (which strongly supports our case against Prime Time), it's a very potent good faith gesture, and it should be enough for us to at least give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. It doesn't stop the BCC complaint (in fact it undermines Prime Time's position). It does leave open the possibility that we could see sporting coverage in the Times in the future (and they've always been the hardest nut to crack on the PR side - and in case anyone's missed it, now's the time for PROs to be approaching Malachy...). It's a lot we've just been given, it'd be churlish to ignore that, even if we're not fully convinced yet.

rrpc

I had hoped that the other media outing would be kept off this thread. However seeing as it has been raised, I'd just like to point out that aired film can never be put back in the can nor printed media unprinted.

In view of that I would be more concerned with righting wrongs and correcting errors than dwelling in the past and railing against past injustices.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I am sure Dr Clonan would and could be accomadated on this board to give his side of the story?

Yes, he would be, as would the Prime Time editors. Even if the mods had to take it in shifts to enforce the "be civil" rule

G17

rrpc wrote: »

Email: tclonan@irish-times.ie

He'd very much appreciate it.

Done, gladly.

Grizzly 45

Sparks,
Where exactly do you see that PT left him out to dry???As far as I see PT in the last page stated "that they had no reason to doubt his competance."
True,he doesnt work for PT,BUT he is a quoted expert by the Irish media.It is the same as setting yourself up as an expert witness in a field ,and giving evidence in a court of law.There are plenty of times such witnesses have been found out to be well below average in their fields of knowledge.Pity is;there is no one else here in Ireland in the media view that could give a counter view.

Leopards dont change their spots.And I dont belive that this was a road to Damascus conversion.You have to ask yourself at least WHY now???
As I said,let Dr Clonan come on here and present his case.He has every right to do so and as I said I would welcome it if he did.
I'm sorry I'm deffo from that famous state in the USA on this one.

RR
Indeed print cant be retracted or the film re shot,and the damage they have done could still be down the road. I dont see any errors that WE need to correct or any wrongs WE need to put right,or any apologies WE need to issue.As a matter of fact WE are the ones who have the gripes.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, he would be, as would the Prime Time editors. Even if the mods had to take it in shifts to enforce the "be civil" rule

Ohhhhhhh dont worry yourself on that point Sparks....I'll be civil,verry civil.Would suggest wearing Artic mitts tho when typing,and Artic kit when reading:D

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sparks,
Where exactly do you see that PT left him out to dry???As far as I see PT in the last page stated "that they had no reason to doubt his competance."

Yup, that's the spot. Because now when we show that the technical details in the report were wrong, RTE just says "Oh, we already said we relied on Clonan's technical expertise, how were we to know it was wrong?".

cavan shooter

Guys, it was a positive article compared to the last couple of news items and I think thats what counts. RRPC is right when he said what was printed was printed and what was aired was aired.

Focus on the positive:)

G17

cavan shooter wrote: »

Focus on the positive:)

It's Friday, tomorrow, we go shooting!! WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Johnathon Swift

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

2] I dont buy for ONE instant that PT chopped out everything positive that Dr Clonan might have said about shooting and just left negative coments in there.
3] I dont like people who blow hot and cold on an issue,who have public influence,or set themselves up as "experts" then when the going gets rough turn around and try an appease the opposite side,by playing to their weaknesses.
I would have more respect for the man if he had stayed sthumm and waited the outcome of the BCC,than trying a pretty underhanded tactic like this.He threw us an article,and we are all now falling all over ourselves congratulating him on being such a decent ,nice,terribly misunderstood chap,that was edited out in the programme????

Grizzly 45, for once I agree with you

Vegeta

Johnathon Swift wrote: »

Grizzly 45, for once I agree with you

lol

meathstevie

Personally I can only see one reason why Tom Clonan wrote this article and that's an attempt to rectify what was broadcast by RTE.

Especially making the point that there are justified reasons for civilian possession of high powered full bore rifles and full bore pistols and emphasising the high level marksmanship and stringent safety precautions makes me think that this is a genuine attempt at putting the record straight.

As for RTE sticking by the point that they deem Mr. Clonan's expertise sufficient for them to rely on is a very handy position indeed. Edit a few answers to questions about potential risks and capabilities of certain ammunition out of context and pass the hot spud to the expert when the booboo hits the prop.

I don't know if any of you do but I clearly remember Mr Clonan's coverage of the Beslan school siege on the Pat Kenny show as events were unfolding and except the grief and anger I felt as a father I can clearly recall a man who was delivering very clear comments and not in the least about the sort of armaments and their completely unsuitable nature for the job at hand used by the security forces there. At that moment I was very positively surprised about his level of competence on such matters so I could hardly believe that the same man would be spouting such scaremongering about highly monitored and regulated possession of sporting arms in Ireland.

Suffice to say that his article goes a long way towards putting the record straight and the fact that it was published in a quality newspaper with his name under it, hereby assuming full responsibility for it's content, only adds to this.

patbundy

meathstevie wrote: »

Personally I can only see one reason why Tom Clonan wrote this article and that's an attempt to rectify what was broadcast by RTE.


i agree stevie


Suffice to say that his article goes a long way towards putting the record straight and the fact that it was published in a quality newspaper with his name under it, hereby assuming full responsibility for it's content, only adds to this.

im afraid stevie its only a start on a very long road to be (as grizzly said) forgiven. in my books the media couldnt give two sh*ts about us. dont worry lads given half a chance clonan will put the boot in again.
btw welldone to the midlands

rrpc

patbundy wrote: »

im afraid stevie its only a start on a very long road to be (as grizzly said) forgiven. in my books the media couldnt give two sh*ts about us. dont worry lads given half a chance clonan will put the boot in again.
btw welldone to the midlands

You might bear in mind that Midlands hosted this press briefing in the full knowledge of what happened the last time and were prepared to put it behind them.

Something we should all be capable of I think.

meathstevie

Plain and simple, give the media half a chance to put guns, havoc and mayhem in one sentence they will. Tabloids sell and the station gets viewers. Remember the bullshet that went on when Willy O'Dea posed with a pistol owned by his department.

Especially for this reason I think Tom Clonan's article is genuine. It would have been so much easier to do nothing and stick to the original line out there. Specificly so for the simple reason that a lot of non-firearms savvy people go completely bananas when you mention guns, be it legal or illegal ones.

Even when PT cobbled their program together they wouldn't have had an ounce of trouble finding a score of Supers stating that they have no problem at all approving the overwhelming majority of firearms applications.

patbundy

rrpc,it might be easy for some but i personally dont like to be connected to dunblane,do you?

patbundy

rrpc i do mean welldone to the midlands and the lads

thehair

patbundy wrote: »

rrpc,it might be easy for some but i personally dont like to be connected to dunblane,do you?

+ 1steve i agree pat dunbland no thank you

thehair

patbundy wrote: »

im afraid stevie its only a start on a very long road to be (as grizzly said) forgiven. in my books the media couldnt give two sh*ts about us. dont worry lads given half a chance clonan will put the boot in again.
btw welldone to the midlands

pat think:eek:Focus on the positive;)steve

Grizzly 45

Personally I can only see one reason why Tom Clonan wrote this article and that's an attempt to rectify what was broadcast by RTE.

Considering that the man works as a media advisor,teaches media studies,and features regurlarly on our TV screens and radio.I cant belive that he would not know what kind of pitfalls and double talk the media could pull on such a topic,and that anything remotely sensationalist would not be aired??Go on outta tha!

Especially making the point that there are justified reasons for civilian possession of high powered full bore rifles and full bore pistols and emphasising the high level marksmanship and stringent safety precautions makes me think that this is a genuine attempt at putting the record straight.

And three weeks before he is predicting dire consequences of mere civillians owning such firearms on the national airwaves?? Which is it?We are safe and okay or we are nutters ready to take out a schoolyard??
Would it not be better to say."say listen about that PT programme,a lot of what I said was edited and taken out of context,and I am sorry if ti looked like I implied that the Irish gunowner is a dangerous person.

As for RTE sticking by the point that they deem Mr. Clonan's expertise sufficient for them to rely on is a very handy position indeed. Edit a few answers to questions about potential risks and capabilities of certain ammunition out of context and pass the hot spud to the expert when the booboo hits the prop.

Doesnt get them off the hook though.By admitting that and passinjg the hot spud to the Doc,all he has to do is state that he was quoted out of context and the questions were such and such.

I don't know if any of you do but I clearly remember Mr Clonan's coverage of the Beslan school siege on the Pat Kenny show as events were unfolding and except the grief and anger I felt as a father I can clearly recall a man who was delivering very clear comments and not in the least about the sort of armaments and their completely unsuitable nature for the job at hand used by the security forces there

I do,and also on the unsuitability of surplus NBC equipment being of no use to civillians in the event of an anthrax scare.
That the US Army would be thrown out out of Iraq within 12 months after deposing Saddam by gureilla action,and that the Iraquis would fight to the last man for Iraq in the face of the invasion,or words to that effect,and somthing on the ERU being highlly trained after shooting two people in a post office van robbery in Dublin.
So he was out on the ground at Beslan as well??And was clued up by Russian FSU Alpha teams and SPETNATZ on their tactics??Trouble was russia [1] hasnt the experiance yet of having news crews and media scrutiny their actions[2] they never really had seige situations to deal with under the old Soviet regime,where they could be simply hushed up or simply be blown to bits with a tank squadron.Ergo they would handle that as a military situation rather than a police situation.[3]Russia doesn't buy,up to very recently Western style LE equipment or at that time have any training or much of it from Western LE agencies on siege handling.Nor do they paticullarly want it.They have a different outlook on these things there.Somthing the good Doc should have mentioned.

. At that moment I was very positively surprised about his level of competence on such matters so I could hardly believe that the same man would be spouting such scaremongering about highly monitored and regulated possession of sporting arms in Ireland.

I'm not. considering that we all posted what we knew about him and googled him and found out about him,and the consensus was back last weeks ago was he didnt know a buttsock from a barrel .I had a look at the interview again,and far from looking like a man who is put out,he looks like a man who doesnt know how to answer the questions as he is lacking the revelant knowledge to them.

Suffice to say that his article goes a long way towards putting the record straight and the fact that it was published in a quality newspaper with his name under it, hereby assuming full responsibility for it's content, only adds to this.

After being edited,spellchecked,and all the other processes legal and otherwise an article goes thru in a newspaper,before it is sold.What exactly is he risking in responsibility???And how is he setting the record straight???All he is saying is I had a jolly nice day shooting with the good people in the Midland range.And what a fine setup it is there.And did you know Ireland has a fine shooting tradition going back to the 1800s,plus these shooting chaps are really nice people,so we should be abit nicer to them???

Folks if that is setting the record straight,and you are all happy and all forgiving just because the man who wittingly or un wittingly brands us a bunch of dangerous people who shouldnt have anything more leathl than a feather duster on our national airwaves writes an article in a IMO highbrow,liberal leftish styled newspaper,and three weeks ago we were almost going to plant him and the PT crew out on Midlands range in front of the targets..It doesnt say very much for us for our sense of ,morality steadfastness and willingness to fight our corner.It is actually very HYPROCRITICAL and two faced of us.
I would compare it to a domestic violence scene.Where we the injured party hear."Sorry darling ,didnt mean it,wont do it again,heres a bunch of garage fore court flowers and a box of Cadbury Roses for when your jaw is unwired again!"Thats what this feels like to me.:mad:

Sorry ,it's going to take a Hell of a lot more than that to sort out my feelings,than the figuative box of Roses& flowers. My answer would be "Darling ...FK you!See you in divorce court"

Grizzly 45

Remember the bullshet that went on when Willy O'Dea posed with a pistol owned by his department.

Uh Huh..and remember the big hue and cry here about it here???
As well as the hue and cry about the pic on the cover of the Irish Shooters Digest of April 2008?????
And here we have saftey infractions on the range or a posed pic, with saftey infractions and it is all right?????? a bit of a laugh actually here :eek::eek::eek: WTF????
Oh sorry..I gettit Willie O Dea and the ISD didnt write a butter us up article in the Irish Times,after screwing us on the airwaves with their media pals in a hatchet job.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

meathstevie

Grizzly, the point I'm trying to make is that it's very easy to stir a lot of emotive billocks when firearms are the issue and that it's very easy for an expert or a so called expert for all I care to jump on that bandwagon and in the meantime doing untold damage to the position of the sports shooter and hunter.

If someone, his level of expertise aside, thinks he has made that mistake and tries to row back on it I for one I'm quite happy with that.

Personally I stated the belief that Mr. Clonan's expertise lies in the field of military armaments and use of such a lot more than in the field of civilian target shooting and hunting and I still believe this to be a fact. Having said that I still believe the IT article to be a genuine attempt at trying to make ammends with the shooting community and I am very inclined to accept it as such.

thehair

meathstevie wrote: »

Grizzly, the point I'm trying to make is that it's very easy to stir a lot of emotive billocks when firearms are the issue and that it's very easy for an expert or a so called expert for all I care to jump on that bandwagon and in the meantime doing untold damage to the position of the sports shooter and hunter.

If someone, his level of expertise aside, thinks he has made that mistake and tries to row back on it I for one I'm quite happy with that.

Personally I stated the belief that Mr. Clonan's expertise lies in the field of military armaments and use of such a lot more than in the field of civilian target shooting and hunting and I still believe this to be a fact. Having said that I still believe the IT article to be a genuine attempt at trying to make ammends with the shooting community and I am very inclined to accept it as such.

+ 1 steve:cool:

Grizzly 45

meathstevie wrote: »

Grizzly, the point I'm trying to make is that it's very easy to stir a lot of emotive billocks when firearms are the issue and that it's very easy for an expert or a so called expert for all I care to jump on that bandwagon and in the meantime doing untold damage to the position of the sports shooter and hunter.

Agree 100% with you

If someone, his level of expertise aside, thinks he has made that mistake and tries to row back on it I for one I'm quite happy with that.

Fine no problem with that either...But ADMIT publicaly to it then!!The way it is now it just looks so dead suss!! Here is a man who is trained in the media ways,who was slating us a month ago,now "apologising"in the most oddest ways known to man,with a bunch of BCC complaints hanging over him as well.But it seems to me he cant admit publicly that he is wrong as it would be detrimental to his career.

Personally I stated the belief that Mr. Clonan's expertise lies in the field of military armaments and use of such a lot more than in the field of civilian target shooting and hunting and I still believe this to be a fact.

Agree 100% too

Having said that I still believe the IT article to be a genuine attempt at trying to make ammends with the shooting community and I am very inclined to accept it as such]

WHY doesn't he just say that then??He has had over three weeks to defend his position either here in Boards,in response to any of Sparks letters in the print media or wherever?It's not as if he is isolated in Siberia,and even there one will have access nowadays to some form of mod comms?I'll accept it possibly too if I have some explanations from him as to why the things he said,and he MUST have known they could be used out of context,why did he say them then if he is such a fan of pistols,and he is now as well a mere civillian,then to say he loves pistol shooting in his IT article makes no sense at all.So is he now saying that only Ex mil types are only qualified to shoot pistol?The whole thing makes no sense.If he felt hard done by RTE in this segment,wouldnt you think he would say sod off to them as well publicly??And lodge a complaint with the BCC as well,for being mis repersented?
If I didnt belive in them I would swear there was a conspiricy theory going on here.:eek:
BTW I am not picking faults with your arguement or personal opinion.I just thought you brought up some good points.

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Considering that the man works as a media advisor,teaches media studies,and features regurlarly on our TV screens and radio.I cant belive that he would not know what kind of pitfalls and double talk the media could pull on such a topic,and that anything remotely sensationalist would not be aired??Go on outta tha!




And three weeks before he is predicting dire consequences of mere civillians owning such firearms on the national airwaves?? Which is it?We are safe and okay or we are nutters ready to take out a schoolyard??
Would it not be better to say."say listen about that PT programme,a lot of what I said was edited and taken out of context,and I am sorry if ti looked like I implied that the Irish gunowner is a dangerous person.


Doesnt get them off the hook though.By admitting that and passinjg the hot spud to the Doc,all he has to do is state that he was quoted out of context and the questions were such and such.



I do,and also on the unsuitability of surplus NBC equipment being of no use to civillians in the event of an anthrax scare.
That the US Army would be thrown out out of Iraq within 12 months after deposing Saddam by gureilla action,and that the Iraquis would fight to the last man for Iraq in the face of the invasion,or words to that effect,and somthing on the ERU being highlly trained after shooting two people in a post office van robbery in Dublin.
So he was out on the ground at Beslan as well??And was clued up by Russian FSU Alpha teams and SPETNATZ on their tactics??Trouble was russia [1] hasnt the experiance yet of having news crews and media scrutiny their actions[2] they never really had seige situations to deal with under the old Soviet regime,where they could be simply hushed up or simply be blown to bits with a tank squadron.Ergo they would handle that as a military situation rather than a police situation.[3]Russia doesn't buy,up to very recently Western style LE equipment or at that time have any training or much of it from Western LE agencies on siege handling.Nor do they paticullarly want it.They have a different outlook on these things there.Somthing the good Doc should have mentioned.



I'm not. considering that we all posted what we knew about him and googled him and found out about him,and the consensus was back last weeks ago was he didnt know a buttsock from a barrel .I had a look at the interview again,and far from looking like a man who is put out,he looks like a man who doesnt know how to answer the questions as he is lacking the revelant knowledge to them.




After being edited,spellchecked,and all the other processes legal and otherwise an article goes thru in a newspaper,before it is sold.What exactly is he risking in responsibility???And how is he setting the record straight???All he is saying is I had a jolly nice day shooting with the good people in the Midland range.And what a fine setup it is there.And did you know Ireland has a fine shooting tradition going back to the 1800s,plus these shooting chaps are really nice people,so we should be abit nicer to them???

Folks if that is setting the record straight,and you are all happy and all forgiving just because the man who wittingly or un wittingly brands us a bunch of dangerous people who shouldnt have anything more leathl than a feather duster on our national airwaves writes an article in a IMO highbrow,liberal leftish styled newspaper,and three weeks ago we were almost going to plant him and the PT crew out on Midlands range in front of the targets..It doesnt say very much for us for our sense of ,morality steadfastness and willingness to fight our corner.It is actually very HYPROCRITICAL and two faced of us.
I would compare it to a domestic violence scene.Where we the injured party hear."Sorry darling ,didnt mean it,wont do it again,heres a bunch of garage fore court flowers and a box of Cadbury Roses for when your jaw is unwired again!"Thats what this feels like to me.:mad:

Sorry ,it's going to take a Hell of a lot more than that to sort out my feelings,than the figuative box of Roses& flowers. My answer would be "Darling ...FK you!See you in divorce court"

+1

I agree 100%.

Well said !