Gay books in primary schools

faceman

Ok my title is a bit tabloid but this is AH!

On the news this morning they were talking about one of the "learn together" schools (i think thats what its called) where school books about homosexuality are being introduced to kids as young as five. Book titles include, King and King, Three to Tango, The Sissy Ducking (the latter being a re-tell of the Ugly Duckling except he's now gay)

So whats your view on this? Is it too young? Is it too much?

Alot of heated callers on the radio with some mad views either way.
I dont have a major issue with it par se, however i believe in primary schools that the focus should be on teaching kids about relationships with family units to avoid prejudices as children develop. I havent seen or read the books myself, but i would hope that the books are in those vain, rather than specifically focus on homosexuality.

i.e. the agenda should be around family units (be they hetro or same sex), diversity and acceptance rather than "hey everyone, we're gay, yahoo!".

One of the books is about 2 gay penguins in a new york zoo who fall in love. This book disturbs me the most cos penguins dont do gay and whats wrong with the zoo in phoenix park instead???

Sherifu

The world is slowly going mad. Poor kids.

Dave!

Yeah I agree with the OP, it should be about encouraging the family unit more so than anything

I guess if the books have the effect of normalising homosexuality, then it's a good thing.

The schools are 'educate together', BTW

marco_polo

** Slowly backs out of controversial thread **

Seriously though I think the major issue is whos ideas is was to use penguin books to educate our children

mike65

Sadly I think there will be very few "Save our kids from this filfth!" type headlines cos we're all PC now.

I have no problem with this sort of thing - the issue is tolerance not turning straight kids gay.

Mike.

Wook

**** being PC, i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated.
Once they get a mind and opinion of their own , yeah sure be my guest to 'educate' them.

Dord

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah I agree with the OP, it should be about encouraging the family unit more so than anything

I agree, then again the family unit is changing. But I don't think this is the right way to do it.

Wook wrote: »

**** being PC, i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated.
Once they get a mind and opinion of their own , yeah sure be my guest to 'educate' them.

If they're gay, they're gay. Someone telling them a story in school isn't going to change that.

Aurora Borealis

Proposed books sound crap tbh but see it as a good thing to introduce kids to the idea of homosexuality. It's normal and being educated and aware can only be a plus.

Rob_l

Op there was two gay penguins in new york zoo but thankfully one of them stopped going through that phase and has now met a lovely female penguin with whom he can have penguin babies

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169653,00.html

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I blame "Queer eye for the straight guy"!

super_furry

faceman wrote: »

One of the books is about 2 gay penguins in a new york zoo who fall in love. This book disturbs me the most cos penguins dont do gay and whats wrong with the zoo in phoenix park instead???

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1275591.html

The Bollox

political correctness strikes again.

I think the Crab People are behind this. they are trying to make us so f*cking retarded with the whole "everyone must get along" that they will overpower us with their inferior strength because we will be too afaid to resist incase it's not PC.

I for one welcome our new Crab People overlords

Wook

Dord wrote: »

If they're gay, they're gay. Someone telling them a story in school isn't going to change that.

you saying that all gay people are born this way?

JangoFett

Wook wrote: »

**** being PC, i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated.
Once they get a mind and opinion of their own , yeah sure be my guest to 'educate' them.

Bigot. You are a small minded moron, I hope you never procreate. And I'm a straight man saying this. Its 2008 you retard, get with the times

Homosexuality is normal, people have been gay since there have been people and there are gay animals.

I agree that kids should have these kind of stories along with stories featuring straight couples, it teaches them that its normal, teaches, and as much as I hate this word in this context, tolerance.

marco_polo

Nothing anybody does will make straight people gay or gay people straight.

super_furry

marco_polo wrote: »

Nothing anybody does will make straight people gay or gay people straight.

What about paying them lots of money? €1million for every year of straightness. You can pay the gay away!

Wook

JangoFett wrote: »

Bigot. You are a small minded moron, I hope you never procreate. And I'm a straight man saying this. Its 2008 you retard, get with the times

Homosexuality is normal, people have been gay since there have been people and there are gay animals.

I agree that kids should have these kind of stories along with stories featuring straight couples, it teaches them that its normal, teaches, and as much as I hate this word in this context, tolerance.

did i say it was abnormal? did i say i did not tolerate Gay's? i just said i dont wont my kid to be one.

RealEstateKing

**** being PC, i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated.
Once they get a mind and opinion of their own , yeah sure be my guest to 'educate' them.

You cannot 'educate' a kid to be gay no matter how hard you try you fool. Its an inate feeling that has got absolutely nothing to do with how you are brought up.

That said, I think books given to kids in school should reflect the norm to some extent: 90% of couples are straight after all, so the books given to kids should largley reflect this.

DarkJager

http://www.thebestpageinexistence.com/annandbarry.htm

That is all

Rob_l

JangoFett wrote: »

Homosexuality is normal, people have been gay since there have been people and there are gay animals.

If thats the case why the **** do we need to educate children about it if its a normal natural thing then it will come about normally and naturally without educating five year olds about it.

daisy123

I have the book "And Three Makes Tango" and it is wonderful! It is primarily just a picture book, with a story about two penguins, Roy and Silo, who raise a baby penguin. At no point are terms such as 'gay' mentioned, just at one point when the zookeeper sees them making a nest he comments 'They must be in love'. Roy and Silo then go on to raise an orphan baby chick.

I read it to my 6 year old nephew and he loved the story. He knows what gay is, and has no problem with it, especially as in this story it is just about another type of family. Surely we want children educated that being gay is a normal part of life, just like when I was growing up we were taught there are all sorts of families, ones with single parents for example.

It is disgraceful that this can be considered a controversy in Ireland.

Golferx

JangoFett wrote: »

...................

Homosexuality is normal,..................

Normal? For a male to be sexually attracted to a male? Or a female to be attracted to a female?

Normal is not the word. It is a deviation from normal.

Accepted, it may be, but as a fact of nature it is not "normal".


As for the OP? I think it is a ridiculous idea to introduce such a subject to young kids.

marco_polo

Rob_l wrote: »

If thats the case why the **** do we need to educate children about it if its a normal natural thing then it will come about normally and naturally without educating five year olds about it.

So they are teaching them to be gay now, jesus this story gets better and better? :rolleyes:

biko

faceman wrote: »

Ok my title is a bit tabloid but this is AH!

On the news this morning they were talking about one of the "learn together" schools (i think thats what its called) where school books about homosexuality are being introduced to kids as young as five. Book titles include, King and King, Three to Tango, The Sissy Ducking (the latter being a re-tell of the Ugly Duckling except he's now gay)

So whats your view on this? Is it too young? Is it too much?

It's fine. They get to read a little bit about same sex relationships so what? Hopefully they'll learn not to be so damn repressed about the whole concept of sex.

JangoFett

Wook wrote: »

did i say it was abnormal? did i say i did not tolerate Gay's? i just said i dont wont my kid to be one.

When you said this

"i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated."

Why won't it be tolerated exactly? What will you do to show your lack of tolerance?

And why wouldn't you want your child to be gay, what impact has it on your life exactly?

Wook

JangoFett wrote: »

When you said this

"i dont want my kid to be Gay and anything that makes it feel normal at that age will not be tolerated."

Why won't it be tolerated exactly? What will you do to show your lack of tolerance?

And why wouldn't you want your child to be gay, what impact has it on your life exactly?

anything wrong with wanting my kid to be straight, have a family and have kids? If he grows up to be Gay, well that's the way its going to be we adjust but untill then as i said when he can make his own mind up, i pass on those educations.

Dord

Wook wrote: »

you saying that all gay people are born this way?

Not necessarily all, no. :rolleyes:

togster

Some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids tbh

Wook

Dord wrote: »

Not necessarily all, no. :rolleyes:

Thank you :rolleyes:

Reku

While I think it's great that they encourage kids to be more open minded about other peoples' skin colour, creed, sexual orientation, etc... I think this is almost as bad as the whole "Ba-ba-rainbow sheep" lark. There's being open minded and there's being plain daft. What 5 year old even really understands what it is to be straight let alone what it is to be gay.
And if they are going to introduce this stuff surely it should have human characters rather than beating around the bush with animal characters or is being PC just something to hide behind while we flinch away from the issue as much as possible.
Do you remember part of the moral of the ugly duckling being that he/she went off and married a female/male swan? Thought it ended with it realising it was a swan and not just a particularly ugly duckling? It could have gone off and married a pig after that for all we care it's not pertinant to the story and its moral. So where does sexuality/gender or such stuff come into that story that it needs to be changed like this?

daisy123

Wook: When children about age 5 read "normal" books, do you think that wants to make them go out and have heterosexual sex??? Seriously!

Reading books at an early age about same sex couples, something like "Tango" that is not up in your face gay, can only lead to a more tolerance of homosexuals later on in life.

In my mind, this issue is similar as saying you don't want your children reading books about black people, about Jewish people, about Chinese people, back in the day when people thought they were 'different' and 'bad'.

Rob_l

marco_polo wrote: »

So they are teaching them to be gay now, jesus this story gets better and better? :rolleyes:

ok good conclusion, wrong, but carry on:rolleyes:

Why is there a need to teach them about same sex relationships most children dont really come from same sex relationships now do they so why confuse the little brats with family situations they dont need to understand.

I dont think your teaching them to be gay anymore than your teaching them to be straight either way, I just think it is political correctness carrying on its stupid move into all areas of life

super_furry

We should stop kids from reading fairy tales as this leads them to the occult and encourages Satanism.

Wook

daisy123 wrote: »

can only lead to a more tolerance of homosexuals later on in life.
.

no problems with that whatsoever, in my personal opinion that age is not the way any school should address this.

RealEstateKing

If thats the case why the **** do we need to educate children about it if its a normal natural thing then it will come about normally and naturally without educating five year olds about it.

Yeah, but for centuries our culture has been teaching people that, not only is homosexual not normal, it is EVIL and WRONG and will send you to HELL.

Hardly surprising that the balance needs to be tipped a little bit now that we've reached more enlightened times.

Reku

DarkJager wrote: »

http://www.thebestpageinexistence.com/annandbarry.htm

That is all

Oh dear god! ROFLMAO!:D



A lot of kids are not in families where the parents are married these days, so where are the kiddy books about Jane the single mother, or John the lone father, so those in the typical families don't judge them?

Wook

RealEstateKing wrote: »

Yeah, but for centuries our culture has been teaching people that, not only is homosexual not normal, it is EVIL and WRONG and will send you to HELL.

Hardly surprising that the balance needs to be tipped a little bit now that we've reached more enlightened times.

your not saying this is an act of revenge are you ?

Miguel_Sanchez

Somebody better get The Mayo Echo onto this soon. They'll sort it out.

gazzer

They were talking about this on Newstalk earlier on and a woman rang up with this little gem of information..... Apparantly the majority of paedophile priests that abuse kids are gay.. She was told this by a friend of hers that is a priest. So obviously that is true then. When challanged on this and asked about the amount of female children that were abused she said that that was different.

I think its good that these books are out there. One of the books is a variation on the ugly duckling. In this the duck is a bit camp and gets teased about it. Kids learning that because somebody is different (be it gay, different nationality etc) that it doenst mean they should be teased about it is surely a good thing?

daisy123

farohar wrote: »

Oh dear god! ROFLMAO!:D



A lot of kids are not in families where the parents are married these days, so where are the kiddy books about Jane the single mother, or John the lone father, so those in the typical families don't judge them?

I don't have any examples to hand, but I definitely remember as a child reading books about how families are all different, some have two parents, some only have one, some children live with their grandparents, some live with foster parents etc. It's not that hard to find them. Why not add, and some children live with two mammies and some with two daddies. While not common here in Ireland yet, it will be eventually, so why not prepare now?

Terry

Oh Jesus. Jesus Christ.

JangoFett wrote: »

Bigot. You are a small minded moron, I hope you never procreate. And I'm a straight man saying this. Its 2008 you retard, get with the times

Homosexuality is normal, people have been gay since there have been people and there are gay animals.

I agree that kids should have these kind of stories along with stories featuring straight couples, it teaches them that its normal, teaches, and as much as I hate this word in this context, tolerance.

Banned.

RealEstateKing wrote: »

You cannot 'educate' a kid to be gay no matter how hard you try you fool. Its an inate feeling that has got absolutely nothing to do with how you are brought up.

That said, I think books given to kids in school should reflect the norm to some extent: 90% of couples are straight after all, so the books given to kids should largley reflect this.

Infracted.

daisy123 wrote: »

Wook: When children about age 5 read "normal" books, do you think that wants to make them go out and have heterosexual sex??? Seriously!

Reading books at an early age about same sex couples, something like "Tango" that is not up in your face gay, can only lead to a more tolerance of homosexuals later on in life.

In my mind, this issue is similar as saying you don't want your children reading books about black people, about Jewish people, about Chinese people, back in the day when people thought they were 'different' and 'bad'.

Black, Jewish and Chinese people have nothing to do with sexuality.

Children of five should not be introduced to this sort of thing in school.
It is up to their parents to teach them the difference between right and wrong.
When schools begin interfering, we are entering big brother territory and that is not good. It may also send out mixed messages to the kids and just confuse them even further on the matter.

A simple word from their parents should suffice. Something along the lines of "Billy has two daddies because sometimes two men like to live together. Now go and wash your hands before dinner."

RealEstateKing

your not saying this is an act of revenge are you ?

No. Its an act of historical redress: For centuries we have had a culture based on a book written between 3000 and 2000 years ago by some semi-literate Judean sheep-herders.

Now that we are beginning to emerge from this and learn to think for ourselves, it is hardly surprising that the balance tips the other way: People have to shout a little louder about enlightened ideas as there are 2000 years of boneheaded unreason to be heard above.

daisy123

A quick search in Amazon has brought up a few of those "single parent" books that farohar was looking for:

When Mama gets home

Do I have a Daddy?

for example

marco_polo

Rob_l wrote: »

ok good conclusion, wrong, but carry on:rolleyes:

Why is there a need to teach them about same sex relationships most children dont really come from same sex relationships now do they so why confuse the little brats with family situations they dont need to understand.

I dont think your teaching them to be gay anymore than your teaching them to be straight either way, I just think it is political correctness carrying on its stupid move into all areas of life

You orignal post read slightly differently to me first time around, apologies if I misread it.

I happen to agree that it is too young to be starting teaching kids about relationships, because at that age they won't understand iut fully and certainly won't care in any case. So while the whole excercise may be pointless it is not in any way damaging to kids.

Terry

daisy123 wrote: »

I don't have any examples to hand, but I definitely remember as a child reading books about how families are all different, some have two parents, some only have one, some children live with their grandparents, some live with foster parents etc. It's not that hard to find them. Why not add, and some children live with two mammies and some with two daddies. While not common here in Ireland yet, it will be eventually, so why not prepare now?

The original ugly duckling book didn't really work.

daisy123

Terry, I know they have nothing to do with sexuality, but neither do these books!!!! They are just picture books that happen to have a same sex couple in them!! That is my point.

This shouldn't be made a big deal of, just let the books coexist with other books. Children can read them or not, the art work in "Tango" is great! And if they have questions they will ask. At 5/6 they haven't developed the whole "I'm too afraid to ask mammy about something" thing and will ask questions like, "Why does Tango the baby penguin have two daddies?" It's not a big deal. Just like they may ask, "why does the girl in my class wear a scarf on her head?" or "why doesn't that boy have a daddy?" We should promote openess in children, that is the only way that tolerance can be brought about.

diamondgeezer

What is it with you lot. Can you not look a bit deeper and analyse the real issues.

This si about population reduction and the further destruction of moral values.

They want people "gay" these days to control the birth rate and cause societal problems.

Did anyone see the film "Goldfish Memory" last friday. Same thing everyone in it was gay. It is social conditioning.

As for all the "new" men/women out there who believe this is a sign of "progress" or "enlightenment", well done, you have been had by your own conditioning.

monkeyfudge

Dord wrote: »

I agree, then again the family unit is changing. But I don't think this is the right way to do it.

Yep. All the books are still all about 'mammy' and 'daddy' and the kids get exercises like 'write what your daddy does for a living' which must make the kids with a father who is either dead or has run away from their responsibility feel like crap.

daisy123

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Yep. All the books are still all about 'mammy' and 'daddy' and the kids get exercises like 'write what your daddy does for a living' which must make the kids with a father who is either dead or has run away from their responsibility feel like crap.

Bravo MonkeyFudge!!!

The following review is from one of these "gay" books, "The Different Dragon"

Written by psychologist Jennifer Bryan and beautifully illustrated by animal lover and knitting wizard Danamarie Hosler, The Different Dragon is a softcover picturebook intended for children ages 3-8, about a boy who learns a lesson about character and expectations during storytime. When young Noah gets ready for bed, he wants to hear a bedtime story with a sailboat in it, as well as his beloved cat Diva, and best of all, a fierce and ferocious dragon! But as the story progresses, Noah feels that the dragon is crying, because the dragon just can't be terrifying anymore. "It's a lot of pressure to be fierce all the time. All that roaring and gnashing of teeth and snorting fire. It's a lot of work to scare people and be so mean. And nobody ever wants a dragon to be funny or sad or just regular. There's only one way for a dragon to be and that's that." Noah befriends the dragon, and shows him that he can do other things than be fierce and terrible - like play badminton or share ice cream. The Different Dragon is published by Two Lives Publishing, the only publisher of children's books expressly intended for kids in LGBT families; and so it happens that young Noah has two mothers, one who helps him get ready for bed (though he needs only a little help) and Go-Ma, who invents the tale about The Different Dragon along with him. Noah's family (consisting of two mothers, a younger sister, two cats, a gerbil, and some fish) are presented as simply a normal part of his life, and not the central focus of the tale. A soft-stated yet groundbreaking picturebook.

I just used this to illustrate my point that the same sex parents in these books, are not always the main focus, so why shouldn't they be allowed?!

diamondgeezer

monkeyfudge wrote: »

and the kids get exercises like 'write what your daddy does for a living' .

Yeah, this is preparing them for their future as "grasses". Read 1984, where the children are conditioned to tout on any "anti government" actions. That is why religion has been attacked, from now on the state is your master, not GOD.

It is all conditioning.

diamondgeezer

JangoFett wrote: »

Bigot. You are a small minded moron,.

And you are a new "modern" accept anything pleb.