new puppy

mkdon05

Hey guys,

We have a new cavalier king charles puppy (Missy) and she's a dote. Im wondering about puppy pads? We leave her in the kitchen at night and put a puppy pad down. She had a wee on the floor and on the pad, but poo'd on the floor too. We are trying to leave her on her own overnight and not go down to her when she is crying. Should we be getting up before she starts crying and wake her up and bring her out to the garden?(We dont have a crate)

Any advice?

Discostuy

Hey
Shes a beaut. How old is she?. Toilet training can be tough at the start, i tried the pads with my two but they found it was more fun to tear them to shreds.
I just started with newspaper at the back door and made sure to bring them to it everytime i sensed they needed to go:
First thing in the morning, altho when they are very young they dont have the bladders to hold it all night.
After drinking a lot of water,
after eating
after playing
every 20 minutes just to be safe is when to watch them haha.

Make sure when she goes on the pad or out the back to praise and praise and give treats. She needs to know toilet out the back = treats and praise.

I dont know about king charles but i'd imagine most dogs are the same where by they dont want to poo in their own area. My two seemed to pick this up fairly quick without me doing anything and after the first week would only poo at the far end of the garden.

As for the crying, well i think you just have to be tough at the start and ignore her until she falls asleep. Acknowledgeing her at all will only make it worse. Tell her its bedtime, give her a treat and leave it at that

Dogs like routine too, so if you can get to her around the same time each morning to let her out to the toilet she will soon learn this routine.
But as i said, it might be a while before her bladder is big enough to hold a nights worth of wee, so be patient, eventually it will happen.

Thats my view anywho

Zorba

mkdon05 wrote: »

Hey guys,

We have a new cavalier king charles puppy (Missy) and she's a dote. Im wondering about puppy pads? We leave her in the kitchen at night and put a puppy pad down. She had a wee on the floor and on the pad, but poo'd on the floor too. We are trying to leave her on her own overnight and not go down to her when she is crying. Should we be getting up before she starts crying and wake her up and bring her out to the garden?(We dont have a crate)

Any advice?

Firstly she seriously is one cute little puppy !

Is she crying just cos she's lonely or cos she wants to go out to pee and such, personally i'd say it's cos she's lonely and if u keep going down she'll keep crying. Never had a crate myself but what we done was anytime our black lab done anything in the house we'd grab her by the scruff of the next and put her out in the grass she soon learned where she could do and couldn't do her business. But leaving her in the kitchen over night we put papers down, obviously she couldn't hold it in all night and she more or less did her business on the paper until she got to the stage where she could hold it in all night which was heaven, no more cleaning up dog poo and pee first thing in the morning !!

Just one word of warning though about keeping puppies in the kitchen over night, they like to chew, i've had the ends of wine bottles chewed, bits of the kitchen cabinets, chairs she even used to pull the blinds down !! Oh she used to tear the paper up too now i think of it ! So might be better if u can get her some little cage where she can't do too much damage.

Zorba

Discostuy wrote: »

Hey
Shes a beaut. How old is she?. Toilet training can be tough at the start, i tried the pads with my two but they found it was more fun to tear them to shreds.
I just started with newspaper at the back door and made sure to bring them to it everytime i sensed they needed to go:
First thing in the morning, altho when they are very young they dont have the bladders to hold it all night.
After drinking a lot of water,
after eating
after playing
every 20 minutes just to be safe is when to watch them haha.

Make sure when she goes on the pad or out the back to praise and praise and give treats. She needs to know toilet out the back = treats and praise.

I dont know about king charles but i'd imagine most dogs are the same where by they dont want to poo in their own area. My two seemed to pick this up fairly quick without me doing anything and after the first week would only poo at the far end of the garden.

As for the crying, well i think you just have to be tough at the start and ignore her until she falls asleep. Acknowledgeing her at all will only make it worse. Tell her its bedtime, give her a treat and leave it at that

Dogs like routine too, so if you can get to her around the same time each morning to let her out to the toilet she will soon learn this routine.
But as i said, it might be a while before her bladder is big enough to hold a nights worth of wee, so be patient, eventually it will happen.

Thats my view anywho

My one craps all over the garden anyway i could teach her to do it in one area ?

mkdon05

cheers for the reply, she is 8 weeks old on thursday.
Its a tough oul job trainin her but she is still very young so hopefully just get her into a routine to get her used to going outside. Maybe i'll get up 3.30am and bring her out to empty her bladder.

I think she may be crying cos she is missing her litter, cos she was crying after goin to the toilet on the kitchen floor.

She has been quite good so far on the chewing issue, we gave her an old slipper and the inside of a toilet roll to chew on.

stevoman

okay heres a few tips i have for toilet traininga and a crying puppy.

first of all if its a crying puppy she is lonely for her mother and litter. to stop this go down to your local nick nack shop and buy a ticking clock. put this in bed with the pup and this will immitate her the mothers heart beat and make life a whole lot more comfortable for the pup.

second is toilet training in the house. when you get up in the moring and the pup has gone toilet on the floor, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee. keep at this and it will deter her eventually from going in the house. make sure to tell her sternley that she cant do this in the house. and if you catch her in the act give her a big loud NO! this isnt cruel at all and makes the pup realise that she is at the bottom of the family pack as thats how dogs think. make sure the fist thing she is taught is the word no before anytjing else. if you do this you will have a very well mannered little puppy.

Discostuy

Hey Zorba

Have to agree about the relief of coming into the kitchen to find no wee's...i'll never underestimate the joy of a house trained dog again...

To be honest im not sure about the pooing in one place thing...it was just something my two took upon themselves to do. Once i keep the area clean they tend to go back to the same spot at the back of the garden.
Im not complaining though haha....

Glowing

stevoman wrote: »

second is toilet training in the house. when you get up in the moring and the pup has gone toilet on the floor, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee. keep at this and it will deter her eventually from going in the house.

This has to be the worst advice I've ever heard. Rubbing your pups nose in her urine is not going to teach her anything FFS! How is she going to know that means she can't go inside? :mad: Disciplining her will only work if you actually catch her IN the act of peeing - not after, or before .......

She needs to be encouraged to go outside - and praised when she does. bring her out after every meal and once an hour. At her age, accidents inside are going to be expected, and nothing to do with behaviour, just the size of her bladder.

Discostuy

mkdon05 wrote: »

cheers for the reply, she is 8 weeks old on thursday.
Its a tough oul job trainin her but she is still very young so hopefully just get her into a routine to get her used to going outside. Maybe i'll get up 3.30am and bring her out to empty her bladder.

I think she may be crying cos she is missing her litter, cos she was crying after goin to the toilet on the kitchen floor.

She has been quite good so far on the chewing issue, we gave her an old slipper and the inside of a toilet roll to chew on.

Toilet training can be tough and requires a lot of patience...but stick with it, its totally great in the end to have a house trained dog...Some people say getting up to let her out will help...i never tried this, i just found as the dog grows it eventually was able to hold all night...a nights undisturbed sleep was worth cleaning the floor in the morning for me...

Most pups will cry at night for the first while, but if you react to this it will lead to worse things...she has to learn that you will leave but that you will also come back...if you give into her cries at all, she will soon relate this to attention, and before you know it, you wont be able to go to the loo without her whinging...all dogs love company, she just wants to be near her master. But its important to set ground rules at the start so she knows that you wont be around her 24-7...when she gets this, she will develop into a relaxed confident dog.

MsFifers

stevoman wrote: »

, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee. QUOTE]

This is outdated advice and most importantly doesn't work. My friend with a King Charles puppy got frustrated with the toilet training and tried the "putting their nose in it" approach - it just made the puppy more stressed and she still had her little accidents in the house.

They went back to just bringing her outside frequently and praising her when she went in the garden, and it worked eventually. Its just something that takes a bit of time and patience.

They also got her one of those pillows you can gently warm in the microwave - it settled her at night and she would snuggle into it and sleep without crying.

stevoman

Glowing wrote: »

This has to be the worst advice I've ever heard. Rubbing your pups nose in her urine is not going to teach her anything FFS! How is she going to know that means she can't go inside? :mad: Disciplining her will only work if you actually catch her IN the act of peeing - not after, or before .......

She needs to be encouraged to go outside - and praised when she does. bring her out after every meal and once an hour. At her age, accidents inside are going to be expected, and nothing to do with behaviour, just the size of her bladder.

Ok you dont have to be so sensational about it if you dont agree with me. I used this appraoch with my pup and it workes just fine. Im just offering advice to the OP. She can take it or leave it as far as im concerned. The reason why i gave the advice is because i found it worked perfect...

Glowing

stevoman wrote: »

Ok you dont have to be so sensational about it if you dont agree with me. I used this appraoch with my pup and it workes just fine. Im just offering advice to the OP. She can take it or leave it as far as im concerned. The reason why i gave the advice is because i found it worked perfect...

It's not just a case of me disagreeing with you, it's an old-fashioned, cruel and unnecessary form of 'training'. I'm sure others will back me up on this.

There are much nicer (proven!) ways of doing this that won't stress out and confuse your already stressed out pup.

Noopti

when you get up in the moring and the pup has gone toilet on the floor, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee

Yep, cruel and outdated are the words to be used! But I'm not going to lambast you, as most people actually do use this method.

The other methods suggested are definitely better though and the puppy will learn a lot faster when praised for doing the right thing, then being punished for something they did an hour previously.

az2wp0sye65487

stevoman wrote: »

second is toilet training in the house. when you get up in the moring and the pup has gone toilet on the floor, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee. keep at this and it will deter her eventually from going in the house.

Are you seroius??

Have a read:

http://www.squidoo.com/dog_toilet_training
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_animal_abuse_if_you_rub_a_dog's_nose_in_their_own_waste_to_potty_train_them
http://specials.uk.msn.com/purinaone/dog/trainyourdog.aspx

A dog can't associate an accident that may have happened hours ago to punishment they are receiving there and then. The don't think "oh no, I shouldn't have p***ed here, now look whats happening" all they think is "Why are you rubbing my nose in the p**s when I was sitting here being good?"

The only way to give out to them for p***ing in the house is to catch them in the act and a loud "No!" while clappng your hands once or twice - this will soon deter them.

When we had our second puppy we got him used to pooing out the back, so even when we'd bring him out for walks he wouldn't go; but he would be dying to get home, pulling at the lead when we were near the house and crying/yelping. As soon as we got home he'd run straight out the back for his poo!! He'd be holding it the whole time thinking he could only poo in the back garden! - little weirdo!:D

~Thalia~

At not even 8 weeks old the poor pet is missing his litter mates and his Mum. No breeder should give you a pup that young.

Anyways, that being said you have him now and unfortunately you can't just leve him in thekitchen with a puppy pad over night and expect him to use it. He will as someone else said probably get more fun out of tearing it to pieces

While is is this young you will have to get up and take him outside up to 4 times during the night. This is the joy of owning a pup You could also crate train him? We crate trained our doggie and she loves her crate now. You still have to get up to them though during the night and ya it's a pain but it's only for a while and once they are totally trained and grown up they will sleep the whole night through.

PLEASE don't take the sticking his nose in it advice.

Zorba

Discostuy wrote: »

Hey Zorba

Have to agree about the relief of coming into the kitchen to find no wee's...i'll never underestimate the joy of a house trained dog again...

To be honest im not sure about the pooing in one place thing...it was just something my two took upon themselves to do. Once i keep the area clean they tend to go back to the same spot at the back of the garden.
Im not complaining though haha....

Lucky u, come to think of it mine does her business in a certain area but in hindsight it's not the area i'd prefer her to do it in !! Still it's better than in the house.

Have to agree with it being cruel putting the pups noise near his/her pee or poo cos as one poster said they've no connection with it. When i was training mine i kept an eye on her the whole time and once i caught her doing it i put her out straight away it's the only way they make the connection, have to remember they're short term memories aren't that good ! Also as someone else said praising them and maybe even giving them a treat when they do it outside helps speed up the learning process.

Intothesea

Hello there. The 'danger-times' given by
Discostuy are what I'd use to shape waking
-hours behaviour (and with treats and praise
as well). You can expect an 8-week old pup to
'hold it' for about 2 or 3 hours max overnight.
By the time she reaches 5 months this will be
4 or 5 hours safe and will need one trip outside
at night. I'd agree with Glowing that rubbing
the pup's nose in it is not a great way to go
when you're building a relationship with a
youngster. Another trick is to use a certain
phrase as the pup is 'going' -- later on you
will be able to request toilet activities, which
can save a lot of waiting around Good luck

Whispered

stevoman wrote: »

first of all if its a crying puppy she is lonely for her mother and litter. to stop this go down to your local nick nack shop and buy a ticking clock. put this in bed with the pup and this will immitate her the mothers heart beat and make life a whole lot more comfortable for the pup.

Great Idea - and if you put a warm water bottle (not hot) wrapped in towels in there too she'll settle quicker too.

stevoman wrote: »

when you get up in the moring and the pup has gone toilet on the floor, bring the pup over and just edge its nose into the wee. keep at this and it will deter her eventually from going in the house. make sure to tell her sternley that she cant do this in the house. and if you catch her in the act give her a big loud NO!

Um.... please don't do this, I can't believe in this day and age people are still buying into this. Did your parents dip you in your own excrement when you were learning to use the toilet? Do you think it would have benefited you if they did?

stevoman wrote: »

this isnt cruel at all and makes the pup realise that she is at the bottom of the family pack as thats how dogs think. make sure the fist thing she is taught is the word no before anytjing else. if you do this you will have a very well mannered little puppy.

Yes it is cruel, and an 8 week old pup has no concept of pack hierachy. That whole pack thing doesn't really come into effect until they are older - If it ever does with domestic dogs, a lot of experts are now saying thats all a bit of cr@p. Not to mention the fact that bullying a dog does not automatically elevate you to "pack leader".

stevoman wrote: »

if you do this you will have a very well mannered little puppy.

No you will have a dog who's afraid to go to the toilet anywhere you will see it. A recipe for little pressies left in hard to reach and clean places like behind furniture etc.

merryhappy

Hey,
I have two cavaliers, I haven't really got anything to add to the advice you have already been given but if you hav any other questions you should go onto www.cavaliertalk.com, everybody on the board owns a cavalier or is thinking about getting one and they give excellent advice!
Good Luck

kerrysgold

A pup shouldn't even be away from it's mother until it is at least 8wks. it's actually supposed to be better to leave small breeds with their mother until about 10wks, so obviously the breeder wasn't reputable but you've got her now so a bit late for that.
ignore the putting her nose in it rubbish, dogs need to be praised or reprimanded a few seconds after they do something, if the dog has done something in the middle of the night and say 4 hrs later you come in and punish it, the dog won't have a clue why you are punishing it and may even become afraid of you. dog's don't like being bullied or unfairly treated any more than people do. unless you catch the dog in the act, don't do anything to reprimand the dog. (and a reprimand would not be hitting the dog or putting her nose in her mess, it would be something like a firm NO and give her lots of praise when she does something outside, dogs are smart, she will catch on soon)

valz_walsh

For my puppy it was all about praising, and a slap if she peed in doors. If your puppy goes to the loo in front of you indoors then give her a little slap. And when she goes tot he loo out side when praise her. Eventually she realise that in doors bad out doors good.

Dont scole the puppy 10 minutes after they've gone to the loo in doors that just confuses them. Scold them when their caught in the act or not at all.

They have very small bladders so as soon as she's finished eating then take her outside, and its the same thing first thing in the morning. They cannt control their bladders if they get excited until they get older.

The ticking clock with the hot water bottle is a great idea. I used that on my own puppy and it worked a treat.

Toulouse

Do not slap your dog. If your puppy goes to the loo in front of you indoors then I suggest you give yourself a little slap, you weren't watching her closely enough. There is absolutely no need to scold the dog, just teach them where to go and they'll go. If you slap a dog who goes in front of you she'll just learn to go somewhere you can't see her.

Watch out for the pups tells, whining, circling etc and take her out, do the same after a meal, play or sleep. Give lots and lots of praise when she goes outside. If she goes inside it's your own fault. Toilet training is not always easy and it doesn't happen overnight so don't expect it to. There's no easy way except to be consistent.

Rubbing their noses in it and slapping them for going in front of you? Archaic.

Whispered

valz_walsh wrote: »

For my puppy it was all about praising, and a slap if she peed in doors. If your puppy goes to the loo in front of you indoors then give her a little slap.

valz_walsh wrote: »

They have very small bladders so as soon as she's finished eating then take her outside, and its the same thing first thing in the morning. They cannt control their bladders if they get excited until they get older.

Sharpshooter

Toulouse wrote: »

Do not slap your dog. If your puppy goes to the loo in front of you indoors then I suggest you give yourself a little slap, you weren't watching her closely enough. There is absolutely no need to scold the dog, just teach them where to go and they'll go. If you slap a dog who goes in front of you she'll just learn to go somewhere you can't see her.

Watch out for the pups tells, whining, circling etc and take her out, do the same after a meal, play or sleep. Give lots and lots of praise when she goes outside. If she goes inside it's your own fault. Toilet training is not always easy and it doesn't happen overnight so don't expect it to. There's no easy way except to be consistent.

Rubbing their noses in it and slapping them for going in front of you? Archaic.

Absolutely agree with this.
Try leaving as many pads or newspapers as you can on the floor.Then say 3 times a week move them away about an inch at a time,she wont realise you are doing this and will eventually walk right to the back door(as she will follow the papers.
A tip for if you catch her going on your carpet,
Keep a bottle of white vinegar near and sprinkle the area as quick as you can.This will neutralise the smell and stop her from using that spot again,just dab with kitchen towel (bounty works best).
good luck with Missy.:)

peasant

mkdon05 wrote: »

Hey guys,

We have a new cavalier king charles puppy (Missy) and she's a dote. Im wondering about puppy pads? We leave her in the kitchen at night and put a puppy pad down. She had a wee on the floor and on the pad, but poo'd on the floor too. We are trying to leave her on her own overnight and not go down to her when she is crying. Should we be getting up before she starts crying and wake her up and bring her out to the garden?(We dont have a crate)

Any advice?

The pup is "brandnew" and very young. This means two things: It's just been separated from the only world (mother and siblings) it ever new, so it's scared and confused ...and it leaks

The best way to train a pup as young as this is for night time continence is to put it into a high cardboard box (one that can't climb out of) and let it sleep in this by the side of your bed.

This has two advantages
1) you can put your hand into the box every now and then, re-assure the pup and let it get used to you / bond with you

2) you will wake up when then pup tries to get out of the box to do its business, so you can grab it and run outside and do the usual praise routine once it has sucessfully relieved itself outside.

Once the pup (and you ) has slept through several nights in a row without having to go out, it is time to find new sleeping arrangements.


Trying to house train a pup with pee pads or newspapers is pants ...because these are still inside and the name of the game is to teach pup to do its business outside.

Paper/pads may make your live easier when it comes to cleaning up ...but they prolong the learning process unecessarily.

Sharpshooter

peasant wrote: »

The pup is "brandnew" and very young. This means two things: It's just been separated from the only world (mother and siblings) it ever new, so it's scared and confused ...and it leaks

The best way to train a pup as young as this is for night time continence is to put it into a high cardboard box (one that can't climb out of) and let it sleep in this by the side of your bed.

This has two advantages
1) you can put your hand into the box every now and then, re-assure the pup and let it get used to you / bond with you

2) you will wake up when then pup tries to get out of the box to do its business, so you can grab it and run outside and do the usual praise routine once it has sucessfully relieved itself outside.

Once the pup (and you ) has slept through several nights in a row without having to go out, it is time to find new sleeping arrangements.


Trying to house train a pup with pee pads or newspapers is pants ...because these are still inside and the name of the game is to teach pup to do its business outside.

Paper/pads may make your live easier when it comes to cleaning up ...but they prolong the learning process unecessarily.

Maybey its different for some dogs,our Pom was 9 weeks when we got her and l used the method l posted here (gradually moving the paper or pads)She is now 5 months and goes straight to the back door to be let out as l took the paper away.:rolleyes:

peasant

sharpshooterH wrote: »

Maybey its different for some dogs,our Pom was 9 weeks when we got her and l used the method l posted here (gradually moving the paper or pads)She is now 5 months and goes straight to the back door to be let out as l took the paper away.:rolleyes:

The one and only pup we ever got was 12 weeks old, kept by the side of the bed at night and within one week slept through the night and within another week there weren't any daytime accidents anymore either.

No newspaper in sight anywhere

With a pup of 8 weeks it might not be quite as quick as that ...but it shouldn't take 5 months either

Sharpshooter

peasant wrote: »

The one and only pup we ever got was 12 weeks old, kept by the side of the bed at night and within one week slept through the night and within another week there weren't any daytime accidents anymore either.

No newspaper in sight anywhere

With a pup of 8 weeks it might not be quite as quick as that ...but it shouldn't take 5 months either

She is 5 months old,we only have her 3 months,and would prefere to keep her out of the bedrooms as habits can be hard to break.:D

Toulouse

I wouldn't bother with the pads/newspaper either. You're only making more work for yourself. Start as you mean to go on and teach the dog that outside is the only place to go.

Whispered

Must admit that when I had the 3 pups I used paper. Mainly because they tended to go at different times, so to bring them out, I would have been up all night

Then I decided to try crating them. I found crate training fabulous for toilet training. I'd bring them out from about 10.30 to 11pm to play around the back yard and go to the toilet. Then into their crate with a blanket over the front. I'd get back up at about 5.30 to bring them out again. They only once dirtied the crate and started going into it for their daytime naps too. They loved it. It was their little house My cats were jealous.:D

If I didn't have the crate on standby at home, I would probably use paper again TBH, while it's important to teach a pup to go outside - it's more important (for me) to teach them that once the lights go out and I leave the room, I wont be back down until the morning I love my sleep.

Although in saying that a know an adult dog, who still goes indoors on paper.

mkdon05

Thanks for all the replies, she is doing quite well on the toilet front and only a few accidents but improving non the less (I've also began to spot when she is about to go, so a little training of myself in there too:D)

on a side note, she sometimes shakes a bit?? I know its normal when she is asleep but when she is awake its happening too??
any ideas??