Ireland vs Australia- Sat 11am

suppafly

Incredibly frustrated after that match. Had all the possession but didn't do to much. WTF was with all the tap and go peno's. There was at least 3 of them, 2 that were in front or near the posts. 6 points thrown away. No using the head at all a few players. Kearney although he had a pretty game i think he was defo at fault for the first try. Tiquiri just brushed him off like nothing. went way to high.

Aside from the mistakes we made we were playing some decent stuff but the ref was so f***ing bad. it was a joke. He was incredibly inconsistent. He was letting the aussies lie all over the ball and slow it down and penalised ireland. also the time we almost completely drove AU off the ball in a scrum the ref blew it up cuz he said there was no binding, then mins later the aussies do the same and nothing. The run that BOD had when u threw the shockingly bad pass inside, then the aussie player held onto the ball on the line, and the ref was right beside it staring at it and said nothing!! wtf like.



also on a side note i noticed over the 2 tests that the stadiums had large amounts of spare seats. Whats thats about. for 2 supposedly rugby mad country they can't even fill a stadium to watch their national team!?!?

[Jackass]

Yeah I think through lack of options Best has cemented the No.2 jersery. Although Jackman should be given another shot after people went insane when our line-out didn't function in the 2 games or so he started and now we've seen Flannery put in 2 worse performances and Best put in decent, but not amazing performances, Jackman won Leinsters player of the season this year and the lineout was one of the focal points of the team all year, and there's no doubt Jackman is great around the lose also, so I think he should get another shot but at the moment Best would have to be first choice No.2.

As for the scrum, it was terrible!! It was as much oz disrupting as anything else, but I dont recall one solid scrum that we got clean ball from.

The bottom line is, Horan is a good player, and for Munster he's not going to play against full international props week in week out so he can do a job, but for Ireland, against the front rows of the quality of NZ, OZ, Argentina, even six nations, he just doesn't have the power for international scruammaging, it's as simple as that, it's why we've tried Buckley on his weaker side in the Irish scrum, but that hasn't really worked.

And Hayes is decent again, but at this stage he is too old and there's no real point on keeping him starting all the time imo...if we're going to look towards building then I think Buckley needs to be starting and players like Healy will need to come into the squad over the next season to give them a game and see how they get on. Although I may have the same concerns for Healy as I would have with Horan when it comes to playing top international packs.

il gatto

Not clinical enough in the opponents 22. Had to take points from 2 or 3 more chances. Ref was poor. Few close calls all seemed to go Australia's way and a few frankly strange decisions.
Lineout was only marginally better, probably only because the roof was closed.
Wallabies defence was immense. Overall I thought we were the best team, just not sharp enough to take the chances and close it out.
O'Connell was good, Buckley made a difference when he came on. Bowe was good. Leamy was fantastic. Paddy Wallace almost made a howler, but I think he's made a case for imclusion at center again. His defence was generally o.k. and is an attacking threat in the center that we haven't had for a while.

A-Train

No excuses lineout was terrible today, little things just were not happening for us and plus the ref was shocking....

marco_polo

The set pieces were terrible today. I think the lineout problems run much deeper that just throwing tbh, so I wouldn't just blame Flannery throwing.

The last link of the EOS era, O'Donnovan is gone as forwards coach after this game too, he seemed to run out of ideas about two years ago. Hopefully the new forwards coach will be able to get us back on track.

RugbyFanatic

Ok my $0.02

Kearney put in a world class display. At 22 he was unbelievable and has been by far our best player this tour. Under his current form I do not think its over the top to say that he would walk into any team. He was magnificent.

Heaslip showed why he should be in the team, excellent support play, good ball carrying, aggressive at the break down, good hands played great in my eyes.

Leamy solid as usual. Superb ball carying, made the hard hits and yards, great support.

I thought Stringer was good when he was playing, better than Reddan anyways though Reddan made one or two good breaks I felt we kind of slowed when he came on

Bowe was very good in my eyes, great jinks and breaks thought he was by far the better winger

Horgan was more or less non existant and I will hold up my hands (As I argued for his inclusion last week after the NZ game) and say that Murphy or Dempsey are probably more deserving to start.

Horan - much improved game it has to be said

O'Connoll had in my eyes a terrible game. He knocked on repeatedly, the line outs was an absolute shambles (for which he has to take responsibility) he got turned over so many times I lost count! I honestly feel that Cullen when he comes back should get a chance in the next tests

Jennings looked good when he was on, nice off loads and hands shame that he got injured you could see how disappointed he was.

O'Gara passed well, did all his duties as an outhalf, all in all a good game

Flannery was terrible I thought when he came on. Instantly knocked it on and his throwing was disgraceful whatever about the poor lineout crooked throws are just unacceptable in my eyes



Brian O'Driscoll - It's clear he needs a well deserved break he is completely overtrained and exhausted. We are destroying him by continually starting him when its clear to everyone since 2 years ago that he needs to rest and get something done about his harmstring. It's sad to say this but I feel this could be the end of O'Driscoll.



Why did we lose? Simply because of basic mistakes, we lost so much possession in turn overs and poor lineouts.

Our backline looked good whenever it got the ball though and it was nice to see us use them again. In my eyes its our strongest strength.

il gatto

Kearey was immense. Should be considered first choice for the Lions on this form. I think O'Connell's knock ons were in part bad refing and some poor passes he tried to collect.
Overall, I'm much happier now than after the 6N. The backs made mistakes but weren't as clueless as a few months back. They've stopped standing flat and making Hail Mary passes and taking man and ball. A bit more concentration and some luck and we would've won.
Scrum is still a big worry, although I thought the Aussies got away with murder. They crouched late and then pre-empted the engagement by a full second nearly every time and the ref didn't penalise them. Some strange decisions on the binding too. I think a better ref would've made the Irish scrum look alot better.

irishbucsfan

[Jackass] wrote: »

Although Jackman should be given another shot after people went insane when our line-out didn't function in the 2 games or so he started and now we've seen Flannery put in 2 worse performances and Best put in decent, but not amazing performances, Jackman won Leinsters player of the season this year and the lineout was one of the focal points of the team all year, and there's no doubt Jackman is great around the lose also, so I think he should get another shot but at the moment Best would have to be first choice No.2.

Jackman is almost past his sell-by date just playing for Leinster. The style he plays makes him a great runner with the ball, but in every single game he goes down with neck injuries. He wont play for Ireland again, (wouldve been nice to have yet another Newbridge guy in the team, but it won't happen)

I dont understand how you can call for Jackman's inclusion and then say:

[Jackass] wrote: »

And Hayes is decent again, but at this stage he is too old and there's no real point on keeping him starting all the time imo...

irishbucsfan

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Ok my $0.02

Kearney put in a world class display. At 22 he was unbelievable and has been by far our best player this tour. Under his current form I do not think its over the top to say that he would walk into any team. He was magnificent.

:pac::pac:

Slight overreaction I would say... He does have the odd shocker...

conman78

Firstly to concur with before that the REF was Yhite!

Anyway, Stringer with quick tap before half time was appaling decision for an experienced player. Trying to prove too much that he has a running game.

Flannery's quick tap was because he was afriad to make a balls of the lineout if ROG kicked to touch. Overall a fake blood injury to get Best back on would have been good thinking. An overall shocker and then for his just desserts got smashed by Tuqiri in last minute. His around the park hasnt returned after his long lay offs unfortunately and Jackman should prob be playing second fiddle.

Reddan's quick tap made 15 metres and he did well, however we could have kicked to be within 3 with 10 mins to go had Stringer's quick tap been kicked.

First try Horgan broke his line if you see it again allowing the pass and clear run for Tuqiri at Kearney, only time you should do that is on a 50/50 defensive decision 5m from your line. If Kearney went low, offload would have been twice as easy, cant fault him at all. Offload was just sublime in fairness. Great game for the 22 year old.

As POC said after, game was there for the taking. Basics costing us time after time!

dc69

suppafly wrote: »

also on a side note i noticed over the 2 tests that the stadiums had large amounts of spare seats. Whats thats about. for 2 supposedly rugby mad country they can't even fill a stadium to watch their national team!?!?

They arent there because they are protesting at henry being re hired.

eoin2nc

Ye I must say the ref was shocking, well IMO.Kearney was class and Heaslip was everywhere.

If the lineout had just functioned, took a few penalties instead of quick tapping and took one of the wasted chances we could have won comfortably.

The Aussies only had two real good attacks, and they got their tries through them

irishbucsfan

conman78 wrote: »

First try Horgan broke his line if you see it again allowing the pass and clear run for Tuqiri at Kearney, only time you should do that is on a 50/50 defensive decision 5m from your line. If Kearney went low, offload would have been twice as easy, cant fault him at all. Offload was just sublime in fairness. Great game for the 22 year old.

I didnt see that the first time, but looking back through that seems to be spot on. Good spot.

Xavi6

Happy with the win, good for the confidence of the new lads. Tuqiri was excellent, first time I've been able to say that in a while.

dc69

Xavi6 wrote: »

Happy with the win, good for the confidence of the new lads. Tuqiri was excellent, first time I've been able to say that in a while.

Are you not Irish?

Xavi6

dc69 wrote: »

Are you not Irish?

Australian born, grew up in Ireland, living in Australia again. Usually my loyalties are divided but I'd support Australia more in rugby.

dc69

Xavi6 wrote: »

Australian born, grew up in Ireland, living in Australia again. Usually my loyalties are divided but I'd support Australia more in rugby.

Gloryhunter:D

Stev_o

Man looks like its goodbye to being a side that had hopes of beating the Big 3. Its strange to note that for the two test matches both side capped new players yet we failed to cap ever one player. Things are looking desperate for the future and it ll get worse with the Ireland A vs Saxons game tonight =(

The best player we have is Kearney, had a great game bar some bad decision making but he's suited to this level he's really keeping this team afloat. Alot of players need to look at themselves after this tour and figure out where they stand alot of the team look like journeymen now =(

irishbucsfan

Stev_o wrote: »

Man looks like its goodbye to being a side that had hopes of beating the Big 3. Its strange to note that for the two test matches both side capped new players yet we failed to cap ever one player. Things are looking desperate for the future and it ll get worse with the Ireland A vs Saxons game tonight =(

You were obviously watching a different match to me. We could have easilly beaten them had a few refereeing decisions gone our way. In fact Id say if we'd won two or three more lineouts in good positions we would have won comfortably. Or if O'Driscoll's pass had gone to hand.

Im in the middle of watching the match again and I can tell you that it definitely wasnt that bad. Australia did very little with the ball, they looked amazing for the second try but apart from that they weren't that dangerous.


And as far as capping new players goes. Who would you have capped? There is no uncapped player that is currently good enough to warrant a place in that team, so I dont see why youd be complaining

Sherifu

dc69 wrote: »

Gloryhunter:D

Picking and choosing. /shakes head

Stev_o

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You were obviously watching a different match to me. We could have easilly beaten them had a few refereeing decisions gone our way. In fact Id say if we'd won two or three more lineouts in good positions we would have won comfortably. Or if O'Driscoll's pass had gone to hand.

Im in the middle of watching the match again and I can tell you that it definitely wasnt that bad. Australia did very little with the ball, they looked amazing for the second try but apart from that they weren't that dangerous.


And as far as capping new players goes. Who would you have capped? There is no uncapped player that is currently good enough to warrant a place in that team, so I dont see why youd be complaining

You use "if" and "would have" "had" "could" though most of those things you mention SHOULD have been done accurately (bar the ref) the skills of the players out there were appalling for christ sake the level of passing was shocking with most of it going nowhere near the player and the lineouts were a mess. I

Look what we did with the possession we had, look what happened when he had huge overlaps on the wings we threw it away. Its shocking seeing it because if it was the same match played last year (Pre RWC) we would have walked away with it.

irishbucsfan

Stev_o wrote: »

You use "if" and "would have" "had" "could" though most of those things you mention SHOULD have been done accurately (bar the ref) the skills of the players out there were appalling for christ sake the level of passing was shocking with most of it going nowhere near the player and the lineouts were a mess. I

Look what we did with the possession we had, look what happened when he had huge overlaps on the wings we threw it away. Its shocking seeing it because if it was the same match played last year (Pre RWC) we would have walked away with it.

True, but things certainly arent "looking desperate for the future" like you said. As soon as we can get our back line sorted again we will start winning.

After watching the game again, Im surprised with the lack of progress we made in contact, especially after bringing on the beast that is Ferris. That was a lot of our problem, no progress in contact and no offloading against that massive defense. That is something we need to fix. Best back in the front row will be good, Flannery has played his way out of the team. Best is younger anyway, if we're lucky with player progression I think we could one day see him Healy and Buckley together in the front row... that's an interesting concept.

As far as our backs are concerned, O'Gara was fine, centers were poor (Wallace's passing was awful at times, cant believe he's a 10. O'Driscoll needs to step back for a while and consider his future in rugby, because he can't play 100% at the moment). I think Kearney is our new starting FB and with that position decided we should be better able to pick our wingers, in the future I think Bowe will take a place on one wing with maybe Fitzgerald on the other, Horgan made two or three big mistakes today which only further show why he shouldnt be in the team.


Anyways, like I said, theres no uncapped players elligible for us who should have been on this tour that aren't.

[Jackass]

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jackman is almost past his sell-by date just playing for Leinster. The style he plays makes him a great runner with the ball, but in every single game he goes down with neck injuries. He wont play for Ireland again, (wouldve been nice to have yet another Newbridge guy in the team, but it won't happen)

I dont understand how you can call for Jackman's inclusion and then say:

Well I mean Jackman is 31 afaik and Hayes is 34 or 35...Jackman has at least 2 more season in him, and also Best is quite established as it is and is quite young, so for this it is a case of trying to have your best player on the park as Jackman may make it to another world cup, but will certainly be an option for a few seasons to come.

Hayes has one more season in him. Buckley is in no way established, this is his first full season of getting his game on the fringes of Munster, and as there is such a lack of options in the Irish set up, he's on the fringes of Ireland too.

We have a player who needs to be bled in and Hayes is more or less gone anyway in a year, so as with any set up, train in the new guy while we have another option in Hayes instead of waiting for Hayes to go, then start giving Buckley his game, then he get's injured and we have no option, whereas if he gets injured while establishing himself we'll still have Hayes to come back in, or even if he's just not performing while making the step up it could take him a season or two to adapt, do it while we have another option on the bench.

duckysauce

[Jackass] wrote: »

Yeah I think through lack of options Best has cemented the No.2 jersery. Although Jackman should be given another shot after people went insane when our line-out didn't function in the 2 games or so he started and now we've seen Flannery put in 2 worse performances and Best put in decent, but not amazing performances, Jackman won Leinsters player of the season this year and the lineout was one of the focal points of the team all year, and there's no doubt Jackman is great around the lose also, so I think he should get another shot but at the moment Best would have to be first choice No.2.

As for the scrum, it was terrible!! It was as much oz disrupting as anything else, but I dont recall one solid scrum that we got clean ball from.

The bottom line is, Horan is a good player, and for Munster he's not going to play against full international props week in week out so he can do a job, but for Ireland, against the front rows of the quality of NZ, OZ, Argentina, even six nations, he just doesn't have the power for international scruammaging, it's as simple as that, it's why we've tried Buckley on his weaker side in the Irish scrum, but that hasn't really worked.

And Hayes is decent again, but at this stage he is too old and there's no real point on keeping him starting all the time imo...if we're going to look towards building then I think Buckley needs to be starting and players like Healy will need to come into the squad over the next season to give them a game and see how they get on. Although I may have the same concerns for Healy as I would have with Horan when it comes to playing top international packs.

jackman was just as bad as flannery in the six nations matchs this year doubt it if he will be back

nacho libre

O'Driscoll has lost pace, i know he never had the speed of Hickey, but three years ago he would not have needed to pass the ball to Wallace when the try line was at his mercy. it seems playing in two positions has burned him out- i can't see him playing past 30 now:(

[Jackass]

It's getting to the stage where it's like watching your wounded pet dog hobbiling around and you know it's time to get him put down, and it breaks your heart!!

No BO'D is an absolute legend and he got a lot of time off this year and he came back for a couple of camios at the end of the season to lift the trophy and fair play, well deserved.

But I said at the time and still think, he should never go on this tour, he sould have been given the rest of the time off and he would have had almost a full season off then coming into the next to give his body a rest.

It'll be interesting to see how he starts next season, but to aggrivate that hamstring is SO FU*KING annoying in a nothing match, he needed that time to rest, now who knows what will happen.

His pace is gone just because he hasn't been given an oppertunity to get back fit after any injury, he's always playing games when he's doubtful or 50/50 at some stage...Also he probably would have made the line imo, I don't think he needed to pass, that could have been a confidence thing...what a sh*t pass it was too! lol

But next season will determine if BOD should be put out to pasture or will bounce back again. I'd love to say he'll bounce back, but with the way he's being treated I don't know...I hope so...

Sherifu

BOD has been playing too much. He needs to be rested, it's clear for all to see.

dc69

As much as it pains me to say it,the guy is living off reputation and is ****ed,for want of a better word.

I think he would be best taking a year off and then going to france to play for the rest of his career and im a leinster fan.

He needs a very long rest and a fresh start.

Snickers Man

conman78 wrote: »

Flannery's quick tap was because he was afriad to make a balls of the lineout if ROG kicked to touch. Overall a fake blood injury to get Best back on would have been good thinking.

No need to make it a fake.

Just a judicious scraped boot along his forehead would be enough to send for the sponge. And the stitches.

Stev_o

Ah well it could have been worst Scotland could of beat Argentina by 15 which they didnt.......just... So unless they beat New Zealand or South Africa theres no way they can over take us in the rankings