TF2: Revenge of the Fallen - OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREAD!

brennaldo

Transformers 2: revenge of the fallen, is apperently the new name for the movie.

anyone else think its a bit cheesy. dont get me wrong, transformers in 2007 was one of my favourite films ever and i cant wait for number 2, just think the name is a bit ehh....

Crap name. Where did you see that?

monkeyfudge

It's actually Revenge of the Fallen

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1055369/

At least they've said it's a self contained film and won't just be a set up for a 3rd film.

Already started shooting too.

Doctor DooM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

It's actually Revenge of the Fallen

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1055369/

At least they've said it's a self contained film and won't just be a set up for a 3rd film.

Already started shooting too.

Looks like Jazz will be rising from the grave so...

Galvasean

SDooM wrote: »

Looks like Jazz will be rising from the grave so...

RUMORED.
They better not bring him back. Much as I liked Jazz if he's dead he should stay dead.

projectmayhem

hopefully the opening scene is starscream crashing... then we just have a film all about starscream getting revenge... or something

BlitzKrieg

RUMORED.
They better not bring him back. Much as I liked Jazz if he's dead he should stay dead.

but but but they need a black robot to have the deceptacons kill, you cant kill white soldier robots that would be bad!

corkstudent

Galvasean wrote: »

RUMORED.
They better not bring him back. Much as I liked Jazz if he's dead he should stay dead.

I disagree. I mean, why, normally, is it a bad idea to undo a Death? Because it weakens the impact deaths have.

However, Jazz's death was so poorly written and conceived and so little weight was attached to it that it not only was fairly meaningless in of itself, it cheapens every other death by giving the impression that this is how they're treated.

Death for Transformers has never been a truly final thing. Because of the existence of the Spark, it's hard to count them out. Plus, since when does tearing a TF in two destroy it? They're robots, they're somewhat modular or else they wouldn't be able to transform so easily to begin with.

They have a Maguffin in the the Allspark shard and they could actually use the death to explore Transformer "Life".

Don't rule out resurrections just for the sake of it. It's a popular thing to look at them as bad writing, but very few things are inherently bad writing, it's the actual writing of how it handles that decides that, not the concept.

Galvasean

corkstudent wrote: »

Don't rule out resurrections just for the sake of it. It's a popular thing to look at them as bad writing, but very few things are inherently bad writing, it's the actual writing of how it handles that decides that, not the concept.

I get where you're coming from but I still don't see the need.
If the Transformers are to be accepted as living characters by audiences the whole 'lets just glue him back together like Ultra Magnus (however they decide to go about it)' would be a bad angle. They'd just seem like machines that can be rebuilt, not living creatures.
In any case killing off a character, only for him to be revived in the next installment of the franchise has become so cliché and overused these days. It seems to happen in practically every sci-fi series now. Even if they come up with a reasonable and clever way to do it in Transformers 2 it will still come across as a massive kop-out.

corkstudent

If the Transformers are to be accepted as living characters by audiences the whole 'lets just glue him back together like Ultra Magnus (however they decide to go about it)' would be a bad angle. They'd just seem like machines that can be rebuilt, not living creatures.

But they already ruined that by shrugging off his death. They ARE machines, and if anything, they need to drive in the point more. Their bodies can be fixed and rebuilt. They're robots.

In any case killing off a character, only for him to be revived in the next installment of the franchise has become so cliché and overused these days.

Killing off characters for shock value is just as cliché.

Galvasean

corkstudent wrote: »

But they already ruined that by shrugging off his death. They ARE machines, and if anything, they need to drive in the point more. Their bodies can be fixed and rebuilt. They're robots.

LIVING machines. There is no comparison in real life (yet). W'ell just have to see how this situation pans out re: Jazz. Don't get too hopeful about IMDb mentioning Jazz. It's a wiki after all.

corkstudent wrote: »

Killing off characters for shock value is just as cliché.

I wouldn't call that shock value. I'd call it an attempt to make the battle more believable. It wouldn't seem all to realistic if the Decepticon forces, bred for the purpose of war couldn't manage one kill between them.

BlitzKrieg

can i just make the argument that the resurrection of Jazz would be a bad idea because he sucked as a character in the first film (for all 3 lines), and only with some truely gifted writing would he not suck in the sequel.

brennaldo

Deleted User wrote: »

Crap name. Where did you see that?

yeah just go to imdb.com and type transformers 2

Galvasean

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

can i just make the argument that the resurrection of Jazz would be a bad idea because he sucked as a character in the first film (for all 3 lines), and only with some truely gifted writing would he not suck in the sequel.

Old school fans might get a kick out of seeing Jazz back. I'm sure everyone else would wonder why they bothered. Not worth the pay off if you ask me. Maybe later a more well developed character might be killed and the impact would be significantly lessened, "Ah sure they can just fix him like they did that other guy".

faceman

I dont swallow the whole jazz will be back theory. Revenge of Fallen is more likely in reference to the Decepticons. The Jazz of the movie was a boring character best suited to 1980's kids movies. Didnt like him.

Soundwave has been confirmed to make an appearance according to producers.
Still no confirmation on Dinobots or Constructicons.

A Calls sheet was leaked and there was mention of "arcee motorcycles" on it. Read into that what you want!

brennaldo

faceman wrote: »

Soundwave has been confirmed to make an appearance according to producers.
Still no confirmation on Dinobots or Constructicons.

soundwave would be a quality addition to transformers 2

Galvasean

Rumour Control:

- Soundwave has NOT been confirmed. The producers in question said they would consider including him after a favorite character poll was taken.

- The Pontiac Solstice car has been spotted on the set of TF2. This could mean Jazz is back or it could be a coincidence.

or it could be Stepper :P

- Bay has stated many times that there will be no 'dinosaur robots'.

- When asked about the Constructicons Bay recently said on his website "Maybe in TF3"

- Jetfire is strongly rumored to be in TF2 as a blackbird plane and curiously

as a Decepticon. Which makes sense considering he started out that way in the 80s cartoon and comics

- Word on the street is Arcee will be appearing as a motorcycle

complete with a leather clad holomater bodacious babe to ride her

Doctor DooM

Galvasean wrote: »

Rumour Control:

- Soundwave has NOT been confirmed. The producers in question said they would consider including him after a favorite character poll was taken.

- The Pontiac Solstice car has been spotted on the set of TF2. This could mean Jazz is back or it could be a coincidence.

or it could be Stepper :P

- Bay has stated many times that there will be no 'dinosaur robots'.

- When asked about the Constructicons Bay recently said on his website "Maybe in TF3"

- Jetfire is strongly rumored to be in TF2 as a blackbird plane and curiously

as a Decepticon. Which makes sense considering he started out that way in the 80s cartoon and comics

- Word on the street is Arcee will be appearing as a motorcycle

complete with a leather clad holomater bodacious babe to ride her

no Dinobots? £$%^ Bay.

Galvasean

Well he said 'no dinosaur robots'. There could be a 'Dinobot' character, just not with the recognized alt mode. All speculation BTW

faceman

Sorry dude, rumour control part 2... see below

Galvasean wrote: »

Rumour Control:

- Soundwave has NOT been confirmed. The producers in question said they would consider including him after a favorite character poll was taken.

he has, i will root the link and post it

wrote:

- Jetfire is strongly rumored to be in TF2 as a blackbird plane and curiously

as a Decepticon. Which makes sense considering he started out that way in the 80s cartoon and comics

there was a reference to Jetfire on one of the call sheets

wrote:

- Word on the street is Arcee will be appearing as a motorcycle

complete with a leather clad holomater bodacious babe to ride her

Its just a rumour. However the leaked call sheet referenced "Arcee Motorcycles". What that means is anyone's guess although it is known that Arcee was dropped from the first films TF line up in pre production.

Kiith

More Hot Rod please.

Galvasean

faceman wrote: »

he has, i will root the link and post it

Please do

faceman

Galvasean wrote: »

Please do

Oops sorry forgot about this, i will post it later on.

faceman

Link confirming Soundwave is in TF2

http://movies.ign.com/articles/874/874632p1.html

Unconfirmed photos of arcee below

http://transformers.moviechronicles.com/2008-06/the-custom-built-arcee-motorcycle/

Galvasean

Cool! Soundwave AND possibly Ravage. I wonder what sort of take they'll put on him/them. This could be very interesting.

AtomicHorror

faceman wrote: »

Its just a rumour. However the leaked call sheet referenced "Arcee Motorcycles". What that means is anyone's guess although it is known that Arcee was dropped from the first films TF line up in pre production.

Someone on donmurphy.net asked Bob Orci about her- think he indicated that she's in but has undergone a redesign from the version put forward for the first film and later adapted to the toy.

constitutionus

i ****ing HATE arcee. how the hell do we end up with a fembot possibly getting in but next to no chance of grimlock? FFS his relationship with prime is the closest the bots have to a megs screamer dynamic.

in regards to the jazz thing theres a pic out there of a silver car that looks like an evolved version of jazz which'd suit him being brought back by prime and that splinter of the allspark. i know some have been saying thats a bad idea but it was a crap death that had no gravity to it and if they actually use his comeback as a character peice it could be a very good thing. think prime getting told off by humans (either sam or some political/military type) over humans getting killed permanently left right and center but TFs getting ressurrected when ever they want.

you could set it up as a moral quandry for prime. i.e destroy the splinter or eventually destroy the earth.

ok thats a bit contrived but it shows that resurrecting jazz doesnt have to be naff.

any news on when were getting a trailer ?

faceman

Recent interview with producer Bob Orci and he confirmed there will be no Dinobots in the new movie. He didnt again speak of Soundwave though (who he already confirmed) but wouldnt confirm what he would transform into.

Galvasean

He also said Megatron coming back from the dead would be 'silly'. Although he said it kind of tongue-in-cheek which makes you wonder what he's up to...

faceman

Galvasean wrote: »

He also said Megatron coming back from the dead would be 'silly'. Although he said it kind of tongue-in-cheek which makes you wonder what he's up to...

I reckon he was hinting at megatron redux or galvatron or something.

brennaldo

i wasnt familiar with the cartoon series or anything, but my cousin told me that hasbro (the company associated with transformers) made a toy or a character called the fallen..... so it made me think if the name is revenge of the fallen, then maybe this transformer (a decepticon) will be the main one with megatron dead......... also bringing megatron back would be wrong in my eyes simply because his body was in bits and dumped in the ocean

BlitzKrieg

yes its been confirmed (via wiki)

that the Fallen will be in the movie

He's one of the first 13 transformers and a servent of unicron.

* The Fallen. Introduced in the second Transformers: The War Within comic book (2003), the Fallen was one of the original thirteen Transformers who became a servant of Unicron. Creator Simon Furman, who is writing this film's comic book adaptation, confirmed the filmmakers are using the character.[60]

Is that a hint where they might be taking the films?

monkeyfudge

I think I read Simon Furman's original comments on this... and I think that wiki entry is stretching things a little bit.

Perrin

brennaldo wrote: »

i wasnt familiar with the cartoon series or anything, but my cousin told me that hasbro (the company associated with transformers) made a toy or a character called the fallen..... so it made me think if the name is revenge of the fallen, then maybe this transformer (a decepticon) will be the main one with megatron dead......... also bringing megatron back would be wrong in my eyes simply because his body was in bits and dumped in the ocean

I wudn't mind seeing megatron back,it a be class to see another optimus vs megatron battle

Galvasean

I REALLY doubt the film is about The Fallen character from the War Within comic. Just seems far too obscure for them to base a movie around.

monkeyfudge

Plus... isn't he on fire all the time...?

brennaldo

Perrin wrote: »

I wudn't mind seeing megatron back,it a be class to see another optimus vs megatron battle

im not saying i wouldnt like to see this, its just the way they ended the first one it just seems wrong that they would............. also about this "fallen" character is he like a main one or one of the biggest or something

monkeyfudge

The latest photos from the set seem to show an Ice cream truck transformer.

That's actually sort of cool.

Galvasean

The title is probably a reference to Starscream IMO

monkeyfudge

Apparently 'The Fallen' actually does refer to a characters name. So it looks like they probably are going with the character from the comic books. All a bit after my time though.

faceman

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Apparently 'The Fallen' actually does refer to a characters name. So it looks like they probably are going with the character from the comic books. All a bit after my time though.

Im not as au fait with it either but as i recall in the comic books wasnt the Fallen ridiculously huge is size?

Ger_Hankey

The Fallen

Transforms into a fireplace, apparently.

And was also designed by Pat Lee. That one's really going to go down well with the fans....

Doctor DooM

They're either going to have to shift the focus of the films completely or change the fallen totally if they want to make that work.

I severely doubt either, tbh.

Galvasean

SDooM wrote: »

They're either going to have to shift the focus of the films completely or change the fallen totally if they want to make that work.

I severely doubt either, tbh.

Agreed. To use the same Fallen character that was in the comic would be opening a doorway to ancient Transformers lore; Primus, Unicron etc. And it has been stated that they have no intention of putting Unicron in a film. (Perhaps transforming planets is a bridge too far?)
If they did have to alter the Fallen character to such a degree why would they even bother with him in the first place.
Like I said before I believe the Fallen is a reference to a character we already know about (either Starscream or Megatron).

Doctor DooM

Galvasean wrote: »

Agreed. To use the same Fallen character that was in the comic would be opening a doorway to ancient Transformers lore; Primus, Unicron etc. And it has been stated that they have no intention of putting Unicron in a film. (Perhaps transforming planets is a bridge too far?)
If they did have to alter the Fallen character to such a degree why would they even bother with him in the first place.
Like I said before I believe the Fallen is a reference to a character we already know about (either Starscream or Megatron).

Yeah, fallen to me made me immediately think megatron, or those that died on Cybertron.

faceman

given its michael bay we're dealing with I think its safe to assume the simplest meaning in the title. The 'fallen' referring to the decepticons.

GWolf

Didn't you hear? Simon Furman and Chris Mowry let the cat out of the bag at Comic-Con. Main villian is a character called The Fallen. And He features in the prequel comic. A fan posted this on the Bay board, then every article mentioning it got taken down and re-written. Ha.

constitutionus

OR it could be a scam which furman and co are in on.

i still dont believe that thing about the ice cream van and theres pictures of that monstrocity on the set.

faceman

GWolf wrote: »

Didn't you hear? Simon Furman and Chris Mowry let the cat out of the bag at Comic-Con. Main villian is a character called The Fallen. And He features in the prequel comic. A fan posted this on the Bay board, then every article mentioning it got taken down and re-written. Ha.

Its common knowledge that Bay has been purposefully "leaking" fake rumours show as to confuse everyone

GWolf

I've been in the thick of this on the movie boards since 2006. And that's not disinformation, that's the lads slipping up. Bay's disinformation (of which there is generally very very little to be frank) is very general, the Comic-con stuff was very specific. They said that Transformers: Destiny will bring Reign Of Starscream into continuity, and will give the back story for a lot of characters, since apparently the film opens with a big fight scene, not intros. And two characters mentioned as getting a back story in the comic would be the Fallen and Arcee. A guy who goes by FitForNatalie posted the article on Shootfortheedit. And suddenly, all mention of the Fallen, Arcee, or the IDW staff seeing the script vanished from every article it was mentioned in, and Bay automatically releases a statement saying that nothing should be believed cause of all the radical, and apparently quite costly efforts, he's making to mislead us. Exactly the same thing we heard when leaks (which turned out to be true, like the leaked script, and such) started showing up before the first film. I've seen this damage control before. Plus, I'd hate to be the IDW lot if they said "we'll have the fallen in Destiny" and he didn't show up.

Nope, I would bet my mother and my dog that the main villain is the Fallen. Whether it's anything like our Fallen bar name is another matter, but since Orci said he wasn't bringing Megatron back (again way more specific then his usual stuff so I believe it) I'm betting he's not just a renamed Megatron or something like that.

faceman

Thought I would update on the latest movie news seeing as the movie thread has gone quiet. Most of this is probably already known by now but anyway...

* Megatron is returning and transforms into a tank
* Ravage has a part and will transform into a beast
* Arcee is a motorbike
* Jetfire is there too

and apparantely himself and Prime transform together similar to what happens in Armada

* The constructicons are in the movie and there strong rumours circulating this week that Devastator is in the movie too.
* Some scenes are being shot on imax
* Sideswipe is in the movie as a corvette.