A proper prison.

Terry

USA JAIL - SOME INTERESTING READING
TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF
(ARIZONA) AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
These are some of the reasons why:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of millions of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 20 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He banned smoking and pornographic magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies.
He says:
"They're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave."

He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails.

So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.
When asked why the weather channel, he replied: "So these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while
they are working on my chain gangs."

He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually
tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd 2007), the Associated Press reported: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed wire surrounded tent encampment
at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On the Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were
overheard chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees.

"This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an
inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches,
is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."

The same day he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat
in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers
are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing
full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes,
so shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! If all prisons were like yours there would be a lot less crime and we would not be in the current position of running out of prison spaces.

Sheriff Joe was just re-elected as Sheriff in Maricopa County , Arizona

I for one support this man and his ways.
See pdf for pics.

ojewriej

Very good.

I like the way he knows where to draw the line.

kaimera

support++;

Sheriff Joe for Taoiseach.

dade

jaysus could you imagine them turning the joy into a place like this

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

KTRIC

Theres no reason the Irish Government can't implement something like this. The reoffend rate would drop dramatically.

marti101

I have seen this prison on Bravo.Its very interesting idea but would never work here we have to many bleeding heart liberals.Too interested in the rights of prisoners than the rights of the people they hurt.In the chaingang they do stuff like bury bodies that nobody claim,i remember there was a baby of a baby that nobody claimed so these prisoners had to bury it in a mass grave.Whatever you think jail should be a deterrent not a night at the ritz.I also think he has got it right ,any chance he could come over here and show us a few things.

KTRIC

marti101 wrote: »

I have seen this prison on Bravo.Its very interesting idea but would never work here we have to many bleeding heart liberals.Too interested in the rights of prisoners than the rights of the people they hurt.

Prisoners loose a lot of their rights in many countries. They should be treated as property of the state when they get incarcerated. All rights should be removed, end of.

Ponster

Wasn't this guy on The Last Word in 2007? Did't get a great reception I don't think.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

cornbb

marti101 wrote: »

I have seen this prison on Bravo.Its very interesting idea but would never work here we have to many bleeding heart liberals.Too interested in the rights of prisoners than the rights of the people they hurt.In the chaingang they do stuff like bury bodies that nobody claim,i remember there was a baby of a baby that nobody claimed so these prisoners had to bury it in a mass grave.Whatever you think jail should be a deterrent not a night at the ritz.I also think he has got it right ,any chance he could come over here and show us a few things.

In the US over 50% of state prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent or victimless offenses. In California, people have been convicted for 25 years to life for crimes such as stealing chocolate chip cookies under the 3 Strikes law. Many nonviolent offenders are drug users who need rehabilitation, not imprisonment which will neither rehabilitate them nor protect society from them.

I don't think anyone ever considers prison to be a "night at the Ritz". If we are to set about stripping people of their human rights or dignity, or imposing cruel/unusual punishment, perhaps the punishment should be put into perspective alongside the crime that has actually been committed. Run along with your pitchforks now.

The Bollox

I fully agree with this guy, he has the right idea. I was watching a documentary thing about some lads of about 18 being allowed to go to prison in Ireland, and they were not only given a lot of regualr prison privalages like decent TV (something I don't even have in my house) and access to games like fuz ball, but they were allowed to bring their playstations into the prison with them. WTF! this doesn't fix anything, this probably gives them more liberties than the lives they were living outside the prison walls

Sherifu

As much as I like a good Sheriff, he clearly stole all his ideas.

Dudess

cornbb wrote: »

In the US over 50% of state prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent or victimless offenses. In California, people have been convicted for 25 years to life for crimes such as stealing chocolate chip cookies under the 3 Strikes law. Many nonviolent offenders are drug users who need rehabilitation, not imprisonment which will neither rehabilitate them nor protect society from them.

I don't think anyone ever considers prison to be a "night at the Ritz". If we are to set about stripping people of their human rights or dignity, or imposing cruel/unusual punishment, perhaps the punishment should be put into perspective alongside the crime that has actually been committed. Run along with your pitchforks now.

You do realise that even though your post is well backed up and you don't indicate you'd support an easy ride for prisoners, you'll still be branded a "PC liberal bleeding heart pinko looney leftie"? Or is it a "PC looney heart liberal bleeding pinko leftie"?
Anyhoo, that sheriff's methods would cause outrage if they were being put to use in Zimbabwe. Some aspects of his regime are fair enough - no cable, movies, ciggies, coffee or porn - it is prison after all. Although that's gonna cause some serious frustration and I can't imagine that being of any benefit to, for instance, an already violent person.
But the tents under blazing sun, chain gangs and low food rations that the prisoners must pay for themselves? Utter sadism.
Wouldn't be surprised if some of those guys came out even more violent than before.
And before some idiot inevitably asks me whether I'd recommend digital TV, X Boxes, a swimming pool, a gym etc for prisoners, I haven't given one iota of an indication that that's what I'd be in favour of. That's one extreme, the sheriff's is the other, I'm saying it should be somewhere in between.

Steve_o

Fair play to Sheriff Joe... If only they did that here (rain instead of mad heat), that'd learn them scumbags!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

You do realise you're talking about a guy who authorised the beating up of a paraplegic who was convicted of marijuana posession to the point that said paraplegic can no longer use his arms?

And the beating of blind prisoners?

You want that here, you're going to have to elect someone on the the mental capacities of George W Bush as president. Don't say you weren't warned.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Now, I didn't read all of your post but...

Dudess wrote: »

I'd recommend digital TV, X Boxes, a swimming pool, a gym etc for prisoners

And while we're at it, maybe twice or three times a year, have Gordon Ramsay and Jamie Oliver come in and cook for them. :rolleyes:

:pac:

Dudess

LOL
Yeah, if internet accounts are to be believed, this isn't some "good ole boy" who's fighting for a better world, this is one heck of a cruel dude.

connundrum

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You do realise you're talking about a guy who authorised the beating up of a paraplegic who was convicted of marijuana posession to the point that said paraplegic can no longer use his arms?

And the beating of blind prisoners?

You want that here, you're going to have to elect someone on the the mental capacities of George W Bush as president. Don't say you weren't warned.

I presume that most people were agreeing with the ideas outlined in the OP, where nowt was mentioned of beating blind or paraplegic people.

I'd agree with the majority of the sherif's plan there. Something has to be shaken up in order to try and reduce reoffending rates.

Dudess

I'd be afraid of them going in bad enough and coming out utter psychos after spending time in those conditions.

Sherifu

Sherifu wrote: »

As much as I like a good Sheriff, he clearly stole all his ideas.

LOL that was on tv last night Sherifu. Ol fella was watching it.

I totally agree with his methods.

Adam

I really hate this "oh don't treat them bad" attitude. Um, excuse you liberal lot, but it's not exactly difficult to stay out of prison. If you don't commit any crimes, you won't end up inside.

@cornbb

You mention the three strikes rule. Well excuse me, but why were they stealing chocolate? And what were the other two strikes? You act like they've done nothing wrong, when obviously they have.

Earthhorse

Dudess wrote: »

Some aspects of his regime are fair enough - no cable, movies, ciggies, coffee or porn - it is prison after all...

But the tents under blazing sun, chain gangs and low food rations that the prisoners must pay for themselves? Utter sadism.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. You couldn't build a tent prison in Ireland either because your prisoners would freeze to death.

Interesting that the article doesn't mention anything about the effect on re-offending rates which is probably because it hasn't had any.

vibe666

not to mention doing something drastic to stop blind paraplegics from skinning up.

seriously tho, there is a thing called "middle ground" that might need to be looked at and prison is only one link in a long chain involved in the whole crime/punishment circle.

anyone who thinks time in prison is a walk in the park should try it for a couple of weeks because you'll be in for one hell of a shock, and I speak from personal experience.

they aren't a nice place to be confined to for any length of time, no matter what the 'perks' may be.

Dudess

Exactly. I read all this talk of "Oh de 'Joy is like a hotel" etc... Eh, it isn't. It's a scary as **** place to be.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

connundrum wrote: »

I presume that most people were agreeing with the ideas outlined in the OP, where nowt was mentioned of beating blind or paraplegic people.

I'd agree with the majority of the sherif's plan there. Something has to be shaken up in order to try and reduce reoffending rates.

Not the safest assumption I've ever heard...

Anyway, we've been through this before. Hit the teenager scumbag-wannabes beforethey become 20s-scumbags proper. Give them some to do that'll keep them off the streets before they're ON The streets.

The problem is that this takes time, effort and money and your average hardass-conservative-fvckwit can't be arsed. Besides - where's he gonna get his violence-fix now?

cornbb

Mirror wrote: »

@cornbb

You mention the three strikes rule. Well excuse me, but why were they stealing chocolate? And what were the other two strikes? You act like they've done nothing wrong, when obviously they have.

I don't know what else he did wrong. Time was also served for the other offences. But don't you think its a bit inappropriate to be sentenced to over 20 years of prison for petty theft? Of course they've done something wrong, I believe crime should be punished, but I said "punishment should be put into perspective alongside the crime that has actually been committed". Of course, its much easier to stand around saying "raaaah" and "lock em up and throw away the key!" when in fact in the real world prison does little to dissuade people from re-offending.

vibe666

to anyone who thinks the advice to just "not commit crimes" is eough to keep you out of prison, you'd be surprised how quickly a perfect life can turn to $hit and put you in a position where you don't feel you have any choice.

I'm not saying that everyone in prison is a saint, but just like being the best driver in the world won't prevent you from being involved in a car crash, being a law obiding citizen is no guarantee you'll never spend time inside.

sometimes life really is a bitch.

'Ol Jack Chance

Dudess wrote: »

I read all this talk of "Oh de 'Joy is like a hotel" etc... Eh, it isn't. It's a scary as **** place to be.

This is true for most people certainly it would scare the bejaysus out of me...however if all your mates are in there and your gonna be out in a few months to a year it's not so scary. Not saying I agree with degrading prisoners food and shelter wise but they could do without the playstations and digital tv. Being on a chain gang and being made to give back to society through hard work is something I'd be in favour of.

Dudess

vibe666 wrote: »

I'm not saying that everyone in prison is a saint, but just like being the best driver in the world won't prevent you from being involved in a car crash, being a law obiding citizen is no guarantee you'll never spend time inside.

Especially if you're poor, black, Hispanic, a combination of some or all of the above.

'Ol wrote:

they could do without the playstations and digital tv.

Agreed. It's a joke that any of those are allowed in any prison.

Being on a chain gang and being made to give back to society through hard work is something I'd be in favour of.

Hard work, no chain gangs though.

gixerfixer

I like it. Emmm except for the part when he says..."It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too,and they have full battle gear on and get shot at,and they have not commited any crimes".....Yeah,sure they havent sheriff joe:rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

if you were already caught stealing chocolate twice, and knew the third time would land you in jail, and still you steal chocolate, then frankly you should be exterminated for your stupidity. life sentence is weak.

'Ol Jack Chance

leninbenjamin wrote: »

if you were already caught stealing chocolate twice, and knew the third time would land you in jail, and still you steal chocolate, then frankly you should be exterminated for your stupidity. life sentence is weak.

Life sentence in this country doesn't even mean life! i mean come on at least dont call it a life sentence if your gonna get paroled (sp?) in your life

Irishcrx

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

marti101

cornbb wrote: »

In the US over 50% of state prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent or victimless offenses. In California, people have been convicted for 25 years to life for crimes such as stealing chocolate chip cookies under the 3 Strikes law. Many nonviolent offenders are drug users who need rehabilitation, not imprisonment which will neither rehabilitate them nor protect society from them.

I don't think anyone ever considers prison to be a "night at the Ritz". If we are to set about stripping people of their human rights or dignity, or imposing cruel/unusual punishment, perhaps the punishment should be put into perspective alongside the crime that has actually been committed. Run along with your pitchforks now.

I agree if the crime is not having a tv licence then they shouldnt have such a hard punishment but we are talking bout rapists murders then i think the government should come down hard and think about the victims and not the crims.And about a night at the ritz some jails have better facilities than tax paying people can afford its just not on that they can sit in jail and play videogames

Dudess

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

Yep, some dehumanised people aren't gonna give a sh1t about going back to prison. Paddy Hill of the Birmingham Six is completely fcked up and has said if the rage he's feeling ever drives him to killing someone (and he says he wouldn't be surprised if that happened) the prison sentence won't bother him - as long as he's guilty.

SimpleSam06

Irishcrx wrote: »

making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it

Prisoners kept stealing the other boxers, so he changed the colour to pink.

I watched the show on this prison, it was very interesting. It didn't look particularly cruel to me, if I had to go to prison I'd rather be in an airy tent looking up at the blue sky than stuck in a concrete box. They did adopt a zero tolerance policy, with raids by a tac team at random intervals, keeping the prisoners in a permanent state of terror, but seriously, its prison.

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

If we really want a long term answer to criminality, we need to look for different solutions.

'Ol Jack Chance

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

The idea behind prison is to rehabilite the prisoner not to punish them. To rehabilitate them and then reintegrate them to society. We all know this doesnt work in practice but thats ideology behind prison and parole. otherwise whats the point in building prisons and spending however much to feed and clothe them.

cornbb

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this

Really? Thats your opinion? Don't you think prisons should have some sort of positive goal (rehabilitation of the prisoner, the protection of the rest of society, cutting down crime) rather than just the imposition of suffering?

I wholeheartedly agree that wrongdoers should be punished, I just think the imposition of suffering in itself isn't going to make the world a better place - if we are going to lock people up we might as well try to make society a better place for it, rather than just making people suffer for the sake of suffering. Genuine rehabilitation might actually reform criminals and cut down on re-offenders. Cruel and unusual punishment just makes bitter, angry animals of them.

I also agree that its ridiculous that playstations, budgies, phones etc are allowed in Irish prisons. The conditions described in that article are the other extreme though, they are degrading and were abandoned in most civilised parts of the world many decades ago.

chopperbyrne

cornbb wrote: »

Really? Thats your opinion? Don't you think prisons should have some sort of positive goal (rehabilitation of the prisoner, the protection of the rest of society, cutting down crime) rather than just the imposition of suffering?

I wholeheartedly agree that wrongdoers should be punished, I just think the imposition of suffering in itself isn't going to make the world a better place - if we are going to lock people up we might as well try to make society a better place for it, rather than just making people suffer for the sake of suffering. Genuine rehabilitation might actually reform criminals and cut down on re-offenders. Cruel and unusual punishment just makes bitter, angry animals of them.

I also agree that its ridiculous that playstations, budgies, phones etc are allowed in Irish prisons. The conditions described in that article are the other extreme though, they are degrading and were abandoned in most civilised parts of the world many decades ago.

Did you even read his post? He said that's what they are now, but we need to change in order to cut crime and prevent reoffense.

cornbb

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Did you even read his post? He said that's what they are now, but we need to change in order to cut crime and prevent reoffense.

You're right, I re-read his post and I'm an idiot. D'oh, sorry >.<

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Prisoners kept stealing the other boxers, so he changed the colour to pink.

I watched the show on this prison, it was very interesting. It didn't look particularly cruel to me, if I had to go to prison I'd rather be in an airy tent looking up at the blue sky than stuck in a concrete box. They did adopt a zero tolerance policy, with raids by a tac team at random intervals, keeping the prisoners in a permanent state of terror, but seriously, its prison.

Which brings us to another point - prisons aren't for rehabilitation, to make people better. They are for punishment, to make them suffer. There is no question about this. Thats not right or whats best for society, but thats the way it is.

If we really want a long term answer to criminality, we need to look for different solutions.

1 -Woo hoo! Legalised terrorism!
2 - You are JOKING! How, in the name of all that is holy, do you expect the reoffending rate to go down? And DO NOT say fear, because that CLEARLY doesn;t work!

No question, my left testicle!

chopperbyrne

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

1 -Woo hoo! Legalised terrorism!
2 - You are JOKING! How, in the name of all that is holy, do you expect the reoffending rate to go down? And DO NOT say fear, because that CLEARLY doesn;t work!

No question, my left testicle!

See above :rolleyes:

Daftendirekt

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

+1

Prison should be tough, but it shouldn't be run by sadists.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

chopperbyrne wrote: »

See above :rolleyes:

see below...? Make sense!

Dudess

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't agree with this, i'm all for tougher sentences etc but this guy is a control freak , he's a cruel person and obviously enjoys watching suffering, making people walk around in pink boxer shorts is degrading he probably gets his kicks out of it, taking away TV, gym equipment , books, magazines , overworking in that kind of heat is inhumane criminal or not people do have rights as human beings. I think this can have as bad effect as a good one, with nothing to do on a 8 year sentence this kind of thing could warp your mind even worst build up alot of hate and when released someone might snap and say shoot up a school?...It would be fine to just lock them up, keep them active working no need for all this.

Yep. He just seems like a horrible bully who wants to get paid for pushing people around, so he gravitated towards law enforcement. No doubt that's not unusual, but he's particularly extreme.

Adam

All this "rehabilitation" bullcrap grates me the wrong way.

If I ever committed a serious crime, say I landed myself with 10 years in the slammer, I know in myself I would hate it, whether it was an Irish prison system or our good sheriffs idealogy there. I would hate it so much I would do anything in my power to not end up back inside.

But that's me. Merely serving the time would be rehabilitating enough. The potential sentences should be a deterrent. So if I knew I was going to spend ten years in hell for a crime, I wouldn't commit the crime.

Some people can't be rehabilitated, they just don't care enough. So thinking you can send a mass murderer away and cross your fingers and hope that he is rehabilitated when he comes out again is pointless. And whatever hope there may be of that happening, I would wager he is less likely to reoffend having the sentence in the sheriffs prison looming over his head than if he had the sentence in our prison system looming over his head.

In short, the sentence is the rehabilitation for regular folk like you or I. For the extremists, not so much. So a seriously tough jailbird lifestyle should act as a deterent. With tough sentences, the folk that can be rehabilitated would probably be less likely to offend ever, and the extremists that do end up inside deserve the hell they've earned, knowing full well what they would be in for before committing the crime.

kowloon

With SimpleSam on this; prison is all about punishment, keeping the victims, or the victims family, happy that something has been done. It doesn't rehabilitate anyone.

I question the worth of any system that results in the prisoners being released back into the population with years of built up resentment only exacerbated by the harshness of the regime.

If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. - Niccolo Mahiavelli.

Dyr

I saw a thing on this fella, he came across as a right pr**k, repeatedly jailing people with drink problems until they got sick of it and moved out of the county.


Anyway we should be modelling ourselves on the japanese prison system, no messing there i tells ya!

Voodu Child

terry wrote: »

When Asked Why The Weather Channel, He Replied: "so These Morons Will Know How Hot It's Gonna Be While They Are Working On My Chain Gangs."

Lol

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Aould simplesam, mirror, chopperbyrne (if I did misunderstand you and youweren't condoning terrorism and reoffending, I wasn;t sure) or some other fvckwit-conservative guntoter who juts wants a bit of comuppance PLEASE answer my previous post about how you put an end to reoffending...?

"Oooh, they should be so scared that they don;t want to go back in jail...?" Yes. They're going to be terrified. Hmm... don't wanna go back there, must get a job and go straihgt? Are you for real?

Yes, make it tough, yes make it horrible, but if you don't want to rehabiliatate, get a fvcking revolving door put in! And DON'T WHINGE when the rapist who served 20 years of hell but didn;t get rehabilitated comes out and rapes your daughter/sister/girlfriend on the way home from the pub.