Paddy Power slashes Lisbon No vote odds

johnnyq

Link

Paddy's No vote odds fall from 5/1 to 8/13 in what is a sure sign that the right-wing Lisbon Treaty will be rejected.

No harm at all. Hope ye got ye'er bets in early

Rb

Haha, brilliant.

MooseJam

I'm voting yes

kippy

I have 50 on a no result for the past few weeks. Easy money I reckon.

johnnyq

Why would you agree to sign away 30+ vetos for essentially nothing?

It makes no sense.

No wonder no one else in Europe is allowed vote.

Rb

johnnyq wrote: »

Why would you agree to sign away 30+ vetos for essentially nothing?

It makes no sense.

Indeed. It's quite hilarious to see the same people who'll vote Yes, who'll keep Fianna Fail in power calling the Americans idiots for putting and keeping Bush around.

suspectdevice

johnnyq wrote: »

Why would you agree to sign away 30+ vetos for essentially nothing?

It makes no sense.

No wonder no one else in Europe is allowed vote.

why do we get to vote and the rest of them don't? is it always going to be that way or will a yes vote get rid of our ability to veto?

Neamhshuntasach

"The good thing about not calling it a Constitution is that no one can ask for a referendum on it” - Giuliano Amato

Rb

suspectdevice wrote: »

why do we get to vote and the rest of them don't? is it always going to be that way or will a yes vote get rid of our ability to veto?

You know what's sick?
They had to vote amongst themselves (the EU) to see whether we should actually be asked to vote, or if they'd just push the thing through as they did in other countries. Somehow they decided to give us the vote (which the Yes side are now trying to play as an act of kindness or something similar) and the morons in this country, without questioning it, will look at the sign posts and see their local politicians telling them what to do and then go do it like the f*cking lemmings they are.

France and Holland voted no already, and it was pushed through anyway. Polls taken in the UK (don't have them onhand so don't ask me for them) showed they were against it. If we go and vote Yes, I will truly be embarrassed to call myself Irish. Although, it will half our power in Europe, which we probably deserve if we go with a Yes.

The current President of Europe has actually attempted to threaten us into a yes. The whole thing is sickening at this stage. The fact that some political parties are using it as an excuse to get their faces up on billboards f*cking sickens me too.

kippy

suspectdevice wrote: »

why do we get to vote and the rest of them don't? is it always going to be that way or will a yes vote get rid of our ability to veto?

We get to vote on it as I believe we have to amend the constitution to allow the treaty to pass. Anything that requires a constitutional amendment requires a public vot.
I think you'll probably find a better explanation in the politics forum.

Seriously though, despite the fact that the no campaign is being backed by the same people that if they were in charge would still have us back in the late 60's economically wise, the no vote is the obvious winner due the the amount of people who cant see any benefit whatsoever in voting yes.

Rb

kippy wrote: »

We get to vote on it as I believe we have to amend the constitution to allow the treaty to pass. Anything that requires a constitutional amendment requires a public vot.
I think you'll probably find a better explanation in the politics forum.

Seriously though, despite the fact that the no campaign is being backed by the same people that if they were in charge would still have us back in the late 60's economically wise, the no vote is the obvious winner due the the amount of people who cant see any benefit whatsoever in voting yes.

The fact that the Yes vote is being backed by Fianna Fail who've managed the Celtic Tiger so poorly, would be setting alarm bells off for me alone.

johnnyq

suspectdevice wrote: »

why do we get to vote and the rest of them don't? is it always going to be that way or will a yes vote get rid of our ability to veto?

It's all thanks to one man Raymond Crotty who took a court case to stop the Dail sneaking in a treaty years ago.

That was because Ireland has a different constitution to the rest of Europe

But legal experts say that due to a technicality that the government didn't actually need to bring in a vote this time.

Of course it would be suicide if they tried to sneak it in after we vote no though.

But no the treaty doesn't get rid of our right to hold a referendum (since it seems the government doesn't need to anyway:mad:)

johnnyq

Just in case anyone doesn’t know

5 reasons to vote No:

1) Endorsement of the Arms Industry and militarisation of the EU
2) The treaty does not do anything to prevent the power of Big Business over workers rights following recent EU court judgements
3) We still have an unelected commission who sets EU laws PLUS we get an unelected President and Foreign Minister (under different names of course)
4) Ireland loses 30+ vetos in exchange for vitually NOTHING.
5) This treaty is 96% the same as the EU constitution which was already rejected by French & Dutch voters who are not allowed vote again

This treaty is particularly right wing and needs to be renegotiated. It's no wonder that the Trade Unions and Left Wing politicians like Senator David Norris is voting No.

marco murphy

johnnyq wrote: »

Why would you agree to sign away 30+ vetos for essentially nothing?

It makes no sense.

No wonder no one else in Europe is allowed vote.

+1.
Looks like the no will prevail.

bleg

Rb wrote: »

The fact that the Yes vote is being backed by Fianna Fail who've managed the Celtic Tiger so poorly, would be setting alarm bells off for me alone.

the fact that the no vote is being backed by sinn fein (we all know their record) would be setting off alarm bells for me.


haven't really been paying much attention cause i'm off to america on monday for the summer

johnnyq

bleg wrote: »

the fact that the no vote is being backed by sinn fein (we all know their record) would be setting off alarm bells for me.

If the Catholic Church was voting YES would that set off alarm bells too?

Look at the issues at stake.

I for one wouldn't trust Bertie's ilk without informing myself.

/Horses

suspectdevice

so i'll stick with the non political type questions.

do you think there is enough apathy out there towards the fact that we have to go to the trouble of getting up off our ars'es that people will not bother to vote and that those that will bother will vote yes?

or is the no vote mobilised?

Pompey Magnus

This is a good sign. I won't be able to vote on Thursday because I will be away, however as it happens I was never sent a Polling Card . Luckily enough the other three No votes in my home have recieved their cards and will do their duty. I don't know how it is so tight, I only know 2 people who say they will vote Yes, everyone else is voting No.

johnnyq

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

I don't know how it is so tight

Half the country are in Fianna Fail and don't want to be excommunicated by Biffo if they say they will vote no?

Just as well we have secret voting! :eek:

brendan4

Rb wrote: »

The fact that the Yes vote is being backed by Fianna Fail who've managed the Celtic Tiger so poorly, would be setting alarm bells off for me alone.

.... as opposed to sinn fein....

doonothing

I've a tenner on the the result being yes...

But I'm voting no. I just don't see it being a no result though..

johnnyq

brendan4 wrote: »

.... as opposed to sinn fein....

I don't vote Sinn Fein and never will but they have raised some important points that other groups like charities, unions and other social lobby groups have that wouldn't otherwise get the airtime.

badlyparkedmerc

Renowned political thinkers Dana and Kathy Sinnott want a no vote as well, pretty much seals the deal for me.

What's Jim Corr think, that's what I need to know.

suspectdevice

badlyparkedmerc wrote: »

Renowned political thinkers Dana and Kathy Sinnott want a no vote as well, pretty much seals the deal for me.

What's Jim Corr think, that's what I need to know.

yeah, and has anyone heard dustin's opinion on it?

Is there a recent poll showing what people are likely to vote for?

johnnyq

badlyparkedmerc wrote: »

Renowned political thinkers Dana and Kathy Sinnott want a no vote as well, pretty much seals the deal for me.
.

Lol:D

johnnyq

Papa Smut wrote: »

Is there a recent poll showing what people are likely to vote for?

RTÉ News

No side 5% in the lead including undecidedes

vibe666

the one thing that really is astounding is the amount of scaremongering bull$hit being bandied about the place.

a little more education on what this is all actually about a a lot less torches and pitchforks would go a long way to informing people what is right to do for Ireland both now and in the future and the potential consequences of what a vote either way would mean.

there's a shedload of people on here and out in the world who half know what think this is all about pushing half truths as well as outright lies (whether they know it or not) trying to force people who know even less into voting for something none of them really understand and THAT is the most sickening thing of all about this whole mess.

Keano

suspectdevice wrote: »

yeah, and has anyone heard dustin's opinion on it?

Ray D'Arcy show this morning had a poll and over 2000 people voted. 76% on the No side.

Rb

Could someone refresh my memory as to which Irish politician came out and told us all to vote Yes without having seen the document, or read anything about it?

El Weirdo

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

This is a good sign. I won't be able to vote on Thursday because I will be away, however as it happens I was never sent a Polling Card . Luckily enough the other three No votes in my home have recieved their cards and will do their duty. I don't know how it is so tight, I only know 2 people who say they will vote Yes, everyone else is voting No.

You don't need your polling card to vote... If your name's on the list and you have some photo ID, they have to let you vote.

I'm driving the 60 mile round-trip home to put a big fat X in the "No" column.

El Weirdo

Rb wrote: »

Could someone refresh my memory as to which Irish politician came out and told us all to vote Yes without having seen the document, or read anything about it?

I think you'll find that it was a certain Mr. Cowen... In fairness though, he's only a lowly backbencher... no... wait... DOH!

And Charlie McCreevy

Calibos

Was driving home this afternoon with the mother in the car today and she saw a 'Vote No' Sinn Fein poster and said to me, "don't know what the treaty is really about but knowing Sinn Fein want a no vote is enough for me to know that I should Vote Yes". I agreed and was about to post it here but see many others have made the same point! The Dana, Jim Corr and Catholic Church points are bang on the money too. Show me who's voting which way and I'll know which way not to vote

vibe666

Rb wrote: »

Could someone refresh my memory as to which Irish politician came out and told us all to vote Yes without having seen the document, or read anything about it?

I don't want to be picking a fight, but what does that matter?

I find it very odd that you'd be looking for whoever this is when you are doing EXACTLY the same thing for a no vote. :rolleyes:

surely encouraging people to read impartial advice about the lisbon treaty and asking them to make up their own minds would be much better for everyone.

DonJose

Rb wrote: »

Could someone refresh my memory as to which Irish politician came out and told us all to vote Yes without having seen the document, or read anything about it?

The taoiseach, tanaiste and Charlie McCreevy all admitted they haven't read the treaty :eek:

Rb

vibe666 wrote: »

I don't want to be picking a fight, but what does that matter?

I find it very odd that you'd be looking for whoever this is when you are doing EXACTLY the same thing for a no vote. :rolleyes:

surely encouraging people to read impartial advice about the lisbon treaty and asking them to make up their own minds would be much better for everyone.

I read material before making my mind up. I think it's a tad ridiculous that a politician, nevermind our now Taoiseach, would come out with an opinion before he even read anything that would give him the opportunity to form one.

El Weirdo

Calibos wrote: »

Was driving home this afternoon with the mother in the car today and she saw a 'Vote No' Sinn Fein poster and said to me, "don't know what the treaty is really about but knowing Sinn Fein want a no vote is enough for me to know that I should Vote Yes". I agreed and was about to post it here but see many others have made the same point! The Dana, Jim Corr and Catholic Church points are bang on the money too. Show me who's voting which way and I'll know which way not to vote

About the same amount that have said they'd be voting no because Fianna Fail say to vote yes...

judas101

yes will win, you'll see

heyjude

Rb wrote:

Could someone refresh my memory as to which Irish politician came out and told us all to vote Yes without having seen the document, or read anything about it?

vibe666 wrote: »

I don't want to be picking a fight, but what does that matter?

If Cowan was merely a media pundit or lowly backbencher, then the fact that he hasn't read the Lisbon Treaty wouldn't be significant, but as leader of the government that approved the treaty and now as leader of the Yes campaign, it is very significant.

I thought Brian Cowan had a legal background, if so would he advise people to sign contracts that they haven't read ? For essentially by voting Yes, we are signing the Lisbon Treaty contract and all it entails.

judas101

heyjude wrote: »

If Cowan was merely a media pundit or lowly backbencher, then the fact that he hasn't read the Lisbon Treaty wouldn't be significant, but as leader of the government that approved the treaty and now as leader of the Yes campaign, it is very significant.

I thought Brian Cowan had a legal background, if so would he advise people to sign contracts that they haven't read ? For essentially by voting Yes, we are signing the Lisbon Treaty contract and all it entails.

with all due respect, i'm certain cowan knows exactly what the treaty entails. whether he sat down and read some crappy pamphlet is another matter.

xOxSinéadxOx

it doesn't matter what way you vote cos those EU people voted and decided to pass the treaty anyway even if ireland produces a no vote

heyjude

I notice that instead of selling the positive points of the Lisbon Treaty, large sections of the Yes campaign have been engaged instead in tarring the political parties, groups and individuals that have urged a No vote. The same has happened here on Boards including several postings on this thread.

But consider this, if following the last General Election, Fianna Fail had come up a few TDs short of forming a government, is there anyone that thinks that Bertie wouldn't have approached Sinn Fein for their support, if that is what he needed to stay in power ? No way, he'd have been straight on the phone to Gerry Adams, the only reason they are casting stones at Sinn Fein now is that they don't need them. Remember, Fianna Fail and Brian Cowan in particular, were very bitchy towards the Greens in the last election and they ended up in government together, the same could have happened with Sinn Fein.


So Fianna Failers who hurl insults about how only extremists are opposing the treaty should consider that if the election arithmetic had turned out just slightly differently, then Sinn Fein would probably be their coalition partners in government now. Or is it a case that going into government with extremists is okay if you need too, but otherwise they should be ignored.

Also for all the optimism of the majority of posters on Boards, concerning a Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty vote, I haven't met a single person who will admit to be going to vote Yes, while I must have spoke to at least a dozen who are voting No. Could it be the Yes voters that are too embarrassed to say ?

Guy:Incognito

I see everyone on the no side is bemoaning FF and not mentioning the fact that FG are also on the yes side.

The posters are assuming enough anti FF sentiment can be drummed up to smokscreen the fact that all the parties that matter are on the yes side and not just FF.

Daftendirekt

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

it doesn't matter what way you vote cos those EU people voted and decided to pass the treaty anyway even if ireland produces a no vote

:rolleyes:

The treaty can't be passed unless every member state agrees to it. This means that we would have to change our constitution by means of a referendum. If we don't ratify the treaty, it won't be passed.

And unfortunately, it looks like the No side are winning at the moment, not because there's anything particularly bad about the treaty, but because of the huge amount of misinformation floating around.

Pompey Magnus

Daftendirekt wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The treaty can't be passed unless every member state agrees to it. This means that we would have to change our constitution by means of a referendum. If we don't ratify the treaty, it won't be passed.

Yes, but if we vote No will they get us to do it over and over again until we make the "right" decision?

xOxSinéadxOx

Daftendirekt wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The treaty can't be passed unless every member state agrees to it. This means that we would have to change our constitution by means of a referendum. If we don't ratify the treaty, it won't be passed.

And unfortunately, it looks like the No side are winning at the moment, not because there's anything particularly bad about the treaty, but because of the huge amount of misinformation floating around.

just saaaaying

Rb

heyjude wrote: »

Also for all the optimism of the majority of posters on Boards, concerning a Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty vote, I haven't met a single person who will admit to be going to vote Yes, while I must have spoke to at least a dozen who are voting No. Could it be the Yes voters that are too embarrassed to say ?

Lol, likewise. Similarly, I also find it hard to find people who'll openly admit to being Fianna Fail voters.

This is something we also see in the states, where if you ask randomers if they voted for Bush, they'll almost never say Yes. It's some sort of secret shame, yet they do it anyway.

Then those who do go vote for Fianna Fail will also be complaining about their screw ups a few months down the line, as will those who vote yes should it go through.

johnnyq

Rb wrote: »

Then those who do go vote for Fianna Fail will also be complaining about their screw ups a few months down the line, as will those who vote yes should it go through.

Sneak Peak from BBC:

Call for EU to build its own army

Plans include new EU Army headquarters

EU militarisation is already underway

Vote NO to stop the requirement on Ireland to "increase military capabilities".

Let's decide for ourselves how to invest our taxes. Hospitals and Schools could need it!

marco murphy

Was driving home this afternoon with the mother in the car today and she saw a 'Vote No' Sinn Fein poster and said to me, "don't know what the treaty is really about but knowing Sinn Fein want a no vote is enough for me to know that I should Vote Yes". I agreed and was about to post it here but see many others have made the same point!

Childish, narrowminded and stupid quite frankly. You'll find Sinn Fein have very solid points as to why one should vote no.

vibe666

heyjude wrote: »

I notice that instead of selling the positive points of the Lisbon Treaty, large sections of the Yes campaign have been engaged instead in tarring the political parties, groups and individuals that have urged a No vote. The same has happened here on Boards including several postings on this thread.

i think it's fairly safe to say both sides have been slinging a a great deal of mud (and FUD) regarding this.

a little bit more honesty and a concerted effort to raise public awareness would have gone a long way to making sure it had all been done properly.

oh, actually, hang on a minute there I forgot where I as for a second. :rolleyes:

P.S. isn't it great to have o'l rolleyes back again?

EDIT: has anyone else noticed that if ou had some patience, a craft knife and some glue, the sinn fein "VOTE NO!" signs could all be changed to read "VOTE NOi" just by cutting out the exclamation mark & turning it upside down?

that'd fox em.