Diesel!!

al-007

Does red diesel harm your car... My dad put red diesel in the car yesterday :eek: as he didnt have enought to get to filling station.. I think its bad for car but not sure??

any help? Might just bleed the tank anyway!! :mad:

ShayK1

wisegeek.com wrote:

Red diesel fuel is only slightly different chemically from regular automotive diesel fuel, but there can be a significant difference in cost. The cheaper red diesel fuel could conceivably work in place of the more expensive automotive diesel fuel, but that would defeat the purpose of a fuel tax. In order to ensure that home heating oil, which is minimally taxed, is not used as diesel fuel, which can be heavily taxed, revenue agents require home heating oil to receive a special red dye. This liquid red dye can be detected in even the smallest samples taken for examination.

Don't think its any different to normal diesel cept for the red dye.
Its just taxed less to make it cheaper for agricultural use..

Tis pretty illegal to use in a car though as far as I know??

flanzer

At the rate normal diesel is going up, I can see red diesel providers entering a little boom time!

al-007

I know it illegal thats why I f'ed him out of it but wanted to make sure the car would be ok..

cheers bud.

Biro

If it's actually red diesel, then it must be in the farm tank for 15 years or so, cause it changed to green diesel a long time ago. Therefore, it might be full of sediment. Technically it won't do any harm, but if it's there a while it might be in poor condition. Recently had to drain a farm tank out of red diesel as the steel tank was getting the worse for wear. The state of the crap that came out would frighten me if it went into the tractor, let alone a car!
On another note, aside from the fact that it's illegal to use in a car, apparently traces of the die can be found months after stopping using it.

pburns

Does anyone know what the fine is for using green diesel these days?

I remember at school a mates dad run his car & 4x4 on red (a few years ago!) He'd worked it out that even if caught & fined using the cheaper fuel still worked out cheaper

eringobragh

pburns wrote: »

Does anyone know what the fine is for using green diesel these days?

I remember at school a mates dad run his car & 4x4 on red (a few years ago!) He'd worked it out that even if caught & fined using the cheaper fuel still worked out cheaper

AFAIK The possession of Green Diesel carries a mandatory fine of €3,000

SV

eringobragh wrote: »

AFAIK The possession of Green Diesel carries a mandatory fine of €3,000

Well with the price of Diesel..

al-007

Well it was agri (tractor) diesel so I assume it was green. Didnt know it changed colour.. Learn something new everyday

Run_to_da_hills

He would have been better off going down the road and purchasing a few bottles of vegi oil and pouring it straight into the tank, at least he is not risking a criminal conviction and a 3k fine. Even with the recent increase in price with vegi oil in mainstream super markets it still works out at about 2.50 a gallon cheaper than the average price of Diesel.

macnab

I think its still red up north of the border, either way it wont harm your car at all. Just drive the car until its nearly empty then fill it up to the neck, that will dilute it as much as possible in case you get stopped and dipped.

craichoe

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

He would have been better off going down the road and purchasing a few bottles of vegi oil and pouring it straight into the tank, at least he is not risking a criminal conviction and a 3k fine. Even with the recent increase in price with vegi oil in mainstream super markets it still works out at about 2.50 a gallon cheaper than the average price of Diesel.

Without knowing what type of engine it is that would be very stupid, could make absolute sh*t of the fuel pump.

Matt Simis

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

He would have been better off going down the road and purchasing a few bottles of vegi oil and pouring it straight into the tank, at least he is not risking a criminal conviction and a 3k fine. Even with the recent increase in price with vegi oil in mainstream super markets it still works out at about 2.50 a gallon cheaper than the average price of Diesel.

You ever tried that?

mikemac

eringobragh wrote: »

AFAIK The possession of Green Diesel carries a mandatory fine of €3,000

It was €2,000 afaik a few years back, possibly it’s increased.
Taken very seriously by customs, you definitely don’t want to be caught doing this.

I don’t think it’ll do any harm at all. Normal diesel is also called White Diesal by some. So White, Red and Green are all the exact same, it’s just that two have them have dye

maidhc

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

He would have been better off going down the road and purchasing a few bottles of vegi oil and pouring it straight into the tank, at least he is not risking a criminal conviction and a 3k fine. Even with the recent increase in price with vegi oil in mainstream super markets it still works out at about 2.50 a gallon cheaper than the average price of Diesel.

No that would be really slow, and burning veggie oil is as illegal as green diesel anyway.

macnab

maidhc wrote: »

No that would be really slow, and burning veggie oil is as illegal as green diesel anyway.

I dont think you are correct, you have to pay the Revenue some tax if you use veggy oil.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055291538

Run_to_da_hills

craichoe wrote: »

Without knowing what type of engine it is that would be very stupid, could make absolute sh*t of the fuel pump.

Given the fact that the guy already poured sediment ridden red diesel into his fueltank already I gather that this guy couldn't give 2 sh*ts about his fuel pump to begin with. He is either driving an old banger or else a company car.

maidhc wrote: »

No that would be really slow, and burning veggie oil is as illegal as green diesel anyway.

They have yet to clamp down on it and it will only be a matter of time before supermarket veggie oil will be rationed to one or two bottles per person. In the UK you are allowed a certain amount tax free. The only reason it would be illegal here is that there is no vat on food products, if it is bought for food and then used as fuel it would be dodging tax. I have yet to hear of anyone being pulled for it, many fuel kits are available for converting used chipper oil.

It can be used quiet effectivly on a long run on with no less than a 30% Diesel mix. It is not advisable to use it in the winter unless you fit a preheated kit because veggie oil can solidify inside the pump if the engine is cold. I would not recommend using it without proper research if one has a common rail fuel pump (As with most post 02 cars and vans.)

cavanmaniac

Just for anyone considering going green to save a few bob on the bendoverandtakeit prices at the pumps, I heard a few horror stories of engine damage from people using green and thinking it was the same as normal diesel. Don't know the science, but apparently it's not the same at all.

A few warranties invalidated as a result as well. Just a word to the wise...

Run_to_da_hills

cavanmaniac wrote: »

Just for anyone considering going green to save a few bob on the bendoverandtakeit prices at the pumps, I heard a few horror stories of engine damage from people using green and thinking it was the same as normal diesel. Don't know the science, but apparently it's not the same at all.

A few warranties invalidated as a result as well. Just a word to the wise...

Most of the fuel pumps that suffer severe damage from irregular fuel and water / petrol contamination are of the common rail type, a pump design by Fiat, (What would one expect!). These pumps are of high pressure design and are super sensative. Five to ten miles on one of these pumps using dodgy fuel or petrol contamination would be enough to cause thousands of euros worth of damage.

macnab

cavanmaniac wrote: »

Just for anyone considering going green to save a few bob on the bendoverandtakeit prices at the pumps, I heard a few horror stories of engine damage from people using green and thinking it was the same as normal diesel. Don't know the science, but apparently it's not the same at all.

A few warranties invalidated as a result as well. Just a word to the wise...

All Diesel comes into this country in tankers as "distillate" the only difference between road diesel and Agri diesel is a green Dye additive, which is 90% diesel. I would say what you are referring to is washed Agri diesel, where a chemical process using acid among other things is used to remove the Dye. Unfortunately it also removes a lot of the lubricant also and remains acidic and so is very very bad for fuel pumps. Swings and roundabouts, avoid at all costs.

bennyc

dont come up to Sligo if you have red diesel the customs have been out twice in the last two weeks down my way

Run_to_da_hills

macnab wrote: »

avoid at all costs.

Also avoid any "legit" diesel from back street filling stations particularly down the country and in border areas. If you are purchasing it may be worth while carrying some litmus paper and test it for acid contamination. Many of these fuel stations couldn't care where their supply comes from aslong as its cheap and wouldnt' think twice from buying from rogue suppliers.

macnab

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Also avoid any "legit" diesel from back street filling stations particularly down the country and in border areas. If you are purchasing it may be worth while carrying some litmus paper and test it for acid contamination. Many of these fuel stations couldn't care where their supply comes from aslong as its cheap and wouldnt' think twice from buying from rogue suppliers.

Yeah, you have to be careful there alright. I used to run a petrol station and there was always guys from the north offering me "Great Deals" on diesel, I asked why not petrol as well and they didnt have a good answer. I asked was it laundered and they swore (on their familys) "No" I asked why was it so cheap then and they said it was VAT free, yeah right. They told me they could deliver with any Brand name I wanted on the truck. In 3 years my stock was only sampled once, that in my eyes as a consumer is lame.

craichoe

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Given the fact that the guy already poured sediment ridden red diesel into his fueltank already I gather that this guy couldn't give 2 sh*ts about his fuel pump to begin with. He is either driving an old banger or else a company car.

Nah, i think he just wasnt aware it would do any harm.

Also, its not really a 'fact' if we don't know it was sediment ridden red diesel .. is it ..

Run_to_da_hills

craichoe wrote: »

Nah, i think he just wasnt aware it would do any harm.

Also, its not really a 'fact' if we don't know it was sediment ridden red diesel .. is it ..

Any red diesel found in the republic would be more than a good few years old as this country went green. (Unless it was purchased in the North) The guy probably had it lying about in an old watering can in a shed or drained it from an obsolete track machine.

siralfalot

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most of the fuel pumps that suffer severe damage from irregular fuel and water / petrol contamination are of the common rail type, a pump design by Fiat, (What would one expect!). These pumps are of high pressure design and are super sensative. Five to ten miles on one of these pumps using dodgy fuel or petrol contamination would be enough to cause thousands of euros worth of damage.

so you come up with a better design than common rail then :rolleyes:
even VAG have dumped their rattley old PD TDI in favour of common rail technology

BMW and Fiat are the two best Diesel engines on the market at the moment


about a year ago I wasn't watching what i was at at the pumps and inadvertantly put 16 litres of petrol onto the Alfa, it was then filled to overflowing with diesel, after a few tanks of diesel had been washed through i got the car serviced and the fueling system checked out, it was perfect, and over 20k miles later its still running like a dream

Anan1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Given the fact that the guy already poured sediment ridden red diesel into his fueltank already I gather that this guy couldn't give 2 sh*ts about his fuel pump to begin with. He is either driving an old banger or else a company car.

No offence, but it might be an idea to read the thread before posting.;)

Run_to_da_hills

Anan1 wrote: »

No offence, but it might be an idea to read the thread before posting.;)

I already explained myself, and again, any red diesel that was bought in this country would have been lying around for a good bit. :rolleyes:

siralfalot

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I already explained myself, and again, any red diesel that was bought in this country would have been lying around for a good bit. :rolleyes:

al-007 wrote: »

Well it was agri (tractor) diesel so I assume it was green. Didnt know it changed colour.. Learn something new everyday

G-Money

Are diesel cars more economical to run than petrol cars? - I have no idea. What about now that diesel is more expensive than petrol, are they still cheaper to run?

DublinWriter

ClioV6 wrote: »

Well with the price of Diesel..

Hmmmm.....3K? I likes those odds!

Seriously, AFAIK, as well as the dye, there's also a trace chemical put in that can seriously damage an engine in the long term.

ianobrien

I spent some time working in a Lab in an Oil refinery, and the differences between green diesel and "pump" diesel is the Sulphur levels.

All Road Diesel that you buy at the pumps is supposed to have a sulphur level below 50ppm (parts per million). It's often called "low Sulphur" or "City Diesel". The level was set to reduce acid rain. To get the sulphur level down to that value, the sulphur has to be removed by scrubbers (bloody expensive - An aside, that is one of the main reasons for diesel prices being so high, there is such a demand for diesel in Asia & China that don't have low sulphur requirements. So, manufacturers are switching to that diesel as it's cheaper to make!)

Green Diesel has no sulphur limits, as it's not to be used on the road. Typical values (from memory) are up around 300 to 500ppm. So, when customs take a sample of diesel, if the diesel is washed (no colour), they measure the sulphur content. If it's above 50ppm, it's green diesel.

Both have very similar viscosity, boiling points, density, flash points (1 or 2 degrees difference) so burning them in an old engine makes no difference (I'm not sure about the dye and common rail pumps). I know it's the acid wash in laundered diesel messes up the common rail pumps, and that's where the problem with the wallet lies...