BMW 320d or Lexus 220d ?????

Gandalf23

I've decided to buy myself a new motor this coming August/September.

I've narrowed my choice to either the BMW 320d or the Lexus 220d. I'm not buying new ... I'm aiming for 2006/07 with about 50km on the clock.

I've test driven both cars (again) as recently as this morning, and I'm still undecided.

So, does anyone have any opinions/experience on either of these cars?

Soarer

Having never driven either, I'd plum for the Lexus.
I just think they stand out from the crowd.

*whistle* Here E92. Come and explain the virtues of the 320d. Good boy. :D

Hornswoggle

Don't get me wrong, the 320D is a lovely car, but they're really common and dont come with as much standard kit as the 220D.

Personally i'd go for the 220D, beautiful looking car, strong residuals and far better reliability.

A word of advice if your thinking of opting for the Beemer though - used 3 series prices are going to fall in the months following July 1st. BMW Ireland have released their revised July prices, and the new price list shows huge savings for new car buyers. For example, the 318i ES Saloon will drop €4,484 off its current price, while the 318d ES Saloon will cost €38,206, down €6,594!

At present, a 2007 318d ES is making €38,995 on the used car market, however that residual value is likely to fall by at least 4 or 5K post July 1st as new models will be available cheaper. This in turn, will push prices down on the majority of used 3 series for sale, particularly those on 05, 06 and 07 plates.

Victor_M

Soarer wrote: »

Having never driven either, I'd plum for the Lexus.
I just think they stand out from the crowd.

*whistle* Here E92. Come and explain the virtues of the 320d. Good boy. :D

E92 will probably have something a little more useful to contribute than you do!

Maybe we should ban anyone with anything positive/useful to say and leave the place to the likes of you Soarer.

Victor_M

Gandalf23 wrote: »

I've decided to buy myself a new motor this coming August/September.

I've narrowed my choice to either the BMW 320d or the Lexus 220d. I'm not buying new ... I'm aiming for 2006/07 with about 50km on the clock.

I've test driven both cars (again) as recently as this morning, and I'm still undecided.

So, does anyone have any opinions/experience on either of these cars?

Given the crazy prices diesel have now reached would you consider the petrol versions of either car? How many Km's a year do you drive, there was a thread on here recently about the merits for the slightly less efficient cheaper to buy/fuel petrol versus the more expensive intitial outlay/higher diesel costs albeit with better economy, so depending on your mileage in many cases the petrol is the more economical option.

Between the cars, i have only driven the 320D nice drive, handles well but the current shape 3 Series is very dependent on wheels/colour to look good & extras can be thin on the ground in some of the cheaper models, where as the Lexus seems to be loaded to the gills with standard equipment.

I personally think the Lexus is a nicer car to look at on the outside and the BMW is a nicer place be on the inside, I'm not into the Japanese matt black plastic dashboards's myself.

If I had to choose I'd pick the more enjoyable car to drive as first deciding factor, looks second and toys thirdly.

Stevie Dakota

Victor_M wrote: »

E92 will probably have something a little more useful to contribute than you do!

+1

Gandalf23

Soarer wrote: »

Having never driven either, I'd plum for the Lexus.
I just think they stand out from the crowd.

*whistle* Here E92. Come and explain the virtues of the 320d. Good boy. :D

Victor_M wrote: »

E92 will probably have something a little more useful to contribute than you do!

Maybe we should ban anyone with anything positive/useful to say and leave the place to the likes of you Soarer.

Thanks for the replies guys ... keep em coming!

E92 has been a fantastic contributor to this site and I'm hoping he will add his advice to this thread. Dont slag him off till you have contributed as much please.

I'm fairly well up on the post July VRT changes ... I'm buying in September probably (and might even wait til Jan 2009).

And (after a few hours thought) I'm beginning to lean towards the Lexus ...

Gandalf23

Victor_M wrote: »

Given the crazy prices diesel have now reached would you consider the petrol versions of either car? How many Km's a year do you drive, there was a thread on here recently about the merits for the slightly less efficient cheaper to buy/fuel petrol versus the more expensive intitial outlay/higher diesel costs albeit with better economy, so depending on your mileage in many cases the petrol is the more economical option.

Between the cars, i have only driven the 320D nice drive, handles well but the current shape 3 Series is very dependent on wheels/colour to look good & extras can be thin on the ground in some of the cheaper models, where as the Lexus seems to be loaded to the gills with standard equipment.

I personally think the Lexus is a nicer car to look at on the outside and the BMW is a nicer place be on the inside, I'm not into the Japanese matt black plastic dashboards's myself.

If I had to choose I'd pick the more enjoyable car to drive as first deciding factor, looks second and toys thirdly.

Excellent reply ... thanks.

I would consider petrol.

I'm driving approximately 50km per year.

Just interested in your comment about the BMW ... what combination of wheels/colour/extras do you think looks best?

I have a budget of about €25-27k btw

Victor_M

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Excellent reply ... thanks.

I would consider petrol.

I'm driving approximately 50km per year.

Just interested in your comment about the BMW ... what combination of wheels/colour/extras do you think looks best?

I have a budget of about €25-27k btw

Something like This price is out of your budget just an example.

Too many black with standard wheels about the place. Some nice blue colours available or the graphite gray is nice too, with a set of 17 or 18" alloys (make sure to test drive though as the ride comfort will suffer a bit with the bigger wheels).
MPack is down to personal taste, I personally like the look of the Mpack, but would opt for a more powerful engine if I had to choose between 2 at the same price. Too many 316's with mpacks going around where the money for the mpack would be much better spent on the engine.

Soarer

Christ, I thought we could have a bit of banter on here as well as giving advice. Didn't realise everyone was so touchy.

It was a pisstake on my part, and I thought a fairly obvious one.

For what it's worth OP, I gave my opinion in my first reply. Got overlooked though with all the high horses around.:rolleyes:

Gandalf23

Soarer wrote: »

Christ, I thought we could have a bit of banter on here as well as giving advice. Didn't realise everyone was so touchy.

It was a pisstake on my part, and I thought a fairly obvious one.

For what it's worth OP, I gave my opinion in my first reply. Got overlooked though with all the high horses around.:rolleyes:

Despite the fact that;
(a) you have never driven either car,
(b) you dont have anything specific to say about either car, and
(c) you took a pop at a valued and excellent contributor to the motors forum,

I still thank you for your contribution

Now can I ask you not to derail this thread with any more comments about E92 or "high horses" please?

Many thanks

G-Money

Interesting thread. I had never considered a BMW until recently as I seen one on a dealers website that I really liked. However it's sold now so I guess I won't be buying anytime soon. It was a 320D SE I think, 2006 with 50,000 miles on it. I don't know what it sold for though, as soon as I heard it was gone I lost interest.

Regarding the VRT, I checked that out as I'm in the north and was interested to see how much it would cost to import. After July 1st the VRT would have dropped by approximately 3000 euro. That would pay for the insurance for about 2-3 years

Soarer

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Despite the fact that;
(a) you have never driven either car,
(b) you dont have anything specific to say about either car, and
(c) you took a pop at a valued and excellent contributor to the motors forum,

I still thank you for your contribution

Now can I ask you not to derail this thread with any more comments about E92 or "high horses" please?

Many thanks

Maybe you should look into getting a high horse? I hear there's great all round visibility!

But back on topic, and to defend myself a little:
(a) You asked for an opinion on either car, and I gave you my opinion. If you'd have asked for "only people that have driven either car", I'd not have posted anything.
(b) Yes I did. I said I'd plum for the Lexus as I think they stand out from the crowd. If you'd like me to clarify: I think the 320d is common as muck, and although it's a great car by all accounts, I reckon the IS220d is just as good but stands out from the crowd more.
(c) I wasn't having a pop. It was just a bit of banter. If I was having a go at E92, or had any reason to have a go at him, I'd have started my own thread!

Anyway, sorry your thread got a bit sidetracked over me. You're in a nice position to be able to choose between those cars. If it was me and my money, I'd get the Lexus.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

I wasn't having a pop. It was just a bit of banter

Fair enough, but I don't want you showing up on my TrolloMeter for the next while

btkm8unsl0w5r4

As a huge BMW fan I still have to say I would plug for the lexus. My partner has a e90 and I have a e92. The e92 looks good while the e90 while not unattractive is a bit dull. I agree that the wheels are really important and big one look much better. Silver one are particular dull. They drive really well though, RWD is real boost. The 20d engine is really a winner, economical and powerful. The lexus looks really nice, almost coupe ish. The engines are not quite as good and the drive is FWD and a bit less refined. not as economical either (marginally).

So do you want a German car or a Toyota...he he I am biased. The badge will cost you but people always want the prestige brands.

bazz26

Eliza Skinny Looter wrote: »

As a huge BMW fan I still have to say I would plug for the lexus. My partner has a e90 and I have a e92. The e92 looks good while the e90 while not unattractive is a bit dull. I agree that the wheels are really important and big one look much better. Silver one are particular dull. They drive really well though, RWD is real boost. The 20d engine is really a winner, economical and powerful. The lexus looks really nice, almost coupe ish. The engines are not quite as good and the drive is FWD and a bit less refined. not as economical either (marginally).

So do you want a German car or a Toyota...he he I am biased. The badge will cost you but people always want the prestige brands.

IS220 is RWD like the previous model afaik.

cancan

With an impending recession buy the lexus - you won't have to remortgage the house to repair it when it goes wrong, and people won't think you are a photocopier salesman.

E92

Didn't realise I've been causing such a stir in my almost 3 day absence:)!

But since I've driven neither, it wouldn't be fair to say which is in fact better, but the E90 is a very good car to be a passenger in at any rate. I have no experience whatsoever of the Lexus, but it does leave me a bit cold looks and interior wise.

The 320d engine I've driven(in the 520d)...it's very good for a diesel(it certainly doesn't suit the 5 series but in the smaller and lighter 3 series it should be well able for that car), which is a bit like saying that Ireland losing to Germany 0-1 in Soccer is very good.

JHMEG

I doubt the people slagging off the interior of the IS ever been in one. It's a very high quality place to be in, and the dash clocks are like looking at masterpriece Swiss watches. Add in great spec levels and optional stuff like a 14-speaker Mark Levinson sound system and it's a tough act to follow.

Cyrus

ive been in one, certainly didnt look down at my swiss watch and think hmmm this looks familiar.



the engine isnt particularily refined, rear leg space is terrible, driving position is quite high. you get loads of standard kit but the interior still isnt of the same quality as a bmw or audi,

and someone was making a comment about looking like a photocopier salesman in the 320. what will you like in the lexus when all the japanese special editions start to be driven by the skangers

cancan

It's not supposed to look like a swatch

Cyrus

cancan wrote: »

It's not supposed to look like a swatch

exactly

oh and if swatches are your idea of a swiss watch

btkm8unsl0w5r4

bazz26 wrote: »

IS220 is RWD like the previous model afaik.

My mistake....didn't realize Toyota did rdw...good for them

colm_mcm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Is that the interior of the new model? If so its taken a step down from the last model. My mate has the IS220 Sport and it I had a quick go in it. Very nice sound from the engine and the dash looks great. Plus it has the ferrari style gearstick!

If it had paddle gearshift (auto), then it's an IS250

bazz26

Lads since when was the overall measure of a car decided by the quality of the plastics in the cabin or what corner of Germany it is from?

It seems to be a common theme in these parts lately. We are starting to sound like some of them over on octane.ie :pac:

cancan

Cyrus wrote: »

exactly

oh and if swatches are your idea of a swiss watch

Well a 320d is not my idea of a proper BMW, so I could only assume your taste in watches mirrored your taste in cars:)

And baz, leave octane out of it, and be glad that you have a place you can discuss the relative merits of 2 boring diesels that an aspiring sales reps get stiffies over.

Cyrus

Er i made a choice between a 320d and the is, its marginal but i'd go for the bmw. But i never said that a 320d would be a personal choice, quite the opposite in fact

cancan wrote: »

Well a 320d is not my idea of a proper BMW, so I could only assume your taste in watches mirrored your taste in cars:)

And baz, leave octane out of it, and be glad that you have a place you can discuss the relative merits of 2 boring diesels that an aspiring sales reps get stiffies over.

pburns

Isn't the engine in the IS220D regarded as hugely inferior to the Bimmer unit? I remember it being praised in the Avensis but supposedly not up to the same levels of refinement and drivability for a car in the next class up?

I think pre-July 08 diesels, esp biggish 07s are gonna drop like a stone value-wise though. With the new tax bands making it massively cheaper to both buy and tax a 08 car (AFAIK a IS220D will be €827 a year in the old system!) they'll be VERY unattractive alongside newer, low-polluting diesels like the 320D.

So even though I think the Lexus is the nicer, more distinctive-looking choice I'd avoid like the plague...

bazz26

cancan wrote: »

And baz, leave octane out of it, and be glad that you have a place you can discuss the relative merits of 2 boring diesels that an aspiring sales reps get stiffies over.

Thanks. There is so many nice things said of this forum over there that I thought I would return the favor.

Anyway back on topic.

JHMEG

bazz26 wrote: »

Lads since when was the overall measure of a car decided by the quality of the plastics in the cabin or what corner of Germany it is from?

It seems to be a common theme in these parts lately. We are starting to sound like some of them over on octane.ie :pac:

Quality of cabin plastics is important to lots of users on this forum. Half this thread is about cabin plastics.:rolleyes:

Cyrus

well if its looking to compete in a sector dominated by audi and bmw cabin plastics are important, as is engine refinement.

whats ok in an avensis isnt ok in a lexus

alpina

I own one & good friend bought the other so have driven both;

IMO Lexus is a better looking car, maybe because they are not as common/popular as the BMW. Lexus lacks the over space of the BMW especially noticeable for rear passengers and clubs/shopping. To drive I like both however would have to hand it to the BMW on outright punch & driveability & unfortunately no auto box in the 220d

320d;
174bhp~143 top speed~0-60 7.9~Co2 128~Fr. legroom 1120mm R.LR 900 Boot 460L

220d;
175bhp~134 top speed~0-60 8.9~Co2 169~Fr.legroom 1090mm R.LR 825 Boot 378L

Gandalf23

Thanks very much lads ... some excellent comments and suggestions.

@ alpina ... good stuff man, thanks for that. As someone who has driven both you would definitely go with the BMW then?

@pburns ... why is the 220d engine considered inferior to the 320d? And why would you avoid the Lexus like the plague? Is it just because of the depreciation? And why do you think depreciation will be higher than the BMW?

@E92 ... is it the same engine in the 320d and the 520d?

Thanks again lads ... I really appreciate the help and advice.

Cyrus

Gandalf23 wrote: »

Thanks very much lads ... some excellent comments and suggestions.

@ alpina ... good stuff man, thanks for that. As someone who has driven both you would definitely go with the BMW then?

@pburns ... why is the 220d engine considered inferior to the 320d? And why would you avoid the Lexus like the plague? Is it just because of the depreciation? And why do you think depreciation will be higher than the BMW?

@E92 ... is it the same engine in the 320d and the 520d?

Thanks again lads ... I really appreciate the help and advice.

the answer to the engines inferiority is in the post just above

320d;
174bhp~143 top speed~0-60 7.9~Co2 128

220d;
175bhp~134 top speed~0-60 8.9~Co2 169

finbarrk

I asked a similar question in January,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055210681&highlight=bmw+320d+lexusis220d&page=3

I still didn't buy either because I'm having difficulty selling my own car.
The motor tax proposals in that thread have since changed.

Gandalf23

finbarrk wrote: »

I asked a similar question in January,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055210681&highlight=bmw+320d+lexusis220d&page=3

I still didn't buy either because I'm having difficulty selling my own car.
The motor tax proposals in that thread have since changed.

Thanks ... just read the entire thread. Looks like the BMW comes out well on top ... man, this is a hard decision ... I must have changed my mind about 100 times over the last few days!

Cyrus

look, the bmw is basically a better car, but if you prefer the lexus you will be happier with it so go for the one you want, neither are a bad car

Gandalf23

Cyrus wrote: »

look, the bmw is basically a better car, but if you prefer the lexus you will be happier with it so go for the one you want, neither are a bad car

Yeah, you are right.

I'm not making the decision for a few months yet, so I'll keep listening to opinions and do another test drive or two. Like a few people said, its a nice decision to be able to make

Cyrus

good idea, see if you can blag either for a weekend or extended test drive

ive read that the is250 auto is much better than the manual is220

Gandalf23

Cyrus wrote: »

good idea, see if you can blag either for a weekend or extended test drive

ive read that the is250 auto is much better than the manual is220

Good idea ... I might do that! Do garages let you have extended test drives?

CyberGhost

This should answer your question

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=44_ko9nLQO8

Fifth's Gear's IS220d review, and they are comparing it to 320d.

Cyrus

bit of an odd comparison that doesnt feature the other car

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

Isn't the engine in the IS220D regarded as hugely inferior to the Bimmer unit?

According to that review it's "torquier and more refined"...

copacetic

been looking at this too cyrus, my final opinion was to wait and see what happens with tax, facelift for 3er and second hand market for a few months.

For what it is worth I thought the IS was better value for money and is much better looking and better specd. Will hold it's value better as is more reliable and less common, bmw was much better to drive and engine was much nicer imo.

With the facelift coming in October for 3er would be a concern how it will hit values.

copacetic

JHMEG wrote: »

According to that review it's "torquier and more refined"...

every other review I have ever seen has said the gearing and engine on the IS was poor compared to audi, bmw or merc.

Cyrus

according to every other review its not and its slower and pollutes more, and makes the rear view mirror shake etc etc

pburns

Gandalf23 wrote: »

@pburns ... why is the 220d engine considered inferior to the 320d? And why would you avoid the Lexus like the plague? Is it just because of the depreciation? And why do you think depreciation will be higher than the BMW?

The question as to why the IS220d engine is inferior to the BMW has been answered I think. On pure stats alone the Lexus is very much 2nd best.

As to depreciation - Just say you pay the monies for a nice '07 IS220. It will forever be taxed based on CC. That's €827:eek: a year in comparison, say, to a 08 320d which will be around €290:) per annum. For a s/h buyer a few years down the road, that'll make a BIG difference in my book and is gonna have an undoubted knock-on in re-sale. Especially as, even now, the Lexus is not exactly the default choice...

Of course if you can use this as an effective bargaining tool so much the better.

Gandalf23

copacetic wrote: »

been looking at this too cyrus, my final opinion was to wait and see what happens with tax, facelift for 3er and second hand market for a few months.

For what it is worth I thought the IS was better value for money and is much better looking and better specd. Will hold it's value better as is more reliable and less common, bmw was much better to drive and engine was much nicer imo.

With the facelift coming in October for 3er would be a concern how it will hit values.

BMW salesman told me yesterday that the Otober 3series facelift would be "very minor" and purely cosmetic. Is this likely to effect 2nd hand values?

copacetic

Gandalf23 wrote: »

BMW salesman told me yesterday that the Otober 3series facelift would be "very minor" and purely cosmetic. Is this likely to effect 2nd hand values?

well, it will look significantly different from front and back. they are sorting out the silly front grille
and the funny looking lights. it will look like coupe from front and have the nicer notch lights at rear.
either way, i'm not sure how anyone could call in very minor.

Cyrus

Gandalf23 wrote: »

BMW salesman told me yesterday that the Otober 3series facelift would be "very minor" and purely cosmetic. Is this likely to effect 2nd hand values?

yep facelifts always command a little more, id hold out for one

alpina

Hype pictures aside, the facelift is meant to be minor, as far as I know within the wolrdcarfans article it states that the mule/test car has exaggerated mouldings so would not expect a much beefier front end, there will be changes but think on the subtle side. All this said however, buyers are fickle and with €30k+ who can blame them, anything you buy before the fall is going to be considered last model before you even get your plates and this is proven in the 'edition' spec, BMW need to shift a sh*t load now & quick.
If it's the engine you love & intend keeping who cares & edition spec is great value, if you change every couple of years, stay away until '09

Happy hunting/coin tossing;)