New L/Provisonal Drivers Rule/ Law

madbaz

I was told this new rule that provisonal licence holders have to be accompanied by an expereinced driver was coming in soon... When is it coming in? is it in today? what date exactly does anybody know?

Nephew

It has actually been in place for years unless you're on your second provisional. I think the new rule changes are coming in on July 1st.

DublinDilbert

All the info is here:- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055176756

conormob

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

TestTransmission

Provisional drivers had plenty of time to get driving lessons and do a test,its nobodys fault but their own

Spud83

conormob wrote: »

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

These new laws only affect people on second provisional’s meaning they have help a provisional licence for at least two years. So if driving was so important to them they really should have sat the test.

Also these new laws were released 8 months ago, meaning that everybody has been given eight months to get a full licence. Again if a licence was that important to people they have had time to get it sorted. Anybody complaining about needing a licence for work or whatever has no excuse any more. They have been given plenty of time to get it sorted.

The reason the laws weren’t enforced fully before for first provisional holders and such is because the wait time for tests was ridiculously long and if the gardai did charge them the prosecuted normally ended up arguing there way out of it in court. This will no longer be possible with test times being reduced dramatically.

bbam

conormob wrote: »

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

We have to draw a line in the sand sometime, people had plenty of notice to either get their test done or continue to chance their arm...

What would be a disaster now is another last minute climbdown on this issue.. We are the only European country where if you failyour test you can jump in your car and drive away :eek:.

People need to pass their test or put up with the consequences....

I'm hoping for a big push on this next week !!

eringobragh

conormob wrote: »

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

A disaster?? About time more like!.. a disaster is a 17 year old (or any age for that matter!) that has to do a simple theory test (including no lessons:eek:) and can go around and drive a lethal weapon without a clue in the world how to operate it.

About fugging time this was bought in.

X2 to all the above... you had the guts of 8 months to sort this out if you'd any interest in passing your test you'd have your licence now.

As for work & college , etc : Get the Bus / Train / Taxi / Lift / Cycle / Walk / Run / Jog / Rollerblade / Skateboard / Drive with a Fully Licenced Driver / Buy a Moped.

I can only hope the Guards DO enforce this strictly.

craichoe

conormob wrote: »

I think this is a disaster for the country if the Government and the Gards enforce the laws we have now instead of making new ones we wouldnt be in this situation this law will also be a diadvantage as their plan is to take all provisional licence holders off the road how are people to get to work and college this has got to be stoped unemployment levels will increase also the R.S.A are a pack of idiots who get driven around everyplace Disaster:mad:

You had plenty of time to get your license, bout time its inforced imo

Get used to cycling i guess

bbam

This would make a good poll....
"Do you agree with the new provisional lisence law enforcment"

I bet most folks are fed up with this crap going on and on...

ninty9er

bbam wrote: »

This would make a good poll....
"Do you agree with the new provisional lisence law enforcment"

I bet most folks are fed up with this crap going on and on...

I bet most folks would prefer people actually passed a driving test or got the fuck off the road.

Let's have the poll!!!

Anan1

ninty9er wrote: »

I bet most folks would prefer people actually passed a driving test or got the fuck off the road.

L1011

Anyone I know who was capable of passing a test and got off their arse and applied for one has got it and passed since the new rules were brought in.

Those that have not are either not yet ready to pass the test or are just lazy. Simple as. The RSA is still offering a test before the end of the month to anyone that wants it.

bbam

ninty9er wrote: »

I bet most folks would prefer people actually passed a driving test or got the fuck off the road.

Let's have the poll!!!

To be honest the lisence/test issue is only part of the problem... We'll never solve the problems with fatal accidents on the roads if the laws are not enforced...

We've had a previous stand-down or "yellow streak" over this... It's time to see some action which might help...

Standing under a tree with a hand held gatso at 5pm in the evening at the edge of town isn't making a difference, thats a revenue generator... Lets see them tackle some of the more difficult to enforce laws that will hopefully make a difference...

DarkJager

Has anybody got a contact number where I can enquire about this "test before the end of the month"? I'm now waiting 2 months and still have no date. Also crossing fingers that its SGS this time. My last experience with the RSA (1st test), may result in one of their testers being ejected through the passenger door at 100kmph if I get them again.

L1011

Phone the number on the confirmation letter you got - 1890 40 60 40 should work also...

cashmni1

I agree, and we should not blame the Guards for the revenue collecting because they are doing what they are told. The Blame has to be laid at the door of the RSA, more importantly, Gay (nobber) Byrne. Somebody get him to quit please.....oh please?

kmart6

DarkJager wrote: »

Has anybody got a contact number where I can enquire about this "test before the end of the month"? I'm now waiting 2 months and still have no date. Also crossing fingers that its SGS this time. My last experience with the RSA (1st test), may result in one of their testers being ejected through the passenger door at 100kmph if I get them again.

Well if you wanna pass this time it'd be a good idea not to be doing 100kph!:rolleyes:

DarkJager

kmart6 wrote: »

Well if you wanna pass this time it'd be a good idea not to be doing 100kph!:rolleyes:

Not being cocky about it, but I should pass this time as long as I don't get another tester who lives in his own fantasy world...

Spud83

DarkJager wrote: »

Not being cocky about it, but I should pass this time as long as I don't get another tester who lives in his own fantasy world...

Any chance you feel like detailing exactly what you failed on?

whippet

DarkJager wrote: »

Not being cocky about it, but I should pass this time as long as I don't get another tester who lives in his own fantasy world...

it's amazing the amount of people who only failed due to the incompetance of the examiner!

L1011

kmart6 wrote: »

Well if you wanna pass this time it'd be a good idea not to be doing 100kph!:rolleyes:

One of the test requirements for a Cat B licence is that your car *must* be capable of doing 100kmh! If you're on an N-road during the test at all, theres nothing wrong with doing that speed.

Any test centre near a dualler seems to be bringing people on to them, know people who've ended on the N4, N7 and N81, but all at 80kmh sections. Dunno where people could end up on a 100kmh section.

DarkJager

I'll happily summarise it and maybe you can all tell me where the problem lies. To start with, the grading sheet had no marks, except 1 Grade 3 fail which caused me not to pass the test. Now this grade 3 was suspiciously enough for "Observation" during the 3 point turn. This is exactly what happened:

I come to a cul de sac which has no houses and an 8ft brick wall cordoning it off from the next street. Tester asks me to perform a 3 point turn. I check all mirrors, check the back window, and complete the first part. Check the mirrors, check the back window and perform the reverse manuever. Check the mirrors, quick glance through back window and position the car in the final part of the turn. All ok, I'm asked to drive on.

When I get back to the test centre, I'm quite happy, mainly that I managed to do the reverse around the corner without any problems (it was one area I had difficulty getting right during the lessons). I then get told that I have failed the test due to an observation fault. I ask him where this fault occured, and he says the 3 point turn. His explanation is that during the final section of the turn, I did not look out the back window enough and there could have been kids or cars coming from behind me.

Now I've never heard about this amazing ability children and cars have gained, to appear or travel through an 8 foot brick wall into an empty cul de sac. Have you? Doesn't seem very fair to waste my 40 euros because of an out of touch with reality tester does it?

Spud83

DarkJager wrote: »

I'll happily summarise it and maybe you can all tell me where the problem lies. To start with, the grading sheet had no marks, except 1 Grade 3 fail which caused me not to pass the test. Now this grade 3 was suspiciously enough for "Observation" during the 3 point turn. This is exactly what happened:

I come to a cul de sac which has no houses and an 8ft brick wall cordoning it off from the next street. Tester asks me to perform a 3 point turn. I check all mirrors, check the back window, and complete the first part. Check the mirrors, check the back window and perform the reverse manuever. Check the mirrors, quick glance through back window and position the car in the final part of the turn. All ok, I'm asked to drive on.

When I get back to the test centre, I'm quite happy, mainly that I managed to do the reverse around the corner without any problems (it was one area I had difficulty getting right during the lessons). I then get told that I have failed the test due to an observation fault. I ask him where this fault occured, and he says the 3 point turn. His explanation is that during the final section of the turn, I did not look out the back window enough and there could have been kids or cars coming from behind me.

Now I've never heard about this amazing ability children and cars have gained, to appear or travel through an 8 foot brick wall into an empty cul de sac.

I'll try but I'm trying to visualise your manovure.

When you were reversing (2nd part) did you continually look out your back window? As I believe you are supposed to, or did you reverse while looking straight ahead or in your mirrors? You mention during the final section of your turn is where the fault occured for not looking out your back window enough but in the final part aren't you driving forwards.

Note: It doesn’t matter if an 8 foot brick wall was behind you the same procedure should be followed.

Climate Expert

I sympathise with you.

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

Biro

Climate Expert wrote: »

I sympathise with you.

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

It's not a question, it's an ability or attitude. If you understand maths and remember all formula's but can't add, then there's a fundamental flaw in your maths abilities.
Similarly, if you're driving and aren't observant enough then there's a fundamental flaw in your driving.

Anan1

Climate Expert wrote: »

I sympathise with you.

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

You would if the wrong answer could kill someone.

Alanstrainor

Climate Expert wrote: »

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

The two do not compare in any way. The driving test is there to see if you are safe and competent behind the wheel. That 5% is all it takes for you to seriously injure or kill someone. This is why the marks against you are graded in severity, grade 1 being a minor fault and will not affect your result. A grade 2 being more serious and 9 or more of which will result in a fail. And grade 3 being the most serious and one of which will result in a fail.

Anan1

DarkJager - Without meaning to be an arse about it, i'd be a lot more worried about the fact that you still think it's OK to reverse without looking where you're going than about your having done it in the test. We all make mistakes, but we only improve when we see our mistakes.

Climate Expert

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The two do not compare in any way. The driving test is there to see if you are safe and competent behind the wheel. That 5% is all it takes for you to seriously injure or kill someone. This is why the marks against you are graded in severity, grade 1 being a minor fault and will not affect your result. A grade 2 being more serious and 9 or more of which will result in a fail. And grade 3 being the most serious and one of which will result in a fail.

Thats the excuse they would use for what is a bull**** test. Statistically full licenced drivers are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ireland. That was reported about a year or two ago.

Beta Ray Bill

On top of all the time people have had to pass their tests, we have had CRAP testers

3 of my friends passed their test after hitting the Curb hard while doing the turnabout

another went up on the curb while reversing around a corner

all 4 passed

UNBELIEVABLE!

Anan1

Climate Expert wrote: »

Thats the excuse they would use for what is a bull**** test. Statistically full licenced drivers are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ireland. That was reported about a year or two ago.

Per Km travelled?

ninty9er

Climate Expert wrote: »

Thats the excuse they would use for what is a bull**** test. Statistically full licenced drivers are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ireland. That was reported about a year or two ago.

Obviously, if there are more of them then more will be involved in accidents:rolleyes:

dloob

I see in a report today that 20,000 drivers are on their sixth or later provisional.
They really have no excuse and should be off the road.

knifey_spoonie

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

bigpinkelephant

You know what I was half-thinking?

Since this problem is so widespread- learners driving unaccompanied day in day out- the Guards should get some sort of bonus to catch them. Even maybe €5 for each one- if a Guard had a checkpoint for even 45 minutes he would have made a fortune! This might not go down too well because I know a lot of people don't like the Guards..

Around where I lived during my J1 in America, the bouncers got a bonus for every fake I.D. they caught. You made sure your fake I.D. was REALLY good over there!

Anan1

knife_fighter wrote: »

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

Learner drivers have to learn, but it's safer for both them and the rest of us if they do so while accompanied by a competent driver. In many countries you can't drive outside of a driving school car until you've passed your test, and with good reason.

kmart6

Well that's it,they would always be keeping you close enough to a centre and woulnd't have you on a 100kph road....and they prob try and avoid them for their own safety incase the person doing the test is actually sh1t at driving:D

ninty9er

knife_fighter wrote: »

What really gets me angry about these new laws is the fact you cant sit a test within six months of getting a permit, they talk about about trying to reduce the number learner drivers on the road,


I myself passed my test after just turing 17 (6 weeks), all they will do is encourage driving alone, with the silly and pointless law

In fairness there's sense behind that. You can't really learn much in 6 weeks unless you spend a 2 hours a week with your instructor...and that's if you ALREADY know the basics. PLus the classroom parts that are coming down the line.

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

L1011

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

I know many people taught by instructors who are woeful, best one being the fact that I don't think there was an instructor out there ten years ago who understood how roundabouts worked...

ADI registration will have stripped out the cowboys, but being taught by an instructor does NOT guarantee that you'll be any better than someone self-taught.

As it goes, I wasn't taught by anyone, ever, did 5 hours of pretests and was told I'd pass after the first hour, spent the remaining 4 mostly talking to the instructor about classic cars! Passed first time...

Spud83

ninty9er wrote: »

In fairness there's sense behind that. You can't really learn much in 6 weeks unless you spend a 2 hours a week with your instructor...and that's if you ALREADY know the basics. PLus the classroom parts that are coming down the line.

I'm glad lessons are now going to be compulsory too as opposed to the bad habit home learning kit.

You see I agree with the compulsory amount of lessons and believe that would be a better system than forcing people to wait six months. Nobody knows how much effort anyone would put in that six months. They may do nothing until the last two weeks, the may take lessons every week who is to know.

If this is only a temporary measure until compulsory lessons come in then fine, otherwise its a bit pointless.

ninty9er

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

You see I agree with the compulsory amount of lessons and believe that would be a better system than forcing people to wait six months. Nobody knows how much effort anyone would put in that six months. They may do nothing until the last two weeks, the may take lessons every week who is to know.

If this is only a temporary measure until compulsory lessons come in then fine, otherwise its a bit pointless.

Compulsory lessons are here as of next Tuesday my friend!

Damien360

MYOB wrote: »

I know many people taught by instructors who are woeful, best one being the fact that I don't think there was an instructor out there ten years ago who understood how roundabouts worked...

To be fair, the roundabout rules appear to change in this country depending on local knowledge. I drive all over the country and see this all the time.

In Cork, the bandon Road roundabout closest to the city, nobody changes lane coming from the bandon road to exit at the 3 o'clock exit.

In mayo, Castlebar, 3 roundabouts in a row and rules change for each. Left lane is not always for going straight.

In galway, city, approach on many roundabouts ok but the one before you get to the millenium bridge roundabout is a free for all. Right lane is used to get to 9 o'clock exit.

There are loads more like that.

To add the thread, the guy on Matt Cooper today form Kerry summed it up. He failed his test in April and promptly got back in to his car and drove home. And he was complaining it was not fair to expect him to have a qualified driver sitting next to him. Typical Ireland doing things backwards.

ninty9er

Damien360 wrote: »

And he was complaining it was not fair to expect him to have a qualified driver sitting next to him.

Why not??

Anywho....on the roundabout issue; it does depend on the setting. Right lane can be straight depending on road markings and how many degrees from the exit you're entering from.

-Chris-

I never drove a car alone before passing my test. I never got put on my dad's insurance or bought a car until I passed.

I did 4/5 months of lessons before my test and passed first time.

I think this is the best way to learn to drive.

I think that it's important to make the driving test more practical and more like real driving, too many people say "well, I failed, but the test isn't realistic. I'm a deadly driver and very safe, but the test doesn't test that, it's not like real driving."

WALOB!

Make the test stricter
Make it more detailed
Make it happen in a greater variety of situations
Make it harder to be a driving instructor
Make it more likely for people to be dropped from a full licence back to a provisional licence - once you pass, it doesn't excuse you from improving or maintaining your standards

Damien360

You fail your test because you are considered unsafe as a driver. You then drive away content that there is no penalty for this. You need a qualified driver to put you straight and get you home safely.

As for roundabouts. I am talking about the many roundabouts with no lane markings and it is local knowledge only applies. Many, although not all, of the roundabouts have one entrance and 3 exits all set at N,S,E,W. The right lane is for 3rd exit only. makes it much safer. Approach to Belfast from M1 a glaring exception to this. I am pretty sure it is in the rules of the road handbook that the left lane is for first and second exits only but I am open to correction.

Damien360

AudiChris wrote: »

Make the test stricter
Make it more detailed
Make it happen in a greater variety of situations
Make it harder to be a driving instructor
Make it more likely for people to be dropped from a full licence back to a provisional licence - once you pass, it doesn't excuse you from improving or maintaining your standards

+1

L1011

AudiChris wrote: »

Make it happen in a greater variety of situations

I agree with this, generally people do their driving test on daytime, non rush hour roads in full light, dry or somewhat wet - not any majorly dangerous conditions. All sorts of stuff just isn't covered due to route problems, in many areas you won't get to go on dual carriageways and in nearly every test centre some of the most obscure things like level crossings, single track bridges, narrow roads aren't covered.

I believe the German test covers a lot more situations like this.

AudiChris wrote: »

Make it harder to be a driving instructor

Has been done, thankfully. ADI registration is now required if doing driving instruction for profit.

DonJose

Climate Expert wrote: »

If you do a maths exam and are in line for 95% you don't instantly fail the exam because of one question.

Same applies to flying a plane, took off perfectly, flew perfectly, lined up for landing perfectly but crashed on landing, damn the last 5%

Ciaran500

ninty9er wrote: »

Compulsory lessons are here as of next Tuesday my friend!

Ehh, source?

-Chris-

MYOB wrote: »

I agree with this, generally people do their driving test on daytime, non rush hour roads in full light, dry or somewhat wet - not any majorly dangerous conditions. All sorts of stuff just isn't covered due to route problems, in many areas you won't get to go on dual carriageways and in nearly every test centre some of the most obscure things like level crossings, single track bridges, narrow roads aren't covered.

I think the single biggest, black-and-white example of the way the test needs to be revamped is that you're not allowed to drive on motorways while you're a learner, you're not tested on motorway driving, and then once you pass, you're magically able to travel at 120kmph in 2 tons of metal, knowing exactly what to do when someone ahead of you brakes heavily in the dark and the rain.


With regards to the roundabouts, the rules of the road don't change from region to region.
Local knowledge will tell you the left lane jams up at rush hour because of the pedestrian crossing, but if you're in the right lane, it's ok to take the left exit because it's got two lanes anyway... and this happens everywhere, btw.
Stricter training and stricter enforcement would result in more consistent driver behavior and the resulting safety improvements.