Let's count electrons.

Capt'n Midnight

There are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 605 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe (and the same number of electrons.)

-Freebird-

...Ok?

KnifeWRENCH

[puts on transylvanian accent]

15 747 724 136 275 002 577 605 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 electrons.....mwah-ha-ha!!

Matt Holck

little fuzzles
crowded puzzles
wrapped around a spinning nucleus
and they straddle probability
and they all look just the same

there are s-shells
there are p-shells
there are d-shells and f-shells
and they all wrap round the nucleus
and they all look just the same

they're electrons
trapped in wave forms
tied in ribbons round the nucleus
and they pair in polar spin states
and they all look just the same

and the shells fill
like an onion peal
growing out to higher orbitals
and they all stack round the nucleus
and they all look just the same

-Freebird-

This is the most pointless thread I've ever come across...

Capt'n Midnight

OMG :eek:

I just realised that CERN have broken some of them :mad:

Let's hope they kept records do they can make amends

carchaeologist

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 605 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe (and the same number of electrons.)

Thats a very big number, how can you be so sure its right....who counted them....and how did they know where to start!!:D

Mint Sauce

have ye's giving up counting to a million

carchaeologist

Electons sound like way more fun!!:D

Matt Holck

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

OMG :eek:

I just realised that CERN have broken some of them :mad:

Let's hope they kept records do they can make amends

records would help

Capt'n Midnight

carchaeologist wrote: »

Thats a very big number, how can you be so sure its right....who counted them....and how did they know where to start!!:D

Sir Arthur Eddington , ok he cheated and worked it out from first principles.
and it's related to the fine structure constant.


Actually if there are less than there were that would explain why the unverse is expanding , less protons , less gravity ..

carchaeologist

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Actually if there are less than there were that would explain why the unverse is expanding , less protons , less gravity ..

Of course, how silly of me to forget,last time i checked the electron is a fundamental subatomic particle that carries a negative electric charge. It is a spin ½ lepton that participates in electromagnetic interactions, and its mass is approximately 1 / 1836 of that of the proton. Together with atomic nuclei, which consist of protons and neutrons, electrons make up atoms. Their interaction with adjacent nuclei is the main cause of chemical bonding....

carchaeologist

To put it in laymans terms....
Electrons have an electric charge of −1.602 × 10−19 C, a mass of 9.11 × 10−31 kg based on charge/mass measurements equivalent to a rest mass of about 0.511 MeV/c². The mass of the electron is approximately 1/1836 of the mass of the proton. The common electron symbol is e−.[1] The electron is thought to be stable on theoretical grounds; the lowest known experimental upper bound for its mean lifetime is 4.6×1026 years, with a 90% confidence interval (see Particle decay).
According to quantum mechanics, electrons can be represented by wavefunctions, from which a calculated probabilistic electron density can be determined. The orbital of each electron in an atom can be described by a wavefunction. Based on the Heisenberg uncertainty principle the exact momentum and position of the actual electron cannot be simultaneously determined. This is a limitation which, in this instance, simply states that the more accurately we know a particle's position, the less accurately we can know its momentum, and vice versa.
The electron has spin½ and is a fermion (it follows Fermi-Dirac statistics). In addition to its intrinsic angular momentum, an electron has an intrinsic magnetic moment along its spin axis.
Electrons in an atom are bound to that atom, while electrons moving freely in vacuum, space or certain media are free electrons that can be focused into an electron beam. When free electrons move, there is a net flow of charge, and this flow is called an electric current. The drift velocity of electrons in metal wires is on the order of millimetres per second. However, the speed at which a current at one point in a wire causes a current in other parts of the wire, the velocity of propagation, is typically 75% of light speed.
In some superconductors, pairs of electrons move as Cooper pairs in which their motion is coupled to nearby matter via lattice vibrations called phonons. The distance of separation between Cooper pairs is roughly 100 nm.
A body has an electric charge when that body has more or fewer electrons than are required to balance the positive charge of the nuclei. When there is an excess of electrons, the object is said to be negatively charged. When there are fewer electrons than protons, the object is said to be positively charged. When the number of electrons and the number of protons are equal, their charges cancel each other and the object is said to be electrically neutral. A macroscopic body can develop an electric charge through rubbing, by the phenomenon of triboelectricity.
When electrons and positrons collide, they annihilate each other and produce pairs of high-energy photons or other particles. On the other hand, high-energy photons may transform into an electron and a positron by a process called pair production, but only in the presence of a nearby charged particle, such as a nucleus.
The electron is currently described as a fundamental or elementary particle. It has no known substructure. Hence, for convenience, it is usually defined or assumed to be a point-like mathematical point charge, with no spatial extension. However, when a test particle is forced to approach an electron, we measure changes in its properties (charge and mass). This effect is common to all elementary particles. Current theory suggests that this effect is due to the influence of vacuum fluctuations in its local space, so that the properties measured from a significant distance are considered to be the sum of the bare properties and the vacuum effects (see renormalization).
The "classical electron radius" is 2.8179 × 10−15 m. This is the radius that is inferred from the electron's electric charge, by using the classical theory of electrodynamics alone, ignoring quantum mechanics. (In modern physics, the electron is believed to be a point particle, thus its actual radius is zero.) Classical electrodynamics (Maxwells electrodynamics) is the older concept that is widely used for practical applications of electricity, electrical engineering, semiconductor physics, and electromagnetics. Quantum electrodynamics, on the other hand, is useful for applications involving modern particle physics and some aspects of optical, laser and quantum physics.
Based on current theory, the speed of an electron can approach, but never reach, c (the speed of light in a vacuum). This limitation is attributed to Einstein's theory of special relativity which defines the speed of light as a constant within all inertial frames. However, when relativistic electrons are injected into a dielectric medium such as water, where the local speed of light is significantly less than c, the electrons (temporarily) travel faster than light in the medium. As they interact with the medium, they generate a faint bluish light called Cherenkov radiation.
The effects of special relativity are based on a quantity known as γ or the Lorentz factor γ is a function of v, the coordinate velocity of the particle. It is defined as:
The kinetic energy necessary to accelerate an electron is:
For example, the Stanford linear accelerator can accelerate an electron to roughly 51 GeV [1]. This gives a gamma of 100,000, since the mass of an electron is 0.51 MeV/c² (the relativistic momentum of this electron is 100,000 times the classical momentum of an electron at the same speed). Solving the equation above for the speed of the electron (and using an approximation for large γ) gives:
The de Broglie wavelength of a particle is λ=h/p where h is Planck's constant and p is momentum. At low (e.g photoelectron) energies this determines the size of atoms, and at high (e.g. electron microscope) energies this makes the Bragg angles for electron diffraction (co-discovered by J. J. Thomson's son G. P. Thomson) well under one degree. Since momentum is mass times proper-velocity w=γv, we have
For the 51 GeV electron above, proper-velocity is approximately γc, making the wavelength of those electrons small enough to explore structures well below the size of an atomic nucleus.
Quite simple really.....

Earthhorse

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

There are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 605 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe (and the same number of electrons.)

Which is it? 15? 747? 724? Make up your mind.

carchaeologist wrote: »

Layman's terms.

No need to dumb it down so much.

-Freebird-

WHAT is going on in here?

Capt'n Midnight

Earthhorse wrote: »

Which is it? 15? 747? 724? Make up your mind.



No need to dumb it down so much.

sorry my bad
it's either 15 electrons or
15,747,724,136,275,002,577,605,653,961,181,555,468,044,717,914,527,116,709,366,231,425,076,185,631,031,296.000 electrons

can't remember which though

Earthhorse

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

sorry my bad
it's either 15 electrons or
15,747,724,136,275,002,577,605,653,961,181,555,468,044,717,914,527,116,709,366,231,425,076,185,631,031,296.000 electrons

Well, look, if we pretend it's the first one Old Man Newton won't know any better and we can clock off early.

KnifeWRENCH

-Freebird- wrote: »

This is the most pointless thread I've ever come across...

You've obviously not been in TCN very long!

Matt Holck

carchaeologist wrote: »

In some superconductors, pairs of electrons move as Cooper pairs in which their motion is coupled to nearby matter via lattice vibrations called phonons. The distance of separation between Cooper pairs is roughly 100 nm.

That's quit a distance as silicon atoms are about .3 nm apart in a lactice


I had no idea the pairs rode on lattice vibration

Capt'n Midnight

Earthhorse wrote: »

Well, look, if we pretend it's the first one Old Man Newton won't know any better and we can clock off early.

That's a plan and it means we can count the electrons faster,

then again wasn't there a theory that there was only one electron and it does a lot of overtime.

Earthhorse

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

then again wasn't there a theory that there was only one electron and it does a lot of overtime.

Heck, as long as he's doin' the overtime and not us, I don't much care.

Now pass me that abacus.

carchaeologist

Look, if all the boardsies chip in and take it in shifts to count em up, im sure we'll get through the universe quickly enough??How hard can it be??

carchaeologist

Heres a handy way to help people work out how many protons, electrons and neutrons are in an atom of krypton, carbon, oxygen, neon, silver, gold, etc...?
To find the number of protons, electrons and neutrons in an atom, just follow these easy steps:
Step 1 - Gather Information
The first thing you will need to do is find some information about your element. Go to the Periodic Table of Elements and click on your element. If it makes things easier, you can select your element from an alphabetical listing.
Use the Table of Elements to find your element's atomic number and atomic weight. The atomic number is the number located in the upper left corner and the atomic weight is the number located on the bottom, as in this example for krypton:

Step 2 - The Number of Protons is...
The atomic number is the number of protons in an atom of an element. In our example, krypton's atomic number is 36. This tells us that an atom of krypton has 36 protons in its nucleus.
The interesting thing here is that every atom of krypton contains 36 protons. If an atom doesn't have 36 protons, it can't be an atom of krypton. Adding or removing protons from the nucleus of an atom creates a different element. For example, removing one proton from an atom of krypton creates an atom of bromine.
Step 3 - The Number of Electrons is...
By definition, atoms have no overall electrical charge. That means that there must be a balance between the positively charged protons and the negatively charged electrons. Atoms must have equal numbers of protons and electrons. In our example, an atom of krypton must contain 36 electrons since it contains 36 protons.
Electrons are arranged around atoms in a special way. If you need to know how the electrons are arranged around an atom, take a look at the 'How do I read an electron configuration table?' page.
An atom can gain or lose electrons, becoming what is known as an ion. An ion is nothing more than an electrically charged atom. Adding or removing electrons from an atom does not change which element it is, just its net charge.
For example, removing an electron from an atom of krypton forms a krypton ion, which is usually written as Kr+. The plus sign means that this is a positively charged ion. It is positively charged because a negatively charged electron was removed from the atom. The 35 remaining electrons were outnumbered by the 36 positively charged protons, resulting in a charge of +1.
Step 4 - The Number of Neutrons is...
The atomic weight is basically a measurement of the total number of particles in an atom's nucleus. In reality, it isn't that clean cut. The atomic weight is actually a weighted average of all of the naturally occurring isotopes of an element relative to the mass of carbon-12. Didn't understand that? Doesn't matter. All you really need to find is something called the mass number. Unfortunately, the mass number isn't listed on the Table of Elements. Happily, to find the mass number, all you need to do is round the atomic weight to the nearest whole number. In our example, krypton's mass number is 84 since its atomic weight, 83.80, rounds up to 84.
The mass number is a count of the number of particles in an atom's nucleus. Remember that the nucleus is made up of protons and neutrons. So, if we want, we can write:
Mass Number = (Number of Protons) + (Number of Neutrons)
For krypton, this equation becomes:
84 = (Number of Protons) + (Number of Neutrons)
If we only knew how many protons krypton has, we could figure out how many neutrons it has. Wait a minute... We do know how many protons krypton has! We did that back in Step 2! The atomic number (36) is the number of protons in krypton. Putting this into the equation, we get:
84 = 36 + (Number of Neutrons)
What number added to 36 makes 84? Hopefully, you said 48. That is the number of neutrons in an atom of krypton.
The interesting thing here is that adding or removing neutrons from an atom does not create a different element. Rather, it creates a heavier or lighter version of that element. These different versions are called isotopes and most elements are actually a mixture of different isotopes.
If you could grab atoms of krypton and count the number of neutrons each one had, you would find that most would have 48, others would have 47, some would have 50, some others would have 46, a few would have 44 and a very few would have 42. You would count different numbers of neutrons because krypton is a mixture of six isotopes.
In Summary...
For any element:
Number of Protons = Atomic Number
Number of Electrons = Number of Protons = Atomic Number
Number of Neutrons = Mass Number - Atomic Number
For krypton:
Number of Protons = Atomic Number = 36
Number of Electrons = Number of Protons = Atomic Number = 36
Number of Neutrons = Mass Number - Atomic Number = 84 - 36 = 48
Does this make it any easier for ye???

Capt'n Midnight

you seem to have over counted the neutrons last time I looked
84 <> 83.80
that's a fifth of a neutron , that's the weight of like 1839/5 electrons = 367.8 ( but you'd call it 368 )
which is 24.52 times the number of electron sin the known universe if you agree with Earthhorse (or 25 in you integer world)

2 stroke

I just found another- oops sorry, I dropped it again.

carchaeologist

I wonder what we could do if we had a flux capacitor........

Hermy

Have any of you actually ever seen an electron? Until such time as someone can honestly say they've seen one I'm reluctant to believe they actually exsist!
Counting electrons...sure ya might as well be counting to a million.:pac:

2 stroke

I wonder what we could do if we had a flux capacitor........

Not much. we'll never make 1.21 jigawatts with 15 electrons. If only I hadn't dropped that other one.

KnifeWRENCH

Electrons aren't mentioned in The Bible.
Therefore they do not exist.

Have fun burning in hell for eternity, you filthy heretics!

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-124216.html some interesting ideas on what those 15 electrons are , but I'm still in the black hole camp. But I love the idea of an electron and prositron pair having a worm hole between them and it woudl be spining too.
But I digress.


Bohr published his model of atomic structure in 1913, introducing the theory of electrons traveling in orbits around the atom's nucleus, the chemical properties of the element being largely determined by the number of electrons in the outer orbits. According to Bohr new level or orbit starts with 2.n square.
For First level: 2.1.1 =2 electrons
For Second level 2.2.2= 8 electrons
For Third level 2.3.3 =18 electrons
We see similar pattern in Bible too.
First level = 2 people (Adam and Eve)
Second level = 8 people (Noah, his wife, three sons and three daughter-in- laws)
Third level = 18 people (Jacob, his 4 wives, 12 sons and 1daughter)

Flames are just what happens when electrons get excited you know , cant have flames without electrons.

Matt Holck

there can be only one electron

Earthhorse

Matt Holck wrote: »

there can be only one electron

Actually, that's only partially true. There can only be one general electron but we can have as many local electrons as we like.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Flames are just what happens when electrons get excited you know , cant have flames without electrons.

Yeah! Love that Bruce Springsteen number.

carchaeologist

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But I love the idea of an electron and prositron pair having a worm hole between them

Hmm...electron porn??:D

KnifeWRENCH

Ever wondered what kind of sub-atomic particle you are?
Now you can find out:

http://www.quizilla.com/quizzes/1096282/what-kind-of-subatomic-particle-are-you

I'm an anti-proton!!

Anti-Proton -- You are generally a homebody like the proton, but you are very disagreeable being anti-matter and all. You annihilate everything that you come into contact with. If there's not many people arround, you like to hang out with positrons.

Hermy

The existence of electricity proves that sub-atomic particles are just stuff and nonsense.

Capt'n Midnight

But the electrons flow the wrong way they go against the current.

Capt'n Midnight

Electron -- You are full of energy and frentic movement. Although you have a philosophicaly "negative" outlook, people would hardly be able to tell it by looking at you. You get along well with protons and those who are positive."

There's one

---

>


And on with the elements,

LADIES and GENTLEMEN

MAy I HAVe YOUR ATTen-Ti-on

MR TOOOOOOOMMMMMM LEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHRERRRRRRRRR

kerash

Hmmm, i can jus about count, all them numbers scare me:eek: I do like quizzes tho;

Neutron -- You don't take sides, you just sort of hang out and blend into the crowd. If someone lets you loose though, you can cause some serious damage. If you are around too many other neutrons you get bored and start to decay..

Matt Holck

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But the electrons flow the wrong way they go against the current.

and holes flow with the current

Matt Holck wrote: »

The migration of holes is also depicted in the cartoon shown in Figure 3.

Here, the chairs represent one-electron bonds,
and the students represent the additional electrons
that "migrate" to complete unsatisfied one-electron bonds.

As the electrons shift to the right,
the hole shifts to the left.

http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~chem152/lecture/Reading/conduct.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055164392&page=3

Capt'n Midnight

at least with electrons you have a probablilty of knowing it's somewhere.

But what's the pobability that a hole is somewhere in the 99.99999% of empty space that comprises matter and how would you find one ??


nothing is faster than photons.
electrons are faster than the nothingness that are holes
so electrons can travel faster than light !

Hermy

It's all about the second law of therrmo-dynamics apparently.
I say vote no!

Capt'n Midnight

Hermy wrote: »

It's all about the second law of therrmo-dynamics apparently.
I say vote no!

A fair point, why should we have to put up with the second law, we never voted upon it. I say its unconstitutional !

Hermy

I've just checked and there are no electrons in Ireland so there!

Matt Holck

how did I get here?

Hermy

Matt Holck wrote: »

how did I get here?

Have you been messing with the entropy settings again?

Matt Holck

tomfoolery


The Bell Curves!
The Bell Curves!

Matt Holck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7acuzKu7ag

Hermy

We're sorry, this video is no longer available

That's what happens when you interfere with entropy.

Matt Holck

It annoys yet makes me feel important

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuEC3r7a-o

Hermy

Doris Day, my favourite.