Starting team for NZ and AUS GAMES

Abercrombie Dud

Hey guys just wondrin what people think should be the starting team down under.

Heres my take:

1.Horan
2.Flannery
3.Hayes
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Quinlan
7.Leamy
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.O'Gara
11.Kearney
12.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy (Depends on whether BOD goes or not)
13.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy
14.Horgan
15.Murphy

Any thoughts?:cool:

barnesd

BOD is going, and I'd rather just about anyone in the squad played 7 ahead of Leamy.

Podge_irl

Leamy has played 7 before for Ireland, but I wouldn't put him there except in an emergency. Wallace or Jennings would be streets ahead of him for 7. I'd suggest 15. Kearney 11. Bowe is a much better combination then what you have as well (though I would happily see Murphy never wear green again).

jprender

Abercrombie Dud wrote: »

Hey guys just wondrin what people think should be the starting team down under.

Heres my take:

1.Horan
2.Flannery
3.Hayes
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Quinlan
7.Leamy
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.O'Gara
11.Kearney
12.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy (Depends on whether BOD goes or not)
13.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy
14.Horgan
15.Murphy

Any thoughts?:cool:

I think you have nailed this on the head.

Is Wallace going ? If he is, he is in at 7 and Leamy is benching it

barnesd

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leamy has played 7 before for Ireland, but I wouldn't put him there except in an emergency. Wallace or Jennings would be streets ahead of him for 7. I'd suggest 15. Kearney 11. Bowe is a much better combination then what you have as well (though I would happily see Murphy never wear green again).

I know he has, and he was absolutely awful at it. Same again in the RDS this year. He can't play 7 and if he does the backrow will be completely off balance.

Beanmachine

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leamy has played 7 before for Ireland, but I wouldn't put him there except in an emergency. Wallace or Jennings would be streets ahead of him for 7. I'd suggest 15. Kearney 11. Bowe is a much better combination then what you have as well

Have to agree with this. I do think and hope BOD will play. Duffy isn't a centre and it is asking alot of him to come into centre against the All Blacks and Australia.Nonu is likely to start against Ireland and would probably target Fitzgerald at every opportunity so BOD's presence will be important.

louthandproud

Heres my take:

1.Horan
2.Flannery
3.Hayes
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Quinlan
7.Leamy
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.O'Gara
11.Bowe
12.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy (Depends on whether BOD goes or not)
13.Fitzgearld/O'Driscoll/Duffy
14.Horgan
15.Kearney


Sorry Murph! I'm still a little worried about Bowe's pace too but otherwise a class act, the best we have in that position right now I think.

4 into three in the back row doesn't go either. I guess all 4 should be used over the 80 minutes. But I would start it as above. (Wallace being the 4th, assuming he is travelling??).

Colm_OReilly

So are we going over there to win or blood new players? (If you had to pick an either/or)

barnesd

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

So are we going over there to win or blood new players? (If you had to pick an either/or)

There's not that many players in the squad to blood. Jennings deserves a start in a full strength side imo and Buckley possibly a start against Aus (basically because he has to take over from Hayes) but that's about it. Fitzgerald looks like he'll be at centre out of necessity as much as anything so I guess you could count him too.

louthandproud

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

So are we going over there to win or blood new players? (If you had to pick an either/or)

IMHO, A little of both, a big ask to beat either team considering the history, however to go with an inexperienced team could mean a hiding, not a good way to start off or blood new players. Personally I'd prefer to get back to winning ways and solid performances while building slowly for the future (2011).

crisco10

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

So are we going over there to win or blood new players? (If you had to pick an either/or)

i really think its hard to pick either/or. If a whole rake of youngsters are blooded, there is a chance they will get hockeyed and learn very little from it. Similarly, if we just pick our 6n team we will learn nothing as well.

So i think the only option is a happy medium if u know what I mean. For example, as mentioned previously, I think its important that if Luke starts centre, BOD starts beside him to help him thru..(ie a mix of new and old).

There are some areas where more experimentation could be done (out-half?) but then otheres where it would be informative to play the current players (back row in order to figure out the 3 from the 4).

I don't see Leamy as a 7 at all, unless we are playin Argentina or something. Too slow around the park. He is a savage 6 or 8 but a very mediocre 7 IMHO.

ON another note, did anybody hear how that Prop who went off early on Tues is getting on? i cant remember his name for the life of me, plays for Harlequins i think...

zAbbo

Team picks itself imo

1.Horan
2.Flannery
3.Hayes
4.O'Connell
5.O'Callaghan
6.Quinlan
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.O'Gara
11.Bowe
12.BOD
13.Fitzgerald
14.Horgan
15.Kearney

Don't worry about blooding players, we can actually beat NZ & Aus in their backyard.

The only snag is that Bradley might do something stupid like drop Bowe, and play Kearney on the wing with Girv at full back, or mess around with the backrow or centre partnerships.

We don't need steady hands, and to lose by less than 15! we can actually win these games.

Size=everything

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Connoll
5. O'Callaghan (though it should be Casey)
6. Quinlan
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Horgan
15. Kearney


To OP on current form I honestly don't know how anyone could leave out Bowe!

crisco10

zAbbo wrote: »

Team picks itself imo

Don't worry about blooding players, we can actually beat NZ & Aus in their backyard.

The only snag is that Bradley might do something stupid like drop Bowe, and play Kearney on the wing with Girv at full back, or mess around with the backrow or centre partnerships.

We don't need steady hands, and to lose by less than 15! we can actually win these games.

I think you right but is that not sort of the attitude that left us with very few players who could come in with experience in the last World Cup?
not trying to start a bitch fight here but I think the conservative attitude of playing the same few players does work against us in the long run.
Completely agree with u on the possible Girv situatuion BTW!

Size=everything

The only snag is that Bradley might do something stupid like drop Bowe, and play Kearney on the wing with Girv at full back, or mess around with the backrow or centre partnerships.

Judging Bradley from the Barbarians game where he took off Fitz early, moved Kearney to centre, didn't bring on Sexton until the 80th minute etc. I wouldn't put it past him

zAbbo

crisco10 wrote: »

I think you right but is that not sort of the attitude that left us with very few players who could come in with experience in the last World Cup?
not trying to start a bitch fight here but I think the conservative attitude of playing the same few players does work against us in the long run.
Completely agree with u on the possible Girv situatuion BTW!

We need to win these games now, in order to notch up ranking points for the next RWC seedings.

We have the capability to beat an unknown, inexperienced and out of form NZ team.

Remember NZ & Aus players will have to change back to the original laws having played the new ELV's all season, they are also a little lighter due to the speed increase of playing those games, everything points towards our first win against NZ!

New players need to be blooded one at a time in a settled team, not throwing in combinations who will never play with each other for Ireland again.

Players which have been integrated (not by any great forsight) over the last year are Reddan / Fitz / Kearney / Bowe / Heaslip.

I think Buckley should start against Aus with Flannery at hooker, and a shakeup to the back row, with Leamy at 6, and Jennings at 7.

marco_polo

zAbbo wrote: »

We need to win these games now, in order to notch up ranking points for the next RWC seedings.

We have the capability to beat an unknown, inexperienced and out of form NZ team.

Remember NZ & Aus players will have to change back to the original laws having played the new ELV's all season, they are also a little lighter due to the speed increase of playing those games, everything points towards our first win against NZ!

New players need to be blooded one at a time in a settled team, not throwing in combinations who will never play with each other for Ireland again.

Players which have been integrated (not by any great forsight) over the last year are Reddan / Fitz / Kearney / Bowe / Heaslip.

I think Buckley should start against Aus with Flannery at hooker, and a shakeup to the back row, with Leamy at 6, and Jennings at 7.

Funny I was just going to post the exact same thing.

I would like to see something like the following:

VS New Zealand

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5.O'Connoll
6. Quinlan
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Kearney
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Murphy

VS Australia

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan (Would have given one of Cullen or Casey a run here)
5. O'Connoll
6. leamy
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

Abercrombie Dud

marco_polo wrote: »

Funny I was just going to post the exact same thing.

I would like to see something like the following:

VS New Zealand

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan
5.O'Connoll
6. Quinlan
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Kearney
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Bowe
15. Murphy

VS Australia

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Buckley
4. O'Callaghan (Would have given one of Cullen or Casey a run here)
5. O'Connoll
6. leamy
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe
12. BOD
13. Fitzgerald
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

great teams.

but sorry guys bowe is not fast enough:(

marco_polo

Abercrombie Dud wrote: »

great teams.

but sorry guys bowe is not fast enough:(

Fair enough he is not an out and out speedster but he runs some good lines and has a nice step. He has really impressed me whenever he has played in a green jersey since his return. I wouldn't think he has any less pace than Horgan or Murphy. The only other back three combinations I can think with that squad of all involve Gavin Duffy or paddy Wallace going to 12 and moving luke .

Supposedly the fella that caught him during the BaBas games is an absolute flyer as well.

He is not as fast as the 'volcano' either but I know who I would rather have in my team .

zAbbo

You mean the Irish winger of the season, top Ulster try scorer with 8, played the most minutes for Ulster and in different positions - wing/fb/centre suddenly isn't fast enough becase George Hook said so, and that he was caught by the fastest player in NZ history over 10 metres?

Hold on here guys, Shane Horgan isn't exactly fast, Bowe has average acceleration, but makes up for that with good flat out speed and a decent step.

If he was so slow, why were the Ospreys mad to sign him up!

Not picking the most inform Irish winger, because you think he is slow is a little silly, we aren't spoiled for choice on the wings...

Ulstermell0

jprender wrote: »

I think you have nailed this on the head.

Is Wallace going ? If he is, he is in at 7 and Leamy is benching it

http://www.irishrugby.ie/6855_12161.php squad list but its from 9th may. players with a star are not going but were down for baa baa match

Trimble isnt going now due to injury, not sure what other changes there may be.

mrincredible

Lads, are these matches gonna be televised?
MI

bleg

horan
fla
hayes
o connell
o callaghan
quinlan
wallace
heaslip
reddan
o gara
dowling
o driscoll
fitzgerald
horgan
kearney

bench: best buckley o driscoll leamy stringer wallace murphy

marco_polo

mrincredible wrote: »

Lads, are these matches gonna be televised?
MI

Probably be on Sky Sports unfortunately, RTE didn't mention any coverage on tuesday and they have rarely if ever televised any matches from tours down under. Not sure is it is due to lack of money or that they can't be bothered.

bleg: I like Dowling as a player, but I don't think he is ahead of Bowe currently.

Crash

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Connell
O'Callaghan
Quinlan
Jennings
Heaslip
Reddan
O'Gara
Bowe
Fitzgerald
BOD
Horgan
Kearney

definitely would be my choice for the team.

Size=everything

zAbbo wrote: »

You mean the Irish winger of the season, top Ulster try scorer with 8, played the most minutes for Ulster and in different positions - wing/fb/centre suddenly isn't fast enough becase George Hook said so, and that he was caught by the fastest player in NZ history over 10 metres?

Hold on here guys, Shane Horgan isn't exactly fast, Bowe has average acceleration, but makes up for that with good flat out speed and a decent step.

If he was so slow, why were the Ospreys mad to sign him up!

Not picking the most inform Irish winger, because you think he is slow is a little silly, we aren't spoiled for choice on the wings...

well put.

Podge_irl

barnesd wrote: »

I know he has, and he was absolutely awful at it. Same again in the RDS this year. He can't play 7 and if he does the backrow will be completely off balance.

Was he playing 7 in the RDS? He was far too busy trying to start fights to play any position properly in that game anyway.

bleg wrote:

dowling
o driscoll
fitzgerald
horgan
kearney

What has Dowling done to suggest he deserves a place above Bowe?

but sorry guys bowe is not fast enough

He's faster then both Kearney and Murphy.

Stev_o

Sorry but why are people including Jennings in starting line ups? Last year i would have agreed as he was the best open side in the GP but this year is form has been indifferent he had a less then average game against the Baa Baa's and missed some important tackles. Until he regains form which i hope he does i dont see why he should be starting. That said the only two people who could play 7 are O'Conor but he's not on the tour and Quinlan yes thats right Quinlan but he wont be picked as he has very little pace which is a high priority for a 7 but then way he's been playing this year you'd swear he was a 7.

Beanmachine

Personally i don't think we have a good a chance as a lot of people seem to be making out here on the tour down under.Australia are likley to blood new players ie.Kurtley Beale and Horne from the Warathas so we could have a good chance against them but the New Zealand team is still very strong.Obviously they are missing the likes of Mcallister and Mauger in the centre and Jack and Heymans in the pack but the propoesd team still posses enough quality to beat Ireland i think

Woodcock
Mealamu
Afoa/sommerville
Williams
Brad Thorne
McCaw
Soilao
Read/Kaino
Leonard
Carter
Nonu
Muliaina
Sitevini
Tuitavake
Mc Donald.

Not the actual team to play Ireland just one picked out.

dub_skav

Beanmachine wrote: »

Personally i don't think we have a good a chance as a lot of people seem to be making out here on the tour down under.Australia are likley to blood new players ie.Kurtley Beale and Horne from the Warathas so we could have a good chance against them but the New Zealand team is still very strong.Obviously they are missing the likes of Mcallister and Mauger in the centre and Jack and Heymans in the pack but the propoesd team still posses enough quality to beat Ireland i think

Woodcock
Mealamu
Afoa/sommerville
Williams
Brad Thorne
McCaw
Soilao
Read/Kaino
Leonard
Carter
Nonu
Muliaina
Sitevini
Tuitavake
Mc Donald.

Not the actual team to play Ireland just one picked out.

Jesus is Brad Thorne back in the mix? He's a monster

Stev_o

dub_skav wrote: »

Jesus is Brad Thorne back in the mix? He's a monster

A different Thorne Brad is retired now i think

zAbbo

Did you mean Reuben Thorne, ex captain who was in the RWC squad.

Brad Thorn is the rugby league/union flirter who seems to regularly switch between the two.

Sangre

jennings hasn't been at 100% form recently but I'm reluctant to put wallace in at 7. I just think he disappears for far too long in too many games. In the HC Final I noticed him for the first time at around 60 minutes, this has happened in numerous munster/irish matches. of course when he does show up its usually very impressive.

i just suspect jennings (or gleeson of yesteryear) would help with quicker ruck ball giving the backs more space and time.

Helpmemaths

Ma'a Nonu against fitzgerald will be a massacre. Did anyone else notice that when ireland were defending against the barbarians Shane horgan came infield a lot and exchanged with Fitzgerald out on the wing?

Beanmachine

Yeah this happens to a alot of teams and is quite reqular really.Out halfs generally get targeted alot from this type of thing i actually saw this last week when Epi Taione usually a centre or wing was covering back row and every chance had he ran straight down Kurtley Beale's channel,bit of a miss match in terms of size with Taione being 6'4 and 19stone and beale being 6'0 and 14stone.Same thing happened Tuquiri came off his wing and stood at ten to combat this. Ive seen it over the years aswell with teams targeting Hodgson(alot),Wilkinson, and O'Gara.

Yeah its Brad thorne in the squad he's beeen playing well for the crusaders recently.

Sangre

Its pretty common. When you're defending a set piece put your big boys in the centre to stop crash balls and put you're quicker guys out wide to stop the flyers. Cipriani nearly always moves to outside centre/fullback when defending for Wasps. Its not stating he is a weak defender but that there are better defenders.

remus808

1. Horan
2. Jackman
3. Hayes
4. O'Callaghan (would prefer Cullen)
5. O'Connell
6. Quinlan
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. O'Gara
11. Bowe
12. O'Driscoll
13. Fitzgerald
14. Horgan
15. Kearney

16. Flannery
17. Buckley
18. O'Driscoll
19. Leamy
20. O'Leary (is he even in the squad? :O)
21. Sexton
22. Murphy

Really like the look of that team, outstanding from 1-15.. backline especially looks like it could do real damage, and bench has alot of impact potential.

remus808

Helpmemaths wrote: »

Ma'a Nonu against fitzgerald will be a massacre. Did anyone else notice that when ireland were defending against the barbarians Shane horgan came infield a lot and exchanged with Fitzgerald out on the wing?

In fairness to young luke, I know he's not the biggest just yet, but he has been very solid in defence of late. Did you see his hit on Larkham the other night? Superb. But yeah I would share your anxieties about someone the size of Nonu just running right over him..

Crash

His defence is much, MUCH better in the centre than on the wing, to be honest. He was a liability defensively for Leinster on the wing a couple of times, but looks happier in the middle.

remus808

crash_000 wrote: »

His defence is much, MUCH better in the centre than on the wing, to be honest. He was a liability defensively for Leinster on the wing a couple of times, but looks happier in the middle.

In fairness that was a very poor Barbarians side, so its difficult to judge too.. It's not like he had powerfull backrows and massive centres running down his channel... that said, I hope your right, because i'l be very disappointed if he isn't developed as a 13 to be honest.. playing him on the wing is a waste of his talents IMO, and think we will run riot in the next few years if played outside BOD, potentially a better centre combo then Darcy and BOD ever was.. BODs physicality, vision, distribution and ability to create space combined with Fitz pace, step and broken field running capabilities could see defences being carved up left,right and centre if it ever gets going

old boy

jackmans inability to hit the jumpers, is a major prop

finlma

marco_polo wrote: »

bleg: I like Dowling as a player, but I don't think he is ahead of Bowe currently.

They are different styles of players. Bowe is an awful tackler but a decent finisher. If you watch Dowling he has an incredibly safe pair of hands and plays like an extra flanker. In a game against NZ and Oz I think he would be far more effective than Bowe who has the potential to let in soft tries. Dowling is much more solid in defence and a very hard man to take the ball from. He is better suited to the Oz/Nz games as we won't play it to expansive in these games.

Kearney should be blooded at full back as he is definitely our future in that position. Murphy and Dempsey have had their day.

Podge_irl

finlma wrote: »

Bowe is an awful tackler but a decent finisher.

I didn't think Bowe's defence was that bad

They are different types of players, yes, but Bowe is the better wing. While I wouldn't overly worry about Dowling on the wing where he forced to play there, I would not be happy with him being picked over Bowe. It shows the complete wrong intent.

finlma

Podge_irl wrote: »

It shows the complete wrong intent.

We can't throw the ball around against NZ/Oz. We'll be murdered out there. Dowling will support the break-down much better than Bowe. He may not make the line-breaks but I don't see any of our wingers being given too many opportunities to do so. If we were playing the home nations I'd go for Bowe but on this tour I'd opt for Dowling.

Munster showed how to effectively win games and Dowling played a huge part this season. Its not all about skinning wingers - there's much more involved in a game of rugby.

Crash

I disagree, I think we're going to have to move the ball around outside of the pack a lot more if we want to win against Oz and NZ - its going to take a comprehensive performance from the packs and the backline if we want to get there at all. Pack alone won't do it.

Chucky the tree

I'm amazed people give us a chance of winning.

remus808

old boy wrote: »

jackmans inability to hit the jumpers, is a major prop

Its a myth. The leinster lineout has been absolutely flawless this year, it just so happened that the Irish lineout was muck when Jackman got his chance. I think he will be fine once we've rebuilt a solid lineout. Definitely the best hooker in Ireland this season, leinster player of the year ffs, don't know how people can put him behind fla and best this season

Kearney should be blooded at full back as he is definitely our future in that position.

Kearney is blooded. I think most consider him our 1st choice fullback now :pac:

remus808

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm amazed people give us a chance of winning.

That's very negative of you.. Ok yes an away win against one of the big SH nations seems impossible, but if you look at the facts is probably our best shot in a long time. They have been playing ELVs all year, lost alot of players, and will be seriously underrating us post-WC.. plus we have two of the best form clubs in europe to draw players from, having won a league/cup double.. and the players will be anxious to really put the last 18 months international form behind them, the munster boys especially... i think it'l be closer than most think, though i dont expect a win really

Croker in november is another story though........

Sangre

finlma wrote: »

They are different styles of players. Bowe is an awful tackler but a decent finisher. If you watch Dowling he has an incredibly safe pair of hands and plays like an extra flanker. In a game against NZ and Oz I think he would be far more effective than Bowe who has the potential to let in soft tries. Dowling is much more solid in defence and a very hard man to take the ball from. He is better suited to the Oz/Nz games as we won't play it to expansive in these games.

Kearney should be blooded at full back as he is definitely our future in that position. Murphy and Dempsey have had their day.

You're effectively conceding defeat already and merely trying to limit to the losing margin by playing Dowling.

finlma

Sangre wrote: »

You're effectively conceding defeat already and merely trying to limit to the losing margin by playing Dowling.

Not at all. Dowling has proved himself against some of the best players in the world at a very competitive level in the HC. Rugby is as much about defence as attack and I think Dowling will be much better suited to the game. Bowe will be lost out there cause there will be a lot of hard yards and tough tackling to be made - Dowling is much better at this than Bowe.

Size=everything

karmabass wrote: »

Kearney is blooded. I think most consider him our 1st choice fullback now :pac:

I hope so anyway.